650 b touring tire??

[Bernard Duhon]

 

Gang,

Looking for a 650b touring tire.

Panaracer Gravelking  ss looks as good as I can get.

 

Maximum width is 38 mm rear 42 mm front.

 

I would love to find Marathon Supreme but they don’t exist in that size.

 

Any suggestions?

 

[Josh Brown]

Bernard,

I think there's a pretty wide margin of difference between the two tires you mentioned. I'd wonder what your rim is, what your tour entails, and what tire you've had success with (and why you'd want to deviate from that). 

Both tires are great but if you're looking to dial things in I'd say these points deserve addressing. 

Josh in NY 

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[Will Vautrain]

Are you prioritizing weight or durability?

I was checking out Schwalbe today and they have a Marathon Plus available in 40mm. It's probably not a bad bet they measure out to a bit slimmer than that, perhaps 38mm.

If I was touring with your width restriction, I'd seriously look at that tire.

[daxo potato]

my first tour was on a schwabble marathon plus. i was so traumatised by the experience that i won't buy *anything* from that brand nor even mention their name. its as close to a solid tyre as one can get: heavy, plodding, ponderous, infinitely exhausting. every km seemed like miles. i thought it was because of my heavy bike...

my next tour was the same bike, converted to 650b, more mountainous terrain, on hetres (with an internal gear hub and generator hub, both of which should have slowed me down) and my bike became a speed demon. 

bonus: i got less flats on the hetres

your milage may vary

Dave "hetres forever" in NY

[Sam Weinberg]

the panaracer pasela is a good choice that i get 1000-1500mi from and is fairly puncture resistant. AND it comes with tan side walls. 

sam

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[Will Boericke]

I assume "touring" to mean "flat-resistant"?  I'm not sure I'd be willing to compromie on tires - Gravelkings for me are a decent in-between tire - good flat resistance and also low rolling resistance.  I have a set in 650x38 that works quite nicely, a little stiffer than an equivalent RH tire.  If you're concerned about flats, you could always throw some Mr Tuffys in there.

Will

[Jeff Bertolet in Raleigh, NC]

Tire choice has a lot to do with the kind of rider you are as much as listed specs. 

I would ride RH tires for anything except heavily loaded (40lbs+ gear) touring in remote areas (more than a days ride to the nearest mid-size town). I would feel comfortable booting or sewing a tire back together to keep riding. I am comfortable riding fairly low pressure to minimize punctures. My touring tends to be light weight (25 lbs gear) and in populated areas (east coast).

I have RH tires on my two most ridden bikes (short distance grocery bike and long distance rando bike). I move the tires around to even out tread wear vs. sidewall deterioration (from not getting ridden much) and I'm just finishing up wearing out tires from 3-4 years, 4k miles riding, each tire.

If RH tires seem too pricey, let us know if you have ruled those out.

[Ian A]

Apologies if this has already been referenced: 
https://www.rivbike.com/products/schwalbe-marathon-greenguard-hs420-tire

650bx42 in a robust touring option. Riv have 650bx32 in a Continental tore which looks good too. Even the European vendors don't have much in 650b in anything narrower than 2" these days.

I run Grand Bois Hetres (40mm width on my rims) and enjoy them immensely. They wear fast under a load though.

IanA Kitimat BC

[Josh Zielinski]

I realize these are essentially Panaracer made Paselas but these look pretty robust (on tread) and supple(ish) on the sidewalls:

https://global.bluelug.com/fairweather-for-cruise-tire-black-skin.html

Anyone ever used them or even seen them in person?

I have a pair of 26" Marathons and agree that they aren't particularly nice to ride.  I'd use them to commute if I had a commute to ride.

-Josh

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[Ian A]

It's true - I had Marathon Plus tires (26x1.75) which I replaced with Big Apple Lite Skin (26x2). The Big Apples are so much fun to ride. The Marathon Plus not at all!

I have, however, just bought a pair of Marathon Green Guard 700x35 for my touring bike. I'm hoping they are nicer then the Plus model. Either way, I find when the bike is loaded up with tent, gear, stove, fuel, water etc., the sturdier tire feels more acceptable.

