Converting Soma Double Cross to 650b-frame needs repairing anyway

[Andy Beichler]

I have an early Soma Double Cross made from Reynolds 631.  I broke the drive side rear dropout about 4 years ago. The cost of a repair seems like a fools errand since I could get any number of nice vintage steel frames for the same price as a repair.  However, the fact that I can't seem to dump the frame has me convinced that I should just go ahead with the repair.  I recognize that this is a heart and not a head decision and I have made my peace with it. Since I will be sending it off for repair anyway, I am thinking of having the cantilever posts re positioned for 650b.  Is there any reason (besides cost) why this seems like a bad idea?  The bottom bracket should not be a problem since the drop is only 66mm.  Everything else on this bike is pretty standard in terms of geometry.  I appreciate any feedback.  I definitely have not made up my mind yet.

[wg...@yahoo.com]

Andy, I have toyed with doing this on my doublecross as well.  Let me know if you do it and how it turns out.  May push me over the edge and finally get it done.

geoff s

arlington, ma

[Andy Bailey Goodell]

I had an old DC, but due to clearance and not wanting to spend more money than the frame was worth, I held out for a used Sogn.

On Sun, Nov 11, 2018, 9:48 AM Andy Beichler <andyan...@windstream.net wrote:

I have an early Soma Double Cross made from Reynolds 631.  I broke the drive side rear dropout about 4 years ago. The cost of a repair seems like a fools errand since I could get any number of nice vintage steel frames for the same price as a repair.  However, the fact that I can't seem to dump the frame has me convinced that I should just go ahead with the repair.  I recognize that this is a heart and not a head decision and I have made my peace with it. Since I will be sending it off for repair anyway, I am thinking of having the cantilever posts re positioned for 650b.  Is there any reason (besides cost) why this seems like a bad idea?  The bottom bracket should not be a problem since the drop is only 66mm.  Everything else on this bike is pretty standard in terms of geometry.  I appreciate any feedback.  I definitely have not made up my mind yet.

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[Brad]

I would be interested in seeing images of the broken dropout.  I had this happen once on a frame and it rouses my curiosity.

On Sunday, November 11, 2018 at 9:48:46 AM UTC-5, Andy Beichler wrote:

[Mark Bulgier]

Andy Beichler wrote:

>  I broke the drive side rear dropout about 4 years ago. The cost of a repair seems like a fools errand [snip]

Have you had the repair estimated by a good repair guy yet?  Often the crack can be v-notched both sides and then TIG welded to look pretty nice (just don't look too close).  Done quickly it hardly burns any paint, so non-picky types might just hit that spot with some primer and not repaint the whole bike.  The TIG repair can even be stronger than new -- it's not likely to break there again.

Where U at?  I encourage people to put their town in their sig, so we can suggest good repair guys near you.  Unless you have that sorted already.

Mark Bulgier

Seattle 

[Justin, Oakland]

I miss my 631 DC. I would have kept it had I been able to do an easy conversion. Looking back I should have kept it and been less quick to get rid of it.
I would move the rear bosses, get a new dropout and find a high rake low trail 650b fork.

-J

[Eric Daume]

Why not convert it to disc when it’s repaired?

Eric 

On Sunday, November 11, 2018, Andy Beichler <andyan...@windstream.net> wrote:

I have an early Soma Double Cross made from Reynolds 631.  I broke the drive side rear dropout about 4 years ago. The cost of a repair seems like a fools errand since I could get any number of nice vintage steel frames for the same price as a repair.  However, the fact that I can't seem to dump the frame has me convinced that I should just go ahead with the repair.  I recognize that this is a heart and not a head decision and I have made my peace with it. Since I will be sending it off for repair anyway, I am thinking of having the cantilever posts re positioned for 650b.  Is there any reason (besides cost) why this seems like a bad idea?  The bottom bracket should not be a problem since the drop is only 66mm.  Everything else on this bike is pretty standard in terms of geometry.  I appreciate any feedback.  I definitely have not made up my mind yet.

