1998 Lemond Alpe D' Huez 650B conversion

[Ed Braley]

There have been a couple of Lemond conversions lately. I've been thinking of doing mine, and I finally got it together today. I really didn't like this bike with the 700C setup, but on 650B it's really sweet now. ;-)

 

I got this bike in a trade. It's the only Campy Ergopower bike I've ridden. I do like the controls, but as I said, I never really liked the bike very much. It may be steel, but on 23mm 700C wheels it feels as stiff as an aluminum bike. And the stock 39/53 12-23 race gearing was not quite low enough either. But I really didn't want to spring for bigger tires or invest in more Campy 8 speed cassettes. 650B seemed the way to go, but...

 

That wretched stock 1" threaded unicrown fork was not wide enough for 650x38B tires, and the axle to crown dimension is 385mm, whereas most 700C forks are around 370mm... It was all an interconnected mess of a challenge.

 

But I think it's sorted out now.

 

A nice Tange replacement fork for a 27" wheeled bike with a 385mm dimension fit the bill. 

 

Using a Diacompe 750 front brake and a 610 rear satisfied the braking requirements. And that Surly cable hanger works really well on the Tig frame's binder clamp. Since Campy 8 speed and Shimano 7 speed spacing is the same, I'm running a Dura Ace 13-28 freewheel on the wheelset that I borrowed from my Motobecane until I lace up something for this machine. SKS P-45s with P-clamp on the front complete the conversion.

 

I rode it today. And yes, I had a blast!

 

Here's a photo set with some before and after shots mixed together in the stream:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25373440@N00/sets/72157630720620458/

[rcnute]

Another winner! I'd like to try this on one of the carbon/steel
Lemonds.

Ryan

[Mitch Browne]

Ed,

I'm nearing completion of my third 650B conversion. Bob Jackson 700c to 650b.

I used Dia-Compe 750 mod front and rear but still have the stock 110 double ended straddle wire. I note your straddle cable is a lot longer. Did you make your own or purchase them else where?

Thanks,

Mitch Browne

San Luis Obispo, CA.

[Steve Chan]

Cool! Out of curiousity, which of these 650B conversions has been
your lightest> Was it the Trek Pilot? Which of them rode the best?

Steve

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[Ed Braley]

At 21 pounds I think the Pilot is the lightest 650B conversion I've done. I
could get that number down a little more with a few part substitutions. It
has a heavy stem, bar and saddle, a 36 spoke Synergy wheelset, and a 30
speed Shimano 105 triple crank drivetrain. Lighter cockpit components, a 28
hole A23 wheelset, a SRAM Rival compact drivetrain, and fender removal might
get it close to 19 pounds.

It's hard to say which rides the best. Seriously, whenever I take one out
for a refresher ride, I think: "Wow, this is really nice, I need to ride
this one more often!" ;-)

I will say one thing in general. They all ride like they always rode, only
now with a 650B flavor. They're all smoother, and more comfortable. The
handling isn't dramatically different.

The vintage steel bikes generally have a similar feel, although that red
Japanese Raleigh Super Course has steep angles and a lot of fork rake which
makes it feel like a very quick handling bike. The 38mm tires add a little
p-trail, and it handles better than it did on narrower 700C tires.

The modern bikes are the most dramatic, especially the Trek Pilot and the
Motobecane Outlaw disc brake bike. The frames feel stiff, but they ride
great on 650B. The Trek 1200c, the Pacer with the Bontrager fork, and the
Soma Speedster are similar in that regard. The 1-1/8" threadless front ends
feel very direct - there's no stem flex at all, they're rock solid and it's
a good feeling of steering control.

This recent Lemond conversion is somewhere in the middle of the mix. The
frame is relatively stiff for steel, but the front end isn't quite as direct
as the 1-1/8 threadless setups on the newer technology bikes.

Subtle differences here and there... They're all good, and I ride whatever
the mood dictates.

Ed.

[Ed Braley]

Oh, one more thing... It's probably worth re-stating that I like race bike
handling with the versatility and ride of 650x38B. Light, quick,
comfortable, and fast.

I don't like long chain stays, slow handling, slack head angles and floppy
front ends. I don't want a Porteur, a touring bike, or anything like that. I
use my bikes for 2-3 hour rides over varied terrain, and while I mix it up,
I like to go FAST! At least what constitutes "fast" for me ;-)

It was a real revelation when I put the 650B wheels from my NOS Raleigh
Portage into that Heron Road frame years ago. I thought "Oh my God, I can't
believe this freakin' bike!" ... It was like a drug rush, and I've been
addicted ever since. Many of you remember the 650B conversion frenzy that
ensued thereafter.

I sold the Portage but I'm still riding the Heron. I'm still converting
racey bikes to 650B. If I wasn't semi retired I'd have a few more high tech
projects in the works right now...

And I really like what a lot of you are doing with your own conversions. You
definately "get it". too. As much as I'd like to see one or more of the
mainstream companies "get it" and offer some production 650B sport bikes,
it's fun to be part of a little underground movement doing stuff that nobody
else has figured out. We're still off the front, Avant-garde.

