Dreamiest Conversion Candidate?

[Nick Favicchio]

Howdy all! I posted and linked pics over with the Bob's but figure this is a more appropriate spot :).

1976 Motobecane Grand Jubile (least it use to be)

https://flic.kr/p/rngLSd
https://flic.kr/p/sjemdV
https://flic.kr/p/sjfX12
https://flic.kr/p/s2FLLS

Temporary build until after the Oregon Outback when I can focus on this project and get it painted and properly built.

Now I wanna do another :). I'm eyeing the Raleigh International and Competition but I was looking at a Trek 500 Tri Series on Ebay that looks like it'd be a great conversion candidate. Low ish BB height but not the worst and Treks are lovely!!

Given your druthers - whats your dream summer project? What are you trolling CL and ebay and garage sales hoping to find?

[Steve Chan]

  Dreamiest? There is Sachs Sport Touring for sale right now on the paceline forum, and it occurred to me that it could probably be successfully converted to 650B :)
  But I'm trying to prune down my collection, not add new trophy bikes...

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[somervillebikes]

Nick,

That Motor Bacon came out fabulously-- easily one of the most thorough conversions I've seen outside of Peter Weigle's reincarnations. Congrats!

I have no dreams for future conversions-- I have added two purpose built 650B machines since my foray into 650B conversion land over four years ago.  That was my Shogun 1500 conversion. It came out nicely as far as conversion parameters go (lots of room for Hetres, high bottom bracket, etc) but with standard 9/6/9 tubing, it never felt quick. My purpose built 650Bs feel very quick. However, since re-visioning the Shogun as a 650B city bike with Postino bars and porteur rack, it has become my favorite bike to hop on for an errand of less than 5 miles. Still sluggish (doesn't 'plane'), but a wonderful bike for around town.

Anton

[David J Hays]

Gosh, Anton. I want to get a garage door like that for my classic bike shots.

David

[Jim Bronson]

That 105 rear derailer looks like it's giving you all it's got!  ;)

Seriously though, nice looking conversion.  You going to add some fenders?

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Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

[Justus Gunther]

Looks great. What all did you do to it? Did you re-rake the fork. Like the finish too, can you clear coat it?

[Nick Favicchio]

Got a few more links for that chain from the LBS.

Both this and my SOMA have roughly identical tubing - 28.6mm 8/5/8 seat tube, 28.6mm 9/6/9 down tube and 26.0mm 8/5/8 top tube. But it's SHOCKING how different the two bikes feel. The degree to which the old Motobecane sucks up hills is bonkers. And I've got the Strava stats to prove it.


The Jubile has a 531 main triangle only, fork and rear are "Motobecane de luxe" according to the catalog. Wonder if a Grand Record would be noticeably different.

MODIFICATION LIST

Guides for rear brake
Shifter bosses
Underneath BB Shell shifter guides
Rear der guide
threaded fender points on both rear bridges
canti posts
lowrider boss added to front fork
fork rerake to 65mm offset from 55mm (this was too drastic and will reset to 60mm for 35mm trail because of obviously sloping top tube and fender clearence issues)

Rear drop set to 130mm
BB tapped English (was Swiss)
Fork modified to ISO theading (takes typical 1" headset now, not French)

One thing I look for in conversion candidates is steep headtube angle (at least 73 but better 73.5 or 74) and lots of offset. This means you're very nearly low trail without any rerake. The Jubile is 74 degree headtube (I think, someone else's measurement and the catalog doesn't say) and 55mm offset. So that with 42 x 650b means 40mm trail. Pretty great but I like it a little lower.

Which old rigs have the best fork and rear stay clearences? Lots fit 38 - anything fit a 42mm tire reasonably well without too much rear stay crimping? I can't crimp the Jubile - stays already look pretty well musher from the factory.

[Nick Favicchio]

Fenders and paint to come in June. Hoping to clearcoat the bare frame but still unsure. Sounds like clear coats without a zinc containing base coat doesn't hold up.

[John Wilson]

Great job, Nick. I really like the way you're going about this. These classic steel bikes can work out, thx to you and guys like Peter Weigle for getting the ideas out there. I also got some ideas for a conversion here after having a brainstorm and googling it to see if anyone else had done anything like I was contemplating: http://chasingmailboxes.com/2011/05/18/bikes-to-like-ritchies-1979-austro-daimler-vent-noir-ii/

I'm currently working on a 650b sort of conversion with a '79 Austro Daimler Vent Noir ll. I love this bike and I originally played around with the gearing for old guy's legs by using a Campy GS (grooved) crank with 116 BCD, which got me down to a 50-36 and a 13-32 using an NR rear derailleur with a long aftermarket cage. Still a road bike with skinny tires though, then I found some offset brake shoes and swapped the NR brakes from short reach to long reach. So shoes up, 700c, shoes down, 650b.

