Bar end vs STI Shifters?

[Nathan Spratt]

New upcoming drop bar rando (road) build will have a large-ish front bag. I am happy with bar ends on my other bikes but am curious about STI Shifters as well as worried about the cables on the bar ends interfering with the front bag. Will be going 10 speed on this build. Anything else I should be thinking about? 

Cheers,

Nathan

[Andy Bailey Goodell]

I used brifters with a rando bag for a while*, just be careful to leave enough width to swing the shift levers inward. I think most of the new ones no longer have the inward cable routing, but beware on older shifters where the housing runs.

*Still do, but I just use them to brake now as I'm shifting on friction downtubes.

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[William Lindsay]

There are plenty of options:

downtube shifters are great

Running bar end shifters with your shift housing under the handlebar tape all the way to the tops works great

STI works great

stem shifters work great

Paul thumbies or similar clamped at the tops of the bars work great

Kelly take offs work great

I made my own threadless headset spacer mount for barcon shifters on the steertube, which works great

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Brad]

Pictures of the headset spacer, please.  What an interesting idea.

[Greg Achtem]

It's in his Flickr and it's pretty cool! I'm sure Bill will post the link. 

I'd have to say that Kelly Take Offs would not be great, Bill. Those have the most chance of intruding on the bags real estate. Unless you're using Poppi's 60 cm drop bars I suppose. 

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[Steve Palincsar]

On 02/07/2017 07:01 PM, Nathan Spratt wrote:

New upcoming drop bar rando (road) build will have a large-ish front bag. I am happy with bar ends on my other bikes but am curious about STI Shifters as well as worried about the cables on the bar ends interfering with the front bag.

Nothing to worry about re: cables coming from bar end shifters.  This is a crop from a photo of my old Saluki, but I have other bikes with bar end shifters and this same largest size Berthoud bag.  This bike had 46 cm bars, but the other ones I have now all have 44 cm bars and it's all just fine.

[Nathan Spratt]

I've run DT shifters but after switching to bar end, won't be switching back.

Never ran the shift housing all the way to the tops on the bar ends, could be a good solution if it works well.

I've used stem shifters but not a huge fan compared to other options.

Would consider a modern version of the suntour command shifters. Not Gevenalles, those don't work for me.

Kelly take offs seem interesting but don't think would with the bag.

I think going STI could be an interesting experiment, though I am happy with bar ends on my current bikes, so if the performance of the full wrap is the same it would be tempting.

[Greg Walton]

On Feb 7, 2017, at 7:52 PM, Nathan Spratt <nathan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> if the performance of the full wrap is the same it would be tempting.

I have run full wrap for many miles, Shimano 9 speed indexed bar end shifters. Performance has been stellar.

Greg
Seattle

[mitch....@gmail.com]

There may be a new option if DiaComp does a new version of Command shifters. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BP6GUjIjKhF/

--Mitch

[Peter Turskovitch]

I'm running friction 10 speed with the cables under the wrap. It's the best shifting set-up I've used. I've run 5 to 10 speed. My bike has long chainstays and I ended up needing a tandem shift cable for the rear.

Peter.

[satanas]

Command shifters aren't going to work with a bar bag unless the bag is tiny, the bars are huge or both. Like Kelly Take Offs, they protrude inwards from the brake levers considerably and will probably overlap the bag.

STI can be a pain with triples, with doubles everything is fine. NB: It's best to avoid STI levers with hidden cables, apart from the current crop. With 10 speed that means Tiagra 4700 is it, but this uses the road 11 speed cable travel so only 4700/5800/6800/9000/9100 RDs will work, and only 4700 officially. 4700 will apparently coexist with other road FDs, unofficially.

Bar-end shifters are a bit less handy - especially offroad or when standing IMO - but are reliable, light, cheap and less finicky if triple chainrings will be used. If it was me I'd get 4700 STI with double rings, but think seriously about using bar-ends, for the LHS anyway, if a triple. YMMV.

Later,
Stephen

[Philip Kim]

have you considered gevenalles? the brake cable runs under the wraps, while the shifter cbales run upwards, almost like non-aero brake cables. it's nice and out of the way, but still convenient to shift at the hoods. i got one on my pelican. going downtube shifters for my norther

[Stevef]

I had a set of Shimano STI levers on my Stag (since sold).  They are, I think, the 1st generation of STI levers that ran both shift and brake housing under the bar tape.  They're ten speed and the shift lever throw is quite short-never had a problem with it hitting the rando bag.  They were also the MOST comfortable brake hoods I've ever used - in conjunction with a set of Soma HWY1 bars, it was ride all day heaven underhand.  Much more comfortable than any previous generation STI levers I've tried, or most any brake only lever for that matter.  Changing shift cables was a real PIA tho-practically impossible to find the port and thread the cable through...that's the only downside I could find.

