Current state of roller bearing 1" threadless

[Andrew Cohen]

I get some shimmy at certain speeds with my 650b bike.  It has a 1" threadless headtube/steerer setup.  It is currently fitted with a Cane Creek 110 headset, and I thought I'd try a roller bearing headset based on BQ articles and internet suggestions.  Looking around, I have only found 2 available, the Miche Primato and a model from Token.  Is either preferred, or is there another option that is best quality/function.  I am likely to get the Token as I would prefer a black headset like the cane creek and I have only seen the miche in silver.

Thanks in advance for the knowledge!

[Dave Feldman]

I keep my nose to the ground for a few roller bearing headsets, threaded or threadless, to sell--and the only ones in current production are relative cheapos made by the Taiwanese company Token.  No US wholesaler carries them.  Soma sells a threaded-only, roller bottom/ball top Tange headset.  Miche, Stronglight, Ritchey, FSA--all are out of the roller bearing business.  Damn shame and hope it changes--they're good for more than moderating shimmy on low-trail bikes.

[Paul Sherman]

I have the 1 1/8" version of the Token on a bike that was prone to shimmy. It's the only roller bearing headset I've handled, but I seem to remember the bearings looking distinctly narrower than what I've seen in pictures of Tange/Stronglight bearings. Not sure what kind of impact that might have on its longevity or dampening abilities, but it has worked very well for me so far.

Paul

[Mark Bulgier]

Get a 1" threaded roller bearing headset, used/ebay if necessary.  Find someone with a lathe who can bore it out for you.  It's around a 5 minute job, 10 max.  Bring your fork to the machinist for an accurate measurement, they're never exactly 1.000".  You want the headset to be a tight slip fit, no play.  Even a little interference would be preferable to play -- as in, you need to whack it a little with a rubber mallet to get it to slide down on the steerer.  Make sure the steerer is free of dings or roughness -- "shoeshine" it with some fine sandpaper, 400 grit say.  And then clean and grease the steerer before installation.

I have done this, it works perfectly.  Once on an XC-race MTB (rigid fork, early 80s) and once on a road tandem that got fairly high mileage with a heavy team. Well, I hasten to add (before getting whacked), Laurie is light, I am the heavy one.  I took it off the tandem some years later, replaced with a Chris King, because I didn't want the extra friction on that bike – made it hard to ride no hands.  Riding no hands on a tandem is hard enough with all that yelling coming from the back seat!  ;)

Another option (sorry if it's obvious) is use a roller bearing for the bottom race and then whatever you can get (or what's already installed) for the top race.  I have a feeling most of the extra friction in a roller bearing headset comes from the bottom race anyway.

Mark Bulgier
Seattle

[Nick Payne]

On 25/04/2016 6:40 AM, Mark Bulgier wrote:
> Get a 1" threaded roller bearing headset, used/ebay if necessary.
> Find someone with a lathe who can bore it out for you. It's around a
> 5 minute job, 10 max. Bring your fork to the machinist for an
> accurate measurement, they're never exactly 1.000". You want the
> headset to be a tight slip fit, no play. Even a little interference
> would be preferable to play -- as in, you need to whack it a little
> with a rubber mallet to get it to slide down on the steerer. Make
> sure the steerer is free of dings or roughness -- "shoeshine" it with
> some fine sandpaper, 400 grit say. And then clean and grease the
> steerer before installation.

An adjustable seat tube reamer that adjusts to a size small enough to
fit through the threaded cup will do the job as well. I've used mine a
couple of times to convert a 1" threaded headset to threadless. And as
you say, the job only takes 5-10 minutes.

Nick

[somervillebikes]

Miche may be out of the roller bearing headset business, but it's still easy to find stock of them on the 'bay and elsewhere, new, cheap.  I have them on two different 650B bikes.  One of the bikes, which used to have a Cane Creek cartridge unit, had a really severe shimmy. The Miche resolved about 90% of it. It's now just a very slight shimmy under the worst of circumstances. I'm sold on the Miche, I keep a couple of new units as backups.  They look cheap-- the machining and anodizing are fairly crude, and they're a little finicky to adjust right, but they work well.  

