Wheels and brake recs for Crust Lightning Bolt

[John Guild]

Hi everyone,

Matt at Crust is building up a Crust Lightning Bolt for me. I'm new to 650B wheels and disc brakes, and would love to get recommendations. This bike will spend 85% of its time on pavement (lousy pavement, but still pavement). For this build, I'll prioritize zippiness over carrying loads. For brakes, I'll take easy to adjust and maintain above all else.

Thanks!

John

[Bill M.]

I recently set up my first set of discs.  I went with the Juin Tech R1's, which are cable actuated hydraulics.  Setup was very easy, they aren't obscenely heavy, and performance is fine so far though I have not had a chance to ride the bike in anything but flat terrain.  They are not self adjusting but adjustment is toolless and simpler.

Bill

Stockton, CA 

[Mario Russo]

Hi John,

did you have a budget in mind?

My experience so far suggests that modern hydraulic disc brakes are largely set-and-forget until you need to change pads. I run Shimano Alfine hydro on my daily rider for the last 3 years and I've not needed to touch the fluid - just change pads. Earlier hydro iterations on my mountain bikes ~10 years ago were a PITA. Comparatively I've used Avid BB5, BB7 mech and they are generally ok, but I need to fiddle with pad adjustment more than I care to.

For this reason I'll be going with wet brakes on my upcoming Endpoint H/G build. New Shimano stuff looks nice albeit spendy, I am going to try out TRP Hylex system.

[John Guild]

Thanks, Mario. Let's say I want to stick to under $750 for a wheelset. I am going totally blind on disc brakes--no idea what my money gets me there.

[Randall Daniels]

If you decide to go with mechanical disc brakes make sure you choose a dual piston model. The best dual piston/mech brake IME are the TRP Spyres. They are not completely maintenance free but I run TruckerCo metallic pads with Shimano rotors and go about 1500 miles between adjustments, that's 1.5-2 months of riding for me. I ride a bit of gravel and often in the rain - the stock pads are very poor so if you do go with Spyres just throw away the stock pads. 

[Mario Russo]

Any thoughts on tubeless?

A few "stock" wheel configs to get you moving:

• November had a deal a few months ago on fancy i9 hubs + Kinlin disc tubeless rims.
• Endpoint offers a few reasonably priced WTB rim + Bitex (or Shutter Precision dyno options) 
• in UK, Cycle Clinic offers Novatec / Kinlin wheelset (10% off atm)

But obviously if you have a local shop / wheel builder you trust the options are endless.

[avand...@gmail.com]

Matt Larsen built a set of wheels for me and was happy to answer all of my questions. http://www.mlwheels.com/stock-wheels/. He built a wheelset with a DT Swiss 350 hub / Shutter precision on  WTB KOM rims. The DT Swiss 350 is upgradeable and easily serviceable. If you choose to run tubleless, the rims work as a system with WTB's 650b tires. Mounting can be accomplished with a floor pump. 

Brakes. If you are running an integrated shifting system then a Shimano hydraulic setup would be my rec. Even Tiagra is hydro now https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/shimano-tiagra-4700-hydraulic-disc-groupset/

If you are running bar-end or ?? then TRP Hylex would make a great system.

Cable actuated hydraulics are ok, I have the TRP Hy/RDs. They're a bit better than mechanical but not nigh and day.

Mechanical discs? Why? Budget constraints? Ease of maintenance? A shop setup my hydraulic brakes and they have been trouble free for several years.

I've also bled a set of brakes and it's 15 minutes, a place to work and following some instructions. Sticking with mechanicals would be far down my list of options unless I was wanting to re-use brakes or integrated shifters.

"What if I'm 6000 miles from civilization, my hydro brake fails and the wolves start closing in?"

Well if the worst happens and you lose you front brake, the most important one, you could always swap the rear to the front and make it home. 

 

On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 5:05:56 AM UTC-8, John Guild wrote:

[Justin Hughes]

I'm very happy with the wheels I built up. DT350/SP PL8X, Sapim Race, brass nips to Stan's Crest Mk3. The wheelset weighs like 1820g with tape and valves. Pretty light for dynamo and i23. I've ridden some rooty, rocky stuff and the rims came through just fine. 

Brakes can be dependent on what kind of drivetrain you want to run. I'm running SRAM Red HydroR and am very pleased. That's not to say I wouldn't be happy on any number of other setups. 

Justin

[William Lindsay]

What exactly does "easy to adjust and maintain" mean?  

Hydraulics in general are the easiest to adjust in that you don't adjust them.  Hydraulics are in general the easiest to maintain in that there is essentially no maintenance.  Is that what you mean?  

Alternatively, you might mean 'easiest to set up' because you are doing your own build and you have never wrenched on any disc brakes at all.  Some home-mechanics seem to be less intimidated by mechanical disc brakes because they take a cable with a normal brakelever and it all just feels more comfortable and familiar, while hydraulics are spooky and intimidating.  

For these reasons you might want mechanical disc brakes because you are less intimidated by the set up, or because you want to avoid acquiring new tools for hydraulic brakes, or because you want to use brake levers you already have.  Even though mechanicals are 'harder to adjust', they are still easy.  Even though mechanicals need some maintenance, it's not a lot more than hydraulics.  

