Roller type straddle cable yoke?

[Tom Norton]

I like the idea but was wondering if there might be another other than René Herse ?
Thanks !
Tom

[Steve Palincsar]

https://velo-orange.com/collections/brake-parts/products/gran-compe-straddle-cable-hanger

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Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

[Tom Norton]

Thanks! Forgot to look there!

[Benz Ouyang]

On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 5:42:53 AM UTC-8, Tom Norton wrote:

I like the idea but was wondering if there might be another other than René Herse ?

Dia Compe also makes them. Here, here, and many more on eBay using search terms "dia compe straddle".

[somervillebikes]

On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 8:48:04 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:

https://velo-orange.com/collections/brake-parts/products/gran-compe-straddle-cable-hanger 

I have an older set of Dia Compe roller straddles that look very similar to that one, but with a quick release cam that works well with levers that lack a QR. I don't know where I got them or with what brakes they originally were supplied, but they're probably out there on eBay.

Personally, I think roller straddles are needlessly complicated and don't provide any benefit. The straddles that I've found to work best for cantilever brakes are modern Tektro straddles with the set screws that lock the lateral cable adjustment and prevent it from sliding. There is no reason for the straddle to have the ability to slide or roll along the cable.

Anton

velolumino.com

[satanas]

+1

I dislike roller straddles. Yes, they look cool, but with some cantis that have limited tension adjustment (M900 XTR) it can be almost impossible to centre the brake; having to bend springs is annoying. It's often useful to prevent the straddle "self-centring" IME, and this can usually be achieved with just about anything that does not use a roller.

Later,
Stephen

[Mark Bulgier]

Anton wrote:

> I have an older set of Dia Compe roller straddles that look very similar to that one, but with a quick release cam 

I agree that the roller takes away a feature that any non-roller hanger has, with no corresponding advantage that I can see.

However the DiaCompe with the QR built in that Anton showed is cool enough to maybe live with a roller!  I have a few of those QR units but have not found just the right bike to put them on yet.

If you want a QR hanger that's not a roller, CLB in France made some.  Unfortunately they are stamped steel with poor plating, so they're usually found rusty and ugly.  But they do get the job done.  Seen on ebay now and then, if you're patient.

Mark B in Seattle

[Tom Norton]

I have Paul Touring Cantilever brakes. It seems like I am always fussing with the yoke to keep the brakes equally spaced. I do have some of those Tektro yokes. Forgot about them until it was mentioned.
The roller ones look cool! But do they do the job?

[John Clay]

Agree. It seems like a solution to a minor problem that is easily rectified by centering and shaping the straddle cable and/or adjusting the brake arm springs with the bonus of giving up the ease of disconnecting the straddle cable from the brake cable.

The only advantage to the pair that someone kindly gave me some years ago was that I misplaced the Mafac yokes for my set of RAID brakes. While fuming about doing so I remembered the little roller gizmos and that got my bike on the road. I've been too lazy to change them out.

John Clay

Tallahassee

On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 8:59:32 PM UTC-5, Mark Bulgier wrote:

I agree that the roller takes away a feature that any non-roller hanger has, with no corresponding advantage that I can see.

Mark B in Seattle

[Eric Nichols]

The RH/Compass roller type yokes have an interesting feature: depending on the direction that the pivot bolt is threaded into the body, they can either be free-rolling or fixed. I’ve always used the position of the yoke as a way of fine-tuning the left/right pad clearance, so I set them up fixed. Thus they function no differently than a normal yoke, except the straddle cable is captive.

Eric Nichols
Newfields NH

[Steve Palincsar]

They work far better than merely "acceptably."

On 1/6/20 9:25 AM, satanas wrote:
> Best avoided IMHO, unless you buy into the BQ Koolaid entirely and buy their brakes, straddle cables and roller hangers - at vast expense. Then things might work acceptably. Or not. (I'll never know.)

[satanas]

In my experience they suck.

Pros
1. Look fancy

Cons
1. Expensive
2. Harder to centre brake
3. Spongier
4. Can't unhook straddle cable

Caveat emptor,
Stephen

[Steve Palincsar]

If we are talking here about the Herse brakes, straddle cable and roller
hanger, you have no relevant experience, and your experience with other
similar systems is not applicable.

The Herse canti straddle cable can be unhooked at both, sides, and the
brake/cable combination isn't spongy at all.

[satanas]

I already said I hadn't used the RH bits, and that I'm unlikely ever to do so due to cost, etc. However, unless you have brake arms that easily release the straddle cables at both ends, roller straddles are a liability, for Rinko if nothing else. The RH brakes apparently allow this, but few do, including the vast majority of vaguely recent cantis. That the RH roller bits work in a system with the RH straddle wires and RH calipers does not mean they will be equally useful everywhere else.

The Dia-Compe roller straddles are in my experience crap - though well-made and nice-looking crap - and they're annoying for all the reasons listed before, especially galling given they cost more as well. They are not an upgrade in my experience unless looks are your only criterion; other parts are more functional, and cheaper too. And, FWIW, I've had the "pleasure" of working on most types of straddle cable hangers, and hundreds of instances of some, including non-roller DC parts. The DC roller straddles are right at the bottom of the barrel functionally, unless you're lucky: "Do you feel lucky, punk?"