Anton

velolumino.com

[Fred Blasdel]

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Dave Feldman <feldm...@gmail.com> wrote:

I keep my nose to the ground for a few roller bearing headsets, threaded or threadless, to sell--and the only ones in current production are relative cheapos made by the Taiwanese company Token.  No US wholesaler carries them. 

The Token models are much higher quality than the Miche or Tange models were

They're imported by Tufo North America, who are usually cheaper than the ebay sellers

[Jan Heine]

The Token headsets use smaller needles than the old Stronglights and Miches. Under hard braking, the rollers come out of their retainers and then float around loosely. You get a binding headset as a result.

Maybe oversized steerers don't flex as much, and admittedly, I do tend to brake very hard, but still - that is a design flaw that had me junk the Token headset on my Mule in the middle of a Japan trip, preferring to mess with exposed balls and grease on a cheap Tange headset rather than having a binding headset mess up my steering in unpredictable ways.

Jan Heine

Editor

Bicycle Quarterly

www.bikequarterly.com

The Token models are much higher quality than the Miche or Tange models were

They're imported by Tufo North America, who are usually cheaper than the ebay sellers

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[Steve Chan]

   Any idea if the roller bearing cartridge on the Token can be replaced with the ones from Stronglight/Miche?

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[somervillebikes]

I'm having a hard time understanding how this can happen if any spare clearance is taken up by proper pre-loading. In a properly preloaded setup, there should be no room for a needle to float around. I think a more likely scenario is that one or more needles were already out of position when the headset was installed, precluding proper preloading from the get-go.

Anton

[John Hawrylak]

Assuming 1 or more needles were already out of position, would you expect it to be noticeable??   In other words, would a close inspection prior to installation identify the condition???

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[peter weigle]

Jan's Mule is his Rinko bike,,, 

so the forks are in and out of the frame often

.

Assembling the bike in less than ideal conditions, possibly low light etc., 

I'm wondering if this is really the culprit? 

Just wondering?

ptr

[Jan Heine]

The answer is no. In fact, it being a Rinko bike allowed me to inspect the headset frequently. A roller or two missing from the retainer, and floating around elsewhere would have been noticeable. Also, the Token headset's needle bearings are held in place with a circlip, so they don't come apart when you disassemble the bike. That is why I chose this headset, because I didn't want to mess with greasy headsets parts during Rinko, nor having to somehow keep the grease from getting contaminated...

Most of all, the change in behavior of the bike occurred in mid-ride and was quite noticeable. During the first part of the ride, all was fine. The bike steered as it normally would. Then, after breaking very hard a few times during a twisty descent, the bike suddenly didn't handle right. I was running wide on corners. The bike didn't handle intuitively any longer. I couldn't explain it and began to doubt the low-trail geometry of the bike. Perhaps this wasn't a good geometry after all? It was subtle, but very noticeable. Then, when I disassembled the bike for Rinko at the end of the ride, I saw the rollers that were no longer in the retainer.

I reassembled everything carefully, thinking that perhaps it was an issue during the previous assembly, as Peter suggested. It happened again on the next mountain ride. The third time, I had no choice, so I put the needles back again, and it happened again. Then I went to a bike shop and replaced the headset. It never happened again.

When I wrote about this somewhere, perhaps in Bicycle Quarterly, I heard from two others who had similar experiences.

At least with a 1" steerer, the lower headset parts undergo significantly flex and stress when you brake hard. On Stronglight headsets, the steel bearings move backward and start to cut into the aluminum cup. My friend John Bailey actually had a lower headset cup shear off because it was worn through. On mine, I've seen the traces of wear, and I've replaced one lower cup that showed enough wear to be concerned.

On the Token headset, the rollers are so small that a little flex in the system provides enough space for them to move out of their retainer. The flex of the retainer probably is what makes them pop out.

However, if you don't brake hard, even the Token headset may be fine.

Jan Heine

Editor

Bicycle Quarterly

www.bikequarterly.com

[peter weigle]

Jan,

Got it.

Thanks for clarifying this,, 

ptr

 

[David Cummings]

Jan,

What did you replace the Tange headset with or is it still on the mule?

