Salsa La Cruz 650B Conversion

[cyclotourist]

I built this up from a mostly stock Salsa La Cruz I bought last month.
Perfect transformation from a great 700C cyclocross bike to 650B
monstercross machine!

Read all about it here:
http://cyclotourist.blogspot.com/2013/11/religious-conversion.html

--
Cheers,
David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

[Greg Achtem]

Looks great!

Is the 450g weight penalty with tires included? If so, do you know the weight difference without the tires? If it's a complete wash, it bodes well for the weight weenies. 

I wonder if that is the same fork as the one on Hahn's orange bike. Well, not exactly the same, Hahn's has mid fork brazeons.

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[Oleritter]

I was wondering the same question.  Was the weight with tires?  My Speedsters weighed 600+ grams, I could see gaining 8 oz per wheel easy if coming from light cross tires.  I would expect the wheels themselves not much different.  

Also curious, how is the tire clearance with the Speedsters?

I like the bike!

[cyclotourist]

Yeah, pretty much all in the tires, but that's to be expected, and not
really a problem.

Tire clearance is really good with the 1.95" listed, 47mm actual
Speedsters. About 6mm at the chainstays, which is the tightest spot.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/11030750286/
I presume the 1.95" Vee X-C-X would have about the same clearance, and
those might be a good tire to use as well. In the original Bikeman
conversion, he used Quasi Motos, which just fit.

This bike is really great, and just perfect for my needs. 190mm head
tube, 430mm chainstays, 68mm BB drop. Just right for me. I'm not all
that happy with the fork though, really unpleasantly rigid. I presume
that's just the way it is with a straight disc fork. Can't be a whole
bunch of compliance built into them.

On 11/27/13, Oleritter <bjoe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was wondering the same question. Was the weight with tires? My
> Speedsters weighed 600+ grams, I could see gaining 8 oz per wheel easy if
> coming from light cross tires. I would expect the wheels themselves not
> much different.
>
> Also curious, how is the tire clearance with the Speedsters?
>
> I like the bike!
>
> On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 9:21:26 AM UTC-6, Greg wrote:
>>
>> Looks great!
>>
>> Is the 450g weight penalty with tires included? If so, do you know the
>> weight difference without the tires? If it's a complete wash, it bodes
>> well
>> for the weight weenies.
>>
>> I wonder if that is the same fork as the one on Hahn's orange bike. Well,
>>
>> not exactly the same, Hahn's has mid fork brazeons.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 11:33 PM, cyclotourist

>> <cyclot...@gmail.com<javascript:>

>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I built this up from a mostly stock Salsa La Cruz I bought last month.
>>> Perfect transformation from a great 700C cyclocross bike to 650B
>>> monstercross machine!
>>>
>>> Read all about it here:
>>> http://cyclotourist.blogspot.com/2013/11/religious-conversion.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>> David
>>>
>>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>>
>>> "650b" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>>>

>>> email to 650b+uns...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

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>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/650b.
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>>>
>>
>>

[Greg Achtem]

I wonder what the Giant cf disk cx fork with it's thru axle is like. Do they do all stiff all the time or are they able to tune the ride? A cx race is all out for an hour so I'm not sure how much ride comfort factors into the design, if at all.

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[Oleritter]

Too bad there aren't more 650b tires, right?  Like in the 42 to 48mm area?  Maybe it will come in time.  

I would guess your bottom bracket might be too low if you went down to 38mm tires.

Re: the fork, I have my eye on this fork possibly in my future.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/261309233410?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649  Not so much to lighten the bike, though a nice benefit, but to smooth out washboard and otherwise rough surfaces on a long ride.  

[cyclotourist]

Yeah, wouldn't know... I bet a good builder could build me up a more
compliant one, but the idea of this whole thing was to keep the price
<$1K. So far I'm under that including the wheelset and tires.

[Mark Chandler]

Carver has some nice forks and good prices. I spec'd the XC-480 on my 29er, and am considering that cross fork for another build. Disclaimer: Carver/Bikeman is a GRAVELBIKE advertiser.

Looking for 650B tires that aren't super-wide? Check out this post: http://www.gravelbike.com/?p=2394

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[Nick Payne]

Salsa had a recall on forks for that frame. Have you checked that your
fork isn't one of the batches subject to the recall:
http://salsacycles.com/salsaforkrecall.

[Ed Braley]

The bike looks good! Of course, you knew I'd say that!

Tire fitment is certainly better with the rubber you're running than what we
used on that Bikeman conversion. We just did a quick and dirty conversion
with what was in stock at the shop at the time to prove the concept, and
while it was functional, there really wasn't any room to spare. That was 5
years ago...

There are several 700C disc bikes that will easily convert to 650B these
days, and the 650B disc wheel and tire options are much better now, too.
With the momentum for 650B in the MTB space maybe we'll see some factory
drop-bar 650B monster cross rigs. We might even see a factory-complete 650B
all rounder or two. Actually, this could happen anytime now...

Ed.

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[Eric Stocker]

Beautiful bike! How much clearance is left with the 47mm Speedsters on? Do you think the La Cruz could comfortably fit a 51mm tire?

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[Fred Blasdel]

On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Greg Achtem <greg....@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wonder what the Giant cf disk cx fork with it's thru axle is like. Do they
> do all stiff all the time or are they able to tune the ride? A cx race is
> all out for an hour so I'm not sure how much ride comfort factors into the
> design, if at all.

It's quite possible to do in carbon, especially with a thru-axle
helping with torsional rigidity

The Whisky #9 Cross Fork definitely does not do that, it's brutally
stiff and uncompliant, doesn't move at all even under massive braking
load. It's also way overweight, so it's probable their contractor just
completely screwed up the engineering.

