Pari Moto's set up tubeless...

[Peter Weigle]

Thought the 650b group would enjoy this.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49353569@N00/7733141722/in/photostream

I'm loving these rims and the whole tubeless set up. 

Imo it brings out the best in the Hetre and Pari Moto tires...

and I see no down side.

best,

ptr 

 

[Chasteen Rick]

I have 28h P 23s laced to White Industries hubs and plan to mount tubeless Hetres this weekend.  I'd considered tubeless Pari-Motos but was concerned that I wouldn't be able to run enough tire pressure.  I may just try the PMs now.  

Thanks for the insight.

Rick

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[Peter Weigle]

Rick,all,

The Hetre's and Pari Moto's booth hook up on the P-23's real well so there in no worry about too much pressure causing a problem.

Once I get the sealant in I inflate to about 50-60 lbs, rotate and shake the wheels so the sealant gets everywhere. I leave them pumped up and continue to move them around to be sure the sealant travels...

I did the black PM's last evening, and will put them on my bike and ride them tonight. I will probably start out around 40-45 or so pounds of air and adjust to get the ride I want.

2 quick tips.

1. If you have trouble getting a tire to seat tubeless, remove stem and  install a tube in it and pump it up the old fashioned way. Leave it for a day or?, then break the bead on one side, slide the tube out, (swap valve back in) and then re-inflate with your compressor to see if you can get it to go this time. Having an extra pair of hands to gently press in on the tire where the air seems to be leaking seems to help.

2. A friend just returned from Ogden Utah from a Specialized seminar workshop/ride session.

One of the seminars was about mounting tubeless tires on tubeless rims. 

The instructor said you start putting the tire on away from the valve, and finish prying it on at the valve...

(sort of opposite of how we were taught to do tubed tires).

I imagine this is so the bead doesn't drop down and wedge between the sealing grommet on the inner valve stem and the rims bead.

Hope this helps...

ptr

---

From: Chasteen Rick <cycl...@gmail.com>
To: Peter Weigle <jpwe...@sbcglobal.net>
Cc: 650b <65...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, August 7, 2012 11:34:20 AM
Subject: Re: [650B] Pari Moto's set up tubeless...

[Matt Churches]

I'm curious about the tubeless setup. I am in the process of building up a new wheelset for my newly built VO Polyvalent. I am going to be using a Shimano 71 dyno hub front and a Dt Swiss 190 rear hub laced to Velocity A23 rims with Stan's rim tape and Hetres. 

I am a bike mechanic and have dealt with Stan's tubeless stuff for mtn bikes over the years. I am just unsure if it will work for someone my size (6'6" 250lbs). Any big guys running Hetres tubed or tubeless? What psi are you running?

I am currently borrowing the wheels from another bike and just installed Hetres the other day. On my ride home from work yesterday I had my first flat.

Matt Churches

Ann Arbor, MI

[William Lindsay]

Thank you Peter for posting.  Timely for me since my Pacenti box with a pair of P23s just arrived!  

[Kirk Pacenti]

Great post Peter, thanks for the in depth feedback!

Cheers,
KP

[Anthony King]

I set up some Pari-Motos tubeless for a customer last week. Fantastic tires. I hadn't stocked them in the past but just ordered some for the shop. Cheers to Kirk and the 650B list for getting the tire produced.

[Hoffsta]

Thanks for the tips in this thread. I have a couple questions for a tubeless conversion with A23 or PL23 (I haven't decided yet) & Pari Motos

Things needed from Stan's are:

Universal 44mm Tubeless Road Valve Stem (pair)

Stan's Rim Tape - should this be the 21mm or 25mm?

Stan's Sealant - 2 oz per wheel as recommended?

Anything else?

Is there a benefit (besides the few grams) of using the PL23 over the A23 for going tubeless?

I watched the videos on Stan's site. In one version he put down two layers of the yellow tape and on another just one layer. Is one layer enough with these rims? Are these rims drilled properly for the Universal Valve Stems or do they need to be drilled out? Do you have any other tips for the first time tubeless converter?

Thanks, Sean

[jpwe...@sbcglobal.net]

Sean,

On the Pacenti rim, the inner (and only the inner) valve hole need to be enlarged to 3/8ths, easy to do with a cordless drill, just takes a moment. Be sure to de-bur the hole and any of the spoke holes that feel like they have a sharp edge

Anthony might want to chime in here on his rim, if the inner hole needs to be enlarged?. 

If you use the Pacenti rims the 21mm rim tape seems best. I wipe the inside of the rim with  clean solvent, then let it dry, so the tape really sticks well. Pull and stretch (as much as possible) the tape as you're applying it.

