Berthoud Aspin vs Aspin Open
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Dan Vee
May 23, 2020, 7:51:25 PM5/23/20
to 650b
hey. I know. saddles... everyones gonna have a different experience but, does anyone have experience with both the Gilles Berthoud Aspin Open and the regular without the cut out? Trying to decide which one to get.
Carl Lind
May 24, 2020, 1:56:59 PM5/24/20
to 650b
I bought a standard Aspin after a painful 400k on a Brooks C17 late summer of 2018. I attempted to break the standard Aspin in throughout the winter and road a few 200s, a 300, then a too-painful 400 in spring 2019. Not confident that I could last a 1200 on that Aspin, I acquired a used Open Aspin and found it more to my liking.
I put the Standard Aspin on my "half-day" bike and don't think much about it--which means that it is fine for that use. I have the Open on my "all-day" bike.
The Open came to me more broken in then my Standard, so I don't have a true "off-the-shelf" comparison. I'm hopeful that the standard will continue to form to my anatomy.
Carl
Seattle
Evan Estern
May 25, 2020, 5:45:26 PM5/25/20
to 650b
I'd be very interested in hearing people's experiences with Berthoud saddles, any of them. I recently got the Aravis without cutout, and though it's beautiful, I'm hoping it gets more comfortable after a few more miles (got about 200 on it so far).
Collin
May 25, 2020, 7:45:39 PM5/25/20
to 650b
I can't compare the open to the solid version of the Aspin, but I can compare the Aspin Open to the Galiber (solid, but narrower). I have had both for about a year with similar mileage in similar conditions and they are about the same comfort at this point, however, the key differences I have noticed are summarized below:
- Open saddle is comfier right out of the box, and only improves comfort marginally with time
- Open saddle experiences more sag during a long day's ride (both sag and return to pre-ride tension afterwards)
In the end I prefer the solid to the open, simply because now that they are equally comfortable, I like the less-saggy mid-ride feeling of the solid saddle. If you don't plan to go on super long rides (8+ hours) or don't ride very often, then I'd get the open so you don't have to worry about the break-in period.
Hope this helps,
Collin in Sac
On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 4:51:25 PM UTC-7, Dan Vee wrote:
Kevin Smith
May 26, 2020, 3:26:45 PM5/26/20
to 650b
My 2 cents on Berthoud Aspin and Aravis saddles.
I have one of each, both without cutouts - only difference is the rails (one is Ti other CroMo). Leather has variability depending on the cow hide it came from so I suspect there is a range of time needed to achieve acceptable break in. My Aravis broken in relatively fast ~500 miles-ish. Summer riding, long brevets, sweat, PBP2019 plus I tried SnoSeal on both bottom and top of leather. My Aspin seems to be broken in roughly the same distance - but is still firmer than the Aravis. I did not put SnoSeal on the Aspin - only one coating of the conditioner Berthoud sells. I seem to notice the leather breaks in more quickly when subjected to multiple long (century length days), damp conditions (sweat or light rain). Short rides during my commute did not seem to have much impact on break in. But once I put it through a couple long days, it found its happy spot. Note - 'break in' is not a easily defined moment in time - its a gradual process - so don't expect a quick change one day. I knew I found break in when I got off a 200km and felt morning fresh down there.
I'm not sure I'd advocate SnoSeal - it was what I had around at the time. It might have caused the Aravis to get too soft - we'll see over time. I now stick to the conditioner provided.
Either the Ti rails, SnoSeal or slightly softer leather on my Aravis makes this saddle feel like a pillow for me. Its been a game changer. Aspin is still very nice, but just a hair firmer. If I didn't have the Aravis, I would not have any complaints with the Aspin.
Good luck
On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 4:51:25 PM UTC-7, Dan Vee wrote:
Evan Estern
May 27, 2020, 9:19:16 AM5/27/20
to 650b
I'm at about 250 miles now and the saddle is feeling a little better. I have not tried the Berthoud Open, but other brands of slotted saddles have felt too flexible for me and the rough dirt roads I ride on sometimes. On my solid Aravis, I feel no pressure on the area where the cutout would be, but that could just be the way I'm built.
Michael Arciero
May 27, 2020, 6:22:26 PM5/27/20
to 650b
At about 500 miles on a new solid Aspin. It went from extremely uncomfortable on day 1-like sitting on a bowling ball- to pretty luxurious and comfy by day 3-4. I have three or four rides of 75-120 miles on it. But now has settled out in a sort of hard place. On the one hand I can sort of forget about it (good) but it occasionally feels just hard. There is no visible sign of break-in apparent, and I developed a have a saddle sore right on the sit bone. Of course, sadddle sores can happen with any saddle and I will use something else for a long ride I have planned tomorrow and just come back to it later after I am totally healed. I have an older Berthoud-an Aspin or maybe it was before they had model names- that I thought I ruined on a 100+mile day in the rain years ago- the sag was so great- but that thing is unbelievably comfortable. I'd rather the new one not sag out like this old one, but perhaps some proofide or whatever is in order for this new one.
