650b tubeless options ?

[Adam Paiva]

Ideally I would like a 42 mm width tire that is tubeless compatible. Now I know Compass' 48 mm pass is "tubeless" and I know there are people running their 42 mm pass tubeless even though it's not officially compatible.
WTB Horizon is tubeless but (without any actual experience) I am guessing it's not quite the same level of supplenass as the Compass.

Are there other (non knobby) options out there in 650bx42 +/- that are designed to be tubeless compatible ?

[William Lindsay]

Many of us run Babyshoe Pass 650x42 tires tubeless.  They would not stay on the rims for me on Stan's Rapid 30 rims, but do work fine on Pacenti CL25 rims.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Steven Frederick]

Schwalbe G-one comes to mind. It has a bit of tread but not what I'd
call knobs...YMMV, of course.

http://www.artscyclery.com/descpage-SWG1TBT.html?gclid=CjwKEAiAyanCBRDkiO6M_rDroH0SJAAfZ4KLpSvybxUa2c2wm33FpdhZZOI96J_N1Y0s8uHMoaZywBoCPgrw_wcB

Don't some versions of the Panaracer Gravel Kings claim to be tubeless
compatible, too?

Steve

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[Mike Klaas]

On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 10:46:22 AM UTC-8, Adam Paiva wrote:

Panaracer makes a 650x42 tire for OEM use with the Cannondale Slate which is tubeless compatible, I believe.  You can't buy it, but many people suspect it is a rebranded Pari-Moto or GravelKing.

-Mike 

[Adam Paiva]

At least on their site, Panaracer only lists the Gravel King SK as tubeless compatible, and thats only available in 700c sizes.

Gravel King and Pari-Moto are both in 650B sizes, but aren't tubeless designated.

I've heard good things about G-ones but it isn't attractive to me, and has more tread than I think I want.

If nothing else meets my criteria, I will either try out the 48mm Compass for clearance, or buy Babyshoe Pass and try them out tubeless, and can always put tubes in if they don't seal well.  Just want to make sure I'm not not thinking of another option.

[Paulo Dias]

the WTB is also not 42mm.

There is not anything afaik in that size that is officially tubeless. That said, I have put probably about 300 miles on my babyshoe pass tires running tubeless, seems fine so far (some people have problems later in the life of the tire yet which I still have not tested obviously). Also I am not running the extralight tire.

[nm matt]

i've been running BSP extralights tubeless on A23's since they were introduced. the bead is of course not the same profile as a tubeless ready affair, but with a tubeless rim you should be fine-pending tire pressure of course. don't run them too high, it would kill the ride quality, but might put more stress than desirable on the bead.

[Greg Achtem]

#whatpressureyourunning Matt? I'd like to try tubeless with BSPes but I just spent big bucks on light tubes from Compass. Baby steps.

> On Dec 9, 2016, at 19:09, nm matt <matt.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> i've been running BSP extralights tubeless on A23's since they were introduced. the bead is of course not the same profile as a tubeless ready affair, but with a tubeless rim you should be fine-pending tire pressure of course. don't run them too high, it would kill the ride quality, but might put more stress than desirable on the bead.
>

[Mike Schiller]

Panaracer says that any of their tires with the Gravelking shield can be run tubeless without issue.  I've yet to try. The listed tubeless Gravelking 700 x 40  SK set up super easy with a floor pump.

On std BSP's.... I had one tire set up tubeless and worked great.  The other kept losing pressure overnight. I added more sealant a few times over the course of two weeks and finally gave up. There was no sealant leakage that I could see.  This was on A23's

What we need is some wider 650B rims for rim brakes.  Be nice to see some i23 or so rims.  

~mike

Carlsbad Ca

[Tamaso Johnson]

I would *not* recommend running BSP ELs tubeless.

I understand that others have had adequate experiences with them, but from my experience trying this I think it is unsafe. The sidewall is too thin and permeable. I was never able to get one tire to fully seal, and kept weeping Stan's no matter how much sealant I put in. What finally killed the experiment for me was riding gravel and having a rock abrade the sidewall and cause a pretty sudden deflation-- could have been bad. Tubes went in and stayed in after that.