Steve

On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 7:01:43 PM UTC-5, Nathan Spratt wrote:

[desmond...@gmail.com]

Ergo or StI for real touring bikes is the best.. I run ergo ( now you can run SRAM ) because of both the up down mix match party's an in the old days under Handel bar tape fort HB bag.. Of course now StI does after twenty years .. But yes , bar ends bad, unless price ( even then) or restoring .. Cheers Allan 

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Greg Achtem]

Thank you for your insightful, if a bit hard to parse, post. Could you please elaborate on this:

But yes , bar ends bad, unless price ( even then) or restoring .. 

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at there.

On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 9:24 AM, <desmond...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ergo or StI for real touring bikes is the best.. I run ergo ( now you can run SRAM ) because of both the up down mix match party's an in the old days under Handel bar tape fort HB bag.. Of course now StI does after twenty years .. But yes , bar ends bad, unless price ( even then) or restoring .. Cheers Allan 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 8, 2017, at 5:32 AM, Stevef <stl...@gmail.com> wrote:

I had a set of Shimano STI levers on my Stag (since sold).  They are, I think, the 1st generation of STI levers that ran both shift and brake housing under the bar tape.  They're ten speed and the shift lever throw is quite short-never had a problem with it hitting the rando bag.  They were also the MOST comfortable brake hoods I've ever used - in conjunction with a set of Soma HWY1 bars, it was ride all day heaven underhand.  Much more comfortable than any previous generation STI levers I've tried, or most any brake only lever for that matter.  Changing shift cables was a real PIA tho-practically impossible to find the port and thread the cable through...that's the only downside I could find.

Steve

On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 7:01:43 PM UTC-5, Nathan Spratt wrote:

New upcoming drop bar rando (road) build will have a large-ish front bag. I am happy with bar ends on my other bikes but am curious about STI Shifters as well as worried about the cables on the bar ends interfering with the front bag. Will be going 10 speed on this build. Anything else I should be thinking about? 

Cheers,

Nathan

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[Stephen Poole]

Apple's iGrammer seems to have a few bugs still...

BTW, I have some V1.0 Dura-Ace 7400 STI levers which are still going and have given zero problems since 1991, so STI is not all unreliable or finicky.

Later,
Stephen (who's not a fan of iAnything)

On 9 Feb 2017 3:24 am, <desmond...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ergo or StI for real touring bikes is the best.. I run ergo ( now you can run SRAM ) because of both the up down mix match party's an in the old days under Handel bar tape fort HB bag.. Of course now StI does after twenty years .. But yes , bar ends bad, unless price ( even then) or restoring .. Cheers Allan 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 8, 2017, at 5:32 AM, Stevef <stl...@gmail.com> wrote:

I had a set of Shimano STI levers on my Stag (since sold).  They are, I think, the 1st generation of STI levers that ran both shift and brake housing under the bar tape.  They're ten speed and the shift lever throw is quite short-never had a problem with it hitting the rando bag.  They were also the MOST comfortable brake hoods I've ever used - in conjunction with a set of Soma HWY1 bars, it was ride all day heaven underhand.  Much more comfortable than any previous generation STI levers I've tried, or most any brake only lever for that matter.  Changing shift cables was a real PIA tho-practically impossible to find the port and thread the cable through...that's the only downside I could find.

Steve

On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 7:01:43 PM UTC-5, Nathan Spratt wrote:

New upcoming drop bar rando (road) build will have a large-ish front bag. I am happy with bar ends on my other bikes but am curious about STI Shifters as well as worried about the cables on the bar ends interfering with the front bag. Will be going 10 speed on this build. Anything else I should be thinking about? 

Cheers,

Nathan

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[David Pertuz]

I have not found this to be true. I have Command shifters on 48cm Noodles on my Rawland, with a medium-large (decidedly not small) Ostrich bar bag, and there is plenty of room between the shifter and the bag, even with bar mitts over the shifters. Enough to use 44cm bars, I think.

