Super Low trail 650B-friendly forks 1" and 1-1/8", $100!

[rswatson]

Electra Ticino Forks on sale:

http://store.electrabike.com/eSource/ecom/eSource/items/items-2-S0-lV1framefork-lV2forks.aspx?store=

I can confirm that the non-canti Ticino fork works with Hetres and Tektro R556 brakes.

Whether or not you want a whopping 80mm offset is another story.

I, for one, look forward to finding out what 20mm trail feels like!

Ryan

[Alistair Spence]

A few years go a I re-raked a fork to give 26mm of trail and didn't
like it at all. Too sensitive for my tastes, even with Hetre's and a
front load.

For comparisons sake, I find that I like 34-35mm trail for a rando
type bike with h'bar bag type loads.

Ymmv of course.

Alistair.

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[Brad]

One of the curiosities of human existence, or at least the bike
business
is why the pendulum swings so wildly.
It would seem to me that a move to more rake/ offset in forks that
went
back to a range that existed for maybe four decades- the 2" to 2 3/4"
rake- would have made more sense, but instead a huge
jump with these. Well, I guess one wouldn't have to worry about toe
clip overlap.

On Dec 4, 12:15 am, Alistair Spence <alspenc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A few years go a I re-raked a fork to give 26mm of trail and didn't
> like it at all. Too sensitive for my tastes, even with Hetre's and a
> front load.
>
> For comparisons sake, I find that I like 34-35mm trail for a rando
> type bike with h'bar bag type loads.
>
> Ymmv of course.
>
> Alistair.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 8:58 PM, rswatson <rswat...@me.com> wrote:
> > Electra Ticino Forks on sale:

> >http://store.electrabike.com/eSource/ecom/eSource/items/items-2-S0-lV...

[Ryan Watson]

I found a couple examples googling around:

http://tarckbike.com/node/16724

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bthelewis/4494584465/

On Dec 3, 2011, at 22:10, Joe Bunik <jbu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Wow, thanks- tempting! That guy in Vermont has used one on various
> Treks; I forget his name but he's on the flickr.
>
> =- Joe

[Ken Freeman]

One point is that fork design requirements include offset, tire clearance, AND brake accommodation combined with front-end ride height.  With any fork replacement you can end up with a change in head tube angle.  If you have a target for a specific range of trail and flop, you need to look at what values you'll get with the added offset combined with the difference in ride height.

I had a local shop owner who does frame repairs and has built a few frames make me a fork for my Trek 610 with 65 mm offset and which retains ride height.  It requires about 1.5 mm more brake reach to work with a 700c wheel, a spec I met with a Mafac Racer.  But if I try to go to 650 with that fork, I'll have to add canti posts - the reach requirement will be 80 to 90 mm, which is hard to meet with any caliper, AFAIK.

Or, I'd have to get yet another fork so the 650s could work with Mafacs or Weinmann 950s.

For now, I think 39 mm trail with 700x28c is just fine.  At proper ride height the bike geometry nearly matches that of the Pelican or the Toei as reviewed by Jan.  Luckily, the stays and brackets for my SKS P-35s are just long enough as it is.

Main point is, just bolting on a fork might not give you everything you need.

--
Ken Freeman
Ann Arbor, MI USA

[Greg Walton]

Ryan, do they have the fork geometry posted?  Where did you see the 80mm offset number?  Also interested in what the axle to crown (race) dimension is.

Greg

--

[Ryan Watson]

They list it as "Dramatic 80mm offset for plush retro ride" in the full paper and PDF versions of the catalog. 867g for the 1" non canti version. 

The Spring 2010 BQ test also shows 80mm offset on the geometry diagram. 

I get about 375mm from the axle to the brake bolt using a tape measure. 

Ryan

[Ryan Watson]

Update, that 375mm is to the brake bolt. Looks like another 8-10mm to the crown race. 

[erik]

Almost all of their other items are on sale also, most nearly half
price. Cranks, rings, deculars, hubs, fenders, stems etc.. Interesting
all this stuff is so similar to VO products. I wonder if it is made in
the same factories.

Erik Reese
Portland OR

On Dec 3, 8:58 pm, rswatson <rswat...@me.com> wrote:
> Electra Ticino Forks on sale:http://store.electrabike.com/eSource/ecom/eSource/items/items-2-S0-lV...

[Matt Churches]

Anyone have a steerer tube length for an uncut steerer one of these Electra forks. One of these might work for a possible winter project.