I haven't seen one yet, but Giant has historically been pretty good
about not letting "marketing stiffness" get in the way of ride quality
and they have a major engineering operation (even weaving all their
own carbon) so it's likely they did a much better job.

[Greg Walton]

Fred, how is the performance of your raked steel disc fork wrt compliance and torsional rigidity?  Are you happy with it?

What fork blade size did you spec?

Greg

[Greg Achtem]

And it (the Giant) sure looks svelte head on in World Cup cross coverage. Thank you SportsNet (Canada)

I wonder what the clearances actually are on that fork. CX still has the tire width rule as far as I know (33, 34 mm max?) And then, would it be available aftermarket? Doubtful. Will it come in sizes for all bikes rather than tapered top tubes, zero stack headsets? Also doubtful.

Ah well, a guy can dream.

[Fred Blasdel]

On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Greg Walton <gwa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Fred, how is the performance of your raked steel disc fork wrt compliance and torsional rigidity?  Are you happy with it?

It does move back and forth through a 5-10mm range at high speed on rough dirt roads, but how much of that deflection is happening in the curve I don't know.

I just realized that when I've been paying attention to that I've only been looking at the right dropout, I'll have to start looking at the NDS where the long disc tab is to see if the movement is noticeably asymmetric

It hasn't suffered from brakesteer, but the mechanical discs don't have much bite to them…

What fork blade size did you spec?

http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-frame-tubing/NOVA-CRMO-ROAD-OVAL-0.9-0.6-NOV_CXFB_OVL_0.9.html

They're oversized by 1-2mm in the upper oval section to fit the crown but otherwise quite normal, with a light 0.9/0.6mm butting

[cyclotourist]

This fork is a non-recall one, luckily! I checked that out before
buying. Thanks for the heads up though!

Clearance w/ the Speedsters is ~6mm in the tightest spot on the
chainstays. Everywhere else is probably close to 10mm. I could
probably fit a 51mm round tire measured on the casing, but I doubt
51mm knobs would clear. The Quasi Moto will barely clear, as that's
what Bikeman used. Thanks for the inspiration, Ed!!!

I'm guessing Racing Ralphs maaaaay fit as well, especially if they are
undersized like most Schwalbe offerings are.

I'm not really wanting to get into CF forks as I'm a bit of a steel is
real sort of a guy. If this bike really works out for me over time, I
might commission a custom fork, but that would be in the future a bit.

Unfortunately not riding it at the minute due to this little problem:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/11041655663/ Stupid 10 speed
chains...

BTW, if I do get a fork built, I'd LOVE to get this repaint and decal
job done it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/29332014@N00/9056419824 That
pre-QBP look is just fantastic!

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[Fred Blasdel]

On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 3:40 PM, cyclotourist <cyclot...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm guessing Racing Ralphs maaaaay fit as well, especially if they are
undersized like most Schwalbe offerings are.

the 2.25" is a bit over a mm bigger than the Quasi-Moto

their 2.1" tires should fit though

I'm not really wanting to get into CF forks as I'm a bit of a steel is
real sort of a guy. If this bike really works out for me over time, I
might commission a custom fork, but that would be in the future a bit.

full CF is a really good material for forks, but to date nobody had built an appropriate disc fork for straight steerers

Ritchey is fixing that though: http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/10/01/ib13-ritchey-unveils-road-tubeless-wheels-carbon-disc-cyclocross-fork-prototype-rail-saddles/

[cyclotourist]

Yes, the 27.5x2.1" look like they will just squeeze in. 2.0" Quasis
should be a touch better.

Anyone know what the 2.1" measure out at actual?

On 11/27/13, Fred Blasdel <blas...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Eric Stocker]

Nice!

I was more curious about Schwalbe's new Thunder Burt tire. It has a lower profile tread with nice side nobs, much like a file tread CX tire. Best part is that it measures out to only 50-51mm in width.

[cyclotourist]

And at 415g for the 27.5X2.10"... wow. I only need dry condition/hard
pack tire, so could be perfect if the knobs clear!

http://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/thunder-burt.html

[Fred Blasdel]

On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 4:33 PM, cyclotourist <cyclot...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, the 27.5x2.1" look like they will just squeeze in. 2.0" Quasis should be a touch better.

Anyone know what the 2.1" measure out at actual?

On a rim with a 21mm inside width, the 650b Thunder Burt is 51mm wide and 692mm tall

I sold off my Quasi-Motos, but I know they're exactly 52mm wide on a rim with 19mm inside width

Your Blunts have a 24mm inside width so both tires will measure larger, but there's no way the Schwalbe 2.1s will be bigger than a Quasi-Moto

Kirk is unusual in labeling his tires the actual size on normal rims, you should generally consider inch-delimited sizes to be categories and not representative :)

[cyclotourist]

Maybe label them S, M, L and XL :-)

Thanks for the measurements, the Burts may just fit, I'll need to
measure and re-measure a few times! They look like they may be a real
good tire for my dry SoCal trails. As I mentioned, the Speedsters are
plenty fine on flatish fireroads, but on any sort of off-camber
situation, they're a bit sketchy.

On 11/27/13, Fred Blasdel <blas...@gmail.com> wrote:

[satanas]

I can confirm the TB sizing; on a Giant branded rim with an external width of ~25.5mm, the height above the rim was 50mm and the width was ~50.5mm. The test here suggests that grip is good: http://twentynineinches.com/2013/07/30/schwalbe-%E2%80%9Cthunder-burt%E2%80%9D-tire-final-review/

Later,

Stephen