Carbon3D show its M1 3D printer in final form

[Happyman]

http://carbon3d.com/

machine look gigantic with tiny build area of

W

144 mm

D

81 mm

H

330 mm

Not for sale, only subscription basis, 

 

[Jetguy]

If mortal humans cannot buy it, it doesn't exist, AKA vaporware.

If a slick brochure/webpage includes a photorealistic rendering of the machine- that's not even entrance criteria to start a Kickstarter.

Put one in my hands or I'm still calling bogus on Carbon 3D.

Again, send me one or it's fake. That's my answer and I'm sticking by it :)

[Kurt @ VR-FX]

No way would they give U a unit - as U would most assuredly Rip it Completely apart upon getting it!!!

:-)

-K-

Sent from my iPhone

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[Joseph Chiu (Toybuilder)]

Yeah, but think of how much better it'll work afterwards! ;)

[Jetguy]

Shhh, you are screwing up my evil plan, I mean my perfectly ethical plan to evaluate the printer and technology.

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[TobyCWood]

I hear they got one in San Leandro and we were invited to go see it.

[Ryan Carlyle]

I'm a bit taken aback by the 81mm dimension. 

[Dan Newman]

On 01/04/2016 12:35 PM, Ryan Carlyle wrote:
> I'm a bit taken aback by the 81mm dimension.

But note that it's a 16:9 aspect ratio. Obviously driven by the
projection system they use.

Dan

[Kurt @ VR-FX]

Yeah - but unlike the Cube - maybe he won't be able to put it all back together again properly and still have it working!!!

Ha Ha!

-K-

Sent from my iPhone

[Kurt @ VR-FX]

Damn it All - U Frickin Slay me JetGuy!

I shouldn't read this shit at work - since people will think I'm Nuts as I Chuckle loudly!

:-)

-K-

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[adam paul]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-01/this-company-does-3d-printing-at-a-speed-no-one-else-can-match

[Ryan Carlyle]

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 6:52:34 PM UTC-5, adam paul wrote:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-01/this-company-does-3d-printing-at-a-speed-no-one-else-can-match

Carbon charges $40,000 a year to rent one of its printers and get software updates, plus an installation fee of $10,000 and $79 to $399 for every fifth of a gallon of liquid plastic. The company says it isn’t profitable and declined to disclose revenue.  

Yeah, ok. Do I need to point out the fact that Kobus's super-speed version Gizmo printer has a similar print speed and costs about $8k to own?

Also, who the hell sells photopolymer resins in fifths? Can I get a discount if I buy a handle? C'mon. 

[Evan Nguyen]

It's obviously not a consumer grade printer so why all the hate? Ford and big time studios seem to be happy with it. If this company can formulate the specific materials that I need I'd probably get my company to lease it too.

[Jetguy]

Because if I wanted to be in a forum talking about industrial megabuck printers, all on a company dime and not "real" money, it wouldn't be here.

Same reason we don't have 50 posts on Stratasys models.

[Kurt@VR-FX]

Yup -- as we only have like 2 or 3 of us on here with a Mojo!

But - Jetguy - I do agree w/Evan - that its a bit too much "Hate" being directed at Carbon3D - maybe misdirected. Just sayin'...

Of course - everyone is allowed to their opinion - and, needless to say - in THIS Space/Forum - yours is TRULY one of the MOST Valuable. So - I'll just leave it at that...           :-)

-K-

--

[Ryan Carlyle]

Carbon raised $140mm in VC money. That's like five years of profits for Stratasys and 3D Systems combined. It's the most media-anticipated printer launch in years. For that kind of funding and hype, in addition to printing fast, these printers should whiten your teeth and give blowjobs.

I AM impressed by the materials science going into the resin material options. That's legit.

[Kurt@VR-FX]

You know - Ryan - maybe giving Blow Jobs would be a Bit much. And, sure
shows how Male centric this forum is. But, I think JetGuy will have a
Real Laugh over your comment. I actually just got off the phone with
him. Talked about several things - including a problem with my Mojo.
And, my potential resolution for the problem - he had a Laugh - and says
I should post a pic of it. Which I may indeed do...

:-)
-K-

[adam paul]

Oh ooh, white teeth!

[TobyCWood]

Because it's yet more BUNK. Hype has done more damage to 3DP markets then crap products.

[Ryan Carlyle]

Well, realistically, it looks like a very nice (albeit small) DLP (or similar) SLA printer. In the industrial user market, it's not a bad price. But the industrial market is crazy overpriced and not really responding to competition adequately. When you compare the Carbon printer to the whole fleet of Form 2 or Gizmo printers you could get for that price, it's questionable where the "one small high-speed printer" concept is all that great of a value proposition.

If this were the entry offering for anybody else, it would be an impressive machine. Yes, impressive. I'd like to be able to use one. But the insane hype and venture capital that went into it made it sound like a complete revolution that would throw 3D printing on its head. That is distinctly not what we're seeing here.