Matt Churches
Ann Arbor, MI

[Steve Chan]

If you're going to spend $100 for the fork, just drop another $75
and get the full frameset:

http://store.electrabike.com/eSource/ecom/eSource/TICINO_LUX_SINGLE-SPEED_CHROMOLY_STEEL_FRAME_SET__Bronze_Metallic__MEN_S_REGULAR/i_0_0_/_750000.aspx

It has track dropouts, which is kind of a PITA for geared riding -
on the other hand, they work fine with gearhubs.

The trail figure is just on the high end of neutral - the frame
angles are pretty slack, good for upright riders:
http://www.bikingindallas.com/wp-content/uploads/ticino-geometry.jpg

Actually, a pretty sweet deal on a nice frame for a recreational rider.

Steve

--
"Sow a thought, reap an action. Sow an action, reap a habit. Sow a
habit, reap a character. Sow a character, reap a destiny." - Samuel
Smiles

[Ryan Watson]

Great for a 650B conversion, too!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7556426@N06/5637972415/

Great as a cruiser/city bike. I tried front loading it with the Pass&Stow rack: Dreadful!

[Greg Walton]

Now I see why the fork has 80mm of offset -- with a slack 67 degree headtube, that gets you back to a highish 59mm of trail with a 28mm tire.  

The problem is that putting this fork on a 73 degree headtube nets 21mm of trail.  

Greg

[Greg Walton]

Ryan, I see you have the Ticino platform/spd pedals, how do you like them?

Greg

[Ryan Watson]

On Dec 5, 2011, at 12:08, Greg Walton <gwa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Now I see why the fork has 80mm of offset -- with a slack 67 degree headtube, that gets you back to a highish 59mm of trail with a 28mm tire.
>
> The problem is that putting this fork on a 73 degree headtube nets 21mm of trail.

Not a problem, a feature!
18mm with Hetres by my calculation.
I've got both a 1" and a 1-1/8 on the way. I'll let you know how it goes :-)

Ryan

[Steve Chan]

I just realized this morning that Ticino had those hammered 700c
fenders too, but by the time I went to look for them, they were sold
out. $30 for 700c hammered fenders - what a crazy deal!

Nobody seems to know anything about those hubs though - or else
they are keeping it quiet and buying them all...

The bar end levers are still available and a nice deal, so it looks
like the vultures haven't pulled *all* the tasty bits of flesh off the
Ticino carcass...

Steve

[Ryan Watson]

On Dec 5, 2011, at 12:13, Greg Walton <gwa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ryan, I see you have the Ticino platform/spd pedals, how do you like them?

I Didn't. They put my feet too far apart compared to the Shimano SPDs. Also they were too tight with Shimano cleats, and I like everything to be interchangeable. 

Otherwise great looking and seemingly well made. 

Ryan

[Harold Bielstein]

The new large flange hubs are absolutely beautiful! I have a set I'll be building up into a 650B wheel set.

Hal Bielstein
hkbie...@rap.midco.net

[Steve Chan]

Hal,
Thanks for the info. Just out of curiousity, how many bearings
does it use? The usual 3 bearings or do they use 4 bearings like some
of the higher end hubs that Novatec (among others sells).

It turns out that the Novatec F292SB uses 3 ball bearings and a
needle cartridge bearing - sounds pretty bombproof if the seals are
good, so I'm curious which Taiwanese guts are inside these gorgeous
hub shells.

Steve

[Harold Bielstein]

I don't know how many bearings the rear hub uses (at least 3) but it does tell me the bearings are sealed ceramic bearings. The hubs look like a reincarnation of Campy's Sheriff hubs with the star pattern. Here is some additional info about the hubs in the web: http://nihonmaru.blogspot.com/2010/03/more-on-electra-ticino-hf-hubs.html
And they come packaged in a neat little metal lunchbox. You remember taking your lunch to school in a lunchbox don't you -- no?

Hal Bielstein
hkbie...@rap.midco.net

[jaypea]

I have had on of those forks on this bike for about the last year or so. It has worked out quite well and seems very stable even with a very large load. I have found that with fenders I can only fit a 32mm.

 

https://picasaweb.google.com/118422391590751428084/DropBox?locked=true&gsessionid=bGR-8wKJHsOrB_2b6VEApg#5683067953840854322

 

James

 

 

[Ryan Watson]

Oh dear! The fork on my Ticino 1 can definitely handle a Hetre with plenty room for fenders. I had assumed (and told everyone on the list) that the ones they're selling separately were the same, and already ordered two of them. I'll check clearances and report to the list as soon as mine arrive. 
Your link gave me "page not found" btw.

Ryan

[Joe Bunik]

Ok, what?!? I asked Mr. Watson what the tubing decal on his fork blade
indicated, his answer was that it claimed '420' pedigree.

James yours seems to be '760'?