IanA

[daxo potato]

On Fri, Dec 29, 2023, 20:39 Jeff Bertolet in Raleigh, NC <jbf...@gmail.com> wrote:

Tire choice has a lot to do with the kind of rider you are as much as listed specs. 

i think this is spot on. rather than specific tyres, i would say "whatever works well for your normal riding will probably work well for touring"

that assumes your normal riding and your touring are similar conditions. 

i think this applies even for heavy riders on fully loaded tours. for example, i know someone who destroys hetres after a couple hundred miles, he switched to gravelkings and is happy. my riding style works well for hetres and we even use them on our tandem. 

*get a fresh pair of whatever you ordinarily ride, and bring a spare.*

the only caveat is that I've hear in the western parts of the USA one must contend with numerous thorns that seem to penetrate all tyres. i have no personal experience with these, but I've heard the most viable solution is tubeless. 

good luck and enjoy your ride!

Dave in NY

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[Ian A]

I just noticed Russ from Pathless Pedaled posted a Youtube video about BikeInn, the Spanish wholesaler/retailer. I haven't watched the video, but will get time eventually. However, I did look up 650b tire options on the BikeInn website and there a lot of 650bx38 to choose from. Lots of tires in all sizes. 

BikeInn is in Spain, but they don't seem to have the amazing shipping service the German sellers offer and Reddit reviews are not overwhelmingly positive about BikeInn shipping times, but if you can wait up to a few weeks for the order to be processed and shipped by snail mail, there are options.

Also, it might be worth dropping into/calling a few bike shops (including Rivendell) to see if they have anything that fits the bill. Otherwise, just stock up on GB Hetres and carry a spare or to strapped to the frame. 

IanA

On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 5:38:21 PM UTC-8 Bernard Duhon wrote:

[Harry Travis]

 Continental Contact Urban

Rolls well compared to others, good puncture . 

42mm and 50mm widths

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Harry P Travis

17.2.1

On Dec 30, 2023, at 11:00 AM, Ian A <atte...@gmail.com> wrote:

I just noticed Russ from Pathless Pedaled posted a Youtube video about BikeInn, the Spanish wholesaler/retailer. I haven't watched the video, but will get time eventually. However, I did look up 650b tire options on the BikeInn website and there a lot of 650bx38 to choose from. Lots of tires in all sizes. 

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[Chris Cullum]

I would and have toured on both GB Hetres and RH BSPs. I get great mileage and few flats on them. YMMV.

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[Bernard Duhon]

I first, wish my biker friends a happy new year!

 

I am new to the list and enjoy the tales & profit from the advice.

 

On the touring tire subject I was over thinking it. Just cause I have a great set up my touring bike  (26 inch Marathon Supremes)  Doesn’t mean the Gravelkings sitting in the garage won’t do just fine and fresh tires are always a good idea.   

 

Happy riding

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[Mark Guglielmana]

Several of my credit card tours in the past few years have been on Rene Herse BSP's, standard casing. I've gotten about 2000 miles of touring on two sets of them, 1 flat total. I weigh 200 lbs, bike + kit is typically 45 lbs. About 400 of those miles have been on gravel.

Some people are overly flat adversive, IMO. I'm happy to trade a flat now and then for the superior rolling resistance of a light, supple tire.

[jemima]

Simworks Volummy came in a heavy 38mm, but it seems they're sold out. 

[Pat Smith]

I pretty much run gravel kings on all my bikes. Partly because they are relatively inexpensive and readily available and partly because I haven't had any issues with them. I see they now have "plus" versions of the SK, SS, and Slick tires that are more puncture resistant. There are no "slick plus" tires in 650b but there are "SS plus" in the usual 42mm and 48mm 650b road tire sizes. 

I did have a bike with 700x32 Panaracer T-serv tires for my commuter and they felt bulletproof and rode well. I'd probably try the 650b Pasela Protite which seems more or less the same. 

