This is why I hate the telephone!
John Mayson
television for being a "monkey wrench" to productivity.
Case in point. I have a desk phone and a cell phone. I was on a
conference call on my desk phone. I get a call on my cell phone which
I let go to voice mail. This call was from "Person A". I then see a
voice mail appear on my desk phone (which is tied up by the conference
call). It's from "Person B" who is telling me "Person A" is trying to
get a hold of me. HELLO!! "Person A" left me a voice mail. I know
this already.
And to add to it, while I was listening to one of the voice mails, I
got yet even more voice mail because "Person C" called while I was
checking voice mail. I call people back. But being human beings,
they ramble on and on, so I now have another voice mail because
someone called while I was listening the "Person D".
I don't know what the problem is. The technology or the users. I
guess it's the users, but I find people tend to get to the point more
on email because it's harder to type than talk.
Sorry, I'm just ranting. I feel like I spend too much time checking
voice mails left by people while I'm checking voice mail and 75% of
the time the voice mail is useless.
Have a good weekend!
John
--
John Mayson <jo...@mayson.us>
Austin, Texas, USA
Dennis C. During
Oral/aural communication relies on mostly sequential access and can be very
ambiguous (at the level of clarity of sound and clarity of speech). E-mail
can be rapidly scanned and is much less ambiguous, as well as being cheaper
and leaving a permanent record.
Just about the only things that phone has going for it IMHO are:
1. It is warmer in terms of human contact.
2. It requires less learned skill (typing, thinking ?)
3. There are telephone directories so that more folks can find you (if
that's a plus).
Dennis C. During
"To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law
into contempt." - Elizabeth Cady Stanton, American women's rights advocate
(1815-1902)
John Mayson
second time I've written an email and had it blank out on me.
John Mayson
Gary Slinger
-----Original Message-----
From: "John Mayson" <jo...@mayson.us>
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 16:22:46
To:43Fo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [43F Group] Re: This is why I hate the telephone!
John Mayson
On Jun 15, 2007, at 4:31 PM, Gary Slinger wrote:
>
> We are familiar with the definition of "beta", I take it?
I have Macs at home and thought I'd try the Windows version. Good
lord, it's *SO* bad. I know it's beta, but good grief.
Jennifer Spedowfski-Martin
AndyH
every other call!!
On Jun 16, 3:57 am, "Jennifer Spedowfski-Martin"
<jdawnsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> John,
> I work in the Logistics and Processing department of a major recycling
> center and what I find happening, no joke, is this:
> 1-Desk phone rings.
> 2-As I am trying to politely get the desk phone person to the point, the
> work cell starts ringing.
> 3-I answer the work cell right before it goes to voicemail. As I'm trying
> to get that person to their point (do you need a bin routed for pick up?
> does a compactor need fixing? If so, are they full or do you just need me
> to route a tech?)....
> 4-The desk phone starts to ring...and inevitably it is from someone that I
> actually might like talking to.
> 5-Then hubby calls and tells me how *crappy* his day is going. Oy!
>
> There have been days when I've yelled, "I'm going to throw one of these
> phones out the effing window!" Which wouldn't help all that much
> considering my office trailer is in a warehouse. I'd still hear it. Some
> people deep breathe...I take to cussing. Which is why it is good that I
> work with truckers.
>
> :o) Jen
>
> On 6/15/07, John Mayson <j...@mayson.us> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I personally think the telephone is possibly only second to the
> > television for being a "monkey wrench" to productivity.
>
> > Case in point. I have a desk phone and a cell phone. I was on a
> > conference call on my desk phone. I get a call on my cell phone which
> > I let go to voice mail. This call was from "Person A". I then see a
> > voice mail appear on my desk phone (which is tied up by the conference
> > call). It's from "Person B" who is telling me "Person A" is trying to
> > get a hold of me. HELLO!! "Person A" left me a voice mail. I know
> > this already.
>
> > And to add to it, while I was listening to one of the voice mails, I
> > got yet even more voice mail because "Person C" called while I was
> > checking voice mail. I call people back. But being human beings,
> > they ramble on and on, so I now have another voice mail because
> > someone called while I was listening the "Person D".
>
> > I don't know what the problem is. The technology or the users. I
> > guess it's the users, but I find people tend to get to the point more
> > on email because it's harder to type than talk.
>
> > Sorry, I'm just ranting. I feel like I spend too much time checking
> > voice mails left by people while I'm checking voice mail and 75% of
> > the time the voice mail is useless.
>
> > Have a good weekend!
> > John
>
> > --
> > John Mayson <j...@mayson.us>
> > Austin, Texas, USA
WastedDesigns
Here is my "solution." I don't answer phones. My reasoning is two
fold:
1) If it is important, they will leave a message.