David

Chicago

[Stephen Poole]

ATMO, 48cm bars are huge; I didn't know they came that wide. I stand by what I said before - assuming normal width bars (up to 42cm C-C at the hoods) Command shifters are likely to be a problem - ditto with hand clearance to the bag. With 44s bags without side pockets might be okay, but I'd definitely measure before buying anything, whatever shifters might be used. If you're planning on using Crust's 66.6cm Leather Bars you'll probably be okay, otherwise caveat emptor applies.

Later,
Stephen (who remembers when Cinelli's #66 bars in 42 C-C were the widest available)

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[mitch....@gmail.com]

looking from above at Kelly Take-offs you'll see they protrude into the bag space a lot more than the old Command Shifters and those Dia-Comp repros I posted look tidy & low profile. (Old WTB shifter mounts in this style also take up a lot of room between the bars.) I use a homebrew version of Command Shifters and they work fine with a GB28 bag and a 40cm maes style bar on one bike although 42cm bar would be better. On another bike with a Compass Maes Parallel with 42cm width at the brake levers my home brew Command Shifters are fine with even a Docena bag, one of the widest boxy rando bags.

--Mitch

[Nathan Spratt]

This is good info to have. Do you know the reason to avoid the older STI levers with hidden cables? 4700 Could work fine for me though. I was planning a Sugino OX601D (double) w/ SUN XCD Mech for the front.

[Tim Gavin]

Shimano's 1st-generation of STIs with hidden cables are known for excessive cable wear, which can be as simple as requiring new cables more often, to as bad as cable ends breaking off inside the shifters (possibly fatal).

This includes 10-speed Dura Ace 7800 and 7900, Ultegra 6700, and 105 5700.   It has something to do with the cable routing inside the shifter, and the relatively short SIS cable pull.

Shimano apparently has addressed this problem with their newest STIs, including 11-speed Dura Ace 9000, Ultegra 6800, and 105 5800, and 10-speed Tiagra 4700 (which uses the same 11-speed cable pull).  The 11-speed cable pull is longer, which apparently helps somehow, and the interior cable routing of the shifter is improved.

I'm not sure if the new 9-speed Sora 3000 STIs with hidden shift cables use the old SIS or new shift cable pull.

4700 seems nice for the price.  You just have to realize that you have to use a matching 4700 RD; an older SIS RD won't work.

Personally, I'm OK with STI/Ergo/Doubletap shifters with double cranks.  I've never been very happy with them with triple cranks, for which I prefer bar end shifters.

And I'm really happy with 10-speed SRAM double tap shifters, which can index perfectly with a SRAM 10-speed MTB RD for wide-range cassettes.

Cheers,

Tim

[Stephen Poole]

7800 does not have hidden cables; I have them and am certain of this. They shift very well but the RH cable can bend, fray then eventually snap out of sight where it wraps around the drum inside the lever. They are very tedious to extract if they break there(!), so it's best to be a little paranoid and inspect the inner wire at the *first* sign of shifting degradation; they can break quite soon after and that means 10-60 minutes of frustration, very annoying for all if an hourly rate is being charged.

The V1.0 hidden cable levers (7900/6700/5700) suffer from having a lot more friction than the previous levers with exposed cables; shifting is better with both older and newer levers.

The longer cable pull for 9100/9000/6800/5800/4700 was done to make cable adjustment easier, similarly to DynaSys. I've no idea how this extra travel has been achieved mechanically as logic says more travel = bigger drum = harder to fit in the space available; perhaps it rotates through more degrees. It's been alleged that the cable routing inside the lever is improved (how?), and that plus lower friction cables gives better shifting than the previous generation.

The latest Sora uses the old cable pull if Shimano's spec sheets and compatibility tables are correct, but it's 9 speed not 10 so probably won't suit the OP.

Later,
Stephen

[Tim Gavin]

Thanks for the corrections

[Steve Palincsar]

On 02/08/2017 04:14 PM, Stephen Poole wrote:
>
> 7800 does not have hidden cables; I have them and am certain of this.
> They shift very well but the RH cable can bend, fray then eventually
> snap out of sight where it wraps around the drum inside the lever.
>

This is a common problem with virtually all flavors of Shimano STI.
Cables under the bar wrap, cables that stick out sideways, makes no
difference, as far as I can tell.