As far as other headsets go, Rivendell's IRD combo headset looks interesting. However, I have a bike with a frightening shimmy at speed when braking, I would think roller bearings top and bottom would be better. I'm tall so it has a fairly tall head tube, does that contribute?

Thanks,
David Cummings

[Jan Heine]

I reinstalled the Chris King headset that I used orginally. I found that when tightened correctly (a tad on the tight side), the bike doesn't shimmy with this headset. It appears that using an OS down tube with a standard-diameter top tube greatly reduced the incidence of shimmy, as we had postulated when we built the bike. 

Unfortunately, many builders in the recent past went the other way, with same-size down and top tubes, which apparently makes the resonant frequencies of the two tubes too similar and thus increases the likelihood of shimmy. (It also messes up the performance of the frame, but that is another issue.)

If you need a needle-bearing headset, it seems that the Miche is your best bet.

Jan Heine

Editor

Bicycle Quarterly

www.bikequarterly.com

-----Original Message-----
>From: David Cummings
>Sent: Apr 26, 2016 9:25 AM
>To: 650b <65...@googlegroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [650B] Re: Current state of roller bearing 1" threadless
>

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[William Lindsay]

When asking Jan's advice, be sure to be very explicit if you are experiencing Shimmy or Judder.  Jan can comment on length regarding both, but they are not the same thing. 

[Jan Heine]

Bill,

Thank you for catching that. Yes, if it happens under braking, it probably isn't shimmy. At least I've never experienced shimmy under braking. If it's judder, then the fix has to start with the brake, unless you want to build a new fork.

Jan Heine

Editor

Bicycle Quarterly

www.bikequarterly.com

-----Original Message-----
From: William Lindsay
Sent: Apr 26, 2016 9:33 AM
To: 650b <65...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [650B] Re: Current state of roller bearing 1" threadless

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[Nick Payne]

On 26/04/2016 9:58 AM, Jan Heine wrote:

[snip]...

At least with a 1" steerer, the lower headset parts undergo significantly flex and stress when you brake hard. On Stronglight headsets, the steel bearings move backward and start to cut into the aluminum cup. My friend John Bailey actually had a lower headset cup shear off because it was worn through. On mine, I've seen the traces of wear, and I've replaced one lower cup that showed enough wear to be concerned.

On the Token headset, the rollers are so small that a little flex in the system provides enough space for them to move out of their retainer. The flex of the retainer probably is what makes them pop out.

Back in the early 1980s I had a touring bike with Galli roller bearing headset. The headset had a much steeper angle on the rollers (and larger diameter rollers) than the later Stronglight models, and didn't suffer the problem you describe above. I gave it a pretty fair thrashing over the time I had the bike, as I used to do a lot of touring over fire trails and pretty rough dirt roads, and it was still working fine when I eventually sold the bike after about ten years of use.

Nick

[Steve Palincsar]

Low light, less than ideal conditions and the hectic pressure of time ("Come on, man, that train is about ready to leave!") can be the short line to a mechanical disaster.

[Jan Heine]

Fortunately, with Rinko, you disassemble with time pressure. You assemble at your leisure.

That said, practice is useful. Plan an extra few minutes the first few times you Rinko your bike.

Also, a Rinko bike should be designed to be durable during disassembly. For example, I replaced the carbon brush inside the headset with a brass one, because the carbon one broke off after a few dozen disassemblies. Any parts that require torque wrenches because they are dimensioned too close to the limit are a bad idea.

Fortunately, the parts of a traditional Rinko bike are pretty forgiving. For less experienced mechanics, it helps that most modern cartridge bearing headsets are pretty forgiving in terms of adjustment. If you ride them a bit loose, you'll notice, but you won't destroy the headset...

To me, that is part of the beauty of Rinko - it doesn't require more money for expensive parts (like couplers), just more thought when designing the bike.

Jan Heine

Editor

Bicycle Quarterly

www.bikequarterly.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Palincsar
Sent: Apr 26, 2016 10:56 AM
To: 65...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [650B] Re: Current state of roller bearing 1" threadless

[Andrew Cohen]

My bike is 1" threadless.  I ordered the Token from a place in the EU as it didn't seem to be available in the US.  Based on Jan's experience, I might get a Miche to have in reserve as well since they aren't that expensive.

