Ultradynamic CAVA Race - a new fast 650b x 48 tire?

[Pat Smith]

Just got linked to these through Radavist, looks like a nice tire! I look forward to seeing some reviews.

https://ultradynamico.com/products/cava-race

Patrick

Washington, DC

[Andy Bailey Goodell]

Looks very squishy with that tread. That would be great for certain rides off-road, but I wonder how that feels on relatively smooth pavement. I had heard the brand but not looked at the line before. Looks like 3 tires of the same tread, but different compounds and sidewall thickness options. Neato.

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[matthew shroyer]

Looks great, with those side walls though i wish they would state an optimal rim ID. The profile looks great on whatever ID rim they have them on in the pictures, I don't know if i would want to go wider, at least on the grey "race" tire.

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[Jack Keoshian]

Apparently Ultradynamico is the Rapha of bicycle tires? From Ultradynamico's description of themself: “We design tires that will carry you beyond cul de sac country backroads and into a galactic-premium-ground-gravel realm of enlightenment.  Tires for the CONNOISSEUR.”  At $85 / tire these are clearly much, much too epic for my humble non-connoisseur riding.

All their tire models (all two) are 650B x 47.99. Perfect for any bike where 48's are a smidge too big, plus it's just too damb epicly cute!

Some fun reading at https://ultradynamico.com/pages/about. This caught my eye (or stuck in my craw while tickling my funny bone):

It’s no secret that tire choice fundamentally dictates the aesthetic of your build and this choice is the ultimate expression of performance and beauty. We all know your bicycle is an extension of your personality, your riding style a window into your soul. In a world paralyzed by dull and mediocre options we invite you to choose dynamically.

"Skip a few meals and buy our tires, you deserve it.”

Well shoot, who knew that tires are "the ultimate expression of performance and beauty". And all these years I thought it was handlebar tape, duh!  But, apparently I deserve these tires more than I deserve 3 squares a day for the next 3-5 days. But hey, they're not just bicycle tires, they're a lifestyle!

The two founders of Ultradynamico claim a "a combined fifty years of tread awareness between them". I'm not entirely sure what that means, but I am sure I was aware of my bicycle tires having tread by the time I was 8 or 9, so apparently I have more years of "tread awareness" under my belt than both of the Ultradynamico founders combined. Go me!

Is it a bad sign when a new tire company offers more models of company apparel swag than models of tire? $30 tee-shirts, $20 cotton/poly blend caps, and cute li'l $3 patches ... The profit margin on those $30 tees must be truly epic!

If Compass/RH tires are just too 2017 and soullessly pedestrian for your riding and lifestyle then Ultradynamico may be an option to explore. For me, I suspect I lack the appropriate "nexus of function and style", and facial hair, and funding, to take full advantage of the Ultradynamico tire lifestyle. For now I'm standing pat with my Schwalbe G-One Speed Evo's, which are pretty round and roll OK and didn't require any meals be skipped to afford.

-Jack "you kids get off my lawn" K.

Raleigh, NC

[Etan Heller]

I think the joke went over your head.

[satanas]

These look to be the same folks as Crust, hence the similar sense of humour. Crust has the tyres on their site, and of course is associated with Bene. ;-)

[Jack Keoshian]

Despite a rather full understanding of irony and dry humor, yah I don't get it. Or maybe it's just not all that funny? Though I will agree that $85 bicycle tires of unknown origins are rather humorous. I suppose one should expect to pay something for all the wacky fun and humor these tires provide.

-Jack

[Dan Vee]

Panaracer is the unknown origin

[rcnute]

#tryin' too hard

Ryan

[matthew shroyer]

I just want to confess... with the way the bike industry is at the moment... wait till the end of the following season and you will find excellent 80 dollar tires for 25 bucks. still... though i like where ultradynamico is going, I don't have the spread to invest in them outright, but given that there is any left, I will pick up their "at cost" leavings 8 months from now... like i just did with my 25 dollar onza's. 

