"Best" 650b x 42 tire in 2024

[ML]

Need max speed and lightness to make pedaling down the road easier.

What's the consensus this year?

[CMR]

I predict this thread might end as a fight between smooth gravelking riders and Compass riders haha

Gravelkings are almost too light in my opinion, but ride great and I haven't had a flat in them but others think they are vulnerable. Compass may not set up as nicely tubeless, they are pretty and pretty expensive, but my favorite tires on nice roads and when I have the budget.

[Josh Zielinski]

Tubes or tubeless?  My preference would hinge on that.

Josh

On Mon, Oct 14, 2024, 10:05 AM ML <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Need max speed and lightness to make pedaling down the road easier.

What's the consensus this year?

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[Kim H.]

I bought a pair of SimWorks HOMAGE 27.5x43 tires back in May of this year for my Clem. I am very happy with them. They require a inner tubes, of which I do not mind at all.

I won't hesitate to buy them again.

https://www.sim.works/collections/simworks-by-panaracer/products/the-homage

I recently bought their 27.5x55 tires for riding on a trail that had gravel and through tall grass. I am glad that did. Great tires !

Kim Hetzel.

On Mon, Oct 14, 2024, 10:05 AM ML <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Need max speed and lightness to make pedaling down the road easier.

What's the consensus this year?

--

[esoterica etc]

If max. speed and lightness are your only requirements, I'd heartily endorse the Pacenti Pari-Motos, which I believe are the lightest 650b x 42 tires that are available. They're listed as 330-340g per tire, which is 40-50g lighter than the Rene Herse equivalent, the Babyshoe Pass Extralights, which weigh 380g according to the RH website. Proponents of Rene Herse tires will say you'll get more mileage out of the BSPs because they have a thicker tread, but the price difference between the two kinda cancels that argument out. I really loved the ride of the Pari-Motos and had them on my Soma San Marcos for almost a year before I sold the bike, and had only one flat if I remember correctly. YMMV though, because I have read of people referring to them as "flat magnets", so probably a lot has to do with how and where you ride. 

~Mark

Kailua, HI

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[Ian A]

Grand Bois Hetre  Extralight 584x42 is my vote. And the price is right.

I haven't tried RH tires though 

IanA

On Monday, October 14, 2024 at 10:05:36 AM UTC-7 ML wrote:

[David Hays]

Same for me Ian.

I have three bikes with them and never a flat.

David

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[Josh Zielinski]

Can Hetres be run tubeless?

If there's no tubeless requirement for OP I'd throw and light and fast is important I'd encourage a look at Grand Bois Ecureuil extra leger:

https://global.bluelug.com/grand-bois-ecureuil-650b-black.html

Yes it's a 38mm tire but on roads the difference is not drastic (imo).  They weigh: 240g.

I've put hundreds of miles on mine and they have held up well.  Probably dumb luck but my GravelKings (also 38mm) gave me more trouble/flats.  I haven't done the math but GK were tubeless so tire weight+sealant probably less than weight of Grand Bois and tubes...  Also worth considering.

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[satanas]

+1 for the Écureil. They're significantly faster and lighter than either the standard GB Hetre or Soma GR EL 42mm, more comfortable than either, and much more directionally predictable than the GR (not difficult, they were dreadful IME). The Hetre will probably get more mileage, but I'd much rather ride the Écureils; YMMV. None of the GB tyres are meant to be tubeless compatible though, if that matters to you. An Écureil on the front with a GK on the rear is perhaps a more economical combo, and should be a bit more puncture-resistant, but will be heavier. FWIW, the Écureils seem to be less sensitive to inflation pressure too.

Later,

Stephen (who wises Conti, Schwalbe, Vittoria, etc would make a road tyre in 35-584 or wider)

[franc...@gmail.com]

I'm definitely biased towards Grand Bois as I'm a GB reseller!

I will be getting more of the 700x38B Écureil (Squirrel in English). with my Halloween Order (give or take a few days).

I can offer my pre-order price of $49.00 each shipped. 

And I'll have Some Hetre ELP/ Hetre Route Forestiere 650×42B(Extra Light + Puncture Resistant liners).$54 each. 

*Squirrels have EL Casings TUBES ONLY Weight: Ultra Light 260 grams. Note at that weight they are delicate.