Before reading the comment below, I went ahead and tightened the Cane Creek 110 that is on there much past its usual level, to about 5 NM with a torque wrench.  It was silky smooth and very free turning (which I think is the idea for it in normal conditions) as originally adjusted, and at the new torque it is still smooth but much less free turning.  It seems to have helped the shimmy issue significantly, so maybe I'll just leave it as is until the 110 gives up the ghost as it might from the overtightening and then install the Token or Miche.  

[Hoffsta]

I bought a Miche Primato for my Rawland Stag build. Haven't had a single problem with it and I've never felt any shimmy or jutter. I can definitely recommend it.

Sean

Eugene, OR

[David Cummings]

Thank you for the clarification on "judder" and "shimmy" (I feel like I should be doing the boogaloo or Philly or right now).

When I ride no-hands I got a shimmy with 700x28c wheels. It is less with 650x38b wheels, but still there.

I must be experiencing judder when I brake at speed. The only time I experience it is when descending at speed. Of course it's been on mountain passes with steep dropoffs so the experience has been "exciting" to say the least. It happened with old 105 sidepulls and 700c wheels as well as with Cherry centerpulls and 650b wheels.

David Cummings

[William Lindsay]

If it happened with side pull brakes, it is not Judder as Jan defines it.

[Andrew Cohen]

My top tube and down tube are different sizes.  I think my top tube is 28ish and my DT is 31ish.  Both are pretty light gauge, but I don't know the details.  I forgot to mention that the bike has disc brakes, so I'm hoping that less stress is concentrated at the fork crown and the Token will be adequate.  I don't have the technical knowledge to know if that is more than wishful thinking . . .

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 7:32:39 PM UTC-5, Jan Heine wrote:

[Mark Bulgier]

Andrew Cohen wrote:

> the bike has disc brakes, so I'm hoping that less stress is concentrated at the fork crown and the Token will be adequate.

I don't think the headset can tell what kind of brakes you're using.  Other than the negligible force supplied by a centerpull cable, the forces on the headset are identical between rim brakes and disk brakes.

Mark Bulgier
Seattle

[Andrew Squirrel]

Oh wow, I didn't realize Token makes 1" needle bearing headsets.

I love the Token on my 9/8" Elephant and had far more trouble with the needle bearings on my Miche 1" thus far.

Have people had issues with the 1" or 9/8" Token?

- Andrew Squirrel

[Alex Wetmore]

What frame do you have the 8/8" headset on Andrew?  Was it properly faced?  The Miche has always worked well for me, but all of my frames are faced after painting.  I've never seen a Taiwanese frame that was (unless it was done by a shop afterwords).

alex

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From: 65...@googlegroups.com <65...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Andrew Squirrel <asqu...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 12:01:23 PM
To: 650b
Cc: flath...@gmail.com; hei...@earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [650B] Re: Current state of roller bearing 1" threadless

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[Andrew Squirrel]

I have a Threadless Miche 1" on my Rawland Stag. I had one fail on the original fork which was faced by R+E I believe. It might have been an installation preload error on my part. The new replacement Threadless Miche 1" headset paired with a Jeff Lyon fork has been fine so far so it may have been a fluke the first time around.

Speaking of needle bearing failures, my well-used Stronglight Headstrong needle bearing headset also failed from the lower race being worn away and filling the grease with metal slivers.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_squirrel/17785912554

I've only been using the Token for a year now but it seems great so far.

[satanas]

I've personally fitted and used many of the Stronglight, Miche and Primax needle bearing 1" headsets. They all use the same bearings, and are all very durable IME; my oldest one dates to late 1982 and is still going strong.

However, with any needle bearing headset it is crucial that the frame is faced properly, and absolutely essential that the steerer is dead straight; if bent the headset *will* bind. There is very little room for any misalignment - much less than is acceptable for ball bearings - but you get much longer life in exchange for more care during installation.

Later,
Stephen

[Andrew Cohen]

Hi Alex,

It is on a custom bike by Winter bicycles.  Eric does very nice work, so I am assuming that the facing is well done.  For full disclosure, the shimmy issue seems largely to have disappeared by me simply tightening the Cane Creek 110 that was in there (I've only had the bike 5 weeks), so it seems like perhaps my problem was a tempest in a teakettle (wrong cliche?) as it seems likely that the headset settled slightly as I did the initial rides on the bike and after readjustment I am good. 