2) My time is no less important than the caller's timme. By expecting
my to answer your every ring on demand, you as the caller are valuing
your time higher than mine, and that is not the case.
I pair this with the "check email/vmail during set times approach". I
explain this on my vmail recording. "Hi. You have reached Gabe. Im
working right now... most likely on what you are calling about. Leave
me as detailed of a message as possible. I will return your call
during my next available break. My breaks are scheduled for 9am, noon,
and 3pm. Thanks."
Is this approach with out flaw... certainly not. Most of my extended
family think Im an a$$ cause I never just "call to chat." Im OK with
that. If you want to chat, invite me over for dinner, or to the bar
for drinks, or to a show, whatever... schedule it with me. I'll try to
come up with something interesting to talk about then.
The only times I break this policy is when my wife calls, or someone
that I am expecting to call (confrence calls, client with a fast
approaching or moving deadline, etc...)
I also try to leave messages that are how I would like to receive
them. "Hey Joe. I just wanted to touch base with you about that
Graphic for client A. I have the layout ready, and Im just waiting on
your image. E-mail it to me when you have it. No need to call back
unless you have a problem."
This way people start to see how this can work. I do not want Joe to
call me and say that it will be done by 4. He knows the deadline. When
it shows up in my box, communication accomplished.
There is my two cents from my lurker corner.
Gabe
Evan Edwards
> Just about the only things that phone has going for it IMHO are:
>
> 1. It is warmer in terms of human contact.
I'm very active on a community wiki (daviswiki.org -- don't
think "Wikipedia", but more "virtual town hall/town square"). When a new
business owner or editor gets confused as to how the wiki community works
(usually by trying to delete reviews), I've discovered that the process can
be either days of back and forth via messages on-line, or a two minute phone
call in which I can answer their questions directly. It reminds them that
there's another human being on the other side.
We've also found that when people disagree about an edit, the best
solution is for them to pick a coffee shop somewhere in town and have
everybody who has an opinion on the matter sit down for half an hour. Not
only does it have a direct effect of solving any edit issues, it reinforces
the human connection between editors. With over 10,000 editors active, we
have only ever had one administrative ban, and that was a fellow from two
towns over who actually asked to be banned (he was having a hard time in
life, possibly some addition issues).
Spoken voice, or face to face time with somebody new creates an instant
relationship that can't be duplicated on-line.
As an aside, I've been posting, sending and putting up my phone number on
the internet since before the world wide web existed. I have never had any
problems, and a few times I've received some nice calls from various people
in groups I'm a member of.
--
Evan "JabberWokky" Edwards
http://www.cheshirehall.org/
615.517.6900
John Mayson
Hash: SHA1
On Jun 15, 2007, at 3:58 PM, Dennis C. During wrote:
>
> I'm with you, John.
>
> Oral/aural communication relies on mostly sequential access and can
> be very
> ambiguous (at the level of clarity of sound and clarity of
> speech). E-mail
> can be rapidly scanned and is much less ambiguous, as well as being
> cheaper
> and leaving a permanent record.
Too often in my life people have "amnesia" about verbal
communications. If the conversation was important enough, I follow-
up with an email. Sometimes people will try to claim they never said
that, but only weeks later, not after I send the email. Over time
people have trusted my emails versus others' memory.
>
> Just about the only things that phone has going for it IMHO are:
>
> 1. It is warmer in terms of human contact.
There's always a time for phone calls. If you have an upset
customer, you need to pick up the phone.
>
> 2. It requires less learned skill (typing, thinking ?)
>
> 3. There are telephone directories so that more folks can find you
> (if
> that's a plus).
It's not. :-)
On Jun 15, 2007, at 9:57 PM, Jennifer Spedowfski-Martin wrote:
> John,
> I work in the Logistics and Processing department of a major
> recycling center and what I find happening, no joke, is this:
> 1-Desk phone rings.
> 2-As I am trying to politely get the desk phone person to the
> point, the work cell starts ringing.
> 3-I answer the work cell right before it goes to voicemail. As I'm
> trying to get that person to their point (do you need a bin routed
> for pick up? does a compactor need fixing? If so, are they full
> or do you just need me to route a tech?)....
> 4-The desk phone starts to ring...and inevitably it is from someone
> that I actually might like talking to.
> 5-Then hubby calls and tells me how *crappy* his day is going. Oy!
Sounds like my day. I have this theory that telephones are sentient
and feel jealous when the other phone is being used, so they ring. :-)
>
> There have been days when I've yelled, "I'm going to throw one of
> these phones out the effing window!" Which wouldn't help all that
> much considering my office trailer is in a warehouse. I'd still
> hear it. Some people deep breathe...I take to cussing. Which is
> why it is good that I work with truckers.