*Hetre ELP/ Hetre Route Forestiere 650×42B(Extra Light + Puncture Resistant liners). Weight  is same as Std Hetre 420 g. $54 ea shipped

**All GB tires require tubes!

Please Order ASAP 

--Thanks Scott Davis, MPLS, MN USA GB Reseller

[franc...@gmail.com]

I Forgot GB Tire Link:

https://cyclesgrandbois.com/SHOP/279817/list.html

I've been riding Squirrels(Écureil) for a few years. They do wear faster than most tires and are more delicate.

Scott Davis, GB re-seller Mpls, MN USA 

[franc...@gmail.com]

For tries please email me directly: francopedia at gmail.com

--Scott Davis GB resller

[satanas]

GB apparently have some new "Forestier" versions of the Hetre and Lierre which I hadn't seen before; my guess is they'll have the same casing as the RH Endurance tyres, so might be usrful to somebody.

Later,

Stephen

[franc...@gmail.com]

Stephen is correct. The Hetre Forestier (ELP) = Extra Leger + Puncture Resistance  and the Lierre ELP both provide  Puncture Resistant strips surrounding the whole tire.  The ELP offers nearly the performance of the EL with much more durability. ELP weight is the same as the Std casing

Prices are $44.00 each for std casings including US shipping

            and $54.00 ea for ELP including US shipping.

ELP is offered in 650B x 42 Hetre and 650B x 36  Lierre Tires only.  

EL is no longer available in Hetre and Lierre. Std casings are still available.

*They might offer ELP in other models next year.

 Let me know ASP, if you want to order some.  I'm still awaiting final confirmation from GB.

Scott

[Will Mill]

Hey all.

From the "YMMV department," I'm not the fountain of all knowledge but I just recycled a well-worn pair of RH (née Compass) 650b x 42 extralights from my VO Polyvalent MK3.  I'm pleased with how long they wore and how fast they made the heavy Polyvalent feel (w/ Velocity Synergy wheels).  Installed a new pair of RH 650b x 42 extralights and it feels slower.  Has anyone else experienced tires feeling faster as they wear?

A related question: what performance gains are folks seeing (not seeing?) with the TPU tubes?  As I read the numbers in recent BQ tests, I'm curious about the real world.

Cheers,

Will

NYC

[Harry Travis]

You can find real physical measurements on road tires at different degrees of use and wear here. 

You were fond of your old tires? How else could you express it except to say they "felt faster?"

Not a criticism, even if you could distinguish them "blindfolded."

"

Rolling resistance of both the 28-622 and 32-622 has increased by 4 - 9 % depending on air pressure which is something that actually surprised us. We think most people expect tires to become faster rolling when the tread wears down as there will be less material to deform. 

Most tires that roll really fast have a lot of rebound in the casing/tread when you take them out of the packaging and deform the tire with your hands. After testing a lot of tires, we generally already know if a tire is fast or slow rolling simply based on how easily the tire rebounds when it's deformed. It looks like the GP 5000 loses some of these properties in at least the first 620 miles / 1000 km."

--

Harry P Travis

Portland Oregon USA 

17.7

On Oct 17, 2024, at 10:06 AM, Will Mill <wpm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey all.

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[Cary Weitzman]

On 2024-10-17 12:03 p.m., Will Mill wrote:
> Has anyone else experienced tires feeling faster as they wear?

Yes. At least subjectively, that has been my experience as well.

Cary
PTBO.ON.CA

[Brad]

There was a time when JP Weigle and Jan Heine were experimenting with shaved Hetres.  That would be consistent with some tires getting faster with a little bit of wear.

[ML]

Liking the idea of Pari-Motos for now - lightest and inexpensivest. Seems hard to find though. Have they been discontinued?

[ML]

I found them!

[etorg...@yahoo.com]

ML (Bob from where?) said "Liking the idea of Pari-Motos for now - lightest and inexpensivest. "

Agreed.  I too like the Parimotos.  I have mounted multiple sets tubeless as well.  (I did that when I heard they were "flat magnets" back in the early days.). For some reason, all my 42s in tubeless formation have a little wobble, while all my 38s have been true.). 

Also, I have set up GB Hetre EL tubeless (after using Carpet Cement) but don't recommend it.  Finally, I count the ecureuil as the tire (the only tire) I could NOT maintain tubeless despite much effort.  

