My impressions about Vathek

[Ebtehal AlHemayani]

Hello everyone,
Reading the tale has raised some points in my mind and I would like to
share them with you all.

1- I know that this tale is fictional and many incidents are really
not true, but since the name Vathek is a name of a real person, I dont
think that such extreme fictional scenes should be written! I have
read something about AlWathic from arabic and forieghn sources, I did
not find any horrible things he did. He was very generous to his
people especially to those who live in the two holy cities, he
punished those who had abandoned Islam, he was very interested in
knowldge and was so much benevolent and giving to scholars and their
types, and he encourages learning. He was a man who was fond of poetry
and siniging and he did compose a few songs. But, in general, there
was not any scandal that did affect his reputation as a Caliphat. In
the tale, he is pictured as a man who is almost like a tyarnnt in the
way he looks at people with his evil eye, punishing the scolars from
not accepting to be bribed, kidnapping Nourhinhar, and having so much
interest in magic.

2- The second point which I want to discuss is the idea of Harem and
how women are represented. I feel that this term is quite insulting to
me as a Muslim woman because it represents something negative about
Islam. To us, we do not see any kind of a bad message this term sends.
But the west thinks that this term represents the wife, mother,
sisters, daughters, female slaves, and the prostitutes of a Muslim
male. This term has become stereotypical of any Muslim woman as being
an inferior creature. One of the five palaces is tributed to "troops
of young females beautiful as the Houris and not less seducing". Those
beautiful women are somehow like objects that offer good "company" to
"whome the Caliph allowed to approach". Those women are also Vathek's
Harem and Nouronihar is his favorite. Also, women are pictured as evil
like Vathek's mother who encourages her son to make a pact with the
devil and Nour who seems to be convinced by Vathek's ambition to go to
the kingdom of darkness. Both women do not provide Vathek with any
sort of guidence to give up his plan and go back to his senses.

3- Over again, Muslims are pictured as people who are so much
interested in magic and black arts. Vathek is obssessed with the idea
of gaining supernatural powers and will do anything possible to gain
them. His mother, Carathis is involved in magic, burns bodies and
encourages Vathek to continue his pact with Giaour.

4- It is very astonishing to see how Islam is viewed in the tale, it
is viewed as if it prevents its people to know and to learn about
astronomy. On the contrary, Islam encourages people to look and wonder
about God's creations and His excellence in creating the celectial
bodies. There are many Quraanic verses that call Muslims to wonder to
deeply think about the stars and planest in the space to witness God's
wisdom, and might.
[سَنُرِيهِمْ آيَاتِنَا فِي الْآفَاقِ وَفِي أَنْفُسِهِمْ حَتَّى
يَتَبَيَّنَ لَهُمْ أَنَّهُ الْحَقُّ أَوَلَمْ يَكْفِ بِرَبِّكَ أَنَّهُ
عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ شَهِيدٌ [فصلت:53]}.
Reading this verse really makes me remeber this line taken from the
tale: “Woe to the rash mortal who seeks to know that of which he
should remain ignorant, and to undertake that which surpasses his
power”.

5- This tale reminds me of Chirstopher Marlow's Dr. Faustus because
both heroes seek to have supernatural powers and make a pact with the
devil or his sevants.

That is all I have got. I may come back later with other ideas.
Thank you.

[rama]

Salam everyone

I hope that everyone of us is having a really quality time during this
weekend.

First of all, I must admit that reading Vathek was not an easy task
for me, and when I got started with it and could get till p10. I got
baffled and had to reread it from the beginning. Then when I got
further with the story, I realized the cause of my former feeling. I
got the feeling that Beckford just tries to blend other works in this
piece, I could see some traces first, of course, from the Arabian
Nights, and that was from the very beginning, with the mention of
(Haroun Al- Raschid), Marlow's Dr. Faustus, with Vathek's great desire
for Knowledge. I notice so far that the narrative technique that is
used is the third person narrator, but somehow his narration lacks
clarification & even information, that he tells us nothing about the
characters' thoughts & feelings, which helps also in my former feeling
of confusion. There is also no development of characters, no depth,
no clear showing of motives to these characters, that it seems really
odd how these characters behave, that Vathek appears somehow caring
for his people, then he sacrifices with 50 children, and then when
that happens his mother Carathis asks Morakanabad to defend her son,
who also sacrifices with the latter's son, and that he really stand
for those furious parents. Another point, the description given of
Gulchenrouz as "the most delicate and lovely creature in the world" as
if he presented a female character not male.