Remove valve core, dry mount the tire,(no sealant), inflate and make sure it runs true...

As I mentioned somewhere else, if you can't get tire to seat, remove Stan's valve stem, install a tube, inflate, let it sit for a while. Deflate and break bead on one side only. Re-install Stan's valve and try to re-inflate only having one side to seal this time,,, seems to help a lot. 

I almost fill a red Stan's cup up with sealant, then pour it into a spare plastic bottle with a pointed cap. 

Then slide a clear plastic tube over it. With the valve core removed squeeze in the measured amount of sealant.

( I do it this way so I don't have to break the bead and pour in. Just seems easier and cleaner to me).

I pre-measure and put sealant into other bottle so I know exactly how much is in the tire. I did my first wheels using the Stan's bottle trying to read the amount on the side, and in the end had put wayyy too much in the tire.

Re-install valve core, inflate, then shake wheel, lay it over on it's side and spin slowly, then do the other side etc to distribute the sealant.

Go ride...

[cyclotourist]

Peter et al, the sealant injector that Stan sells is a great little tool for keeping it clean. Bottles work pretty good as well, but I think this is a great little tool. http://www.notubes.com/2oz-Tire-Sealant-Injector-P348C16.aspx

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 5:48 AM, <jpwe...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I almost fill a red Stan's cup up with sealant, then pour it into a spare plastic bottle with a pointed cap. 

Then slide a clear plastic tube over it. With the valve core removed squeeze in the measured amount of sealant.

( I do it this way so I don't have to break the bead and pour in. Just seems easier and cleaner to me).

I pre-measure and put sealant into other bottle so I know exactly how much is in the tire. I did my first wheels using the Stan's bottle trying to read the amount on the side, and in the end had put wayyy too much in the tire.

Re-install valve core, inflate, then shake wheel, lay it over on it's side and spin slowly, then do the othe

--
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

**
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson.

[Anthony King]

On Thursday, August 23, 2012 9:38:42 AM UTC-4, cyclotourist wrote:

Peter et al, the sealant injector that Stan sells is a great little tool for keeping it clean. Bottles work pretty good as well, but I think this is a great little tool. http://www.notubes.com/2oz-Tire-Sealant-Injector-P348C16.aspx

I was just about to post this. I use the same method Peter describes but use the sealant injector. I have them for customers buying other tubeless stuff from me, but they aren't on my website. 

I'd reiterate that you definitely want the less-commonly found 21mm tape for A23's or PL23's. 

On a related note I just received an email from Velocity that they have A23 tubeless conversion kits in stock. They didn't have a kit with 21mm tape previously. I'll probably start stocking these since they have the tape and valve stems in one package and are a couple dollars less than buying the two items separately.

[Peter Weigle]

David, all,

Injector is a great idea!

Being a cheap old Yankee makes me want to continue using the bottle method,,

(but don't be surprised if you see an injector laying around in a background photo in my shop;~)

The most important thing here is you use enough sealant, without overdoing it.

ptr

---

From: cyclotourist <cyclot...@gmail.com>
To: 65...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, August 23, 2012 9:38:44 AM
Subject: Re: [650B] Re: Pari Moto's set up tubeless...

[Hoffsta]

Sweet, you guys are awesome. I feel totally confident to go for this now. Thanks for all the advice!

Sean

Eugene, OR

[DanielYorbaLinda]

Has anyone on the list run the GB Lierre tubeless?

 

Daniel

Yorba Linda, CA

On Tuesday, August 7, 2012 8:14:51 AM UTC-7, Peter Weigle wrote:

[Kirk Pacenti]

I can't speak for Peter, but the only rims that seem to have this
problem with our tires are Stan's.

Stan makes an excellent product, but I believe his MTB rims, because
of the unique bead design, are only rated for 40psi (Iirc).

Best regards,
KP



On Feb 3, 10:32 pm, Jace Ives <iv...@sou.edu> wrote:
> Hey Peter,
>
> I just mounted up a Tan Pari-moto on Stans Crest.  The sidewalls only at
> the embossed lettering was seeping. After a night it seemed to hold. I then
> pumped it from 40 up to 60. At 60 the tire blew off. Have you had any of
> your Pari-motos blow off?
>
> -Jace

> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* Chasteen Rick <cycl...@gmail.com <javascript:>>
> > *To:* Peter Weigle <jpwe...@sbcglobal.net <javascript:>>
> > *Cc:* 650b <65...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>>
> > *Sent:* Tue, August 7, 2012 11:34:20 AM
> > *Subject:* Re: [650B] Pari Moto's set up tubeless...