Whatever, I am now the proud owner of the Token and may get around to installing it on this or a different bike at some point . . .

Andy

[Evan Estern]

I have about 10k miles on a 1" threadless Miche headset (lg Stag w/Lyon fork).  It's worked flawlessly, though I thought it looked a bit flimsy when I first installed it. 

[David Cummings]

Dredging up this thread because I can't find any 27.0 crown race headsets.

No longer available:

• Miche Primato Threaded headset is 26.4 and I can't find any current sellers.
• Token is 26.4 and no longer appears to be available through Tufo.
• Old Stronglights seem to be 26.4 as well.

Currently Available:

• Tifosi also appears to only be 26.4 (I only found one site that even listed the crown race)
  
• Rivbike's Tange/IRD ball/needle bearing combo is only 26.4 as well.
  

So what is a guy to do with a 1979 Trek 710 with a 27.0mm crown race and significant shimmy?  Have the crown race machined down to 26.4?  I could perhaps over-tighten the current Origin8 headset, but I'm not sure if I could do it with sealed bearings.

Now that the snow has hit, I have time until next spring, but it's time to start looking.

David Cummings

Kalispell, MT

[Lee Legrand]

You should see if Jan Heine can do something about this.  Headsets for threaded and threadless and can possibly be done in Tange Seiki.

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[David Cummings]

I should have clarified that I am talking about 1" threaded headsets.

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[Chris Cullum]

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 12:18 PM, David Cummings <flath...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dredging up this thread because I can't find any 27.0 crown race headsets.

No longer available:

• Miche Primato Threaded headset is 26.4 and I can't find any current sellers.
• Token is 26.4 and no longer appears to be available through Tufo.
• Old Stronglights seem to be 26.4 as well.

Currently Available:

• Tifosi also appears to only be 26.4 (I only found one site that even listed the crown race)
  
• Rivbike's Tange/IRD ball/needle bearing combo is only 26.4 as well.
  

So what is a guy to do with a 1979 Trek 710 with a 27.0mm crown race and significant shimmy?  Have the crown race machined down to 26.4?

Yes, I would cut down the crown race to 26.4mm, that's ISO standard. Almost all decent quality 1" headset use ISO not JIS now (that's all headsets not just roller bearing). You need to ream the headtube to 30.2mm as well. Might as well get the headtube faced while you are at it. A good shop should have the tools to do all that. I'm kinda surprised that a 79 Trek 710 has a JIS headset. I've heard of weird combos of ISO cups but 27.0 crown race, maybe it's one of those. My Vintage Treks have all had ISO headsets.
 

 I could perhaps over-tighten the current Origin8 headset, but I'm not sure if I could do it with sealed bearings.

Now that the snow has hit, I have time until next spring, but it's time to start looking.

David Cummings

Kalispell, MT

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[Paul Sherman]

Someone on the iBOB list was selling a JIS Tange roller bearing headset a while back. I doubt he still has it but you can PM me if you'd like and I can pass along his email. Personally I'd also just go to ISO if it's convenient.

Paul
Pasadena, CA

[Mark Bulgier]

If you know someone with a metal lathe, even a little tabletop hobbyist lathe, the crown race of some of those needle headsets is aluminum and would be easy to bore out to 26.9, or whatever the press-fit size should be for a 27.0 fork crown.

I have the crown race milling cutter to take the crown down to ISO, but maybe in your town a lathe is easier to find.  Or maybe you want to keep the fork original, for posterity.  Certain very old and/or rare bikes shouldn't be modified if it's not necessary, because they are part of the historical record.  I don't think your Trek is in that category but opinions will vary on that.

-Mark

[Mark Bulgier]

Sorry, should have added this to my last post: A crown race is much cheaper to mail than a fork, if you have to send out one or the other to be modified.  Maybe someone on this list has access to a lathe and could bore out a Stronglight A9 or what-have-you, a 10-minute job max, and mail it back for just a few bucks. 