About the descriptions of Vathek and his lavish style of living
with five palaces for the five senses, and his sensual desires just to
stereotype the Caliph as how they like to picture us. And mainly, I
see that a major part of this novel is written just to customize the
Arab characters as how they see them. And while I was proceeding
reading I felt that Beckford wanted to personify the seven deadly sins
in the character of Vathek; up till now I found (extravagance, lust,
gluttony, greed, & pride) so he is imposing their own Christian
ideology in a so called Muslim character. Besides the mention of the
prophet (pbuh) as a protector & a savor, so he pictures him (pbuh) as
how they picture Jesus.

Also, Beckford's use of a sarcastic tone with any mention of Qur'an or
an Islamic ritual. And also another demolished depiction of the women
who are around Vathek, as in picturing them in Cages while they were
on the road away from Samara.

I have another notice regarding the 50 children whom Vathek sacrifices
with, I know that when a person wants to do something horrible, he
usually starts with something small, let me say kill one child, in
this case, but 50, this is really unwise idea of the author.

Then, I think that I'll stop here, so that I can find other points to
discuss in the class.

Have a nice time…every time.

> [ÓóäõÑöíåöãú ÂíóÇÊöäóÇ Ýöí ÇáúÂÝóÇÞö æóÝöí ÃóäúÝõÓöåöãú ÍóÊøóì
> íóÊóÈóíøóäó áóåõãú Ãóäøóåõ ÇáúÍóÞøõ Ãóæóáóãú íóßúÝö ÈöÑóÈøößó Ãóäøóåõ
> Úóáóì ßõáøö ÔóíúÁò ÔóåöíÏñ [ÝÕáÊ:53]}.

[Riham Alam]

Dear Dr. Rajih and friends,
Iliked both ideas, the Friday cession and the extra class hour.
Both ideas suited me but the extra hour in class is better though
since we are all going to be gathered and there won't be technical
problems as Ebtihal suggested.
As for Vathek I liked a lot Ebtihal's comments and you've saved
me time in writing some information about the story itself. I'd like
to add that while reading this novella , I kept matching it with two
other major works: the great play of Dr. Faustus by Marlow and The
Arabian Nights tales.
The constant themes in The Arabian Nights focused on Lust,
lascivious sensuality, tyranny and inherited violence. Vathek seemed
to portray the same images of the Arabian Nights. Vathek was tyrant,
villain, violent, assassinate and lascivious.
The other resemblance was with Dr. Faustus's play. The resembling
points are:
Both the caliph and Dr. Faustus had this great ultimate desire in
seeking forbidden knowledge by the assistance of the devils.
Both made a pact with the devil and presented scarifications.
Both were damned for eternity.
Both renounced their religion and worshipped the devil.
Both were punished by Grief, torment and self lamentations in their
last hours.
Giaour was a jinni that assisted his great master Eblis in Vathek ,
Mephastophilis the satan who assisted the prince of devils in Dr.
Faustus. Both assistants dragged their victims to their damnations.
The shepherd advice or warnings from the Devil in Vathek and the
scholars in Dr. Faustus.
The Prophet Solomon in Vathek resembled the Pope character in Dr.
Faustus. They both symbolized the religious faith and presented their
previous experience as a warning.
Obviously William Beckford was greatly influenced by Marlow's
play. I've discovered all these resemblances on my own . Can you find
any other?
About this novella and the representation of the image of Islam,
it was clearly distorted and misrepresented. The Western reader will
certainly be misguided by this novella because of the tricky way in
mixing the extensive historical names and explanatory notes with wrong
fictions. The western reader will surely take this work as an accurate
account of the Eastern world. In Vathek, Islam was the core target,
the image was successfully distorted and the facts were extremely
falsified.
It was a fact that Al-Wathiq ( vathek) was a great scholar and an
artist, but in Vathek his personality was heavily fictionalized in an
exaggerative way mingled with a gothic fantacy. This was one of the
most famous methods which had been adopted by the enemies of Islam in
order to distort the image of Islam. Thousands of other works used the
same procedure under the mask of Oriental fascination.
Finally, in class my presentation will focus on reading the major
parts that severely misrepresented Islam especially about the prophet
Muhammad, Edris al Shfaei, prophet Solomon, the Koran and Monker and
Nekir.
Great regards, Riham