> They are very tedious to extract if they break there(!), so it's best
> to be a little paranoid and inspect the inner wire at the *first* sign
> of shifting degradation; they can break quite soon after and that
> means 10-60 minutes of frustration, very annoying for all if an hourly
> rate is being charged.
>

If you wait for shifting degradation chances are you have waited too
long. One of the riders on a ride I led last Sunday had her cable break
with absolutely zero warning; a few years ago one of the riders on a
ride I was on detected the first sign of a shifting problem 0.3 mi
before the cable broke. As for inspecting the wire, you can't see it
unless you remove it. Where the fraying happens is inside the guts of
the lever, where it can't be seen from the outside.

Your best bet is to preemptively replace the shifter cables every so
often. How often is a good question. A rider on a ride I was on a
couple of years ago broke a cable mid-ride and stopped at a bike shop
that happened to be on the route. They told him he should replace the
cable every 1,000 miles. I've heard it said that some racing teams
replace their cables every week -- but, of course, they have mechanics
on the payroll who get paid whether they're actually doing anything or
not, so the economics are rather different for them than for us. But if
you let it go more than 2,000 or 3,000 miles you are asking to have the
cable break while you're riding.

And by the way, sometimes when the cable frays and breaks little bits of
broken off wire get stuck inside the tiny, non-serviceable gears of the
STI mechanism and can't be removed. The only cure then is to replace
the entire unit. That happened to a member of my bike club at Bike
Virginia a few years ago.

As long as we're on the subject, when the cable breaks naturally the
derailleur shifts to the smallest sprocket, and all you've got is two
gears: Too High and Way Way Too High. Riding home with those two gears
won't be a lot of fun. So pull the broken cable through; loosen a water
bottle cage; push the derailleur in by hand while someone turns the
crank so it shifts onto a large sprocket. Tension the cable to keep it
there and retain the tension by wrapping the cable under the water
bottle cage and cinch it down by retightening the fastening screws. Now
you still have only two gears, but one will be a low climbing gear and
the other will be a reasonable level cruising gear. You can coast down
the hills.

[David Pertuz]

That is clever - thanks for posting that.

On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:

As long as we're on the subject, when the cable breaks naturally the derailleur shifts to the smallest sprocket, and all you've got is two gears: Too High and Way Way Too High.  Riding home with those two gears won't be a lot of fun.  So pull the broken cable through; loosen a water bottle cage; push the derailleur in by hand while someone turns the crank so it shifts onto a large sprocket.  Tension the cable to keep it there and retain the tension by wrapping the cable under the water bottle cage and cinch it down by retightening the fastening screws.  Now you still have only two gears, but one will be a low climbing gear and the other will be a reasonable level cruising gear.  You can coast down the hills.

[mitch....@gmail.com]

Anybody know if I need to be concerned about cable fray and snapping inside Ergo levers I maintain on others' bikes. I assume they might have similar issues(?).

thanks,
Mitch

[WMdeR]

Dear Mitch,

The 10 speed Ergo levers do not eat cables. I replace the cables every four years, or whenever I rebuild the g springs in the lever, whichever comes first.

Best,

Will
William M deRosset
Fort Collins CO

[Stephen Poole]

Cable breakage isn't common with Ergos (AFAIK) but I'd worry about hand damage if doing long brevets. It took mine several months to recover after PBP 2015, and I'll never use them again for really long rides.

Re Steve's comments: I've had to replace exactly one cable in my 7400 shifters since 1991; the original LH cable is still there. The first RH cable survived several months of training and touring, PBP 1991, plus many more brevets and at least a few more years after that. IME, it's only been some of the levers from 7800 on that have had more frequent cable problems.

I cannot dispute that it *could* be impossible to remove the cable, or parts thereof, but I extracted several from other people's 7800 levers before being paroled from the bike biz, with no failures. I never saw this issue with earlier levers, so doubt it was common with them. As Shimano have been said to have improved cable routing with their latest levers they've hopefully improved things; I'll ask a friend who's still in the biz next time I see him. If everyone had problems with STI there would be plenty of noise about it, but honestly it's not all gloom and doom.

The bikes I've seen where breakages occurred were typically high mileage, zero maintenance road racer's rides. I don't know if things are the same in the US, but here in Oz road racers often have zero mechanical sympatico or aptitude, and not uncommonly destroy all sorts of stuff as a result. That's been the case since at least the 1970s.