Does panaracer make all their tires in JP, and pay their workers fair wages??? If, that is the case... well... then i could probably justify the price. But for me at the moment (and in the western world), bicycles are a lux item and you are mostly buying TIME and IDEALS.

On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 4:55 PM Dan Vee <dane...@gmail.com> wrote:

Panaracer is the unknown origin

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[Etan Heller]

Yes, all the Panaracer tires are made in Japan. I'm assuming the wages are decent although I don't know for sure. Japan has good labor laws but also a cultural problem with long work hours.

These tires are targeted at people buying boutique or custom framesets in the $1200-3000 range. What's another $170 on tires? I only ride old bikes so my budget is considerably lower, but I don't mind spending $50-70 on really nice tires as it makes the ride much better. $85 is a little much. I'm surprised they actually got it that low in the presumably tiny quantity they ordered from Panaracer.

[Steve Palincsar]

Aside from the prose, I think the real question is "Is there a reason to buy their tires rather than a Rene Herse offering in the same size?"  

On 11/18/19 5:38 PM, Etan Heller wrote:

Yes, all the Panaracer tires are made in Japan. I'm assuming the wages are decent although I don't know for sure. Japan has good labor laws but also a cultural problem with long work hours.

These tires are targeted at people buying boutique or custom framesets in the $1200-3000 range. What's another $170 on tires? I only ride old bikes so my budget is considerably lower, but I don't mind spending $50-70 on really nice tires as it makes the ride much better. $85 is a little much. I'm surprised they actually got it that low in the presumably tiny quantity they ordered from Panaracer.

---

Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[Stephen Poole]

I personally would rather support Matt at Crust, but am not likely to ever pay $85USD for tyres from any source. Panaracer branded tyres can be had for much less money, as can many others ex-Europe. YMMV.

Later,

Stephen

[Randall Daniels]

The tires are $85, whatever humor was in the cheeky marketing and tone falls flat at that price.

[Robert Gardner]

Soooooooooo has anyone tried them or is this an ol’ grump session? 

Compass are like 65 and they sell a ton of stuff so there is probably an economy of scale argument there. 

Any actual people actually ridden them to comment? 

- Robert in DC

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 18, 2019, at 7:08 PM, Randall Daniels <randal...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Andy Bailey Goodell]

On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 7:37 PM Robert Gardner <robert.har...@gmail.com> wrote:

Compass are like 65

Since the Cavas are "Zero sidewall protection" level of supple, I can only assume they are RH Ultralight comparable unless someone has tried them to say otherwise.

2 Cavas shipped = $177.61 west coast, $185 east coast.

650B x 48 Switchback Hill TC $71.00 – $89.00 - 2 Ultralights = $205.12 shipped to Seattle, about $213 to the east coast

Still too rich for my taste when I'm only commuting, but when I ride/rode brevets, I didn't mind a premium for high end tires. Most of my tires come from these email lists when the price is right and the wear is minimal.

Andy

[John Guild]

Oh, it’s just a bit of silliness and whimsy. I’ll stick with my R Herse tires, but I appreciate some ad copy that pokes a bit of fun at how seriously we all take our tires. I enjoy the levity.

I have had RH 28s, 32s, 35s, 42s and 44s on my bikes. What’s an extra 6 bucks at that rate?

[jack loudon]

I am looking for a tire this size but the glib prose is off-putting to me. Clearly it's directed at some other demographic (like people half my age) but even those people presumably want real information on weight, tread thickness, puncture protection etc.  I get that 'Ultradynamico' just trying to have a little fun (and maybe poke fun at the ponderous pseudoscience on some tire websites), but they're asking people to spend spend serious money on tires without much real information.  Also, I've been told that colored tires don't wear as well as black, but maybe that's no longer true.  

Jack

On Monday, November 18, 2019 at 11:02:56 AM UTC-8, Pat Smith wrote:

[Brett Callahan]

Has anyone actually tried these tires yet? I'd be very interested to read a ride report if anyone can compare to Compass offerings or the fast Schwalbe stuff! (The impressions of ad copy are fun, too)

[Amir Avitzur]

for $85 you get a beautiful tire  ...   and the founders get to quaff their hair at the finest salons.