Hahn Rossman
May 28, 2020, 11:27:40 AM5/28/20
to Michael Arciero, 650b
Proofhide tends to soften, or even oversoften, leather. Obenauf's is amazing and what I use on saddle's and all my other leather items:
you can read about it here:
For a new berthoud I recommend loosening the tension bolt two turns and then just riding it. I have used one since 2015 including 3 1200k rides and it's in great shape, unlike the brooks saddles which tended to go from broken in to just broken way to fast,
Hahn Rossman
On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 3:22 PM Michael Arciero <mike.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
At about 500 miles on a new solid Aspin. It went from extremely uncomfortable on day 1-like sitting on a bowling ball- to pretty luxurious and comfy by day 3-4. I have three or four rides of 75-120 miles on it. But now has settled out in a sort of hard place. On the one hand I can sort of forget about it (good) but it occasionally feels just hard. There is no visible sign of break-in apparent, and I developed a have a saddle sore right on the sit bone. Of course, sadddle sores can happen with any saddle and I will use something else for a long ride I have planned tomorrow and just come back to it later after I am totally healed. I have an older Berthoud-an Aspin or maybe it was before they had model names- that I thought I ruined on a 100+mile day in the rain years ago- the sag was so great- but that thing is unbelievably comfortable. I'd rather the new one not sag out like this old one, but perhaps some proofide or whatever is in order for this new one.
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Michael Arciero
May 29, 2020, 5:59:07 AM5/29/20
to 650b
Had not thought to loosen the tension. Maybe will try that. I dont mind it being a little hard and breaking in slowly. That is a seriously beefy slab of leather on there compared to both my B17s. One of those is comfy but now getting to be a little on the saggy side. The other thing with well-broken in (or just broken) saddles that develop pronounced contours is that they are comfy in one position but are less amenable to adjustments in position-for climbing, descending, powering in the drops, etc.
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 11:27:40 AM UTC-4, Hahn Rossman wrote:
Proofhide tends to soften, or even oversoften, leather. Obenauf's is amazing and what I use on saddle's and all my other leather items:you can read about it here:For a new berthoud I recommend loosening the tension bolt two turns and then just riding it. I have used one since 2015 including 3 1200k rides and it's in great shape, unlike the brooks saddles which tended to go from broken in to just broken way to fast,Hahn Rossman
On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 3:22 PM Michael Arciero <mike....@gmail.com> wrote:
At about 500 miles on a new solid Aspin. It went from extremely uncomfortable on day 1-like sitting on a bowling ball- to pretty luxurious and comfy by day 3-4. I have three or four rides of 75-120 miles on it. But now has settled out in a sort of hard place. On the one hand I can sort of forget about it (good) but it occasionally feels just hard. There is no visible sign of break-in apparent, and I developed a have a saddle sore right on the sit bone. Of course, sadddle sores can happen with any saddle and I will use something else for a long ride I have planned tomorrow and just come back to it later after I am totally healed. I have an older Berthoud-an Aspin or maybe it was before they had model names- that I thought I ruined on a 100+mile day in the rain years ago- the sag was so great- but that thing is unbelievably comfortable. I'd rather the new one not sag out like this old one, but perhaps some proofide or whatever is in order for this new one.--
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Evan Estern
May 29, 2020, 10:14:30 AM5/29/20
to 650b
It never occurred to me to loosed the tension either! Great suggestion. Another off topic question: Do you Berthoud owners use the saddle as a "handle" to pick up the bike? I notice if I do that the saddle moves on the rails a tiny bit. Seems like that's not a good thing although it has not affected anything that I can detect (after years of picking up bikes this way, it would to be a difficult habit to break.)
David Cummings
May 30, 2020, 10:52:03 AM5/30/20
to 650b
+1 Hahn’s recommendation of Obenauf’s. Natural conditioning/waterproofing without the deleterious softening. I’ve been using it for decades on boots, but it works equally well on saddles.
David in MT.
David in MT.
Dan Vee
May 30, 2020, 11:06:01 AM5/30/20
to 650b
When and where do you apply this obenhaufs when the saddle is new or after it’s broken in a bit?
David Cummings
May 30, 2020, 1:03:37 PM5/30/20
to Dan Vee, 650b
I would apply when new. Then, depending on how much you ride or how wet you ride, about once a season. I put mine in the Sun for a bit to warm them up - the leather soaks it up better.
BYkePDX
May 30, 2020, 6:36:21 PM5/30/20
to 650b
I have the open but have no experience with the regular. Based on my use of brooks c17 and specialized saddles, cutouts really help to relive pressure around perineal nerve/veins whatever is down there. The longer the ride the more it's needed. I seem to have that issue on most saddles and I didn't want to gamble to see if Berthound would be different. They make an open for a reason. The only time I wish I had a regular is for short commuting when I'm wearing non bike gear like thin pants/shorts. There can be some pinching or clothes getting caught in the cut out.
I love the saddle and just have to be mindful when I flip the bike over as the leather can scratch easily. I use Obenauf's as well and like it.
On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 4:51:25 PM UTC-7, Dan Vee wrote:
Etan Heller
Jun 12, 2020, 12:24:01 PM6/12/20
to 650b
If anyone has a new-in-the-box "closed" Aravis they would want to swap for a new-in-the-box "open" Aravis, let me know. I have a black open one but wanted a closed one (black preferred).