I have come close to tossing mine. But someone would just give it back.
On Jun 16, 2007, at 8:21 AM, AndyH wrote:
>
> Only ever have one source of telephone contact and then only answer
> every other call!!
I know this was to Jennifer, but...
I only give out my cell phone number. I don't want to be tied to my
desk. However in the company directory my desk phone is listed
first. Also it's easier to dial a 4-digit extension over 9 plus
seven digits for my cell.
On Jun 16, 2007, at 12:09 PM, WastedDesigns wrote:
>
> Im with you John,
> Here is my "solution." I don't answer phones. My reasoning is two
> fold:
> 1) If it is important, they will leave a message.
> 2) My time is no less important than the caller's timme. By expecting
> my to answer your every ring on demand, you as the caller are valuing
> your time higher than mine, and that is not the case.
I really think people from executives down to the "worker bees" need
coaching on this.
My work voice mail system is tied into our email. I can see who
called and if they left a message. I had one engineer who would call
my desk phone, literally, every 5 to 7 minutes, but would hang-up
giving me a zero second message. He would never page me (I only had
a pager at the time). So now it's suddenly my "job" to go hunt this
guy down. What did he need that warranted a dozen calls over an
hour? I end up spending 10 minutes paging, calling, walking around
to find him. It's nonsense!
I also wish people would follow my "directions" on my announcement
and leave a brief message with their name, number, and why they
called. I shouldn't have to tell people to do that. I might not
recognize your voice. I might not know your number. And if you
don't tell me why you called, I don't know how quickly I should
return your call. Grrrrrr!
>
> I pair this with the "check email/vmail during set times approach". I
> explain this on my vmail recording. "Hi. You have reached Gabe. Im
> working right now... most likely on what you are calling about. Leave
> me as detailed of a message as possible. I will return your call
> during my next available break. My breaks are scheduled for 9am, noon,
> and 3pm. Thanks."
I didn't think about times. Hmmm..... That's a good idea.
>
> Is this approach with out flaw... certainly not. Most of my extended
> family think Im an a$$ cause I never just "call to chat." Im OK with
> that. If you want to chat, invite me over for dinner, or to the bar
> for drinks, or to a show, whatever... schedule it with me. I'll try to
> come up with something interesting to talk about then.
Same here. I even had a good friend who didn't understand why I
wouldn't call him and chat for an hour. Really. Uh... well... you
know. I do have a job. A family. I just don't have that kind of time.
>
> The only times I break this policy is when my wife calls, or someone
> that I am expecting to call (confrence calls, client with a fast
> approaching or moving deadline, etc...)
>
> I also try to leave messages that are how I would like to receive
> them. "Hey Joe. I just wanted to touch base with you about that
> Graphic for client A. I have the layout ready, and Im just waiting on
> your image. E-mail it to me when you have it. No need to call back
> unless you have a problem."
I try leading by example like that. It never works. :-P
>
> This way people start to see how this can work. I do not want Joe to
> call me and say that it will be done by 4. He knows the deadline. When
> it shows up in my box, communication accomplished.
>
> There is my two cents from my lurker corner.
It was good input. Thanks. I'm glad my end-of-the-week rant is
drawing out some good communication.
On Jun 16, 2007, at 4:24 PM, Evan Edwards wrote:
>
> On Friday 15 June 2007, Dennis C. During wrote:
>> Just about the only things that phone has going for it IMHO are:
>>
>> 1. It is warmer in terms of human contact.
>
> I'm very active on a community wiki (daviswiki.org -- don't
> think "Wikipedia", but more "virtual town hall/town square"). When
> a new
> business owner or editor gets confused as to how the wiki community
> works
> (usually by trying to delete reviews), I've discovered that the
> process can
> be either days of back and forth via messages on-line, or a two
> minute phone
> call in which I can answer their questions directly. It reminds
> them that
> there's another human being on the other side.
That's the downside to email. We sometimes forget there is a human
being at the receiving end. Most people at the other end WANT to
help. Give them the chance!
>
> We've also found that when people disagree about an edit, the best
> solution is for them to pick a coffee shop somewhere in town and have
> everybody who has an opinion on the matter sit down for half an
> hour. Not
> only does it have a direct effect of solving any edit issues, it
> reinforces
> the human connection between editors. With over 10,000 editors
> active, we
> have only ever had one administrative ban, and that was a fellow
> from two
> towns over who actually asked to be banned (he was having a hard
> time in
> life, possibly some addition issues).
>
> Spoken voice, or face to face time with somebody new creates an
> instant
> relationship that can't be duplicated on-line.