I'll wait till the the tires make it into on-line outlets, where the price will have to be more competitive. 

Amir

BTW: What's with the retro Ritchey look ?

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Amir Avitzur
R"G Israel

[matthew shroyer]

Jack, colored tires lack carbon black, so yes they will wear faster, but will most likely be a softer grippier compound. I imagine that is why the "race" tire is colored and the rest are black.   

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[Stevef]

I like the looks of them.  They have a minimalist micro-knob tread not unlike Schwalbe G-one all'rounders, and (presumably) a light casing similar to that of Compass tires.  Yes, the prose is a mite cute and the price a bit dear, but I'd consider them when I wear out my Switchback Hills.  (or if they went on sale)  I'd favor the black sidewalled version, which evidently feature some puncture protection.  Steve

On Monday, November 18, 2019 at 2:02:56 PM UTC-5, Pat Smith wrote:

[Brad]

I am glad some one else types sound a like words like I do.  The image of the founders drinking, indeed gulping, their hair almost sent coffee up my nose.

On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 3:12:16 AM UTC-5, Amir Avitzur wrote:

for $85 you get a beautiful tire  ...   and the founders get to quaff their hair at the finest salons.

I'll wait till the the tires make it into on-line outlets, where the price will have to be more competitive. 

Amir

BTW: What's with the retro Ritchey look ?

On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 9:03 PM Pat Smith <pbsm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just got linked to these through Radavist, looks like a nice tire! I look forward to seeing some reviews.

https://ultradynamico.com/products/cava-race

Patrick

Washington, DC

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[William Lindsay]

It's kind of reassuring that the 650B tire market is so healthy that we can complain and whine about new high-end offerings being too expensive and having marketing language that we find annoying.  It wasn't too long ago we were begging for ANY other options, and we were tempted to hoard the tires we liked, no matter the price.  Now we can sit back and say "maybe I'll try those when they go on sale".  That's a pretty good place to be!

p.s. I learned about the existence of Ultradynamico when I saw them on floor bikes at The Service Course in Girona, Spain, which definitely established them as boutique tires in my consciousness.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, November 18, 2019 at 11:02:56 AM UTC-8, Pat Smith wrote:

[Bill M.]

On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 12:12:16 AM UTC-8, Amir Avitzur wrote:

for $85 you get a beautiful tire  ...   and the founders get to quaff their hair at the finest salons.

If they are quaffing hair instead of ale, I would seriously question their good sense.  Just as if they were to try to coif a tankard of said ale.

Bill

Who married an English teacher and wound up correcting her spelling in Stockton, CA, and doesn't mean to be snarky...

 

[Jan Heine]

You are right, the 650B world is quite healthy. Long gone are the days when people told you "Choose 26" wheels, because with 650B, you won't be able to get tires/rims/etc. in the future." Now the situation is reversed!

Several people have suggested that the new tires might be very similar in their specs and performance to our Rene Herse tires. Perhaps this results from a misunderstanding of how we work with our suppliers: We collaborate with Panaracer to develop tires based on our ideas and our testing. The resulting specs and know-how are our property, and not available to other companies. It's just like our cranks, which are made in a factory that also makes high-end parts for several well-known companies, but we don't have access to their technology, and vice versa.

Ultradynamico don't say much about their spec, but they list a weight of 490 g for their semi-knobby Rose tire. Our Standard Casing Switchback Hill comes in at 478 g, while our dual-purpose knobby Juniper Ridge weighs 505 g. Their semi-knobby falls right in between, indicating that it uses a casing that, while not identical, probably uses similar materials as our Standard casings. For comparison, our Extralights are 60-65 g lighter, depending on the model.

I can only wish Ultradynamico the best of luck. The 650B tire market isn't huge, and the OEM makers with their big marketing budgets are moving in to take over. It's hard to compete with that, but at least the new guys are trying a novel approach to marketing, rather than copy what others are already doing.