If this new mtb 650B revival takes off, things could get really interesting.
Disc brake cyclocross bikes, and a whole slew of new cool stuff. Lots of
cross segment technology convergance will enable some incredible bike
building oportunites.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 16:57 -0400, Ed Braley wrote:
> Oh, one more thing... It's probably worth re-stating that I like race
> bike handling with the versatility and ride of 650x38B. Light, quick,
> comfortable, and fast.
>

I wonder what you thought of the article on the Lyon 650B racing bike in
the summer 2012 BQ.

[Ed Braley]

I haven't seen it, not reading BQ. But I certainly like the sound of it!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Palincsar" <pali...@his.com>
To: "Ed Braley" <edbr...@maine.rr.com>
Cc: "Steve Chan" <sych...@gmail.com>; <65...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [650B] 1998 Lemond Alpe D' Huez 650B conversion

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 17:20 -0400, Ed Braley wrote:
> I haven't seen it, not reading BQ. But I certainly like the sound of it!

Let me urge you to get this issue and read the article.

[Steve Chan]

The summary is that Jeff Lyon built a "project" frameset for the BQ
test, that was 650B fat tire race-ish bike, with thinwall std gauge
tubing, steering geometry that is low trail but for an unloaded front
end. It was built up as a basically a far tire event bike - no dynamo
stuff, no fenders, no racks. Think fat tire steel race bike in 650B.

I think it is actually the perfect bike for people who want the
benefits of fat tires and low trail but have no intention to ride on
self-supported, long distance events (which is most people who ride
recreationally).

Steve

[Ed Braley]

Yes, I'd say that Jeff "gets it"! Sounds like a very cool bike. What was the
front end trail? 40ish?

Ed.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Chan" <sych...@gmail.com>
To: "Steve Palincsar" <pali...@his.com>
Cc: "Ed Braley" <edbr...@maine.rr.com>; <65...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [650B] 1998 Lemond Alpe D' Huez 650B conversion

[Steve Chan]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Ed Braley <edbr...@maine.rr.com> wrote:
> Yes, I'd say that Jeff "gets it"! Sounds like a very cool bike. What was the
> front end trail? 40ish?

If I recall correctly, it was around 42mm.

My Trek 720 that Jeff worked on has a fork that he reraked to
provide the same trail and I really like the handling (I rarely ever
carry a front load on it).

Steve

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 17:54 -0400, Ed Braley wrote:
> Yes, I'd say that Jeff "gets it"! Sounds like a very cool bike. What was the
> front end trail? 40ish?

42.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 14:46 -0700, Steve Chan wrote:
> The summary is that Jeff Lyon built a "project" frameset for the BQ
> test, that was 650B fat tire race-ish bike, with thinwall std gauge
> tubing, steering geometry that is low trail but for an unloaded front
> end. It was built up as a basically a far tire event bike - no dynamo
> stuff, no fenders, no racks. Think fat tire steel race bike in 650B.
>
> I think it is actually the perfect bike for people who want the
> benefits of fat tires and low trail but have no intention to ride on
> self-supported, long distance events (which is most people who ride
> recreationally).

In other words, channeling Ed Braley!

[Joseph Hogg]

Hi Ed,

I follow with interest the 650B conversions you've done. I rode my Lotus Legend 650B this morning and recall your Legend conversion.

As other candidates among modern bikes, I've recently thought of Gunnar's disc-brake cross bike, the Hyper-X - CX. The brakes won't be an issue and I doubt the tire width willl be a problem. The bottom bracket drop is 70 mm, a little deep, but I would probably run crank arms of 165 mm. Certainly easy to go back and forth between 650B and 700C.

On Gunnar's web site, or maybe its blog, I recall a build at 21 lbs for the complete bike.

Have you considered this one, or know of someone who has?

Thanks,

Joe

Los Angeles, CA

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[Chasteen Rick]

> As other candidates among modern bikes, I've recently thought of Gunnar's disc-brake cross bike, the Hyper-X - CX. The brakes won't be an issue and I doubt the tire width willl be a problem. The bottom bracket drop is 70 mm, a little deep, but I would probably run crank arms of 165 mm. Certainly easy to go back and forth between 650B and 700C.
>

> Have you considered this one, or know of someone who has?

I want to do this with a Gunnar Fast Lane. Looks like there would be room for Pari-Motos.

Rick
>
>

[Nick Bull]

I converted a Gunnar Sport to 650B.  I had Waterford make me a low-trail fork, an "A Homer Hilsen" fork with 62mm rake.  Runs fine with 700x42 Hetres.  Using VO 700x42 aluminum fenders.  Mafac Raid brakes in front, and at the moment I have a Tektro 559 brake in the rear.

Nick

[Steve Chan]

Ooooohhhh - photos?

Steve

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[Nicholas Bull]

This was taken at the end of Paris-Brest-Paris, about a year ago.  This is before I installed the Raid front brake, instead I had a Tektro brake of some sort made for BMX'ers that did not have a quick-release.

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Steve Chan wrote:

   Ooooohhhh - photos?

   Steve

[Steven Frederick]

I contacted Waterford about having a Fast Lane custom built to accept
650bX42's and fenders and it wasn't a huge upcharge. Worth an email
or call I think!

Steve Frederick, East Lansing, MI

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[singlecross]

Don't forget about the Lemond Poprad Disc framesets... I have two that have been "converted" to 650B. I say "converted" because with the disc brakes you just pop 650B wheels in with the flip of the wheel skewers. Conversion time is less than a minute! Disc brakes... a lazy 650B man's dream!

Adam

DownEast