1978ish Fuji America as a conversion?

[j glenn]

I've got a line on what looks to be a 57cm 1978 Fuji America.  I've already got a clean 58cm 1980ish S12-s that I was going to build up.  My assumption  is that they have the same geometry but the America has double butted tubing, and will be a much "better" bike to  invest the time  and effort to do a full randoesque build on.  Any thoughts? Thanks, Woody

[Eric Daume]

I had an '81 America that I was able to fit 42mm Hetres on, but it was very tight at the chainstays:

https://bikingtoplay.blogspot.com/2018/04/new-bike-1981-fuji-america.html  

On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 5:57 AM 'j glenn' via 650b <65...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I've got a line on what looks to be a 57cm 1978 Fuji America.  I've already got a clean 58cm 1980ish S12-s that I was going to build up.  My assumption  is that they have the same geometry but the America has double butted tubing, and will be a much "better" bike to  invest the time  and effort to do a full randoesque build on.  Any thoughts? Thanks, Woody

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[j glenn]

Here's the picture I've got. Most likely buying sight unseen from non bike folks.  They measured it at 22", so I'm guessing 1978 from the cable clips, reflectors and 57cm size that year.  I think the clearances are bigger on the pre 1980 bikes.

[Tom Palmer]

Hi Woody,
I have a 76 America and it makes a very nice conversion. I had mine with Hetres and fenders. The top tube was longer than same seat tube size Fuji Finest so I swapped the parts over to it and enjoy it very much. The America rides great for me. I am planning on building it back up with upright bars and probably 650b conversion again or selling it as I have 4 old Fuji’s.
Tom Palmer
Twin Lake, MI

[Brad]

I would compare the fork rake between the Fuji America and the S-12-S.   The forks on the S-10 or 12-S are very well suited to low trail applications with front bags.  I am not sure that the Fuji America has as much rake.   It all depends on what your goal is.   You could, of course, built up the Fuji America and have the fork from the S-12-S built up as a mix and match option, particularly if you use a common headset for both.

On Saturday, January 11, 2020 at 5:57:53 AM UTC-5, j glenn wrote:

[Brad]

I should note that I am referring  to the older 70's models of the S-1x-S series.  It appears that by 1982 the geometry of the America and the S-12-S Ltd. were identical.

[j glenn]

I thought i read some where that the 1982 and newer frames had less tire clearence.

[Brent Avery]

I converted a 1981 S12S and other than using the Dia Compe 750 centre pull brakes had no issues fitting fenders ( V.O. ) along with the 42mm Hetres. Great riding and quite stable, so much so that in some ways I prefer it to the Rawland Stag I also use.  Even with the straight gauge main tubes ( cro moly ) and Hi Ten stays and forks it still offers a smooth ride, no doubt the wider tires help but still, Fuji knew how to build a great frame regardless so I would think that the America would be better still.  The fork rake on the S12S, at least from around 1978 to 1981 was 60 mm and so offers nice low trail numbers. I have loaded up the front bag with up to 10 pounds and it was still manageable, a bit slower responding to steering inputs at those weights but not bad either. 

    There is just enough clearance for the fenders though very close to the inner fork blade area but still alright, no problems at all with the rear fender. I had the rear spacing increased from 126mm to 135mm to accommodate the Shimano 9 speed 11 - 34 cassette, using Campagnolo Ergo shifters with a Shimano rear derailleur. Here is an image of the bike.

Brent Avery

Burnaby, B.C., Canada.

[Brad]

You may want to use the fork from the S-12-S on the America frame.  I am pretty sure the S-12-S has more fork rake.

On Saturday, January 11, 2020 at 5:57:53 AM UTC-5, j glenn wrote:

[Brent Avery]

Hope this image is larger:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/glzGuCG.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/fXXE94Z.jpg[/img]

Brent Avery

Burnaby, B.C., Canada 

[David Cummings]

What amazes me the most is not just that you had room for 42’s, or that you had room for 42’s AND fenders, but that you STILL had room for a pump behind seat post!!

David “pump it up!” In MT

[j glenn]

Still kicking myself for missing out on that America. 

[Matt Thomas]

I am in the process of converting a 57 cm '78 America.  I have 38mm tires on it right now.  There is about 5 mm clearance on each side at the chain stays and 6 mm at the fork with plenty of room at the seat stays.  Also, the Tektro r559 provide sufficient reach.

With minimal experience riding different bikes, and only one ride on this one so far, I can't speak too much to the ride quality.  I certainly don't feel let down in any way.

Matt

[Dave Feldman]

In my experience with Fuji product in the 80's, the S12S and America models all had long fork offsets and low trail handling, but Americas had shorter chain stays, the one that I've seen converted to 650b needed cutouts and a dent (to clear front derailleur arm) to fit wide metal fenders.  Fuji didn't publish geometry but my educated guess is that the America had chain stays @42.5cm and S12's were more like 44.  both models had deeply indented chain stays.

David Feldman

Vancouver, WA

[Ken Barker]

Found in a series of tubes.

[Tom Palmer]

Thanks Ken! Very interesting. Do you know what year this represents? My Finest must considered a MK1 because the numbers are a bit different. Mostly my older version has more fork rake.
Tom Palmer
Twin Lake, MI USA

[Ken Barker]

Tom,

Page 12 https://classicfuji.posthaven.com/fuji-dealers-technical-guide

kb

[Tom Palmer]

Thanks again Ken!
Very cool. Both of my Finest and America are a bit earlier (72&76) and the geometries are much different. Finest has short top tube and America long top tube on my older bikes. I think my finest has more fork rake too. Both of by bikes are great 650b conversions. The Finest fits 48mm actual tires and fenders.