I just finished building the 650b wheels (vintage 2120 Weinmann rims on Campy Record small flange hubs, with Raedelli spokes), so I've yet to figure out how big I can go with the 650b tires. So anyway, it'll still look classic and sort of stock and my collection will remain at N=I ain't tellin!  Photos when I'm done.

Best,

John Wilson

GBG, PA USA

On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 3:00:06 PM UTC-4, Nick Favicchio wrote:

[Nick Favicchio]

I like the <1mm clearance :). It's like the Quasi Motos on my Soma GR. It works, but I wouldn't suggest anybody else do it. The Soma frame I had no real worries about crimping to make room. This thing - I'd like more room but the chainstays are already HEAVILY dimpled. I don't want to and my builder doesn't want to further smash the tubes.

I'm hoping the pari motos I got today are acceptably comfy. That should make for great clearence and fenders lines.

[Tony DeFilippo]

Nick would you mind walking through your re-rake process? Do you have the proper frame building tools or did you improvise w/ your own jig?  I ask b/c of the '81 Trek 61x I've got sitting in the crawlspace hoping for a reincarnation...

Tony

[Joe Bunik]

Hi Tony

That sounds slightly familiar - here's a 1982(? IIRC!) 613 which I
provided the frame / helped my friend with a conversion of. Those are
the cheapie PL23 wheels which were available on ebay with the new 27.5
x 42 blackwall Paselas (available @RBW!).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/joe_bunik/15638086633

Boy, are these old Treks *great* riders. The only hangups with the 613
were the tight chainstays and the crown, which has reinforcement tangs
further crowding the issue. My non-quantitative impression is that the
1982 is a distinctly low-trail fork already; not sure any re-rake
would be needed.

=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

[Nick Favicchio]

I personally didn't rerake the fork. Frame builder did that and all the braze-ons. He used the tool/jig he made for bending all his forks but had to do each leg independently because he typically bends the fork legs first and then attach the drops. With the drops already there his jig wasn't able to do both legs together.

He's gonna fiddle with the jig so, going forward, he can rerake complete forks.

[Tony DeFilippo]

Joe,

Great pictures!  I love that old gunmetal/pewter color... I had a taller '82 612 that had the same paint and if it'd been in my size I'd still have it.  

Nick,

Thanks for the info, I've never messed around with brazing but my back of the head musing is the Trek would be a good frame to give it a try on.  I tried selling it locally for the past couple months and it hasn't gone so I figure I'll just hang on to it and if I ever follow through on my musing about doing my own brazing it's a perfect trial frame to work on.

Tony

[Nick Favicchio]

http://m.ebay.com/itm/281678256865?nav=SEARCH

Not the oldie Ultima with the Super Record titanium stuff still attached but under $200 shipped? I'll bet that'd make a SUPER comfy ride. Sexier French bend in the fork might be nice but $200? Buy something from Soma or have something made - if youre as fussy as me.

[John Wilson]

I had mentioned earlier that I was working on an Austro Daimler Vent Noir ll as a 650b conversion but with the ability to convert quickly back and forth to it's former 700c self. I finally got it together today enough to do a quick ride. The tires are some old Wolber listed as 40 width, but I haven't measured them yet. Plenty of clearance on the front, minimal on the rear but possibly more if I remove the dropout adjusters and slide the wheel back a bit more. Looks like plenty of fender clearance, although I'll have to be creative since there are no attachment points on the dropouts. The fork rake may be suspect but I'll have to wait and see how it rides over distance and loaded. This may be a compromise since I intended from the start to make this a two-in-one bike. I'm sure it'll be a work in progress for some time to come.

Major components are period correct Campy NR or GS (116 BCD crank). The key to the easy changeover was converting from short to long reach Campy NR brakes and of course the odd offset brake shoes. Photos attached, more when I upload them to Flickr.