Scott A
Jun 12, 2020, 3:20:55 PM6/12/20
to 650b
Hey all,
Just interjecting for a moment in this thread for another Berthoud question. I took delivery of a Berthoud saddle today, which was supposed to be black, but to me looks more like brown. Trying to figure out whether this is what to expect, or they made a mistake in the shipping department. So is your black saddle actually black? (The box they come in doesn't have a label specifying the color.)
Pic attached of the saddle in question, on a black background next to a black leather Berthoud bar plug.
Thanks!
Scott A
Scott A
Atlanta, GA
Steve Palincsar
Jun 12, 2020, 3:42:26 PM6/12/20
to 65...@googlegroups.com
Definitely looks brown to me.
Back years ago the first black ones were
really black and stayed black. The one on my MAP is 8 years
old, still black all over without a hint of brown.
The one I got for my Jack Taylor a couple of years ago began
black but gradually lightened to a dark brown over the course of a
few thousand miles.
-- Steve Palincsar Alexandria, Virginia USA
Ryan Witt
Jun 12, 2020, 3:54:50 PM6/12/20
to Scott A, 650b
Scott, recently got a black one here and doesn’t quite look like the ones in product shots, but it does look more black than brown. I wonder if there is variation of the base color under the stain? Because it looks like mine has a very light leather underneath.
Dan Vee
Jun 12, 2020, 8:33:09 PM6/12/20
to 650b
Yah mine is straight black not brown looking at all.
On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 3:54 PM Ryan Witt <onecrea...@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott, recently got a black one here and doesn’t quite look like the ones in product shots, but it does look more black than brown. I wonder if there is variation of the base color under the stain? Because it looks like mine has a very light leather underneath.
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Jocelyn
Jun 12, 2020, 8:36:18 PM6/12/20
to Scott A, 650b
Scott,
-Jocelyn
I've got a brown and a black Berthoud, and yours is definitely brown.
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Scott A
Jun 12, 2020, 9:42:23 PM6/12/20
to 650b
Much thanks to everyone who responded regarding the color of the saddle. Survey says... "brown". Hopefully the manufacturer agrees!
Scott
Atlanta, GA
On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 8:36:18 PM UTC-4, Jocelyn wrote:
Scott,I've got a brown and a black Berthoud, and yours is definitely brown.-Jocelyn
On Fri., Jun. 12, 2020, 3:21 p.m. Scott A, <scott...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey all,--Just interjecting for a moment in this thread for another Berthoud question. I took delivery of a Berthoud saddle today, which was supposed to be black, but to me looks more like brown. Trying to figure out whether this is what to expect, or they made a mistake in the shipping department. So is your black saddle actually black? (The box they come in doesn't have a label specifying the color.)Pic attached of the saddle in question, on a black background next to a black leather Berthoud bar plug.Thanks!
Scott AAtlanta, GA
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Collin
Jun 12, 2020, 11:06:43 PM6/12/20
to 650b
Still a pretty nice color though!
Scott A
Jun 12, 2020, 11:53:44 PM6/12/20
to 650b
Collin, I agree. And in person the leather is remarkably beautiful. About the same color as a good dark roast cup of coffee. And I REALLY wish that the color would work on this bike, because these lighter shades show off the unique qualities of the leather more than black.
However, almost everything in the build is silver with black accents on a frame painted a very vibrant 1980's blue. The plan was (is) to use the black saddle and bar tape to help tone down the blue and tie it all together. Unfortunately as is, the warm tone of the brown saddle in the midst of the other cool tones looks very much out of place. At this point the build is nearly complete, just waiting on the new Berthoud saddle. :)
Scott
Atlanta, GA
Evan Estern
Jun 14, 2020, 10:25:28 AM6/14/20
to 650b
A bit late to reply here, but my recently purchased Aravis is a solid black, no hint of brown. I was a little disappointed when it arrived as the leather had a few cosmetic flaws and for my first few rides I felt like I was sitting on a rock. 500 miles later I'm finding it to be the very comfortable. What I appreciate almost more than the comfort is the support. I feel like I can go deeper into my pedal stokes and it's easier to sustain prolonged efforts. Other leather saddles I've owned have also been really comfortable, but they lacked this support.
Dan Vee
Jun 14, 2020, 10:57:26 AM6/14/20
to 650b
The Aspin I just got has a lot of give and seems pretty comfortable out the box. I did apply Obenhaufs before the first ride. Seems like it definitely gets more forgiving as it warms up during a ride also.
On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 10:25 AM Evan Estern <evane...@gmail.com> wrote:
A bit late to reply here, but my recently purchased Aravis is a solid black, no hint of brown. I was a little disappointed when it arrived as the leather had a few cosmetic flaws and for my first few rides I felt like I was sitting on a rock. 500 miles later I'm finding it to be the very comfortable. What I appreciate almost more than the comfort is the support. I feel like I can go deeper into my pedal stokes and it's easier to sustain prolonged efforts. Other leather saddles I've owned have also been really comfortable, but they lacked this support.
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