One can say I was foolish to try to set these tires up tubeless, but I am just putting the experience out there for anyone who considered it.  

Eli

In Albuquerque

[daxo potato]

i have also felt like my worn hetres were mildly faster than new ones. I've never ridden my bicycle on a drum so i don't know if that's objectively true. i do note i just put a new set of tyres on my car (replaced with exact same brand/model/size) and i get ever so sightly worse gas milage. that would seem to indicate the worn tyres rolled easier than new ones, aka faster.

ymmv, mine certainly did.

-Dave "hetres are fast enough and are by far the coolest looking of all the mentioned rubber for me" in NY

On Mon, Oct 14, 2024, 13:05 ML <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Need max speed and lightness to make pedaling down the road easier.

What's the consensus this year?

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[David Cummings]

Count me as another datapoint for setting up Hetres tubeless. I also did it in a pair of non-tubeless Grand Bois rims. Talk about an exercise in frustration. I initially got the front tire to set up, but my 7 year-old rim tape failed and I could never get that tire’s beads to seat again. Had to switch to a 38mm Gravel King SS+; it was noticeably less supple, but easier to set up tubeless. 

I finally got the rear Hetre to set up tubeless, but it took a lot of sealant and pumping up every other day. One overnight freeze caused the tire to go flat and break the bead-seating. Back to tubes. 

I ran that tubeless combo on the Cino for almost 100 miles of gravel and was not kind to the tires - I bombed some gnarly, rocky, rutted roads and they survived. I’d prefer RTP’s for those kind of roads, but they did just fine and i think I like them better on pavé. 

I will say that I loved the Hetres but I constantly worried that they were going flat, they were that supple. I was previously running Loup Loup Passes and the suppleness difference was discernable. Enough that I want 42’s on that bike from now on. (But I need to dimple the chain stays.) If only they came in a cream color…

Perhaps I’ll try the Pari Moto 42’s tubeless.  

David “Desperately sealing supple” in MT

[David Cummings]

Ha! I meant seeking, not sealing, but I think the freudian autocorrect is apropos. 

[daxo potato]

i too attempted to set up hetres tubeless. they were so loose and floppy (aka "supple") they didn't really touch the rim walls when mounted. compressed air just flowed out around nearly the entire rim circumference. 

what did i miss?

I'm baffled as to how to press the tyres against the rim from the inside, the only solution i had was some kind of expanding flexible material that would contain the air until the tyre was sufficiently expanded to catch the bead. and that's how i re-invented the inner tube. 

-Dave "tubed" in NY

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[etorg...@yahoo.com]

Dave wrote: 

I'm baffled as to how to press the tyres against the rim from the inside, the only solution i had was some kind of expanding flexible material that would contain the air until the tyre was sufficiently expanded to catch the bead. and that's how i re-invented the inner tube. 

You probably already know and tried this, but if you first set up your Hetre with a tube, then break one bead, remove the tube, insert the valve, and then go for the tubeless setup, at least one side is seated against the rim.  A high pressure, high volume compressor is then your best friend, as is some extra hands to either squoosh tires down against the rim, or to wrestle them over to the opposite bead. Some wire beaded tires still pop off, but I have only resorted to a little contact cement once.  

Eli

Who has a Hetre set up tubeless still with 10psi after 4 years on rinl in the garage.  

In Albuquerque 

[Will Boericke]

Running the Hetre tubeless sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, but maybe it works for you.

The last time I needed to make non-tubeless rims tubeless, I fabricated my own tubeless inserts out of foam (EDPM, maybe?).  This keeps the beads in place (burping was the problem on this wheelset - 26x2.25 for mountain biking).

Will near Boston

[Tyler Ryan]

I had this same issue setting up SimWorks Homage tires in 650b x 55 tubeless. There is a very easy way to work around this-

1. Put a tube in and inflate to max PSI. This will seat the bead on both sides.

2. I'm not sure this is necessary, but let this sit for a few hours. I'm guessing this lets the rubber expand and stretch which makes step 3 easier.

3. Remove the tube carefully from one side. Take extra caution to not unseat the bead from the other side.

4. Set up tubeless.

This worked both front and rear for me without any other fiddling.

[Harry Travis]

It seems Will has improvised his version of commercial products from Vittoria and a couple or few others. They sell for $60-$150 /pair. 