Smitty in DC

[satanas]

Mark G said some are "overly flat adversive," whatever that means, however I'd argue that some tyres are overly flat prone, and that riding on a slightly slower tyre is still faster - and less aggravating! - than sitting around repairing things. I've only done much touring on a few 650b tyres:

1. GB Hetres (standard casing): comfy, durable, zero flats

2. Soma EL slicks: dodgy grip, reasonably durable, allegedly both faster and lighter than Hetres, but this wasn't noticeable. They were both much more prone to flats, and to losing traction, and weren't very directionally stable either

3. Schwalbe G-One Speed in 50-584 (actual width 48mm on i23 rims): these rolled well but I got flats almost every day, plus they were extremely sensitive to pressure and lost air very fast - even iwhen they didn't puncture. Grip was dubious too, and I had a couple of sudden crashes at low speeds, plus they wore rapidly.

Of these three, IMHO only the Hetres were acceptable. I personally wouldn't wish Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres on anyone, but at least they presumably hold air(!), and so progress should be possible without continually fixing flats or topping up air, both of which are annoying and which don't contribute to forward progress. I've also used GB Écureil ELs for randonnees, though not for touring (yet), and these are fast, light and comfy, though I can't speak to long term durability; I suspect a front Écureil plus a rear Gravel King would make an excellent combo, but haven't tried it yet.

Around Sydney (or in NSW generally) the roads are reasonably clean, but in some other places either thorns or hedge clippings are common, and significantly more puncture resistance is needed if one doesn't wish to be fixing flats every day or two. I also loathe tyres which are super sensitive to inflation pressure, and either feel unstable or else rock hard and uncomfortable except within a narrow band of ~5 PSI. These are not IMHO fit for purpose but YMMV. Between Marathon Plus and EL tyres there are options that aren't heavy and slow feeling, but which don't need daily inflation and flat repair, and these are what I'd choose to tour on. If Conti made say a GP5000 S TR or (preferably) an AS TR in ~38-584 I'd be all over it, but 30 & 32mm are as wide as they get; there are many more wide-ish road tyre options in 700c, from most of the better tyre companies. :-(

Later,

Stephen

[Will Vautrain]

I should clairfy that when I suggested the Schwalbe Marathon Plus, that was out of the size requirement and prioritizing flat resistance. I'm not suggesting it's a pleasant tire to ride. I know some people who definitely prioritize flat resistance over ride quality and they are perfectly happy with Schwalbe extra durable tires. I personally don't like them.

I have personally toured on GravelKing 42mm slicks set up tubeless and had a flawless performance.

[Mark Guglielmana]

"Mark G said some are "overly flat adversive," whatever that means." Yeah, I mis-spelled aversive! 

The tires you mentioned are all pretty light weight, one you didn't mention are the Pacenti Pari-Motos which seem to flat more often than other tires I've used.

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[Stephen Poole]

I like light weight tyres - provided they don't flat all the time and aren't overly sensitive to inflation pressure - but sometimes a bit more flat resistance can go a long way. For instance, around Leh in Ladakh the locals use a very thorny shrub as a barbed wire equivalent to stop livestock escaping. The thorns are up to ~40-50mm long, end up on the road at times, and went through lightweight 26" tyres depressingly easily. In the Nubra Valley (north of Leh over a 5600m pass) I fixed flats most mornings, and just south of Leh I got 7+ front flats (I stopped counting) in a stupidly lightweight Maxxis front tyre and two in a Schwalbe Marathon XR simultaneously. :-(

Later,

Stephen

[ericni...@gmail.com]

When Stephan Abraham was preparing for his attempt at breaking the one-year time trial record, I recall reading that he tried various equipment choices, including tires. He tried one of the super flat-resistant Schwabe Marathons (I forget which model) and he quickly concluded that they slowed him down so much that he could afford to get several flats every day on faster-rolling tires, and still cover more ground. 