If you're really worried, then bar-end or down tube shifters, or these levers attached to Kelly Take Off or Paul Thumbies mounts are fairly failure proof - but somebody somewhere has broken samples of everything; if it can be made it can and will be broken. There are also Gevenalle's shifters, and of course Di2 and eTap  don't have mechanical shift cables to break, and nor do fixed gear or SS bikes.

STI is not, IMHO, the end of the world as we know it; there are much bigger problems facing humanity!

Later,
Stephen (who has never worked for or taken bribes from Shimano, and has bought and used STI levers and will continue to do so)

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[Steve Palincsar]

On 02/08/2017 09:07 PM, Stephen Poole wrote:
>
> Cable breakage isn't common with Ergos (AFAIK) but I'd worry about
> hand damage if doing long brevets. It took mine several months to
> recover after PBP 2015, and I'll never use them again for really long
> rides.
>

That's what I've heard, too. Can't tell from real-world experience,
because so few people around here actually have Ergo. I've also never
heard of anyone having the issue with SRAM Double Tap - and there are a
lot more of those around here.

> Re Steve's comments: I've had to replace exactly one cable in my 7400
> shifters since 1991; the original LH cable is still there. The first
> RH cable survived several months of training and touring, PBP 1991,
> plus many more brevets and at least a few more years after that. IME,
> it's only been some of the levers from 7800 on that have had more
> frequent cable problems.
>
> I cannot dispute that it *could* be impossible to remove the cable, or
> parts thereof,
>

As I said, happened to a woman I know on the first day of Bike
Virginia. No idea what vintage/guppo/number her STI units were. She
ended up buying a new shifter.

> but I extracted several from other people's 7800 levers before being
> paroled from the bike biz, with no failures. I never saw this issue
> with earlier levers, so doubt it was common with them. As Shimano have
> been said to have improved cable routing with their latest levers
> they've hopefully improved things; I'll ask a friend who's still in
> the biz next time I see him. If everyone had problems with STI there
> would be plenty of noise about it, but honestly it's not all gloom and
> doom.
>
> The bikes I've seen where breakages occurred were typically high
> mileage, zero maintenance road racer's rides. I don't know if things
> are the same in the US, but here in Oz road racers often have zero
> mechanical sympatico or aptitude, and not uncommonly destroy all sorts
> of stuff as a result. That's been the case since at least the 1970s.
>

Well, I've seen enough of my friends have it and absolutely none of them
were racers. Some, including the guy the LBS told to change the cables
every 1,000 miles could hardly be called a high-mileage rider: if he
does 2,000 miles a year that's a lot.

> If you're really worried, then bar-end or down tube shifters, or these
> levers attached to Kelly Take Off or Paul Thumbies mounts are fairly
> failure proof -
>

Bar end shifters will fray cables too. Shimano bar end shifters usually
start fraying the cable at around 5,000 miles according to my personal
maintenance records; SunTour Sprint "Silvers" at something like 6,000 -
7,000. The big difference is when a bar end shifter cable starts to
fray, the first broken strand pokes you in the finger. It hurts; you
look, and you can see the frayed cable because it happens out in the
open, and you detect it long before even half the strands are broken.

> but somebody somewhere has broken samples of everything; if it can be
> made it can and will be broken. There are also Gevenalle's shifters,
> and of course Di2 and eTap don't have mechanical shift cables to
> break, and nor do fixed gear or SS bikes.
>
> STI is not, IMHO, the end of the world as we know it; there are much
> bigger problems facing humanity!
>

It's certainly not the end of the world, any more than needing to change
oil in a car's engine is the end of the world. But it's important to
realize failures do occur and that they do it in a way that causes you
to break down by the side of the road. And it's equally important to
learn how to cope with those failures when they do occur. As it
happened the last person I rescued had a triple, so she was much better
off than if she'd had the typical compact double, but after a few miles
to get used to her "new three speed," she had so much fun that at the
end of the ride she said it almost made her wonder if she really needed
"30 speeds" when three had been so satisfactory.

[Nick Favicchio]

I like Ergos with my boxy bag. I got a screaming deal on some 1st gen 9 speed and have many thousand happy miles.

STI have a longer radius swing on the downshift. They've tended to fight with bags when shifting a few gears down. Still, the 105 10 speed I have worked just fine with a bag. I personally just prefer the Ergos.

Good clicky bar ends can also be brilliant and are long pull compatible. Barcons with tiny clicks, also great.