> > Thank you.- إخفاء النص المقتبس -
>
> - عرض النص المقتبس -

[Jehan Al-Maghamsi]

Here are some points I found interesting on reading Vathek:

1. As we have read in Smith's book that the Arabian Nights had major
influence
on the writings of the Western writers, we see here the impact of the
Nights
on this tale. Magic, geniis, dwarfs and even the character of Haroun
Al-Rasheed
are discussed by Beckford in the book.

2. Vathek resemblance to Dr. Faustus in his search for enlightenment
and knowledge
but I think the difference lies in the goals of these two characters:
Faustus
wanted knowledge for the sake of enlightenment while Vathek wanted
knowledge to
gain power to do evil in the world.

3. I also noticed the interest of astrology in Vathek and his mother.
They build a tower to consult the stars, make sacrifices at the alter
of evil
and led in a way of destruction by old prophesies. The truth is that
Muslims
are only interested in astronomy which is a science that is concerned
with the
observation of the motions of heavenly bodies and reducing these
observations to
mathematical order while astrology, which refers to the study of the
supposed effects
the movements of these celestial bodies have on human affairs, is
prohibited.
Ibn `Uthaymeen, said:
“Astrology is a kind of sorcery and fortune-telling. It is forbidden
because it is based
on illusions, not on concrete facts. There is no relation between the
movements of
celestial bodies and what takes place on the Earth.”

4. We also see that Beckford is influenced by the old beliefs about
about Islam and
the Prophet as in his detailed descriptions of Vathek's palaces, his
love for women
and luxuries, and his search for sensual pleasures which only serve
to show Muslims
as immoral people led by lust.

[Nuha B.]

Hello Dr. Rajih and colleagues,
While Vathek has been interesting to read so far, I do agree that the
way Muslims are represented is in a mostly unfavorable light. Vathek
in particular is shown to be a man who loves to live a life of excess.
He loves woman, gambling, food, and alcohol. Not to mention that the
many palaces he has indicates that he is extremely extravagant.
Also, the women in the story seem to fall into two categories: the
helpless women who are there solely to please the men (I especially
found the part where they don’t know how to walk and have to learn how
to use their feet absurd), and the other type is the evil, capricious
woman who dabbles in the dark arts.
Also one can not help but notice that the allusions to Islam in the
novel are numerous; there is mention of the prophet Muhammad (PBUH),
Mecca, Muezins and prayer. So it does seem like the writer was fairly
knowledgeable about Islam, and yet he chose to focus on the
stereotypes that prevailed at the time. Again, the reason he did so
could be because this what the public wanted and expected.
Although the story does seem rooted in the fantastical and I agree
with Ebtehal that it reminds one of Dr. Faustus, the representation of
an arrogant, bloodthirsty Muslim man, who “abjures Mohamet” in able to
be more powerful and knowledgeable, is one that does not do much to
represent Islam and Muslims in a fair and positive way.

On 10 ديسمبر, 20:22, Ebtehal AlHemayani <ebt....@gmail.com> wrote:

> [ÓóäõÑöíåöãú ÂíóÇÊöäóÇ Ýöí ÇáúÂÝóÇÞö æóÝöí ÃóäúÝõÓöåöãú ÍóÊøóì
> íóÊóÈóíøóäó áóåõãú Ãóäøóåõ ÇáúÍóÞøõ Ãóæóáóãú íóßúÝö ÈöÑóÈøößó Ãóäøóåõ

> Úóáóì ßõáøö ÔóíúÁò ÔóåöíÏñ [ÝÕáÊ:53]}.

[Iman alshehri]

 I noticed that William Beckford chose to present the East in the manner in which he does.  The text therefore reinforces, stereotypes, and provides nothing new in Western literature about the East, but it follows the previous negative view.