Best,

John Wilson

GBG, PA   USA

On Saturday, May 2, 2015 at 1:25:17 AM UTC-4, Nick Favicchio wrote:

[Andrew Drummond]

My wife rides an early-80's fillet brazed Ritchey road bike we converted about a year ago. It's got a Cinelli crown with plenty of clearance; the stays limit tires to 38mm but the Pari-Motos at Boulder made that an easy choice. Maybe if it gets repainted some day I'll dimple the chainstays and fix a few other things, but for now it's great. The BB is a little low, but no issues so far. No great photos right now (I'm traveling, and I'm not sure how to add photos from my phone's Google groups interface anyway), but I can take some when I get home if anyone's interested.

Andrew

[Andrew Drummond]

One more thing. I rode a Fuji America for a few years (until it got hit and wtecked), and I think that would make a good conversion. I loved that bike, and if they weren't so scarce I'd find another one. Geometry-wise it's very similar to my '83 Trek 620, which would also make a fine conversion. Already low-ish trail, and decent clearance. Brake reach might be an issue, as it's already standard reach, but I have no problem butchering the frame with canti posts. Not that I need another project, but it's tempting.

Andrew

[Ryan Watson]

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone has suggested my favorite, the mid 80's Specialized Sequoias.
I've actually converted three of them to 650B. They will fit Hetres, the Tektro R556 brakes have just enough reach, and they handle well with front loads despite the trail being a bit high (mid 50s with Hetres).
I still enjoy the ride of my original green one despite owning a slew of 650B specific frames since.

Ryan in Albuquerque

[John Wilson]

Ryan,

I really like the Sequoias, in fact my son and I built an '83 from the ground up for his 30th birthday. Since the frame is pushing his size to the large side, a 650B conversion might make good since for him, too. Especially since he rides mostly rail trails and the C & O towpath. Nice to know that it makes a good conversion.  The Sequoia tends to have a shorter top tube, though, and for myself, I picked the Austro Daimler because that frame (and the Schwinn Paramount) tend to better match MY frame.

Best,

John Wilson

GBE, PA  USA

[Ken Freeman]

Success with UO-8 or PX-10 conversions?  I have one of each looking for a use.  The UO-8 has quite low trail in the 35 mm range, and the early PX-10 is around 45 mm trail.

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Ken Freeman
Ann Arbor, MI USA

[Nick Favicchio]

My fiancé has a px-10 and I don't like it. Simplex rear dropout is a bummer, rear seat bridge has no brake reinforcement (just a squished hole now), lugs are pretty but black? Clearences look tight. Dunno, not feeling it.

[Brent Avery]

     I had posted my 1981 Fuji S12S before but for those interested the mid '70's to early '80's S10S, S12S and America are all very good candidates for a low trail 650b conversion. In my case I had the wheel set so had the S12S frame cold set to accept a 135mm 9 speed Shimano XT rear hub. It has worked out very well and will accept 38mm tires and 45mm fenders plus the bottom bracket clearance is still very good, even with 175mm crank arms and wide MKS Sylvan pedals. Dia Compe 750 center pulls work well with this frame. I have had it for two years and it has been one of my favorite bikes. Would love to convert an America.


  Brent Avery

  Burnaby, B.C., Canada

[Brent Avery]

        I should mention that there is a 1981 S12S ( 58 cm  ) listed in the Seattle Craigslist for 250.00 in excellent condition - same color as mine. If I had the room I would be driving down there and buying it, seems they are on existent up here. I have seen very few come up for sale, either too well liked by their owners or just not that many around, probably both. The LTD version is also nice with the half chromed rear stays.

[Nick Favicchio]

Your bike and the bike on CL are beautiful! For $250, that's a steal. And I think I'm closer to the seller than you are :).

No no. What's the tube set? Love the fork bend.

[Brad]

Too well loved.  That was  a very popular bike. 

[Brent Avery]

  Nick - The S12S, at least in 1981 - 82 used Fuji's own chromoly tube set - the main triangle was straight gauge with hi ten stays and fork while the Ltd used a double butted main triangle with hi ten stays and forks. Only the America was full chromoly and was also hand built whereas the S12S was basically machine assembled. However Fuji quality control was right up there and they certainly got the geometry right as the 650b conversion really makes it a nice handling and riding bike - the wider tires help of course but if you are looking for a low trail setup it works very well. Fork rake is around 65mm, maybe a bit more, with a 73 degree head tube it comes out to around 35 - 37mm of trail, although it could be less as I have not measured the rake too accurately yet.

[Andrew Patteson]

Hi, Joe, late question here, but did you need to dimple the chainstays to get enough clearance for that 42mm Pasela?

I have an '83 600/610 that I hope to convert at some point, and am wondering if this will need to happen.

Thanks,

Andrew