[Teague Scott]

Tom, let's see pics of that Finest! That's some pretty incredible clearance!

- Teague in Boise

[Tom Palmer]

Here are pics with the G one speeds and no fenders and with the fenders but with a Hetre. The fenders are PB Alux 650b. I had to crimp a bit at the fork crown, but still cleared the 48mm G one Speeds.

Braking with the Dia comp 750s was good but not great with thin line salmon pads. I am working on some Sheldon drop bolts and some 610s to see if it will be great braking that I have with the 610s on a 700c wheel.

These old Fujis are crazy fun.

Tom

[Rob H.]

Tom, that's a great looking bike and amazing clearance. What size is it and do you know your inseam/PBH? I'm asking mostly because those old Finests seem to have significantly shorter top tubes than seat tubes. How do you find the fit?

Rob Howell in Glen Ridge, NJ

[Tom Palmer]

Hi Rob,
I do not remember my PBH. I have 31” inseam and 5’ 9”. The top tube is shorter on the early Finests. Seat tube is 22.25 C to C and the top tube is 21.75. I have flexibility issues and the Finest works great for drop bars for me with bars at seat height. The 76 America is the opposite, 22.375 seat tube and 23” top tube. The plan with this was 650b and Soma Oxford bars. I haven’t done anything with is for a couple years and may be time to move on to someone who will ride it.
Tom

[Brent Avery]

That explains the differences between the S10S / S12S and the America regarding clearance as relating to chain stay length. At least with a high quality 42mm tire the S12S is nice and responsive and predictably stable. In fact I enjoy riding it so much that I think I will keep on the lookout for a S12S Limited from 1980 or '81, as they have the half chromed rear stays as well as double butted main tubes instead of straight gauge in the non Limited version.

   Of course, the down side of this is trying to find one in 56 cm - I have no doubt there are lower numbers out there regarding the Limited. Knowing how comfortable they are I would prefer it over the America's shorter chain stays, I do not think one could realistically squeeze 42mm tires in. 

 Quite certain after 1981  clearance and fork rake were reduced, which is why I  suggest 1980 or 1981 though 1978 and 1979 should be fine as well.

[woode...@yahoo.com]

Well I found one.   A 1980 frame. Its paint is kind of rough and the chain stay chrome has already been painted over.  So I think I'll be having it refinished, which opens the door for  frame work and added braze-ons.  Its been suggested that this bike is as worthy as any for the the full treatment. I'm getting about 50mm of clearance at the chain stays and fork, and I believe the fork rake is 60mm.   Any thoughts as to weather this frame would be a good candidate for brazed on center pulls, ect, ect?

[daxo potato]

we love the old fujis!

my only advice is, do a half arsed conversion: put on 650b's and get at least one functioning brake and see if you love the ride. THEN dish out for the repaint and extra brazes. no sense spending that kind of ca$h on a bike you won't enjoy.

-dave of a half-dozen fuji project bieks in NY

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[Alex I]

Looks awesome and like a fun project! Dave has some good advice methinks.

Alex, green with envy in CO

[Michael Wong]

I did a 27 to 650 conversion I found it very difficult to get it to brake to my satisfaction.There's just so much lost leverage with the smaller wheel.

If you have 2nd thoughts on brazing on that iconic frame, see if you can find (or make) some brake drop adapters. I think it would have solved for me if I could find both a front and rear.

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[pcb....@gmail.com]

These frame geometry deets are for 1978 models.

Paul Brodek

Hillsdale, NJ USA

[pcb....@gmail.com]

Saw this on another forum, too.

I agree that first trying a quickie 650b setup ride to make sure you'll be happy _before_ going to torches is a wise thought.

In terms of brakes, t'were it me, if I were doing brake bz-ons I'd lean more towards cantis than centerpulls. Get them spaced to a modern standard and you've got tons of canti caliper choices. Go with a centerpull setup and though you'll get better stiffness in the arms, you're still going to be limited in caliper choice. You'll still need arms long enough to give you tire/fender clearance up top.

My '78 America is eagerly awaiting your choices!

Paul Brodek

Hillsdale, NJ USA

[fordb...@gmail.com]

It's a good thing there aren't any bicycle wheels smaller than 650b !

Ford in Ghent, NY

On Thursday, May 13, 2021 at 12:24:16 PM UTC-4 michael...@gmail.com wrote:

I did a 27 to 650 conversion I found it very difficult to get it to brake to my satisfaction.There's just so much lost leverage with the smaller wheel.

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[woode...@yahoo.com]

There are plenty more smaller wheels to choose from. Sheldon Brown has all the info..      Tangentially, my son is riding a 20" bmx right now.  for his first "road bike"  I have a Fuji "junior" frame that takes a 24" road wheel/tire.  I did a mock up and a 24" mountain rim and every thing looks good to run at least 38mm slicks.   

[Michael Wong]

SOMA makes a low trail 650b fork.

The AC is a bit short, so you will undoubtedly be steepening your angles. You'd also have to run discs front and something else rear.

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[woode...@yahoo.com]

I have the 1" threadless caliper brake version of that fork, for the Trek 400 that i should to be finishing instead of buying more bikes.......