CCR First Draft Discussion

[Alexander Esseveld]

Creating a thread to discuss the first draft (expected ~Oct 11th)

In-person sessions will be posted on this Calendar, and the first one is tentatively scheduled for Oct 21, 2024, from 5-7pm.

[Alexander Esseveld]

We have received the first draft of the revised governing documents from A|S. There are many significant changes that we did not initially anticipate especially regarding HOA/owner responsibility. As one of California's premier HOA legal firms, my hope is that we can collectively evaluate their recommendations with an open mind. Personally, I can see some clear advantages for us members reducing costs and protecting our funds and property value.

One quick caveat regarding the pet/dog breed section: A|S included a more restrictive option for our consideration, and we already anticipate removing those provisions.

Let's use this thread to discuss!

Kind Regards,
Alex Essveld (HOA Board Member)

[Alexander Esseveld]

A question was asked regarding the washing of cars and whether the draft was too restrictive or perhaps conflicting with itself.

10.11 Washing of Vehicles. Except as provided for in the Rules and Regulations, washing or detailing vehicles in the Development is prohibited. 

I think this is one of those strategic catch-alls, essentially saying it's prohibited unless it's allowed in the Rules & Regulations (R&Rs). We can clarify, but I'm pretty sure they do this to protect against a future oddball tenant or owner who has a disruptive way of washing or detailing his or her vehicle. For example, they have some elaborate new or invented contraption in the alleyway or operate a crazy-loud loud power washer at 7 am on a Sunday. They could say it's permitted because the CC&Rs allow for the washing of cars and do not exclude using such devices. It's much easier to enforce if the R&R don't specifically allow it, and if need be, the R&Rs are much easier to adjust as community needs change.

The City of Hermosa's guidelines on water conservation were also passed along: https://www.hermosabeach.gov/our-government/city-departments/city-manager/environmental-programs/water-conservation. I think we should take these into consideration when drafting our new R&Rs, especially the things we can do to help protect our ocean and marine life.

[Alexander Esseveld]

Thank you all for the great turnout at both of our community sessions! I've included both documents marked up with our consolidated input for further discussion with the attorneys. If you have any other input you feel is missed, please reply to this thread before October 10!

Thank you :)

CC&Rs - Marked with Comments

By-Laws - Marked with Comments

[Judith A. Mango]

Section 10.6 Proper Operating Condition

Good morning, Alex.  

In the large parking lot there are two 1970’s-ish vans that have expired registrations (2022/2023) and it seems they have been just sitting there for years.  It is possible that they are not covered by insurance.  If any type of accident or injury were to occur involving these vehicles, 

the responsibility may fall on the Association or residents. Something to get clarification on.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "501CCRs" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to 501ccrs+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/501ccrs/6ee1493e-59e8-4571-8137-93a69972e153n%40googlegroups.com.

[Alexander Esseveld]

We can get clarity, but 10.6 also states that vehicles must be insured by the owner. In this specific scenario, 10.2 would also be in effect so the HOA can manage equitable access to the limited 42 spaces within the complex.

-Alex

[Alexander Esseveld]

Notes from our meeting with the A|S on the first drafts.

HOA/Owner Responsibilities: Our attorneys suggested a significant change in our CC&Rs to shift the responsibilities of exclusive use utilities onto the owners. Their rationale was to ensure the HOA isn't obligated to acquire an insurance policy it can no longer afford if premiums keep rising. Carefully evaluating the options, our committee's current position is still leaning towards maintaining our current status quote of keeping the HOA responsible for water and drains within shared walls. We have a meeting with a licensed adjustor where the community can ask additional questions to evaluate our options further (Tues. Oct 29)

Windows: Given that many homeowners have already upgraded their windows, the most equitable solution is to transfer the responsibility for repairing and maintaining all windows components to the owners. This approach:

• Encourages owners to upgrade their units without penalty, increasing all property values.
• Encourages owners to utilize the lifetime warranty of their upgraded windows.
• Prevents membership funds from being used for owner-initiated improvements.
• Addresses issues with disclosures when units are sold.
• The original construction windows have had little to no issues, so the impact on owners of the original windows should be minimal.

Here's a copy of the first draft, with notes from our attorney conversation.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t4-FFYC8RU5gSrfGolwieAxDL7Ll1fwV/view?usp=drive_link

[Greg Busch]

Commenting on the 10.11 - vehicle washing prohibition

My opinion, this should stay in as it's explicitly banned in many CA regs. The correct place to wash cars is at a carwash that has the correct permits for water discharge/recovery. The reasoning behind it may not be readily apparent, but it's to prevent accumulated oily debris from roads/tires/combustion particulate/etc from draining into waterways and the ocean. Vehicle washing that goes into a storm drain is typically considered an unpermitted "nonstormwater discharge" unless you have a permit specifically to do so. Companies get fined for this when it's discovered, but individual activity isn't specifically exempt either. 

Something we do at work for facilities that want to allow carwashing without requiring discharge permits is we'll have a policy that requires all wastewater to be fully contained and recovered such that it cannot go to a storm drain. That's that type of provision we could bake into our Rules and Regs if we wanted. 

[Greg Busch]

I'm curious about the logic behind the advice to shift insurance responsibilities from the HOA to the individual owners. We need insurance coverage whether it's one policy as an HOA or 75 individual policies as owners, I'm not really seeing how it's a cost savings to have 75 individual policies vs our current 1 for the HOA? I'd assume we have stronger bargaining power as a single larger corporate entity than 75 individual owners.  

-Greg

[Alexander Esseveld]

Hey Greg,
The idea came from our attorneys but has received little support from anyone thus far. The overarching concern (from members who have weighed in) is that it'd quickly deteriorate our quality of life, as neighbors would be suing each other for the liability to cover the costs of leaks and repairs, etc. Multiple parties would also quickly complicate insurance claims. I've also heard (yet to be verified) that homeowners are quickly being dropped after filing claims and have difficulty finding new policies.

Our attorneys suggested this shift of ownership of exclusive use utilities to keep HOA premiums down and not force the HOA into a premium it cannot afford, especially if premiums in CA continue to climb. We've been paying all leaks and water damage out of our dues, and doing so has kept our HOA premium comparatively low thus far, but we've been paying an average of $465/unit/yr.

-Alex