>
> > I have 28h P 23s laced to White Industries hubs and plan to mount tubeless
> > Hetres this weekend.  I'd considered tubeless Pari-Motos but was concerned
> > that I wouldn't be able to run enough tire pressure.  I may just try the
> > PMs now.
>
> > Thanks for the insight.
>
> > Rick
>

> > On Aug 7, 2012, at 10:14 AM, Peter Weigle <jpwe...@sbcglobal.net<javascript:>>

> > wrote:
>
> > Thought the 650b group would enjoy this.
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/49353569@N00/7733141722/in/photostream
>
> > I'm loving these rims and the whole tubeless set up.
> > Imo it brings out the best in the Hetre and Pari Moto tires...
> > and I see no down side.
>
> > best,
> > ptr
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "650b" group.

> > To post to this group, send email to 65...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 650b+uns...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>
> > .

[lincoln]

Yes I have Had my Pari-Motos blow off the rim, at over 35 miles per hour.  Scariest thing ever to happen to me on a bicycle.  When they do blow off the tire squirms around the rim with the sealant acting as lubricant, feels like you are on ice.  I was very lucky to come to stop upright.  The setup was A23 rims running about 45lbs of pressure.  I now ride the tires with tubes and the difference in ride quality is very small. 

Is it really worth it?  Until there is true tubeless bead on the tires I question if it is, but you've been warned.

Lincoln

[Peter Weigle]

I had 2 sets of wheels set up tubeless last year, both featured the new Pacenti rims.

One pair had black Pari Motos, and one had a pair of Hetre's,, No issues what so ever.

Both tires mounted up fairly easily on the Pacenti rims, a little tight but in a tubeless application that's probably a plus. While inflating them I could hear the bead snap into place all around the tire, a very positive seating of the bead was assured. I did not lube the bead or the rim to get this to happen.

I rode a lot of gravel, hot rodded with the club across the river, and never had any concerns at all.

For the record, I've only used the Pacenti rims tubeless, and with my positive experience wouldn't consider anything else, they're light, handsome and have worked well for me.

(this isn't meant to be a sales hype, I'm just pleased with how well the combo worked for me).

** When I hear about rider's having trouble mounting tires, not having tires run straight and true, or tires blowing off the rims, I always wonder if it 's the parts being used, or is it possibly operator error? Seems like the parts usually get blamed first.... (Lincoln, I don't mean you necessarily, this is just a blanket statement).

Here's my bike with the PM's mounted tubeless. http://www.flickr.com/photos/49353569@N00/7788585956/in/photostream/

ptr

 

---

From: lincoln <linco...@gmail.com>
To: 65...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 5, 2013 5:22:36 AM
Subject: [650B] Re: Pari Moto's set up tubeless...

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[Jace Ives]

Hello Kirk,

Thanks for the info. 

Your PL23 rim seems to have a much deeper sidewall/rim hook, do you think this is the main difference from the Stan's Crest that holds the tire better. Have you any attempt with the Grand Bois extra Leger?

Thanks again.

-Jace

[Kirk Pacenti]

@ Lincoln,

Scary indeed. However I should point out that this is a rim issue, not
a tire issue. The A23 (imo) should not be set up tubeless. The inner
well design was not intended for tubeless use and has no means of
holding the tire bead in place, like other UST / tubeless friendly rim
designs do.

@ Jace,

Something to keep in mind is that Stan's bead design (the height of
the hook) has less to do with the tubeless function and is more about
increasing the effective tire volume. It pushes the tire bead up, and
the casing out of the rim. This is helpful with tubeless in that it
allows one to ride much lower pressures. However, the design becomes
dependent on a very tight tire fit to keep the tires on the rim.

I decided to go with ETRTO standards when designing my rims(about 1mm
taller bead hook) for safety and liability reasons. The hooks on my
rims are deeper much more substantial. I think this makes initial set
up of tubeless systems a little more difficult, but more reliable in
the long run. For those who can not get a particular model or brand of
tire to seal, I suggest using a split inner tube (Youtube "ghetto
tubeless") to tighten the fit and create a better seal.

I have not tested any GB tires tubeless.

Cheers,
KP

[Longleaf Bicycles]

Scary indeed. However I should point out that this is a rim issue, not
a tire issue. The A23 (imo) should not be set up tubeless. The inner
well design was not intended for tubeless use and has no means of
holding the tire bead in place, like other UST / tubeless friendly rim
designs do.

Kirk,

You may have not seen the new A23 extrusion, which is tubeless friendly and has an inner well shape almost exactly like the PL23's. The PL23's well is slightly deeper, which makes it superior in my opinion. Tires mount a little more easily on the PL23's. The PL23 has a slightly deeper rim well, but the shape is the same.

