Kogswell imitated, again.

[Brad]

It seems that now the French are imitating the Americans imitating the French.

La Confrerie des 650 is now involved in a bare frame capable of being used as a porteur, or campeur or whatever.

http://www.confreriedes650.org/filochard.php

[Steven Frederick]

Nice looking frameset! It's lugged which puts it higher than the
Kogswell on the "nice" scale for me.

Steve Frederick, East Lansing, MI

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[Bill M.]

Google translate gave me this paragraph:

"If you follow us for a while, you probably remember the small number of cadres "momentum" to propose a framework to ride naked by the buyer during sessions "collective", as the one best adapted to program we thought mainly urban utility. Abandonment is only caused by a lack of human resources to carry the operation when it was re Cévennes and the first set of tires."

I don't remember Matthew proposing that Kogswells be ridden naked.  Must be a French thing.

Bill

[Steve Palincsar]

On Fri, 2012-09-28 at 06:18 -0700, Bill M. wrote:
> Google translate gave me this paragraph:
>
>
>
> "If you follow us for a while, you probably remember the small number
> of cadres "momentum" to propose a framework to ride naked by the buyer
> during sessions "collective", as the one best adapted to program we
> thought mainly urban utility. Abandonment is only caused by a lack of
> human resources to carry the operation when it was re Cévennes and the
> first set of tires."
>
>
> I don't remember Matthew proposing that Kogswells be ridden naked.
> Must be a French thing.

http://www.facebook.com/events/172142269513555/


>

[Kirk Pacenti]

But didn't Kogswell just copy Rivendell geometries?

It's all been done before I guess... what's old is new again and vice
versa.

Cheers,
KP

[Steve Palincsar]

On Fri, 2012-09-28 at 07:34 -0700, Kirk Pacenti wrote:
> But didn't Kogswell just copy Rivendell geometries?

There may have been on Kogswell model that was a copy of Rivendell
geometry, but most definitely the P/R was NOT a copy of Rivendell
geometry. It was based on an early 1950s Rene Herse, designed by Jan
Heine. You'll never see a low trail Rivendell.

[Jan Heine]

At 4:40 AM -0700 9/28/12, Brad wrote:
>It seems that now the French are imitating the Americans imitating the French.
>

There is something to this. They say that their offering a bare frame
is inspired in part by bicycle tourists looking for a sturdy and
relatively utilitarian machine, but also because both in France and
in the U.S., more and more people ride porteur bikes inspired by the
Paris newspaper couriers...

So there is a U.S. influence.

They see the bike for three uses:

- platform rack type porteur, and you have a great bike to go shopping.
- big tires and low-rider racks front and rear, and you have a
camping bike that is economical and sturdy.
- stripped down build without lights nor fenders, and you have a
"cyclo-muletier" for rough terrain.

The name "Filochard" (which is a slang word for a resourceful guy who
can always figure out a way) reflects the resourcefulness and
sustainability, as well as timeless independence.

So much for the official announcement.

The emphasis on sturdiness makes me wonder about the tubing they'll
use, and what geometry.

Jan Heine
Compass Bicycles Ltd.
2116 Western Ave.
Seattle WA 98121
http://www.compasscycle.com

Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

[Alex Wetmore]

From: Kirk Pacenti [mr....@gmail.com]

> But didn't Kogswell just copy Rivendell geometries?

You can really only argue that for one Kogswell bike, the P (the model that used your Artisan lugs uncarved...a look that never appealed to me).

The original D model appeared to be a model that Maxway already had drawn up, the F was a modification of the D for fixed gear. Neither were very derivative of Rivendell designs, in particular the 73.5 degree head tube angle and 38mm of fork offset aren't like anything Grant has built (and was very different from later Kogswell designs). These were sold for incredibly cheap prices and probably resale used now for more than most people paid for them new.

Here is the Kogswell D58 drawing, note the date which predates Rivendell by a couple of years and Kogswell by almost a decade:
http://phred.org/~alex/pictures/bikes/kogswell/d58.pdf

The P was pretty much a Rivendell Ramboulliet copy.

The G (a half TIGed, half lugged fixed gear frame), mixte, and various versions of the P/R all went in different directions. I'd argue that it is still difficult to find mass production bikes like any of them.

The most successful Rivendell copy of all time has to be the Surly Long Haul Trucker, which is an almost exact copy of the Rivendell Atlantis, minus lugs. That's now been copied by other companies too, but is different than most other touring bikes that have been offered. The overly stout tubing, huge tire clearances, 26" wheels for smaller models, and geometry are all different than the other production options that were on the market in the 80s and 90s.

I'm not a huge Kogswell fan and had some difficulties with Matthew Grimm over the years, but I did want to set the record straight.

alex

[Lee Chae]

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 7:41 AM, Jan Heine <hei...@earthlink.net> wrote:

The emphasis on sturdiness makes me wonder about the tubing they'll use, and what geometry.

I was wondering about that, too. Jan, I'm curious, do you know the tubing specs on Ernest Csuka's porteur?:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cycleczar/4130851537/

Thanks,
Lee

[pop's]

I might be wrong, but the drawing does not seem to match the date by a long shot.

 I don't recall seeing any road lugs for 36mm OS 9/8" head tubes until roughly 10 years later. Hell, in 1992 9/8" steerers were still relatively new to Mtn. bikes for that matter IIRC.

Regards,
Michael in SF