Cost-efficient replacements for Stratasys Ecoworks Tablets

[Enginwiz]

The Stratasys Ecoworks Tablets used for removing soluble supports

are very expensive. 24 Tablets are around US$ 110 on Amazon.

Each tablet weighs about 70 gramms. So you pay US$ 110 for 1,7 kg.

This is way too much for the commodity chemicals on the material safety sheet:

Disodium carbonate compounded with hydrogen peroxide is a common ingredient

of stain remover powder. Mixed with water it dissolves into sodium carbonate (the second

one mentioned on the sheet - also known as washing soda) and hydrogen peroxide.

Hydrogen peroxide has one oxigen atom too much and tries to get rid of it.

Whenever an organic molecule gets touched by hydrogen peroxide the surplus

oxigen atom tries to oxidise it. This is how stains vanish and support material dissolves.

I wanted to qualify household chemicals as replacements for the Ecoworks tablets

that are globally available for everybody. The premium brand of stain remover powder

is VANISH OXY ACTION powder produced by global player Reckitt Benckiser.

 

For testing I loaded the Wavewash 55 with 3 liters of warm water, 30 gramms

of VANISH OXY ACTION powder and this Mojo build plate:

After two hours of heating and stirring I took this picture of build plate and parts:

After five hours of heating and stirring the Wavewash 55 switched off,

the supports were gone and the parts had been separated from the build plate.

These are roughly the same results I got with the Ecoworks tablets, that are nearly

ten times more expensive. VANISH OXY ACTION itself is a also premium product

that sells for a premuim price. There are low-cost stain remover powders based on

disodium carbonate compounded with hydrogen peroxide for less than US$ 2 per kg.

They might work as well as the Ecoworks tablets.

[Ryan Carlyle]

Off the top of my head, you could probably just use some baking soda powder and liquid hydrogen peroxide, and skip the cleaner products. I don't actually know if that comes out cheaper though.

[Kurt @ VR-FX]

Ryan - it seems like would B cheaper - but - I'm just guessing!

-K-

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 6, 2015, at 5:38 PM, Ryan Carlyle <temp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Off the top of my head, you could probably just use some baking soda powder and liquid hydrogen peroxide, and skip the cleaner products. I don't actually know if that comes out cheaper though.
>

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[Kurt @ VR-FX]

I hope U don't mind my asking this. But - the prints in Ur last pic look Really messy - which I am surprised - since almost all of my Mojo prints are so perfect and look like manufactured pieces & Not Prototypes! Is the grey just not as nice as the Ivory plastic???

-K-

Sent from my iPhone

[Enginwiz]

I recieved several used Quickpack Print Engines in different colors with the Mojo.
Every color including the natural or ivory produced some imperfections on the
surface that look like humidity induced overextrusion. Maybe the print packs
have been sitting around opened for too long.

Which colors have you printed with on your Mojo?

[Kurt @ VR-FX]

Unlucky for me - I've only printed with the Ivory color. That being said
- I have had some Great success in Dyeing w/Polyester type dyes. Some of
my Black pieces have come out the best!

-K-

[Enginwiz]

Disodium carbonate compounded with hydrogen peroxide is available
on Amazon as powder for people who want or need to mix their own
washing products. The price per kg is about the same as Vanish Oxy.

I have the opportunity to buy chemicals in an industrial scale at a
lower price range, but this is not the intention of this thread.

Liquid concentrated hydrogen peroxide is a regulated substance
where I live, because it can be used to build bombs. Compounded into
powdered washing soda it is easy to handle and much safer to use.

[Ryan Carlyle]

They regulate hydrogen peroxide? That's kind of silly. It's insanely difficult and dangerous to make explosives out of it. (I assume the concern is the standard acetone peroxide via sulfuric acid reaction that made airports ban liquids in carryons.) You're much more likely to blow yourself up making it than anything else. The people with the skills to do it safely -- experienced chemists -- know better reaction pathways to make explosives anyway.

Can you get dilute hydrogen peroxide? Like for medical / hair-bleaching purposes?

[DonaldJ]

Dilute hydrogen peroxide is still commonly available at drug stores; it's only about 3%.

[Ryan Carlyle]

You COULD use dilute hydrogen peroxide and less water, but that's unlikely to cost less than the wash powder. 

[Enginwiz]

FINISH CLASSIC dishwasher powder also does the job.
I used about 50 gramms for 3 liters of water.

[Kurt @ VR-FX]

Really? It works well??

Don't think I have heard of that Dish powder. Am I right in assuming you
are not located here in the States - or I have that completely wrong?

Am going to look for This - as well as the VANISH OXY ACTION at Target -
where I am going shopping now. And will TRY one of these in the WaveWash
system.