On a corrugated drum BRR found minor or substantively ignorable effects on rolling resistance. Of course he, like Will, was careful about installation. 

Not that I think BRR protocol is somehow invalid in real world use.

 

--

Harry P Travis

17.7

On Oct 21, 2024, at 7:50 AM, Will Boericke <wboe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Running the Hetre tubeless sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, but maybe it works for you.

The last time I needed to make non-tubeless rims tubeless, I fabricated my own tubeless inserts out of foam (EDPM, maybe?).  This keeps the beads in place (burping was the problem on this wheelset - 26x2.25 for mountain biking).

Will near Boston

On Sunday, October 20, 2024 at 3:51:13 PM UTC-4 etorg...@yahoo.com wrote:

Dave wrote: 

I'm baffled as to how to press the tyres against the rim from the inside, the only solution i had was some kind of expanding flexible material that would contain the air until the tyre was sufficiently expanded to catch the bead. and that's how i re-invented the inner tube. 

You probably already know and tried this, but if you first set up your Hetre with a tube, then break one bead, remove the tube, insert the valve, and then go for the tubeless setup, at least one side is seated against the rim.  A high pressure, high volume compressor is then your best friend, as is some extra hands to either squoosh tires down against the rim, or to wrestle them over to the opposite bead. Some wire beaded tires still pop off, but I have only resorted to a little contact cement once.  

Eli

Who has a Hetre set up tubeless still with 10psi after 4 years on rinl in the garage.  

In Albuquerque 

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[Alistair Spence]

On Mon, Oct 14, 2024 at 1:35 PM Josh Zielinski <josh.zi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Can Hetres be run tubeless?

A little late to this but as others have mentioned, Hetres can be run tubeless. I ran three bikes this way, on PAcenti SL23 rims, starting as an experiment in 2015 and lasting up until 2018 (when those bikes were unfortunately destroyed in a wildfire).

It's been a while since then and while I don't recall many of the specifics of if it was worth the effort I can definitely say that this setup worked. I was happy with tubes at the time but switched to tubeless mostly to see what all the fuss was about. One thing I do remember with the Hetes was that the sidewalls were much more porous than I was expecting, so it did take some fussing around to get them to seal up, https://www.flickr.com/photos/duncancycles/16334378636

It all worked in the end though, and was a reliable set up on three bikes as I said (example: https://www.flickr.com/photos/duncancycles/16219388677 )

Alistair Spence,

Seattle, WA

[Josh Zielinski]

Wow, yeah, that's porous! Thanks for sharing experience/images.

Sorry about the wildfire and losses.  At least you have pictures of the bikes and experience of building them up.

Josh Z
Oregon

[etorg...@yahoo.com]

The Hetre setup has been discussed on the iBob list previously.  Regarding the weeping, I wrote this:

"'Harry Travis wrote: Is there prep for these tires, a cleaning, that will help sealant from weeping through?

and

Even better, will a primer coat of another product do even better? If so, what are they?'

I think the answer is yes, sort of.  The most difficult tires to set up tubeless (in terms of weeping) for me have been Grand Bois Ecureuil followed by Grand Bois Hetre EL.  Neither are tubeless compatible and I would not recommend trying the Ecureuil.  I eventually won the battle with the Hetre's after paining the inside of the tire with Henry 663 Carpet Adhesive.  I think I applied three thin coats and let it dry for a week.  I just checked the tire.  It is down to about 15 lbs of pressure. I think it has been sitting in my garage for 4 years now.  

Henry 663 Ace hardware."

Eli

In Albuquerque

[Alistair Spence]

Josh,

Yes, losing the bikes was a shame but I had already gotten a lot of data from them and was getting ready to re-make them all, in order to correct the mistakes that I made in building the first batch, and incorporate the lessons I had learned.

It was really the loss of my shop, and the ability to continue to iterate, improve and make more bikes/stems/racks etc in the future that was a much harder loss to come to terms with. I'm still heavily involved with bicycles and it turns out that the lessons I learned from almost 20 years of teaching myself how to fabricate bike frames were not for naught.. A lot of that knowledge still has applications, now that I spend my time wrenching on bikes rather than fabricating them. In the end, it's all a lot of problem solving, which I enjoy.

Alistair

--

Alistair Spence,

Seattle, WA.