Why is that so bad? Because if Carbon can't generate huge profits and growth that 1,000% justifies the dumptruck-loads of cash that VCs invested, it's ANOTHER huge setback for serious investment into 3DP technology. At the types of equity stakes and exit multiples that technology startup angel investors need to be profitable, it looks like Carbon has to end up being a multi-billion dollar company in the next 5-10 years. Bigger than Stratasys and 3D Systems today. Sorry, I just don't see that happening. But I hope they succeed, for the sake of the little guys like Printrbot and Aleph and TAM etc.

You say, "What? This affects our beloved hobbyist printer manufacturers?" Yeah, it does. When hype bubbles burst around these high-profile investments, it scares funding away from the entire sector. Look at Solidoodle. They couldn't find an investor willing to make a cash infusion, and had to shut down. That's after selling 10,000 printers and building a reasonably credible brand. What happens if Printrbot hits a rough patch and needs to take on rescue funding to recover? If investors see good results from backing high-profile 3D printer manufacturers like Carbon, it makes the smaller deals look pretty attractive. But big cock-ups like the MBI/Stratasys merger poison the well for everybody.

[Richard Beck]

Seems like a great machine, that is purely priced on perceived value, but $40,000 per year to rent one plus you pay for expensive materials?  That just seems way too high and would limit their uptake.   Usually you lease things when they are too expensive to buy, but between COGS and revovery of R&D, profit, etc., I can not imagine their costs being that high.  However, I assume they tested this pricing scheme and it works.

While high, that lease price works out to $769 per week which for a development group in a company may not be bad.  If they lease 2000 machines per year, that is $80 million in revenue, excluding materials.

For product development, they can print way faster than a team can assess the product, however, it does provide the opportunity for a team to print 10 variations of something in a day and do a lot of parallel testing which could greatly speed development.  Whether this machine would make sense or not depends on how you would use it.

Imagine you are doing stop action animations and need thousands of versions of a character in different posses.  This machine would be great, except you still need to paint each one by hand unless you can print parts in basic colors or somehow apply color in a post processing CGI process, but if you do that, why bother with stop action animation?

All that being said, I still WANT one.

[TobyCWood]

In the meantime more conventional approaches get better:

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Configure-Ember-for-High-Speed-3D-Printing/

Not that the Ember is IMO "affordable" either.

[Gian Pablo Villamil]

I'm sure the machine exists, but the economics seem really dubious.

I remember the TED talk by the founder, where he talked about making 3D printing 100x faster. 

Well, one strategy for doing that is by making 3D printing 100x cheaper, then you can just throw a swarm of printers at the problem.

I really think the "high end" 3D printing strategy of only focusing on the sexy high value applications will really hurt them. People are already discovering what they can do with inexpensive printers, it opens up entire new areas. It's like the early days of PCs, and discovering that a $2,000 Apple ][ could do the same things as a $20,000 BasicFour. Not only was it a substitution, but it opened up new applications.

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 8:22:50 AM UTC-7, Jetguy wrote:

[TobyCWood]

But... there's a BIG downside. A race to the bottom will quickly make the market unattractive to producers and choices and new stuff will fade away. If there's no money to be made then we can expect very little to change for desktop 3DP over the coming year or so. 

[Gian Pablo Villamil]

Yes. It is a bit like the PC industry. Remember the "age of beige" during the 90's when PCs all basically looked the same for a decade. Only laptops innnovated in any meaningful way. However, if you were USING PCs (vs MAKING them), it was fine - you had a huge installed base of machines that all basically worked the same on which to run your software.

I suspect this will happen to desktop FDM. In particular, I fear it will slow the deployment of faster/higher quality electronics, since it will always be easier/cheaper to just keep using Arduino level processors. However, we will probably see lots of cheap and fairly polished printers, so people using them for their hobby/work/school will be in good shape. Hopefully it becomes a "utility" like the beige PCs of the 90s.

However, at some point an innovation will come along that will force things to get moving again - I suspect the combination of SLA processes with robotic automation, or the emergence of an interesting mass market application.

[Happyman]

Oxygen is not cheap......

"There are a couple of printer accessories you’ll likely require: a second build plate at USD$750 per year, plus an extra window cassette (for the resin tank) at USD$5,000/year. 

Adding this up for the three year subscription period, you’ll pay USD$161,250. "

Article
http://www.fabbaloo.com/blog/2016/4/6/tallying-up-the-carbons-total-cost-of-ownership

For complete pricing

https://s3.amazonaws.com/flabs-carbon/downloads/pricing/Carbon_Pricing_April2016_A.pdf

[Christopher]

Just recently found this Carbon 3d demo by tested.com (https://youtu.be/O2thSsQrZUM ) 

It basically provides a somewhat good insight into the abilities of the printer. 

I kinda got a bit annoyed by him repeating  "chemistry", "technology", "oxygen" and "light" far to many times.

Nonetheless the materials they developed for use really struck me. Like for example the 2 components SLA resin.