Downtube shifters are terrible :)

[Stephen Poole]

FWIW, if you have a Gilles Berthoud bar bag with side pockets (empty or full) the Ergo paddles can be impeded by the pockets or even catch in them if things don't align favourably; both are very annoying. This was with a GB22 and 3T bars ~40.5cm C-C at the levers. YMWV depending on setup.

Perhaps I should try SRAM (eTap?) road levers one day, but our paths haven't crossed yet; Shimano is way more common here on road bikes, SRAM much less so, Campag less again.

Later,
Stephen (who likes the history and concept of Campag more than the reality)

[Mike Schiller]

I've never had any cable breakage issues with Ergos.  For me they are a much better fit to my larger hands and function perfectly.  From 9 speed through 11 speed levers.  My 11 speed Athena's are shifting a 2nd gen 9 speed  XTR rear derailleur and 12-36 cassette on my dropbar monster with 3" wide  650B+ Bomboloni's.  

~mike

Carlsbad Ca.

[desmond...@gmail.com]

Yes , sorry was out walking an smoking cigar while writing  this..use either old campy ergo as all fronts we're made to be triples an work just fine with most cranks.. Use newer StI as it has under Handel bar cables unlike days past.. For HB( Handel bar bars).. An new SRAM just works brilliant with mixed match parts( road / MTB) with no fuss. Bars offer price though not much really , but you lose shifting more often on loaded touring bicycle. Again been touring full loads on campy ergo some 25 years - so well tested. If you we're restoring a old Jack Taylor or such , then maybe bar ends.. Or own a 7 thousand dollar Rivendell but talk about the price of patch kits an are fearful of being 86 from the club then again maybe bar ends;) .. Cheers Allan 

Sent from my iPhone

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[Alex Wetmore]

Try the gevenalles first.  I rode a pair on a test bike for BQ and I didn't like them at all, but one of the other testers thought the ergonomics were good.  It'll vary person to person.

They are awfully exposed in a crash, far more than any other shifter option that I've used.

Downtube shifters are my favorite option.  They are clean and simple, the reduced housing provides for very good and crisp indexing, and they are cheap and light.  I used to be a big barend shifter fan, but after riding with both for a long time I've found that downtube shifters are just as accessible for me.

alex

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From: 65...@googlegroups.com <65...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Philip Kim <phili...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2017 5:13:24 AM
To: 650b
Subject: [650B] Re: Bar end vs STI Shifters?

 

--

[Nathan Spratt]

Speaking of downtube shifters, what are my options for 10 speed? I see the Dura Ace 7900, is that fairly compatable with all 10 speed 105/Ultegra derailleurs? On my touring bike I am running 7700 downtube shifters (with suntour caps) on bar end pods, which I actually like better than the 7700 bar end shifters.

I understand that the 7900 shifters have no friction option for the RD, but I think I'm okay with that.

[desmond...@gmail.com]

When shifting , I find the rear derailleur to add weight an complexity .. By removing it an just using a steel bar to move the  up an down , much better.

Sent from my iPhone

[William Lindsay]

Brad wanted a picture of my headset spacer shifters.  I'm running this on two bikes.  On my Niner-Seven-Fiver, I'm running Microshift 10sp barcons with a Shimano Dynasys rear der. 

Shifters

Bike with Shifters

The other bike that is running this setup is my road bike.  Dura Ace 10sp barcons with Dura Ace 7900 derailers.  I don't have any photos of that bike, but here are the shifters:

Shimano 10sp stem shifters

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 5:27:52 PM UTC-8, Brad wrote:

Pictures of the headset spacer, please.  What an interesting idea.


On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 7:23:02 PM UTC-5, William Lindsay wrote:

There are plenty of options:

downtube shifters are great

Running bar end shifters with your shift housing under the handlebar tape all the way to the tops works great

STI works great

stem shifters work great

Paul thumbies or similar clamped at the tops of the bars work great

Kelly take offs work great

I made my own threadless headset spacer mount for barcon shifters on the steertube, which works great

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Evan Estern]

Another fan of downtube shifters here.  They rarely break or need service.  Shifts are faster and more positive.  They are lighter.  I like a clean cockpit with a minimum of cables so that's anther plus.  Traditional aero or non aero brake levers are more elegant IMO.  This is probably just me, but I find that I shift more carefully when I have to consciously reach down to the shift lever and consequently chains seem to last longer (less shifting under load I think)

[mitch....@gmail.com]

As long as we're expressing a little love for down-tube shifters let me add mine. The only bikes I don't set up with DTs are tandems and offroad bikes where, for both, I like to be able to shift without taking my hand from the bar. In both those cases I use a version of Command shifters. 