And when I first saw a Ticino on the floor at Clever Bikes in PDX a
couple years ago, it seems like it's '_19'???
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joe_bunik/4899663370/

Someone pulling our (fork) leg?
=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

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[Joe Bunik]

On 12/5/11, Steve Chan <sych...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just realized this morning that Ticino had those hammered 700c
> fenders too, but by the time I went to look for them, they were sold
> out. $30 for 700c hammered fenders - what a crazy deal!

FWIW (as you might discern in my photo, see previous post), I also
recall thinking at the time that the Ticino "hammered" fenders were a
little bit of an ugly knockoff compared to the actual Honjo (or
Lefol!) items...

[jaypea]

 

 

 

 

Here it is. Sorry about he link. It does in fact have a 760 sticker on it. If the forks in question are different (ie 420) and can accommodate Hetres all the better. By the way I just ordered two for myslef too. As for the trail this headtube is suppose to be 73 or so. I have not checked it. It is stable. I also have an rSogn. I can't tell a huge difference in handling on the front end between them with a bit of a load on them. The chainstay lengths are quite different tho and make the rSogn much more stable and comfortable.  

[Alex Wetmore]

I get a page not found error on your link.

 

Are you finding a max of 32-622 (700C) tires or 32-584 tires (650B)?  If it is 32-622 then a 42-584 should easily fit (which would match Ryan's experience).

 

alex

 

---

From: 65...@googlegroups.com [65...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of jaypea [jlpo...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 11:06 AM
To: 65...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [650B] Re: Super Low trail 650B-friendly forks 1" and 1-1/8", $100!

I have had on of those forks on this bike for about the last year or so. It has worked out quite well and seems very stable even with a very large load. I have found that with fenders I can only fit a 32mm.

 

https://picasaweb.google.com/118422391590751428084/DropBox?locked=true&gsessionid=bGR-8wKJHsOrB_2b6VEApg#5683067953840854322

 

James

 

 

--

[Ryan Watson]

My "420" fork (I assumed they were just trying to be clever and make a pot reference) is on a Ticino 1 frame. It's very hard to see on the tiny catalog pic, but it sure looks like the shiny replacement forks say 760. The first number is definitely a 7.

I'll be very disappointed if I can't fit at least a 38 in there. 

I may cannibalize that Ticino 1 for it's fork after all. 

Also, my 420 fork doesn't have as nice and low curve as the one in your pic. It looks like they made different forks for the high and low end Ticinos.

Ryan

On Dec 6, 2011, at 13:08, jaypea <jlpo...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

Here it is. Sorry about he link. It does in fact have a 760 sticker on it. If the forks in question are different (ie 420) and can accommodate Hetres all the better. By the way I just ordered two for myslef too. As for the trail this headtube is suppose to be 73 or so. I have not checked it. It is stable. I also have an rSogn. I can't tell a huge difference in handling on the front end between them with a bit of a load on them. The chainstay lengths are quite different tho and make the rSogn much more stable and comfortable.  

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[Joe Bunik]

Electra bikes just so happens to list a (760) area code (Vista, CA) on
their web site...

On 12/6/11, Ryan Watson <rswa...@me.com> wrote:
> My "420" fork (I assumed they were just trying to be clever and make a pot
> reference) is on a Ticino 1 frame. It's very hard to see on the tiny catalog
> pic, but it sure looks like the shiny replacement forks say 760. The first
> number is definitely a 7.
> I'll be very disappointed if I can't fit at least a 38 in there.
> I may cannibalize that Ticino 1 for it's fork after all.
> Also, my 420 fork doesn't have as nice and low curve as the one in your pic.
> It looks like they made different forks for the high and low end Ticinos.
>
> Ryan
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 6, 2011, at 13:08, jaypea <jlpo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Here it is. Sorry about he link. It does in fact have a 760 sticker on it.
>> If the forks in question are different (ie 420) and can accommodate Hetres
>> all the better. By the way I just ordered two for myslef too. As for the
>> trail this headtube is suppose to be 73 or so. I have not checked it. It
>> is stable. I also have an rSogn. I can't tell a huge difference in
>> handling on the front end between them with a bit of a load on them. The
>> chainstay lengths are quite different tho and make the rSogn much more
>> stable and comfortable.
>>

[Steve Chan]

Its amazing all the awful, awful hacks that your mind can concoct
around a cheap, shiny bike part.
For example, if your head tube angle is too steep to get a
reasonable trail figure with this crazy 80mm offset fork, you can add
a 1" bar spin spacer between the fork and your headtube:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EIGHTHINCH-HEADTUBE-EXTENDER-BARSPIN-BAR-SPIN-1-SL-/370231090643?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56337e1dd3

What was the rule of thumb? 1" is around 1 degree? So if you have a
72 degree HTA, you can get it to 71 degrees and around 30mm trail with
Hetres.

