Jones Plus SWB (27.5+)

[rcnute]

Sweet bike.  (Are we allowed to speak 27.5 here?)  http://www.jonesbikes.com/jones-plus-swb-complete-bicycle/

Ryan

[eric moss]

I'm ok speaking Jones. :)

Speaking of which, there is a good podcast with him, where he discusses the tradeoffs of the SWB and LWB models, and just what 'bike' means, e.g. "road bike" vs "gravel bike" vs "adventure bike".  It's worth hearing, IMO.

https://www.behindthehandlebarspodcast.com/podcasts/2018/4/18/ep-31-jeff-jones-jones-bikes

On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 12:02 PM, rcnute <rcn...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Sweet bike.  (Are we allowed to speak 27.5 here?)  http://www.jonesbikes.com/jones-plus-swb-complete-bicycle/

Ryan

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[Joe Bernard]

I dig it, I want to electrify it ;-)

[Mike Schiller]

your web browser will probably translate it to 650B+ Personally I love the plus tires for everything.  

Looks like a great bike in that price range.  He has his geometry dialed for rigid bikes.  Not  big fan of black bikes but it would look great with a tan Berthoud saddle and tan tape.

~mike 

Carlsbad  Ca

[satanas]

Jeff Jones is one of those people who seems to do nothing wrong. I had to contact them a while back for some Jones Loop bar bag related info and got a very helpful reply. Good people. ;-)

Later,
Stephen

[Justin, Oakland]

Does anyone make a loop bar that doesn’t yell JONES on the top or is in stock?

-J

[Joseph Bernard]

Bar tape, Justin. Wrap it!

On Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 8:24 PM Justin, Oakland <justin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone make a loop bar that doesn’t yell JONES on the top or is in stock?

-J

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[Justin August]

I meant loop bar bag!

[Stephen Poole]

Black marker pen will take care of the logo. They're were in stock at the Australian agent a few weeks ago...  ;-)

Later,

Stephen

[Tony DeFilippo]

The Jones logos especially on the bags is intense and doesn't add to the appeal for me either.

That said I'm excited about the lower price SWB Plus, putting a bike like that in the neighborhood of an un-discounted Surly/All City, Riv Clem or other... Wow, very cool. I was particularly impressed that he stuck to his commitment to the 50mm rims even on the lower spec bike. I've had a conversation about those rims and tires size re my original Plus and it's clear that Jeff considers them as much a part of the bike as the fork or loop bars.

I don't completely agree with his assertion that the 3" chronicle type knobby are good on road. They definitely work but I much prefer the 2.35" schwable tires for anything but loose off-road conditions.

At this price I think that the Jones would be my first suggestion as a recommendation for a friend looking for an all rounder in the sub $2k neighborhood. And if i find myself having to start over from scratch I think I'd do the same as well.

Tony

[Hudson Doerge]

Justin, there’s this bag by randijofab. https://www.randijofab.com/collections/bags/products/jeffs-joans-bar-bag?variant=12357293899862

Hudson in ATX

[eric moss]

I like the word play on that bag name, and I *really* like that it's light-colored.  IMO there are more than enough black-on-black bags in the world.  They cook the contents in the summer sun and make it harder to find things in the twilight.

On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 7:54 AM, 'Hudson Doerge' via 650b <65...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Justin, there’s this bag by randijofab. https://www.randijofab.com/collections/bags/products/jeffs-joans-bar-bag?variant=12357293899862

Hudson in ATX

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[Jesse]

Wonder if the long wheelbase model will be sold as a complete eventually as well...

[Jonathan Donehower]

I second anything from randijo. This looks like a great deal. It would probably overlap with my Joe Appaloosa but better for actual mountain biking. I’ll be curious to hear ride reports.

[Joe Bunik]

Broadfork

http://www.broadforkbags.com/store/p5/Banana_Hammock_for_Jones_H-Bars%C2%AE.html

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[Justin August]

Not bad. I might just have my buddy David @DonutSackBags make something

[Eric Fixler]

Bike Snob has been testing out this bike, the SWB one specifically. Looks pretty great. 

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 6:46 PM, Justin August <justin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Not bad. I might just have my buddy David @DonutSackBags make something

On Jul 16, 2018, 2:00 PM -0700, Joe Bunik <jbu...@gmail.com>, wrote:

Broadfork

http://www.broadforkbags.com/store/p5/Banana_Hammock_for_Jones_H-Bars%C2%AE.html

On 7/14/18, Justin August <justin...@gmail.com> wrote:

I meant loop bar bag!
On Jul 14, 2018, 8:30 PM -0700, Joseph Bernard <joer...@gmail.com>,
wrote:

Bar tape, Justin. Wrap it!

On Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 8:24 PM Justin, Oakland <justin...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Does anyone make a loop bar that doesn’t yell JONES on the top or is
in stock?

-J

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[Dave S]

Pondered making one of these a birthday present to myself but the shipping was $217.51!?  That can't be right, can it?

[Joseph Bernard]

Riv shipping for completes is about $175. $217 seems a bit high, but it's a long bike in a big box..

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 8:53 AM Dave S <macnc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Pondered making one of these a birthday present to myself but the shipping was $217.51!?  That can't be right, can it?

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[eric moss]

Shipping on bikes has gone crazy IMO -- UPS was > $50 for just a frame from Chicago to Portland.  Vanilla charges $200, and that's a 15lb racing bike in a 12lb box.  OTOH, everything has gotten more expensive, and they may be accounting for the box and the time to pack, as well.

[Andy Bailey Goodell]

I just shipped a road frameset NH to Chicago for $22 with 2-day shipping on Bikeflights. Made me think I should just send everything that way since I've shipped much smaller/lighter boxes for more on USPS!

I haven't shipped full bikes in a few years, but was typically running me about 50 plus insurance cross country. No idea where ~$200 is coming from unless that's "handling" charges.

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[Eric Daume]

They shouldn’t have much in the way of handling. The bikes are boxed up in China. Jones is essentially just forwarding them. 

Eric

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018, Andy Bailey Goodell <abg...@gmail.com> wrote:

I just shipped a road frameset NH to Chicago for $22 with 2-day shipping on Bikeflights. Made me think I should just send everything that way since I've shipped much smaller/lighter boxes for more on USPS!

I haven't shipped full bikes in a few years, but was typically running me about 50 plus insurance cross country. No idea where ~$200 is coming from unless that's "handling" charges.

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 12:33 PM eric moss <eric....@gmail.com> wrote:

Shipping on bikes has gone crazy IMO -- UPS was > $50 for just a frame from Chicago to Portland.  Vanilla charges $200, and that's a 15lb racing bike in a 12lb box.  OTOH, everything has gotten more expensive, and they may be accounting for the box and the time to pack, as well.

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Joseph Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Riv shipping for completes is about $175. $217 seems a bit high, but it's a long bike in a big box..

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 8:53 AM Dave S <macnc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Pondered making one of these a birthday present to myself but the shipping was $217.51!?  That can't be right, can it?

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[Mark in Beacon]

Shipping a full regular size bike across country via bikeflights has generally been in the neighborhood of $100 to a residential address for me lately, sans any extra insurance. In terms of coming from China, I suspect Jones might do what Riv does with the bikes from Taiwan, which is open, tune up and inspect before shipping to customer. But I have no idea. I imagine with those big rims and tires and etc., the Jones might cost more from the get go.

However, "handling" charges can be legit, especially in a small company. If it's not built into the price of the thing, people moving these boxes around and calling UPS etc. do need to be paid. We're just starting to see the "true" cost of shipping.

[Igor Belopolsky]

In the video about the new bikes, he says he/his staff do not build them up before packing, unlike the other completes they build.

The bikes are built up at the factory but not to the same extent as the custom bikes they build.

Hope this helps!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6CPiUyrTXo

[Chrissy]

Looks pretty good. Just watched the video. I'm a bit of a sucker for Jeff's enthusiasm for his products and kind of buy in to his point of view. Looking at the frame specs it is a 'budget' option compared to his regular frame sets. Frames aren't heat treated and the bb is regular threaded rather than EBB so probably brings the build price down quite a bit. Most components appear to be non branded budget options but am sure they've been selected carefully for function and reliability. I'd buy one if I was looking for that kind of bike.

[Mark in Beacon]

Chrissy wrote: I'd buy one if I was looking for that kind of bike.

Ah, but what kind of bike is it? If, as you say, you buy in to his point of view, according to Jeff, his bikes are hors categorie--they are designed to do everything, and do it better than the bikes designed for categories. So then you are looking for that kind of bike--we all are!

[Chrissy]

Ok so what I meant by agreeing with Jeff's point of view was agree with his general theories. Bar set up being closer and sitting in the bike rather than on it. I have a Stooge which I currently have set up with Jones bars close to the saddle so a more upright riding position with multiple hand and body positioning. Bike feels quite balanced like that. 

As far as having the one bike to rule them all, not so sure. I'd choose the Jones for off road/ touring/ commuting/ load hauling. Would I do a 200km brevet on it? Maybe. I've ridden the Stooge on a 200km road ride single speed with no dramas. Would I choose to ride 1000km brevet or PBP on it? Probably not. 