>
> As an aside, I've been posting, sending and putting up my phone
> number on
> the internet since before the world wide web existed. I have never
> had any
> problems, and a few times I've received some nice calls from
> various people
> in groups I'm a member of.
I prefer email first, face-to-face second, then phone last. However
since I work mainly with people in the Silicon Valley, and I'm in
Austin, it's the phone most of the time.
- --
John Mayson <jo...@mayson.us>
Austin, Texas, USA
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Kenny
I really like your approach WastedDesigns. Yes it does seem a little
cold but it sounds like like it might work. It seems 90% of the time
phone calls go of topic and talk up way to much time. They ever cause
more work when this happens.
My biggest compliant it when a client sends me an email and about five
minutes later calls me to tell me they sent me an email.
Ken
David Douthitt
> I personally think the telephone is possibly only second to the
> television for being a "monkey wrench" to productivity.
With all of the troubles you were having, I might suggest you switch
to a service like www.grandcentral.com or www.ringcentral.com - both
of which will forward your voicemails to email if you like. You could
forward your phone (when busy or unanswered) to one of these services,
then everything would come in into one location.
GrandCentral will allow you to pick up the phone (online) as the
person is leaving a message, or to block calls from certain numbers,
or to have message greetings specific to various numbers.
Another idea - in one interview with David Allen, the interviewer said
he knew a person who had worked for IBM, and who said "I listen to my
messages at the beginning and at the end of the day." (and that was that.)
I might also mention - I've been in places with low cube walls (the
new walls, at chest high, replaced old walls that were over head-high)
- places where I could hear *both* sides of a phone conversation. I
wanted to say "Just go *over* there and talk...." I think phones have
taken away from person-to-person communication in a lot of cases.
--
UNIX System Administrator
Linux+, SCSA, RHCE, LPIC-1
HP-UX, Linux, Solaris, FreeBSD
Books: "Advanced System Administration" and "GNU Screen: A
Comprehensive Introduction"
http://www.lulu.com/ssrat
David Douthitt
> Oral/aural communication relies on mostly sequential access and can be very
> ambiguous (at the level of clarity of sound and clarity of speech). E-mail
> can be rapidly scanned and is much less ambiguous, as well as being cheaper
> and leaving a permanent record.
There is a service which will convert your voicemails to text and send
them to you:
David Douthitt
> Okay, the Safari browser for Windows just plain sucks!
As much as I like Apple, your sentiment seems to be universal (currently).
Of course, I use (and recommend!) Camino on Macs and Firefox on
Windows.....
David Douthitt
> As an aside, I've been posting, sending and putting up my phone number on
> the internet since before the world wide web existed. I have never had any
> problems, and a few times I've received some nice calls from various people
> in groups I'm a member of.
Ahoy! Another ancient Internet user! Not many of us...
I too, could have put my phone and address up (like many others had) -
but I asked another internet-person who had been on even longer than I
why he didn't, and he said it was because of privacy issues and so
forth - and he said that many of the numbers one saw were academic
office numbers.
Thus, my phone and address have never been put up (in a signature
anyway), and I've never had any problems either ;-)
John Mayson
Hash: SHA1
On Jun 17, 2007, at 2:54 PM, David Douthitt wrote:
> John Mayson wrote:
>> Okay, the Safari browser for Windows just plain sucks!
>
> As much as I like Apple, your sentiment seems to be universal
> (currently).
>
> Of course, I use (and recommend!) Camino on Macs and Firefox on
> Windows.....
I sometimes use Camino on my Mac, but usually just fault to the old
tried and true, Safari. I was using Firefox on the PC, but then
found Flock. It's built on Mozilla, but I like it better.
- --
John Mayson <jo...@mayson.us>
Austin, Texas, USA
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Dennis C. During
> From: David Douthitt
>
> Dennis C. During wrote:
> > Oral/aural communication relies on mostly sequential access and can be
> > very ambiguous (at the level of clarity of sound and clarity of
> > speech). E-mail can be rapidly scanned and is much less ambiguous, as
> > well as being cheaper and leaving a permanent record.
>
> There is a service which will convert your voicemails to text
> and send them to you:
>
> http://www.simulscribe.com
Interesting. Technology and entrepreneurship to the rescue. That should
solve the problem of poor hearing (Mine is somewhat degraded.), lack of
page-or-screen-at-a-time access, and permanent record. The only remaining
problems of the ones I mentioned is cost and the other aspects of the
clarity of sound problem, poor quality of sound as received by simulscribe
(caused either by transmission or by the originator).
It leaves open the problem that the sender may not have been careful to edit
his thoughts.
Dennis C. During
"If it isn't fun, you're not doing it right." - Fran Tarkenton
GloriaB
operator error :)
> John Mayson <j...@mayson.us>
> Austin, Texas, USA