Negatively, he describes Vathek, the  grandson of Haroun-al-Raschid, who was famous for Arabs and Muslims by his religious devotion and his encouragement for learning, as a man who is terrible in anger, exceedingly generous and his greatest pleasures were woman, wine . He  was especially addicted to the pleasures of the table. Furthermore, he is pictured as  a tyrannical  Arabian sultan who was willing to do anything to satisfy his wants. He resembles Faustus in tring  to master the sciences and the deep secrets of the world .

I will continue reading it and come back to share other ideas.

[Sumaiyah T]

Vathek the novel is a reflection of, as Beckford fantasies, the political and religious corruption and the "chaos" that dominated the Muslims society, including the Commander of Faithful Vathek. From the opening of the novel and Beckford did not miss any chance to present the Muslim Caliph as ugly as possible. He never hesitates to attack religion. Even the Muezzins were not safe from his lame criticism. The Azan was used as a shield to cover the flaws committed by the Muslims. 1- Vathek is an evil character, an enemy of his own self and the enemy of the populace. He is pictured a womanizer and a spendthrift. His excessive thirst and greed for knowledge resembles Marlowe's Dr. Faustus. I believe that he loses his innocence without a hope to recover it when he assists the Indian to stop his thirst by feeding him the blood of 50 children. From my point of view, Vathek seems to be suffering of personality dissociation. He has two different personalities: A - The man in charge who exactly knows what to do next and how to execute his evil plans. He is the astrologer who is in the mission of exploring what is beyond the real life. B - He is the little confused brat who is capable of achieving nothing when his mother is around. He is dependent on her to protect him and to console him when he fails to fulfill his desires. 2- The representation of women in this novel varies. First, Vathek's mother the Greek Carathis. She is a woman of authority, well educated and quite skilled in black magic. She is a member of the Royal family. To me, she is another version if vicious Lady Macbeth. She plays a major role in pushing her son forward to reach the extreme knowledge he fancies. She is the one who planted the fondness of astrology in Vathek. And whenever he loses his temper she approaches him with a sweet motherly tone, and encourages him to hold a grip of his tantrums. The second type, Beckford employs them to attack the holy matrimony that bounds the Vathek with his harems. They are presented as concubines more than the Commander of Faithfull's wives. At last, the Negresses are used to imply that Muslims are "Racist" and they tend to enslave the black to be the servants of their evil deeds. 3- The use of black magic to arouse a sense of orientalism. And in order bestow a Gothic sense bloody scenes and suspense are held in a thrilling manner. So, far these are my first impression and I hope that I will come up with more ideas after tomorrow's class. All the best!

[layla asrar]

Hi every one
Vathek is supposed to be about a Muslim caliph and a Muslim
community, but could we feel the difference. I mean what distinguish
it as an Islamic tale; it will work if we suppose it talks about an
Indian king or a Persian ruler, or even a Chinese emperor !
The background of the tale in a Muslim's society has not been
emphasized enough. If I was a stranger and wanted to know more about
Islam, Vathek would not satisfy my curiosity, it would confuse me.
When Shakespeare wrote his plays about the Greek, for example Julius
Caesar, we could feel their spirits, and understand their moral
beliefs or attitudes. The author needs to give the essence of the
culture that he wants to draw in his work; otherwise, he should save
the trouble and writes about a culture which he is more acquainted
with.
While reading Vathek, it appears to me that the author is trying to
collect all the vicious legends about the prophet peace be upon him,
and he personified them in the character of Vathek:
1- Vathek tried to acquire an eminent power through magic and he was
supported by the magical power of his mother, exactly as the prophet
who was portrayed as a magician and was aided by his wife.
2- Vathek is driven by the two impulses of ambitious and lust, and
this is one of the famous accusations, which are held against our
prophet.
3- Vathek built a paradise on earth, which appeared as a replica of
the paradise that the prophet described.
4- Thus, it was not a surprise to find that the prophet supported
Vathek and watch him from above. Here the author exposes the
resemblance of the two great figures and he joined them with all the
negative attributes that he ever imagined.
I think that Vathek needs more depth, more reasons and more study to
the behavior of the characters. The characters are dull and shallow.
The author failed to approach the character in more convincing way, he
seems to narrate a memorized tale which needs no further explanation
for its strangeness, since it is about Muslims, no needs for reasons!
He did not give any reason why such magnificent caliph choose to leave
all his kingdom and seek further inferior power, or why Vathek's
mother needs to practice magic though she is in a powerful position as
the mother of the caliph!
The narrative seems to follow one single direction: sun rises, Vathek
eats, meets people, gets angry, screams and kicks his subjects,
someone soothe him, Vathek eats food, sleeps, the moon appears! The
same order of events are repeated in the narrative without any
explanation or preparation, we are trapped between Vathek unexplained
anger, and his unbelievable appetite.
One important objection I must raise, women are not silly or worthless
as they are portrayed. The image of women travelling in cage, who
cannot or do not know how to walk, is an unfair and a degrading
representation of any women on earth, and especially to the Muslim's
woman. Our ideal is Fatimah whose hands hardened and her back ached
because of the toil of daily life.