Actually, I think it is more useful for retrofitting this fork on a
rigid 80's mountain bike, with 395mm axle to crown measurements. Drop
this in there and you should be able to land your trail figure in the
sweet spot for a Hetre sized tire.

The fork metastasized into an 80's frame and a barspin spacer...

Steve

--

[Ryan Watson]

Now you're thinking!
How about putting a seatpost on the end of the steer tube and making a low trail unicycle? ;-)
Would using a setback post change the head tube angle?

[Steve Chan]

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Ryan Watson <rswa...@me.com> wrote:
> Now you're thinking!
> How about putting a seatpost on the end of the steer tube and making a low trail unicycle? ;-)

Low trail unicycle? Where are you going to mount the porteur rack?

Maybe one of these?
http://www.cup-service.net/wp-content/produkte/bauchladen1.jpg

Steve

[Matt Churches]

I ordered two of the Electra forks for a future build. One was put
into quick service and built up into a Porteur bike. Just because of
the ease of finding wheels I built it as 700c. Eventually I might try
650b on the bike with some different brakes. The 700c x 32 Panaracer
tires plus fenders in the fork are a very tight fit. The steerer tube
is super long at almost 12 inches long. I used a 84' Schwinn LeTour in
a very small 26" frame size. With the published spec of 72.5 deg head
tube on paper it comes to 26mm trail. With side pull brakes, tires,
and the fenders the fit is very tight.

So far it has only one short ride to the store for some refreshments.
The unloaded ride up to the store didn't feel too bad after adjusting
to the steering. The loaded ride home (18 pk of beer in cans) it was
really weird starting out, but once moving rode fine. With the winter
coming more than it has now, I don't know how much I will get out on
it. I hope I will get a few more rides before the snow really flies.

Here is the result http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmatt17073/6535661037/

Matt Churches
Ann Arbor, MI

On Dec 7, 2:49 am, Steve Chan <sychan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Ryan Watson <rswat...@me.com> wrote:
> > Now you're thinking!
> > How about putting a seatpost on the end of the steer tube and making a low trail unicycle? ;-)
>
>    Low trail unicycle? Where are you going to mount the porteur rack?
>

>    Maybe one of these?http://www.cup-service.net/wp-content/produkte/bauchladen1.jpg

[Fred Blasdel]

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 8:48 PM, Matt Churches <chur...@msu.edu> wrote:

With the published spec of 72.5 deg head tube on paper it comes to 26mm trail.

In the picture the STA looks to be around 72°, with the HTA is at least 2-3° steeper than that

[Matt Churches]

It is on a dual legged kickstand and the rear wheel is off the ground an inch or so in the pic. The published spec of 72.5 was roughly confirmed by my cheapy angle finder.

--

[Fred Blasdel]

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 9:41 PM, Matt Churches <chur...@msu.edu> wrote:

It is on a dual legged kickstand and the rear wheel is off the ground an inch or so in the pic. The published spec of 72.5 was roughly confirmed by my cheapy angle finder.

Is the STA around 69° then? It certainly looks a good bit slacker than the HTA in the picture.

If you take a good side photo, you can use the ruler tool in photoshop to compare the tube angles against the level of the wheel axles.

[Shane Schaetz]

only 3 years later...

anyway, i bought one of these forks back when they were dirt cheap. today i decided to install it on a 650b conversion of mine. 650x42 tires barely fit and forget about 52mm fenders (VO zepplin) unless you want to crimp them bigtime and even then...i think shaping and coverage would be an issue.

i'm going to ride the bike w/o fenders in the front for a while to truly test out low trail and see if my bike would benefit from a new fork or re-raking.

[Ryan Watson]

I've still got my two Ticino forks that I never got around to using, so I still don't know what 20mm trail feels like. Have you ridden it yet?

Too bad about the clearance, maybe try Lierres or something else a little narrower? I had a 650B Ticino 1 for a while and the clearance with Hetres didn't seem that bad, but I wasn't using fenders. 

If anybody wants one of the forks, let me know and I'll make you a deal!

Ryan

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[Justin]

Hey Ryan-
I might be interested. Hit me up off list

-J

[Steve Cole]

I'm also interested please contact me.  Thanks

[Shane Schaetz]

I am selling a 1" canti version of this fork:

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/bop/4754022231.html

The canti version has WAY more clearance, and can fit 650x42 + fenders easily. If interested, $65 shipped. I have the original box. 

I'm fairly certain you could use Tektro 559 brakes WITH the canti bosses left on, but you could also snap/grind/cut them off.