If I was devoted to mechanical disc brakes, I'd probably choose Paul Klampers or TRP Spyre  

If I was open to hydraulics, I prefer mineral oil systems, Shimano or TRP Hylex
Some people seem to believe that cable-actuated hydraulic pistons are the best of both worlds.  I'm not one of those people, but I've never used them to prove it one way or the other.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 5:05:56 AM UTC-8, John Guild wrote:

[Patrick Finnicum]

For wheels you could get away with just about anything. I’d recommend Hope or DT hubs laced to WTB KOM rims.

For brakes it really doesn’t get any better than hydraulic. Even the 105 level hydro stuff works incredibly.

If you want to use mech brakes the TRP Spyres use two pistons so they’re easier to set up. BB7s are an old stand by and you can adjust the pads without any tools, which is handy.

[Adem Rudin]

Thoughts on some disc brakes:

Cable-actuated:

The primary selling point of Avid BB7 cable-actuated discs is that they're cheap; they appear to have no other redeeming qualities. They're fiddly to set up, fiddly to adjust, and actual braking operation is firmly mediocre.

TRY Spyre: they get a lot of positive talk on the internet due to their dual-piston actuation. I've put a ton of miles on them on my commuter, and I'm pretty close to throwing them in the bin. The caliper is cheaply made and pretty flexy; as a result the braking feel is less confidence inspiring than my old XTR canti brakes. There's no locking/retention feature on the pad adjusters and they'll back out over the course of a few rides if you try to use them.

I've heard very good things about the Paul Klampers. The beefy caliper should be very rigid, which is what you want in your brake system - the force you apply goes into stopping the bike, rather than flexing the brake system. The pad adjusters appear to be designed to be both easy to operate *and* secured against backing out. Fully rebuildable. If you're looking for the intersection of "great brakes" and "easy to adjust and maintain", these might be the ticket. But $$$...

Hydraulic:

TRP Hylex: As far as I know, these are the only hydraulic dropbar levers without integrated shifters (if I'm wrong, please let me know!). They have a really interesting hood/lever shape; it's a very long extension. It seems like a very polarizing love-it-or-hate-it shape, FWIW I love the feel in the hand. Very firm braking, just like you'd expect from a hydraulic setup. On the minus: More side-to-side play in the lever that I'd like; the bearing area on the pivots seems really narrow. Also seemingly impossible to bleed correctly? I do my Shimano MTB levers in my garage no problem; trying to bleed the Hylex brakes made me wonder if I'm actually an idiot. Took it to the shop for them to do, and they confirmed they're awful - the head wrench said it took him 9 tries to get it right. Disclaimer: These are my thoughts on the original Hylex. I think the only difference with the newer Hylex RS is the drilled brake lever, but maybe they improved stuff under the hood.

Shimano: My buddy has a bike with the R8000-series Ultegra hydraulic levers and brakes, and they've seemed pretty great on the few test rides I've taken. I expect that they'll be just as easy to bleed as the other Shimano hydraulics. Also, I'd expect that the shift mechanism in the levers is 100% non-rebuildable, just like all the other Shimano brifters. *shrugs*

Haven't tried SRAM hydraulics, but I recall they they had a series of recalls a few years ago. Also haven't tried any cable-actuated hydraulic calipers, so no opinion on those.

Hope this helps you make a decision;

-Adem Rudin

Mountain View, CA

On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 5:05:56 AM UTC-8, John Guild wrote:

[John Guild]

Thanks, everyone. I feel much more prepped to head down to Belmar and work with Matt on a build at Crust HQ.

Hydraulic brakes seem to be the clear favorite.

[avand...@gmail.com]

I hope you report back how it rides. I'm pretty interested in this frame.

[Dan Widner]

John, sounds like you got a lot of good advice already.  I wanted to share that I am going through a similar situation having some 650b wheels built and needed to pick out disk brakes.  I knew I wanted to have:  an SP dynamo front hub and WTB Byway tires.  After doing some of my own research I visited Braden at Ride Endpoint and talked it through with him (plus I am local which helps).  Ended up with KOM rims and an inexpensive but reliable Bitex hub on the back.  Braden was very helpful.

For the brakes, I already had decided I wanted SRAM Force 22 mechanical brakes and have looked at the Paul Klamper, TRP and the Yokozuna.  The Yokozuna is interesting in that it is a mechanical/hydraulic hybrid.  I am down to choosing either the Klamper or the Yokozuna.

Good luck with the new bike!

Dan
Richmond, VA

On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 8:05:56 AM UTC-5, John Guild wrote:

[Bill M.]

The Yokozuna is the same brake as the Juin Tech R1 I mentioned above, just rebranded and packaged with Yoko's cables.

Bill

Stockton, CA

[Kevan Rutledge]

Just a PSA on the Juin-Tech R1 / Yokozuna Motoko brakes.  The front brake may not work with I.S. disc tabs and 160mm rotors.  Here's my NFE:

There's a ridge on the caliper that hits the I.S. tab.  The solution is to use a 180mm rotor, which moves the upper caliper mounting point above the I.S. tab.

Other than that, they're great!

Kevan in Pittsburgh

[Bill M.]

There's a lot of extra material on that IS tab, here's what mine looks like - the tab doesn't extend past the edge of the washer under the screw head:

Bill

Stockton, CA