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[Andy Beichler]

I am in Berea, KY.  There aren't any repair guys that I know of.  Alex Meade used to live up the road in Lexington, but he moved up north, I think to Massachusetts.  He priced putting new dropouts in and kindly suggested I use the money to purchase something else.  I have taken his advice so far but given that I am attached to this frame, I am reconsidering doing it again.  I suppose I could just get the repair done and see if it lasts and then consider getting the cantilever posts later.  It has decent clearance now.  I appreciate the heads up on tig welding it.  I will definitely look into it.

[Andy Beichler]

I have not heard good things about converting non disc frames to disc based on the strength of the seatstays and chainstays.  

On Sunday, November 11, 2018 at 5:47:35 PM UTC-5, Eric Daume wrote:

Why not convert it to disc when it’s repaired?

Eric 

On Sunday, November 11, 2018, Andy Beichler <andyan...@windstream.net> wrote:

I have an early Soma Double Cross made from Reynolds 631.  I broke the drive side rear dropout about 4 years ago. The cost of a repair seems like a fools errand since I could get any number of nice vintage steel frames for the same price as a repair.  However, the fact that I can't seem to dump the frame has me convinced that I should just go ahead with the repair.  I recognize that this is a heart and not a head decision and I have made my peace with it. Since I will be sending it off for repair anyway, I am thinking of having the cantilever posts re positioned for 650b.  Is there any reason (besides cost) why this seems like a bad idea?  The bottom bracket should not be a problem since the drop is only 66mm.  Everything else on this bike is pretty standard in terms of geometry.  I appreciate any feedback.  I definitely have not made up my mind yet.

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[Andy Beichler]

I'll try to take a pic tomorrow.  The tab on the dropout snapped right where it enters the chainstay slot.  I got lucky because I had ridden this bike offroad a lot but it was just doing commuter duty when it broke.  The rear end just got a bit loose like a flat tire.

[William Henderson]

I did it to my Atlantis, zero issues. You’ll need a new fork, but a competent builder can easily reinforce the chain and seat stays.

[Mark Bulgier]

Andy Beichler wrote:

> I'll try to take a pic tomorrow.  The tab on the dropout snapped right where it enters the chainstay slot.  

Do get us the pics when you get a chance, but from your description I think there's a good chance this cannot be welded.  Slotted chainstay usually means brazed.  Brazing filler (e.g. brass) is like kryptonite for welding.  If there's brass near the weld, the brass vaporizes and makes the steel weld puddle all frothy and brittle.

A good welder can weld maybe 3 mm away from the nearest brass, but it sounds like you have brass right adjacent to the crack.  So you're probably looking at replacing the dropout.

When a replacement right dropout with the exact same geometry is not available, then you usually have to replace both dropouts to have them match, geometry-wise, which is necessary to have the wheel sit straight in the frame.

Alex Meade knows his stuff so I think it's safe to say that his advice was correct.

-Mark

 

[Brad]

I had a Gitane Pro that cracked in the same spot.  I think that using a rotofile cleaning up the brazing can sometimes result in thinning the dropout at a critical point by accident.  Something to look for.  Maybe put some calipers on the broken one at the crack and on the other side to compare thickness.

[Andy Beichler]

Not sure if you can see it clearly in these pics but there is a thin layer of brass on the chainstay side.

 

[Mark Bulgier]

Yeah the TIG weld repair I mentioned earlier will not be possible -- you're looking at a dropout replacement.

I assume your frame is beyond the 3-year warranty, but even so, you might want to ask Soma who does their warranty repairs -- if any.  They may not repair frames, they may just replace a warranty frame with a whole new frame.  But if they have a USA repair shop, they may have those dropouts available, which could be cheaper than replacing both dropouts.  Replacing both is done when there's no single right-side dropout available that matches the one on the Left.  They don't have to match exactly, but they need to put the axle in the same spot relative to the slots in the stays.

-Mark

[Andy Beichler]

Replacing both dropouts is what Alex Meade recommended. He searched around with he suppliers and could not find a close enough match.  BTW-he is a super nice guy and we ended up chatting for about 30 minutes about non bike stuff.  

It is definitely beyond the 3 year warranty. It was about ten years old when it broke.  I contacted Soma just to see if they had any kind of warranty in place and they were totally uninterested.  They suggested that I replace the frame. I don't blame them for that response.