I've attached a diagram of the new A23 cross section. Because there are no tubeless specific 650B tires running tires tubeless isn't something I can wholeheartedly recommend. I would need to be certain why some tires are blowing off at speed on tubeless friendly rims to do so. 

Disclaimer: I sell both PL23 and A23 650B rims, I also distribute A23 650B rims.

Anthony

[Kirk Pacenti]

Anthony,

Because there was a blow off, I assumed the OP was using the old rim
design...

Cheers,
KP

On Feb 6, 10:16 am, Longleaf Bicycles <longleafbicyc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>  Screen Shot 2013-02-06 at 10.11.23 AM.png
> 46KViewDownload

[lincoln]

Hi here is a more detailed chain of events in my blowout, there is chance my inexperience was the issue but I think others without experience with tubeless setups might include it their decisions. I originally sent to Peter W. thinking it was to the group but it was just to Peter.


There is a good chance that it was user error that caused my blow out.  But I think the tolerances are very small and there is chance of paying a significant price for your error.  I will describe the series of events and let everyone say to themselves whether they have the skills required.

The wheels came with the tires mounted  tubeless by an experienced builder who regularly contributes here.  I rode them several hundred miles without incident.  One day I come out to the garage and the rear is completely flat.  I am aware that getting them seated can be tricky, but I get the bead to catch with a pump.  I spin the wheel and there is something off.   I contact the wheel builder who describes how he gets them to seat,  I read several posts in various forums.  I work and massage the tire for hours, I pumped them up to 75 pounds and let them down several times, I reduced the wobble to a very small fraction of what it was.  Hardly any, but perceptible.  The fine line on the tire above the rim is visible all the way around and appeared to be equidistant from the edge of the rim all the way around.  I rode the bike twice about 20 miles each time with a mix of road and trail.  I checked the wobble each time I rode, it seemed it had become almost imperceptible.  Third ride I am less than mile into it descending a paved road with some washboard bumps and the rear tire goes.  My wife is right behind me saying get out of the middle of the road a car is coming (she doesn't know I have flatted)  I have time to say to her 3 times I'm in trouble, every time I even touch the front brake the back end wants to come around. 150 yards later I get it stopped. 

I have ridden a lot for 18 years and maintain 4 bikes for myself and 3 for my wife.  This was my first foray into tubeless, so yes it could be user, but the room for error is small.  I believe the wheel builder had a clever comment in this forum after I shared the story in Sept.  He said he would no longer offer it to customers because the margin for error was so small and running tubeless was just hot rodding.

I also want to add the difference in ride quality with tubes is very, very small.

Lincoln

 

[Rick Chasteen]

Any idea of the tire pressure at the time it blew off the rim?

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[lincoln]

approximately 45 lbs

On Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:14:51 AM UTC-4, Peter Weigle wrote:

[E Fong]

I know this is an old thread, but need clarification if enlarging the valve hole to 3/8ths for the PL23 is really necessary?  Just looking over the Stan's stem spec, and it says it fits holes up to 8MM.  A 3/8ths hole would be larger and probably would pull thru, no?

[Rick Johnson]

Any tubeless stem that seals the inner rim hole will work. There are many different shapes available from other manufacturers, several of which I like better than Stan's.
I avoid drilling rims at all costs.

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

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[E Fong]

Agree, I want to avoid the drilling.  I have the Stan's in hand, so just checking why the 3/8ths enlargement.

[Rick Johnson]

I think that 3/8" number may be referring to one of Stan's old installation videos - which I'm near certain predates the current generation of stems.

These Mavic UST stems are one of my favorite for low profile rims:
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=4605

These Easton's are good too:
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=41594

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

On 9/23/2014 3:28 PM, E Fong wrote:

Agree, I want to avoid the drilling.  I have the Stan's in hand, so just checking why the 3/8ths enlargement.

[E Fong]

Thanks, I'll keep those in mind for the future.

[Carlos Eduardo Livino]

Thread dig I know, but has anyone tried Pari-Motos tubeless with Stan's ZTR Crest rims? (or any Stan's rims for that matter)

I'm considering this combination but I wonder if it's safe? (road and mostly dirt road use).

Cheers. :-)

[B Sloma]

I had Soma B Lines on my Crests and Pari Motos on WTB KOM's.  I ran the Crests much of last summer commuting and gravel ride/racing with the B lines tubeless without an issue.  I ran the Pari Motos tubeless on the KOM rims on some really rough rocky stuff during a couple of events with no issues whatsoever.  

I don't see why the Pari Moto and Crests won't work.