I know some riders who hate getting punctures so much that it doesn’t just ruin their ride, it ruins their whole week. I’m on the other end of that spectrum. By the time the ride ends,  I’ve often forgotten that I had to deal with a puncture.  How one reacts to punctures determines whether a more flat-resistant tire is appealing. It’s somewhat of a trade-off: either you expend more effort moving your bike down the road, or more effort fixing flats.  It’s not an equal tradeoff since it depends on your situation and preferences.

Eric in relatively thorn-free NH

[Ian A]

If the tour is extensive, as in it is several thousand km over weeks/months, the Schwalbe tires do make sense. Under a full load, they don't feel as slow and they wear so much slower than the Panaracer offerings. I've worn out a new Panaracer Pasela in less than 2000km on the rear of a loaded touring bike. A Schwalbe Marathon can last more than twice as long. For light  touring, randoneurring and JRA the supple tire is much more desirable. The one Schwalbe exception may be the 26"x2" Big Apple Liteskin which is unreasonably fun to ride!

Ia A

[Gmail]

On 2024-01-03 12:36 p.m., Ian A wrote:
> If the tour is extensive, as in it is several thousand km over
> weeks/months, the Schwalbe tires do make sense. Under a full load,
> they don't feel as slow and they wear so much slower than the
> Panaracer offerings. I've worn out a new Panaracer Pasela in less than
> 2000km on the rear of a loaded touring bike. A Schwalbe Marathon can
> last more than twice as long

I'd rather carry spares.

For many years I toured on 700cx32 Paselas (I won't tour on anything
narrower than 38s now). Summer of 2017 I had a work project get put on a
short hiatus with no warning giving me a 6 day break that I decide to
fill with a hasty tour around Lake Ontario that I had planned out
previously, so I could hit the road immediately. The Paselas were too
worn for the tour and none were in stock locally but the local shop was
extolling the virtues of the Continental Contact Speed and Continental
was certainly putting them up against the Marathon Supremes in their
marketing. So I picked up a pair, 700cx32, mounted them and off I went.

Ugghh! What a slog that tour was. The Contacts were brutally slow in
comparison and mileage that wouldn't have fazed me on the Paselas left
me completely wiped out at the end of the day. Never again.

On the plus side, I didn't get any flats, even on Hwy 20 Between Seneca
Falls NY and Geneva NY where the shoulder was strewn with glass and tire
wire debris for miles. They went on my city bike after that.

I tour on Gravelking slicks these days.

Cary
PTBO.ON.CA

[Mark Guglielmana]

Touring in the US, I don't think to take a spare tire. Over 50 years of riding I've used duct tape, a dollar bill, even a candy wrapper to boot a tire, which will get me to the next town. With a phone and Amazon I can have a spare tire overnighted for pickup damn near anywhere. 

[Bernard Duhon]

I rode the continental contact for 5 years on daily commute & errands.

Finally got my first flat, a nail right thru to the rim

The saying goes, “ why were you hitting yourself with a hammer?

Answer, cause it feels so good when you stop”

 

The harsh ride beats Marathon.

 

From: 65...@googlegroups.com <65...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Mark Guglielmana
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2024 12:26 PM
To: 650b <65...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [650B] 650 b touring tire??

 

Touring in the US, I don't think to take a spare tire. Over 50 years of riding I've used duct tape, a dollar bill, even a candy wrapper to boot a tire, which will get me to the next town. With a phone and Amazon I can have a spare tire overnighted for pickup damn near anywhere. 

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[Andrew Demack]

Grand Bois Hetres are awesome. In my experience they wear better than both Gravel Kings (just slightly) and Schwalbe G-Ones (by a factor of two or more). Plus they ride nicer. And they are super-duper nice on a good dirt/gravel road, and better than most everything short of a proper mtb tyre when things get rough.

Unless your touring is an around-the-world type thing, I would just use the tyres that I like. For me, that would rule out Marathons.

--Andrew in Brisbane, smiling when he thinks of the spare set of GB Hetres on a shelf in his shed.

PS. Australian readers, get your Hetres from Keith Marshall at Kumo Cycles.

[Peter Bridge]

I have a thousand miles give or take on Grand Bois 38, mixed surface, no flats, feel good to me 

~pb