I really like the look and style of bar-ends and am often jealous of the bar-end set ups you see here. But whenever I set up one of my bikes with bar-ends I find again that it's about the same reach for my hand/arm down from the hoods or ramps to the bar-end as to the down-tube position. Seems like bar-ends should be closer that DTs on 58m frames but when I ride them they feel less easy to get to from the hoods than downtube shifters. So then I thought, the real bar-end advantage must be shifting from the drops, but unless I'm resting heel of hand right on the shifter, I still have to move my hand back on the drop to be after to shift. Must be just me. Add to that that when I reach down to the bar-end it makes my steering wobble a bit when I shift, whereas for downtube shifters there is no effect on steering to push a lever back and forth. Then add to that when I lean my bikes against walls the bar-end shifters tend to get bumped out of gear. 

Last Spring I built up two bikes with bar-ends for my kid and her boyfriend and the newer production bar-ends I used were so nice and easy to use (my previous wobble might have been from using classic Huret and Campagnolo bar-ends with stiff levers). One of the bikes was a pretty tall frame with bar at saddle height and the bar-ends were much closer than DTs would have been. I still bumped the levers wrong every time I leaned the bikes against something though. They loved the shifters and had no trouble. I'll stick with downtube shifters. 

--Mitch 

[Greg Achtem]

I thought I might engage you and try for understanding but obvious troll is obvious. 

[Stephen Poole]

Yep, for 10v downtube shifters 7900 is your current option. Neither SRAM nor Campag have made 10v downtube shifters, dunno about Microshift, but their stuff can be difficult to find. (I was going to get their DynaSys compatible barcons but gave up.)

The 7900 downtube shifters are compatible with most Shimano RDs, the exceptions being Dura-Ace 740x (6-8v), 10-11v MTB stuff and 11v road/Tiagra 4700; the last uses the 11v cable pull.

I like the simplicity and weight of DT shifters, but am used to having shifters on the bars; I was a barcon user before STI came along. I tend to occasionally put my hand into the front wheel when I'm forced to use DT shifters - especially offroad - but haven't lost any fingers, yet. Better the devil you know and all that, plus there are some things possible with STI and its clones that cannot be done otherwise.

Later,
Stephen

[desmond...@gmail.com]

Oh lighten up cowboy - don't be such a snowflake - it's just bicycles stuff not real life an that was a bit of at Alex expense ..,cheers Allan 

Sent from my iPhone

[rob perks]

It was many years back that I ran a set up with Kelly Take-offs, hard line noodle to get the cable run back under the tape.  From there you can drill and tap the inward facing shaped plates and either hard mount the front corners of your bag with screws or use a multitude of quick release type fasteners.  The ease of getting ergo setups and shmergo assemblies made this kind of obsolete, but it worked well with Rivendell style Hobo bags and the acorn equivalent.  I can not find any pictures of when i did this, but still have the bones in my parts piles, and it made any need for stiffeners obsolete as the bag was more of a soft basket 

Rob Perks

oceanaircycles.com

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Ventura, CA

On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 6:07:50 PM UTC-8, Greg wrote:

It's in his Flickr and it's pretty cool! I'm sure Bill will post the link. 

I'd have to say that Kelly Take Offs would not be great, Bill. Those have the most chance of intruding on the bags real estate. Unless you're using Poppi's 60 cm drop bars I suppose. 

On Feb 7, 2017, at 18:27, Brad <riendeau...@gmail.com> wrote:

Pictures of the headset spacer, please.  What an interesting idea.


On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 7:23:02 PM UTC-5, William Lindsay wrote:

There are plenty of options:

downtube shifters are great

Running bar end shifters with your shift housing under the handlebar tape all the way to the tops works great

STI works great

stem shifters work great

Paul thumbies or similar clamped at the tops of the bars work great

Kelly take offs work great

I made my own threadless headset spacer mount for barcon shifters on the steertube, which works great

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 4:01:43 PM UTC-8, Nathan Spratt wrote:

New upcoming drop bar rando (road) build will have a large-ish front bag. I am happy with bar ends on my other bikes but am curious about STI Shifters as well as worried about the cables on the bar ends interfering with the front bag. Will be going 10 speed on this build. Anything else I should be thinking about? 

Cheers,

Nathan