The stakes are lower too, because although milling the fork is fairly safe, there is some risk, especially if you have to mail it.  If a crown race is lost in shipping, they aren't worth all that much and are easily replaced.

-Mark

[Ray Varella]

I see JIS headsets on eBay all the time.

It might be worth a quick look there.

Ray
Vallejo CA

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[David Cummings]

On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 4:51:34 PM UTC-7, Ray Varella wrote:

I see JIS headsets on eBay all the time.

But not with needle or roller bearings.  I've have followed searches for both and have not seen one JIS since this thread was started - only ISO.

[Stephen Poole]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Stephen Poole" <nsc.e...@gmail.com>
Date: 5 Dec 2016 11:45 am
Subject: Re: [650B] Re: Current state of roller bearing 1" threadless

To: "Ray Varella" <rayvar...@gmail.com>
Cc:

Mark is right that boring out a crown race should be relatively easy, however, if it was me I'd machine the crown race seat to 26.4 and ream and face the headtube to 30.2mm. We used to do this by default 25 years ago on Cannondale 2.8 frames in order to be able to fit needle bearing headsets; standard headsets died quickly in those frames.

Needle bearing headsets are typically a one-time, permanent solution. I've yet to replace one, and my oldest is from 1982. If you get one with Stronglight-style separate bearing surfaces, (ie, anything European) both these and the bearings themselves are easily replaced, though this would only be necessary if the headset was never regreased and thus corroded solid.

Milling the frame and fork should take less than half an hour extra if the headset is being replaced, but bear in mind that needle bearing headsets typically need a minimum steerer length of around headtube length + 38mm, and that's not including any cable hangers or extra spacers, etc. One can sometimes mill the headtube a bit shorter to gain a few mm, but this is tedious on steel frames, though easy with alu. Frames fitted with *Shimano* headsets are often ~5mm too short in the steerer to easily fit needle bearing headsets (headtube + 33mm), so measure before getting too carried away.

Later,
Stephen

[alight]

The Tange G-Master headsets on ebay are often 27.0 crown race... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tange-G-Master-Taper-Roller-2000-alloy-headset-NOS-sealed-/122211098005

[Chris Cullum]

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Mark Bulgier <ma...@bulgier.net> wrote:

If you know someone with a metal lathe, even a little tabletop hobbyist lathe, the crown race of some of those needle headsets is aluminum and would be easy to bore out to 26.9, or whatever the press-fit size should be for a 27.0 fork crown.

I have the crown race milling cutter to take the crown down to ISO, but maybe in your town a lathe is easier to find.  Or maybe you want to keep the fork original, for posterity.  Certain very old and/or rare bikes shouldn't be modified if it's not necessary, because they are part of the historical record.  I don't think your Trek is in that category but opinions will vary on that.

I'd say that old Trek is pretty fair game. It's never going to be a museum piece or anything. If milling down the crown race makes it more pleasant to ride, what's the harm? The fact that some of these were 27.0 and some 26.4 kinda shows that no one is committing a sacrilege here. I think they were churning them out with what was on hand. Pretty nice frames all considered too. I love them. They could make a strong stake for being more Bobbish than Bridgestones.
 

-Mark

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[Mark Bulgier]

Chris Cullum wrote:

> I'd say that old Trek is pretty fair game. It's never going to be a museum piece or anything. If milling down the crown race makes it more pleasant to ride, what's the harm?

In case you thought I disagreed -- I did say that I didn't think the Trek was in that category, bikes that need to be preserved.  We are in agreement.
The main or only reason to bore the headset is if it's easier/cheaper/faster.

Stephen/satanas wrote:

> [snip] Stronglight-style separate bearing surfaces, (ie, anything European) both these

> and the bearings themselves are easily replaced, though this would only be necessary if
> the headset was never regreased and thus corroded solid.

I have seen Stronglights that were worn out, looking like the "false brinneling" that happens to ball headsets, only the indents were shaped like the rollers of course, not a roundish dimple like you get with balls.  I don't know the service history on those, i.e. what it takes to do that, but I assume lack of grease is a contributing factor.  But they are not necessarily a lifetime solution.