On 10 ديسمبر, 20:22, Ebtehal AlHemayani <ebt....@gmail.com> wrote:

> [ÓóäõÑöíåöãú ÂíóÇÊöäóÇ Ýöí ÇáúÂÝóÇÞö æóÝöí ÃóäúÝõÓöåöãú ÍóÊøóì
> íóÊóÈóíøóäó áóåõãú Ãóäøóåõ ÇáúÍóÞøõ Ãóæóáóãú íóßúÝö ÈöÑóÈøößó Ãóäøóåõ

> Úóáóì ßõáøö ÔóíúÁò ÔóåöíÏñ [ÝÕáÊ:53]}.

[Mona Al-khidaidy]

Hello Dr. Rajih and colleagues

It is really nice to be online again and to be back to the group. i
have read Vathek and I came up with those impressions. :)

I don’t know if the fame of this work is because of Beckford's
powerful or skillful depiction of the Eastern culture and society or
because of his ability to fulfill the appetite of the 18th century's
readers who were entranced by oriental tales. By combining the
oriental elements with Gothic elements he could create one of the most
distinguishable works in the 18th century .Literary resources agree
that Beckford's Vathek is one of the most distinguishable works that
imitate the Arabian nights. Thus it represented a typical Western
point of view concerning East and Eastern. They see us as people who
are always seeking worldly pleasures such as women and wine. In the
story Vathek is an addict on the sensual pleasures so he has added 5
palaces for the gratification of each of the senses: "Eternal banquet
palace which is full of food and liquors, the temple of melody which
is full of musician, the delight of the eyes which is a vast museum,
the palace of perfumes which contains all the perfumes on the world
and contains all kinds of flowers and finally the Retreat of Mirth, or
the Dangerous which has beautiful and seductive women." The westerns
always view the East as the world of charms, and its constant
association with magic, witchcraft and the metaphysics has always
fascinated them.
The character of Vathek is represented as a tyrant caliph who puts his
needs ahead of his people and who is highly interested in gaining the
forbidden knowledge. In this sense, Vathek reminds me of Dr. Faustus
and his excessive request for knowledge. I think Beckford
misrepresented the idea of seeking knowledge from an Islamic angle.
Furthermore, I think he represented it from a Medieval Christian
angle. Because unlike the Medieval Christianity, Islam encourages
Muslims to seek knowledge; seeking knowledge should strengthen your
faith not the opposite. Beckford says " that the condition of man upon
earth is to be – humble and ignorant”, and here I remember the verse
in the Holy Qura'an that says ( انما يخشى الله من عباده العلماء )
فاطر 28. One thing that differs from Dr. Faustus is the idea of
repentance; at the end Dr. Faustus had a chance to repent and be saved
by his religion but Vathek and his companions have lost "the most
precious gift granted by heaven - HOPE".
Finally, one last thing that caught my attention is how he
misrepresented women. He corrupted the most pure image of women in
Islam which is the image of the mother. The Muslim mother should raise
up her children very well and be sure always to show them the right
path and guide them to the good deeds. But Beckford here represented
Vathek's mother, Carathis, as tyrant as her son if not even more; she
pushes her son to his damnation till the end of the story! He
represented women as objects just to please the caliph, which is
insulting to Muslim women because Islam respects and protects women.