Later,
Stephen

[somervillebikes]

I'm curious how the RH straddles secure the brake cable. From the photos, it appears to work sort of like a variation of a a cable knarp. What concerns me is that they function by putting the cable in shear stress as opposed to compression, as would something like the Dia Compe (compression of the cable over a broad section of cable between the straddle body and a backing plate). It seems like most components designed for cables (derailleurs, brakes, etc) utilize a plate-based compression mechanism which does not significantly deform the cable. Putting the cable in shear stress at one discreet point may cause deformation of the cable, thereby making future adjustments impossible or compromised, and/or weakening/severing of some of the cable strands... no?

Anton "Oh, the shear stress and tension of it all!" Tutter

velolumino.com

[p k]

I also dislike the roller straddle cable yoke. It takes fiddling to get it all right. After using the Grand Bois straddle cables, I don't think I can go back!

[Steve Palincsar]

On 1/6/20 2:11 PM, somervillebikes wrote:

I'm curious how the RH straddles secure the brake cable. From the photos, it appears to work sort of like a variation of a a cable knarp.

   

What concerns me is that they function by putting the cable in shear stress as opposed to compression, as would something like the Dia Compe (compression of the cable over a broad section of cable between the straddle body and a backing plate). It seems like most components designed for cables (derailleurs, brakes, etc) utilize a plate-based compression mechanism which does not significantly deform the cable. Putting the cable in shear stress at one discreet point may cause deformation of the cable, thereby making future adjustments impossible or compromised, and/or weakening/severing of some of the cable strands... no?

It's just like all the cantilever brakes have on just the one side, only here they have it on both sides.  I don't know squat about plate-based compression vs shear stress and all the rest, but if it works fine on one side of the brake why wouldn't it work just as fine on both sides of the brake? 

[Jan Heine]

The roller straddle cable yoke has a (minor) advantage: The brake automatically centers after you've removed a wheel, the first time you apply the brake. Or if you forget to center the brake and one pad is rubbing on the rim as you ride off, simply pull the brake lever, and the brake will center.

This only works if your brake's springs are well equalized. Many older cantis have springs of variable quality, and even pushing the end of one spring in- or outward with the little adjuster doesn't always produce consistent results. The springs on the Herse cantis are high quality, so right and left have equal tension, and the brake automatically centers. (That is also why we don't need a spring tension adjuster, which saves weight and simplifies adjustment.)

As Eric pointed out, you can reverse the bolt on the RH straddle cable yoke and lock the roller, so that it works like a normal straddle cable hanger. This is useful in case you somehow end up with a straddle cable that you need to run off-center – usually to compensate for unequal springs.

Other straddle cable yokes work fine, too – for the most part, it's not the yoke that introduces the sponginess, but the thick straddle cable itself that bends over the hanger rather than conform to it. Our brakes use a thinner straddle cable which is less springy, with a thicker straddle cable, you can try to 'set' the bend so that the cable runs smoothly over the hanger. If you're interested in details, you'll find them here:

https://www.renehersecycles.com/straddle-cables-done-right/

Jan Heine

Rene Herse Cycles

Reborn in the Cascade Mountains

www.renehersecycles.com

[j glenn]

How are the roller straddles with centerpulls? any negatives ?

[Greg Achtem]

The only concern I have with the rollers and centre pulls is that the straddle is captive if you have a non-rinko version of the brake. In real life this is only a problem when doing certain repairs or actions like totally removing the fork. It is only a matter of undoing a bolt and removing the roller but it is an extra step. And that bolt is really tiny if it drops and rolls off to wherever.

I was planning on using traditional hangers like Shimano or MAFAC and I still might go back to them, but I think the pulleys look cool.

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[Jan Heine]

The Rene Herse roller straddle cable yokes work just as well with centerpulls. We originally made them for our centerpulls...

Jan Heine

Rene Herse Cycles

Reborn in the Cascade Mountains

www.renehersecycles.com

[Mark Bulgier]

Greg Achtem wrote:

> I was planning on using traditional hangers like Shimano or MAFAC and I still might go back to them, but I think the pulleys look cool.

I like the '70s Weinmanns that came with Vainqueur brakes.  Not functionally better than any other brand once set up, but they had two slight improvements for while installing: (1) Unlike Mafac, the bolt is keyed to the aluminum bit so the cable can't ever come in at an angle (very minor point), and (2) the bolt and nut take two different size wrenches, so you don't need to have two 9 mm, like Mafac requires. (Yes I do have more than two 9 mm wrenches, but I still like the idea of it).  Wait, three reasons: The wrench faces on the nuts are taller, so the wrench is less likely to slip off than with Mafac.  Wait four reasons: A fanatical devotion to the Pope.  Ok that last one is just a gratuitous Python reference.

The '60s Weinmann yokes are a completely different design.  I like them too but the description above does not apply. 

Mark B

[Tom Norton]

OP here. I found,while rummaging around, a set of the Tektro yokes that lock the straddle cable. Just installed the rear one and I think I have my"problem" solved!