The G-Ones are really nice and roll well, but I like something with more volume.

WTB Horizons have been excellent thus far.

[Fred Blasdel]

On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Adam Paiva <adam....@gmail.com> wrote:

WTB Horizon is tubeless but (without any actual experience) I am guessing it's not quite the same level of supplenass as the Compass.

They're at least as supple as the standard-weight Compass casing and set up tubeless flawlessly. I can do it dry with a hand pump on the first stroke, without the tires being a tight fit on the rim!

The "tubeless-ready" Compass SBHs are capable of it, but a real struggle to set up tubeless even using every trick in the book, especially if the tires have already stretched.

[Adam Paiva]

Mike - when you say with the Gravelking shield, you mean any of the Gravelking tires?  So the non-knobby slick tread Gravelking in 650b x 42 mm ?  Is this statement that they will work tubeless published anywhere, or found any accounts of people trying it ?

[Adam Paiva]

I thought I was going to be clever and I emailed my friend who works for Cannondale to see if I could buy these tires through him somehow...but no dice.

[Steve Palincsar]

What is the point of an OEM tire that you can't buy replacements for?  Are you supposed to throw the bike away when the tires wear out???

[Steve Palincsar]

Cannondale is recalling all 2016 Slate wheels that were sold with inner tubes and tires due to potential safety risks when setting the wheels up tubeless. 

Cannondale is issuing a safety notice for all 2016 Slate bicycle wheels because of potential tire failures when riders attempt to set the wheels up tubeless.

When modifying the rims to run them tubeless, the tire bead may not seat properly and the tire could come off the rim while riding. Cannondale has received reports of this occurring in the field.

Cannondale says the bike is safe when ridden with an inner tube in each wheel, but riders who have modified their Slates to run tubeless should immediately stop riding and re-install the inner tubes in both wheels before riding again.

The Slate wheels being recalled can be identified by the “Slate” logo decal on both front and rear wheels. The decals come in three colors: black, orange, and green. If your bike has these Slate wheels, you can contact an authorized Cannondale dealer to receive replacement wheels at no cost. Even if you don’t plan on modifying the wheels to tubeless, Cannondale would like every Slate owner to exchange the old wheels for the new set.

The replacement wheels use Mavic’s XM419 rims, which are suitable to convert into tubeless systems.

Read more at http://www.velonews.com/2016/04/news/cannondale-slate-recall-dont-run-it-tubeless_403875#h08XX5M2OzdDxcuD.99

On 12/12/2016 10:45 AM, Adam Paiva wrote:

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[Paulo Dias]

I am not running EL, just standard.

[Adam Paiva]

Thought the exact same thing.  Seems silly. Dont really get it.

And I saw the thing about the tubeless recall when I was googling around trying to find the tires for sale on their own.  Seems to be it was the rims though, and they are still selling the bike with those tires and calling them tubeless ready.

[Alex Wetmore]

Fred,

You've written this many times, so I went down to my local dealer (also yours, Free Range Cycles) and felt the WTB tires and the Compass.  There is no doubt that the casing on the WTB Horizon is stiffer and thicker than the standard (not EL) Compass casing.  They seem like very nice tires and it is great that they run tubeless so easily, but I didn't see anything that would make me think that the ride would be as supple.

I've been running Switchback Hill EL tires tubeless for about 3 months now with no issues, including one dismounting and remounting (I wanted to see what the sealant looked like inside...it was still moist and doing it's job).

alex

---

From: 65...@googlegroups.com <65...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Fred Blasdel <blas...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 9:52:22 PM
To: Adam Paiva
Cc: 650b
Subject: Re: [650B] 650b tubeless options ?

 

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[Mike Schiller]

I read that in some comments on FB from the Panaracer site.  I can't find it now.  I know two people who have run them tubeless without issue.

~mike

[Eric Nichols]

I converted a set of Switchback Hill EL tires to tubeless about two months ago.   Could not have been easier. Stan's tape and sealant on A23 rims.  