-Mark

[Reed Kennedy]

Here you go David:
http://www.cyclestoussaint.com/products/neco-837-1-jis-alloy-threaded-headset-for-1-threaded-fork

Threaded, JIS / 27.0, roller bearing lower, $25.

My Velo Routier came with one. Seems to work just dandy.


Reed

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[David Cummings]

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 5:51 PM, alight wrote:

The Tange G-Master headsets on ebay are often 27.0 crown race... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tange-G-Master-Taper-Roller-2000-alloy-headset-NOS-sealed-/122211098005

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle.  I even did a google search for Tange G Masters (a used one just ended on eBay and the seller indicated it was 26.4).  The NOS price could be worth it to save the cost of refacing the crown and headset...

If this were a museum quality bike, I wouldn't touch it.  If I don't have to, I prefer not to alter bikes.  I am not above re-tapping French threaded cranks (non-museum pieces) to ISO.  If that headset doesn't work out, I'm not above altering the fork and headset.  But it would be easier if I didn't have to...  

This is a more BOB-ish bike than my RB-1.  Both bikes have been converted to 650b, but the Trek leans hard to the rando-side.

Thanks for the link!

[David Cummings]

On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 7:44:56 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:

Here you go David:
http://www.cyclestoussaint.com/products/neco-837-1-jis-alloy-threaded-headset-for-1-threaded-fork

Threaded, JIS / 27.0, roller bearing lower, $25.

My Velo Routier came with one. Seems to work just dandy.


Reed

Thank you! This will go in my bookmarks section.  Both my '88 Specialized Sirrus and '91 RB-1 have shimmy, so this could be an option for them (though I don't know what their crown races measure - Taiwanese and Japanese, respectively).  Not sure if larger frames are more susceptible to shimmy.  I'll have to measure stack heights carefully...

(Just purely on a side note, their Cream colored Pari-Motos would look sick on a classic rando! I sure like what they are doing.)

I made an offer and snagged the Tange for the Trek already.  It'll look snazzy on the Trek. :) 

[Les Lammers]

Rivendell sells one: https://www.rivbike.com/collections/stems/products/headset-tange-ird-needl-blastr-roller-drive

On Sunday, April 24, 2016 at 12:09:39 PM UTC-4, Dave Feldman wrote:

I keep my nose to the ground for a few roller bearing headsets, threaded or threadless, to sell--and the only ones in current production are relative cheapos made by the Taiwanese company Token.  No US wholesaler carries them.  Soma sells a threaded-only, roller bottom/ball top Tange headset.  Miche, Stronglight, Ritchey, FSA--all are out of the roller bearing business.  Damn shame and hope it changes--they're good for more than moderating shimmy on low-trail bikes.

On Sunday, April 24, 2016 at 6:07:02 AM UTC-7, Andrew Cohen wrote:

I get some shimmy at certain speeds with my 650b bike.  It has a 1" threadless headtube/steerer setup.  It is currently fitted with a Cane Creek 110 headset, and I thought I'd try a roller bearing headset based on BQ articles and internet suggestions.  Looking around, I have only found 2 available, the Miche Primato and a model from Token.  Is either preferred, or is there another option that is best quality/function.  I am likely to get the Token as I would prefer a black headset like the cane creek and I have only seen the miche in silver.

Thanks in advance for the knowledge!

[David Cummings]

I snagged the Tange 30.0/27 headset.  It'll be spring when I can try it out - about a foot of snow and single digits right now.  

I found the box of the Origin8 headset I put on my Trek.  Apparently one can fit a 30.2 aluminum headset into a 30.0 head tube... Here's to hoping I didn't inadvertently resize my head tube... and hoping the headset comes back out without too much fuss...

David "why are these cups so hard to press in?" Cummings

[Dave Feldman]

Aside from their alleged abililty to tame oscillation in a frame, roller bearing headsets are just plain good merchandise.  I am a working mechanic with 40 years of experience.  Trek sold thousands of bikes with Stronglight headsets in the 1980's, both the A-9's and a cheaper plastic unit.  I overhaul an occasional Trek from that period where the only good bearing surface left is the Stronglight roller bearing headset.  Take them apart, clean everything up, switch the bottom bearings to the top, and it's good for another 20 years.  I would love to see these come back in all sizes.

David Feldman

Vancouver, WA