-K-

[Kurt @ VR-FX]

I just looked on Target.com - seems that they don't sell it - nor the Finish Dish detergent. I suspect you are in the UK - considering the links I found on my search for Vanish. Am I right?

I did find this other stuff - OxiClean - a Stain remover - on Target.com - and I am wondering if that would be almost Identical and equivalent to Vanish? I suspect it may be. On Target - I can find the actual contents of the stuff though...

-K-

[jimc]

finish is here in the states. its all i use in my dishwasher. its a very common detergent. 

[Kurt @ VR-FX]

Actually - even before I saw your reply to prove me corrected - I already saw it in Target. It was a BUNCH of different types of Finish products. But, since I'm not the chemist - I was Not sure which one to get - and None of them said "Classic" on it. I also saw a bunch of the Oxi-Clean stuff - but, decided NOT to get it - unless I knew it was the right type of stuff that would work - as it would be a waste of like $8 otherwise...

-K-

On 2/8/2015 6:09 PM, jimc wrote:

finish is here in the states. its all i use in my dishwasher. its a very common detergent. 

[Enginwiz]

Here is the link to VANISH OXI ACTION on Amazon.com. Target might sell it for a lower price.

http://www.amazon.com/Vanish-Oxi-Action-500g/dp/B006Z4LEF0/ref=sr_1_3?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1423459650&sr=1-3&keywords=Vanish

This is a link to Finish dishwasher power also on Amazon.com.

http://www.amazon.com/Finish-Powder-Automatic-Dishwasher-Detergent/dp/B004ZS80J6/ref=sr_1_2?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1423459984&sr=1-2&keywords=finish+dishwasher+powder#product-description-iframe

I live in Germany and can only test the local product variants.
The VANISH product line seems to be the same as in the US market.

We have been using the FINISH dishwasher power in our kitchen
for about 15 years and it went through a number of different names
during the global merger of Benckiser and Reckitt. Initially its name
was CALGON dishwasher powder. Regardless of the name it was always
a top product. We tried several of the 2-in-1 up to 7-in-1 dishwasher tabs
and the Finish Classic Powder (as it is called over here) always had a better
cleaning effect.

This week ALDI, our largest discounter, has a special offer on dishwasher tablets.
An XXL box containing 100 tabs will be sold for € 4,50, less than US$ 6.
These are simple one phase tablets. Like with the FINISH powder you have to
supply regeneration salt and rinsing agent separately. I will check the ingredients
list on the package and maybe buy a box to test it with the SR-30 support material.

[lassi_kinnunen]

35% seems available on amazon..

but really, it looks like cleaning products are cheaper.

 

as sidenote, what would NaOH do to the stuff?

[Ryan Carlyle]

Mild base + peroxide, vs strong base? Hard to say. Might work (don't know), but I'm guessing the NaOH concentration required would be somewhat more dangerous.

[Enginwiz]

The cheap single phase dishwasher tablets also remove the SR-30 support material
in the Wavewash 55. I used two tabs a 20 gramms in 3 liters of water.
The wavewash heats the cleaning solution to 65 degrees celsius.
After three hours of heating and stirring the supports were gone.
The costs for one cleaning cycle are now down to 10 cents.

The question is: What kind of plastic material is SR-30 made of?
This stuff would probably work as well with other printers.

[Brandon Andrzejewski]

I had been told PVA while using my school's Fortus. This would make sense, but I cannot vouch for the credibility of the source.

As I recall our support structures were brown/bronze in color and quite brittle, visually dissimilar from what I have seen posted on this forum.  Sorry I can't help more, I clearly should have taken better notes. =/

[vr...@optonline.net]

There was a Previous Thread in which I believe Ryan did the research and let everyone know what the Soluble Support material was made from. Although I don't remember what the thread Subject was off the top of my head...

-K-

----- Original Message -----
From: Brandon Andrzejewski
Date: Thursday, February 12, 2015 1:43 pm
Subject: Re: [3dprintertipstricksreviews] Cost-efficient replacements for Stratasys Ecoworks Tablets
To: 3dprintertips...@googlegroups.com

> I had been told PVA while using my school's Fortus. This would
> make sense,
> but I cannot vouch for the credibility of the source.
>

> On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 11:37:06 PM UTC-6, Enginwiz wrote:
> >

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******************
KURT WENDT
Freelance Prototyper

[Ryan Carlyle]

It's a blend of acrylic and something I can't remember.

[Ryan Carlyle]

MSDS says:
Terpolymer of Methacrylic Acid, Styrene and Butylacrylate

So, acrylic/styrene hybrid.