First install with a tube to set both beads, deflate, carefully break the bead on one side, remove tube, install valve, add sealant, and reinflate. 

I used Uncle Dick's Bead Slip on the first mounting, to save my thumbs.  No tools needed. 

I've done a fair amount of other tubeless installations, including various ghetto variants. This tire/rim combo was by far the easiest to seat and seal. Neither too tight nor too loose: just right. 

Regarding the caution about delicate sidewalls, they are indeed susceptible to cuts, but in my experience the tube gets cut about 50% of the time.  Carry a tube and a tire boot. 

I thought SBH ELs with tubes were a dream to ride; converting to tubeless made them ride even better. 

- Eric 

[satanas]

So, can anyone comment on the Horizon's ride quality? I'm interested as I should be able to get these locally in Oz, in theory at least, and have rims that are allegedly tubeless compatible.

Later,
Stephen

[Steve Park]

The Terrene Elwood 650x47 is new and interesting.
Ridinggravel and Guitar Ted have some nice reviews of it.

[lj mangin]

I recently purchased a pair of Horizons, used, but very little use on them.  The previous owner had them on a bike and his frame did not have enough clearance.  He did have them set up tubeless and told me they worked fine tubeless.

I have them on a Rawland sogn and they fit nicely with respect to clearance.  

My ride impressions: They are of course smooth, I ride between 35 and 38 psi and I am about 155 lbs.  I can't claim to pick up on every nuance of ride quality but I have used many different 650b tires including Compass ELs and regular casing, Grand Bois Hetres, Lierres, Col di la Vie, Pacentis, Ruffy Tuffy, Hutchinson, and Panaracer Soma b-line.  In my experience the ride quality on the WTBs is acceptable but nothing spectacular.  I think they ride about as well as the Soma B-lines, which in my opinion makes them not as good with respect to ride quality as the Compass or Grand Bois regular casing tires but still a pretty nice tire.  In my opinion the Compass tires are just exceptional. 

However, a bit of speculation here.  I have done some tinkering with tubeless but normally ride only tubes.  I think the WTB is likely more durable on the sidewall and will be easier to set up tubeless because of this, not as leak-prone.  I expect the WTBs to take a lot of miles and be a nice 50/50 on/off road tire.  By off road I mean gravel, not hard core mtb trails because it is a smooth tread.

To be clear, I have not ridden the switchback hills.  I have ridden the Babyshoe pass, the Loup loup pass, the Hetre, and the cypres.  All regular casing, the Babyshoe and Loup Loup ELs.

Also, these tires are on various different bikes (Toussaint, Soma Grand Rando, Soma San Remo, etc.) but I think I get some fair comparisons of the tires.  When I really want a nice ride (and my main rando bike) I take my Yipsan with the Compass ELs, 42mm take gravel roads nicely for me.

I paid $30 each for the WTBs, my luck!  For me, if I were to spend full price, I would go with the Compass SBH if ride quality is the determining factor, the WTBs if durability rates higher for you.

Just my opinion, very informal as it is, I am sure others have different views.

Happy riding!

John M

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[satanas]

^ Very helpful, thanks. :-)

[Tamaso Johnson]

So, your comparison is based primarily/exclusively on riding Horizons with tubes, in other words?

FWIW, I generally agree with your assessment of how they *feel* in comparison to 42mm Compass tires. However, to the extent that we're trying to compare the tires I think that the better 'apples-to-apples' requires the Horizons to be run tubeless, since this is the intended use case around which the tire (including sidewall) was designed as far as I understand-- something that sets them apart from most-if-not-all of the other 650b tires you mentioned. Putting a tube in is only going to compromise the ride quality & rolling resistance vs tubeless.

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[lj mangin]

Hi Tamaso-

You are absolutely correct.  My only apples to apples is that almost everything I mentioned was run with tubes.  You make a good point, if they were designed for tubeless then I may not have a fair representation.  I probably won't run them tubeless, I only have one set of rims for tubeless and I don't use them on my Rawland, no dynamo on those wheels.

John M

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