Obviously if Jeff wants to donate me one of his bikes to test his theory then I'd willingly oblige.

[Mark in Beacon]

I guess since neither of us has ridden a Jones, it's all speculation. I called Mr. Jones yesterday to see if the difference between a LWB and SWB would be enough for it to make sense to build a LWB rather than go with the SWB complete. He was very generous with his time but I felt a little bit like he was sticking to his talking points, points I am familiar with via the videos, etc., rather than responding to what I was telling him about my riding. I get that he isn't there to make a decision for me, though, especially with this big complete bike launch, he is understandably probably somewhat on autopilot at the moment. 

My only real criticism is that in his enthusiasm for his bike designs, he makes it sound like any other bike out there is essentially designed to make you miserable, if not outright kill you. I get he feels he needs to sell his bikes against the reigning frame geo and bike setup formulas, but I think he can ease back on the dis of other designs and still get his ideas across. I notice Grant P. pulled back on that approach a while ago. Positive is a good way to go! (During our conversation, I almost felt like an idiot for riding drop bars and 54mm tires!) Still, I'm thinking I'd like to give a Jones a go, see for myself, now that the Complete SWB Plus makes it quasi-affordable. I like that it will be completely different than any of my other bikes (don't have a proper mt. bike) and could potentially replace a few (most?!), plus I'm looking for something so I can head to Mt. Beacon more often and not have to hang so tense and cautious on the downhills.

[Mark in Beacon]

Are you talking 29er or 650B? Which Schwalbe 2.35s? And when you say "chronicle type" does that mean you haven't ridden actual Chronicles? Just asking because I am seriously considering this bike, and would definitely be trying it for extended paved riding in addition to gravel and trail. Right now I have 26" T Burts, the very light ones, and they are very nice on the road. Since the Complete does not have an EBB, I doubt you could drop the tire size that much without switching to 29, and I'm not planning on that any time soon. Other concern re pavement is bounce. Jeff thinks it's a fair tradeoff, but in the past it has driven me nuts. Maybe you get used to it after a year or two?

[Igor Belopolsky]

What appealed to me about the SWB/LWB (pre-completes) was that the EBB allowed you to also do single speed.

The Jones bikes certainly can fill the 'one bike for all' quiver.

I think if I were to sell my Surly Steamroller and my Wraith, I'd consider the complete. Steamroller because well I can commute on anything and Wraith well because I don't need it ;D

[Tony DeFilippo]

My Jones Plus (LWB) came with, and primarily wears chronicle 3" tires which Jones advocates as a good all told tire to include some pavement. I have stuck with these tires for the past year and occasionally commuted on it (100% paved). I definitely notice the bounce unless I up the tire pressure closer to high teens. I do get used to it though if I ride multiple days in a row, and the monster truck feeling of riding over anything and soaking up messy roads with potholes is fun.

My preference with the Jones on pavement is schwable big one 2.35" slicks. I have not found it necessary to adjust the EBB on my 24" frame when I make this change btw. Changing to such a smaller tire is pretty jarring, the stability sides a bit and I had to mess with inflation allot to get rid of squirm (2.35" tire mounted on 50mm rims) but I got to the point where I loved it. I forget the psi but when equipped with those tires I was resetting a ton of Strava segments on pavement and felt fast... For whatever that is worth.

I've got a spare 29er wheelset hanging and a new homes front hub too install to make tire swapping more convenient soon.

Tony

[Mark in Beacon]

Thanks Tony. Both of these tires you mention are 27.5? Does anyone currently make a 3-ish inch tire in this wheel size designed for asphalt or hard pack? How much cush do you lose pumping the Chronicles just enough to make the bounce mostly disappear? Id use the Swb off road but it would be a lot easier to justify it if I can use it for various road duties.

[Jim Mather]

On Monday, July 23, 2018 at 11:19:15 AM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon wrote:

Thanks Tony. Both of these tires you mention are 27.5? Does anyone currently make a 3-ish inch tire in this wheel size designed for asphalt or hard pack? How much cush do you lose pumping the Chronicles just enough to make the bounce mostly disappear? Id use the Swb off road but it would be a lot easier to justify it if I can use it for various road duties.

Schwalbe makes the G-One and Super Moto in 584x70. I haven't ridden the Super Moto, but I like the G-One a lot.  

[satanas]

Note that the 60-584 G-One Speed and the 70-584 G-One All-Round are very different. The Speed has what's effectively a shallow negative, diamond-like tread pattern and what appears to be a thinner casing than the All-Round which has small round knobs. If you've only seen one then the other may come as a bit of a shock!

Later,
Stephen