Jan Heine

Rene Herse Cycles

Reborn in the Cascade Mountains

www.renehersecycles.com

[Jeffrey Kane]

What Bill said. Let's look on the bright side here, people!

I rode the Rosé Race on a heinous "gravel bro" ride in PA called the Keystone Gravel just this past September. I knew I wanted knobs for the event but didn't think my well worn WTB ByWays would offer enough grip. I have a pair of SimWorks Homage but thought I'd want more volume. I have pair of B/G Rock n' Roads -- great knobs -- but again ... volume. I’m just finding it hard to go back to 40/42’s after enjoying the benefits of 46/48’s. 

So being a 58 year old man who can afford $85.00 tires at least once per season I thought about whether to go with a pair of Compass Juniper Ridge Endurance casing vs the Rosé Race. And it’s not that I uniformly believe that expensive tire = better quality. I liked my ByWay’s plenty and considered the lower priced Senduro’s as well But I decided to throw my hard earned $$$ at the new guy -- particularly since I've already generously supported Compass / Rene Hersé from practically day one (and I know that I'll likely snag a pair of the JR/E's next season anyway). 

I'm quite certain that those knobby Rosé's truly saved my life (no exaggeration) on everything from the super-steep shale strewn ATV trails to the rain soaked neck-breaking single track mud-slide jeep roads that they threw at us that day. I'm also quite sure the Juniper Ridge would have been a good choice for those conditions and I bet even the lower-priced WTB Senduro (or the Rock-N-Roads) would also have performed well. 

Lastly, I spent most of this past the summer re-falling in love with the Switchback Hill EL ... the CAVA looks interesting, but for me being mostly stuck on pavement in and out of NYC, it appears to fill a gap that I might not necessarily need on a daily basis.

I am a tire hoarder though, so you never know ...

[Patrick B. Smith]

Jeffery, thanks for the input, I think you're actually the first person to have tried a Ultradynamico tire in this thread! Also great praise for the Switchback Hill EL - I'm building up my first 650b bike right now (Black Mountain Road+) and strongly considered dropping the coin on the SH EL's until I found a screaming deal on a pair of Horizons. Like you I'm in a city and stuck on 95% pavement. I'll almost certainly be giving the SH tires a shot after I wear through the Horizons. 

Patrick in DC

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[Ford Bailey]

It looks good, though I'm not sold on tires other than black, as I don't think they have as much grip. As far as the price goes, that's what nice, supple tires go for these days- especially in the low volume high volume tire market, if you get my drift...

The tread looks really good.

Ford

Columbia County, NY

[jsk_o...@mac.com]

Patrick - I truly love those SB/EL’s … so much so that I’m not sure what’s going to make me want to put the Babyshoe Pass EL’s back on again.

[Steve Palincsar]

I'll bet Amir meant "coif" -- short for "coiffure" as per this definition, and pronounced as if it was spelled "quaff"...

informal•North American

short for coiffure.

verb

verb: coif; 3rd person present: coifs; past tense: coiffed; past participle: coiffed; gerund or present participle: coiffing; past tense: coifed; past participle: coifed; gerund or present participle: coifing

/kwäf/

style or arrange (someone's hair), typically in an elaborate way.

"her elaborately coiffed hair"

-- 
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[Bill M.]

Read my post again, I think you'll see that I got that.

Bill

[Jason Fuller]

I've been riding the original 'Rosé' tires and I'm really impressed - they're not just internet-savvy, they are also real-world legit.  Rolling resistance is quite low, yet grip on trails is quite high. Plus, I was really surprised how nicely they cornered on pavement. Predictable in dirt.  Stoked on them.  From that experience I'd give these new tires a shot, though there are a lot of other tires that would do a similar job - whereas the Rose is quite unique in its deliverables.  

[Mike Evans]

Thanks for the feedback. That sounds encouraging. I'll have to give these a try. Did you run them tubeless?