Makerbot disolvable filament tips

[DGA]

Hi, I just got a roll of the above mentioned filament. Anyone have any experience with this stuff, wanting to know nozzle and bed temps etc. I have a Prusa Migbot 13. Thanks.

[Dan Newman]

They've had several dissolvable filaments: figure out which this is (PVA or HIPS)
then google on "3d printing with PVA" or likewise for HIPS. If it is PVA, then
keep it sealed in a bag with desiccant and don't run it above 190C or it will burn
and blacken.

Makerbot's latest stuff is HIPS and dissolves with limonene. So, if you have their
recent stuff google "3D printing with HIPS".

Dan

[Dan Newman]

> Makerbot's latest stuff is HIPS and dissolves with limonene. So, if you have their
> recent stuff google "3D printing with HIPS".

P.S. It may not be 100% HIPS (indeed, it likely isn't). So I don't mean to suggest
that it is HIPS. Rather that the primary/key ingredient is HIPS and hence why you'd
look around for printing guidelines for HIPS.

Dan

[DGA]

Its a new roll still in the bag, from maybe two years ago. Says nothing on it as to actual material it is, typical of Makerbot, but the book said about Limonene (?) to dissolve it.

[Dan Newman]

On 01/04/2016 1:38 PM, DGA wrote:
> Its a new roll still in the bag, from maybe two years ago. Says nothing on it as
> to actual material it is, typical of Makerbot, but the book said about Limonene
> (?) to dissolve it.

PVA usually has a rough, coarse texture and an ivory/cream color. HIPS can come
in a variety of colors including white. HIPS will have a smoother color and should
be difficult to indent with your thumbnail whilst PVA is usually pretty easy to
indent with your thumbnail. Also, PVA will dissolve in warm water; HIPS most
definitely will not. So the water test is a good test if you're still unsure.

Dan

[DGA]

Its pure white and smooth and too hard to dent with a fingernail, so I am thinking it's HIPS. So, being HIPS, back to the original questions, nozzle temp and bed temp, and any other tips please?

[Jetguy]

If it's genuine makerbot filament, open makerware, open the profile they made just for that filament and make notes.

I stopped using Makerware so i cannot help.

[Jetguy]

"MakerBot Dissolvable Filament is fully supported by the free and powerful MakerBot Desktop app that automatically generates the needed support structure."

[DGA]

I'm asking here because I can't get to makerware in this computer. I have no other sources other than just googling the topic, but I thought the support was best here, so is why I asked here. Guess nobody has used the stuff in anything other than a Makerbot.

[Joseph Chiu (Toybuilder)]

Use ABS temps.  Or, bump up nozzle and heated bed a little bit.  Works great with ABS.

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[Brandon A.]

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 4:41:32 PM UTC-5, Joseph Chiu (Toybuilder) wrote:

Use ABS temps.  Or, bump up nozzle and heated bed a little bit.  Works great with ABS.

This sounds good to me, I have printed it at 250°C in the past but after using the 230°C loading script I bumped it down and it printed just fine.  I've never moved the bed from my 90ºC ABS setpoint.  Do some smaller test prints to play around with different support structures and figure out what works best for you and your application.  The supports will have the biggest impact on the final quality of your print.

A few notes on the D-Limonene usage.  Break off as much HIPS from the model as possible before soaking and let it sit for 10-20 minutes to see if you can remove any additional HIPS once it is softened up.  Taking your entire support structure and tossing it in a container of Limonene will just get you a giant goopy mess.  That said even if you are dissolving a minimal amount of HIPS per print your supply of limonene will become saturated after a while.  Throw it in the freezer and the HIPS will precipitate out of the solution.  Separate the two substances and return to your regularly programmed HIPS dissolving.

Best of luck! 

[Joseph Chiu (Toybuilder)]

Wear gloves!

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[Jetguy]

Few people bought the makerbot stuff because it was expensive. Once people figured out it was just HIPS, they just bought HIPS for 1/2 to 1/3rd the price and then followed the guides from the place they bought HIPS from.
https://www.matterhackers.com/3d-printer-filament-compare
High Impact Polystyrene
Extruder temp 220-230C    Very similar to ABS temps
HBP temp 50-60C           More like PLA temps
Bed surface-       Kapton tape, hairpray on glass, typical ABS adhesion methods (gluestick on glass)
What probably doesn't work well is the same stuff that doesn't work well on ABS- masking tape

http://www.shapingbits.com/3D-printing-guide/hips-3d-printing/

[Joseph Chiu (Toybuilder)]

Us too!  http://www.toybuilderlabs.com/products/175mm-hips-plastic-filament?variant=951565113

Matches nicely with our ABS.

[Kurt @ VR-FX]

Wow - I must B Old-School since I'm STILL using MW!

:-)

-K-

Sent from my iPhone

[Kurt @ VR-FX]

Very Interesting Info Brandon!

Although - sadly - I only have Dual Print heads on my Mojo. Although - it's also the King of dissolvable Supports!

Thanks 2 the Engine guy - I now use dishwasher powder an save a Ton instead of using the Mojo Eco-Tablets!

:-)

-K-

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Kurt @ VR-FX]

Yeah - DGA - but from Joe/ToyBuilders - as they Rock!!!!

-K-

Sent from my iPhone

[Ryan Carlyle]

+1 for everything Brandon said. I would add that you can keep a "used limonene" jar that you freeze to allow perpetual reuse, but you should have a second "clean limonene" jar for final removal of stubborn bits of HIPS. When the clean limonene jar becomes dirty, add it to the used limonene jar. 

I have done dissolvable support prints with Makerbot's dissolvable filament. It's just regular HIPS. Use your regular ABS settings and it will work absolutely fine. 

The main difference between HIPS and ABS is that the glass point of HIPS is a bit lower (~10C) so you don't want to crank the bed temp too high or it will be soft near the build plate. 90C should be just fine.

When dissolving it, treat the d-limonene how you'd treat acetone. Don't let the delicious smell fool you. It's less flammable and somewhat less toxic than acetone, but it's still a fairly unpleasant solvent.

When done, leave the print out in the sun or in a warm, well-ventilated area for a couple days to help the limonene evaporate. 

[DGA]

Thank you guys for your help, will go see if I can get it to work.

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 4:12:54 PM UTC-4, DGA wrote:

[Gian Pablo Villamil]

If it is HIPS:

1. Use gloves. While in theory it is safe, it will do a pretty good job of drying out your skin, and if it has plastic dissolved in it, it is a sticky goopy mess that you do NOT want on your skin.
2. 250C extrusion temperature for the HIPS worked fine on my Makerbot Rep2X. Keep your ABS model at 230C or so.
3. Slightly lower heated bed temperature is a good idea - the 90C that everyone is mentioning is good.
4. Meshmixer has some great tools for generating support with soluble materials - should be mentioned in this group or Makerbot users. Basically builds some branching structures that flare out to provide a nice smooth surface in contact with the model.
5. As mentioned before, try removing as much support before soaking in D-Limonene.
6. I found that it worked well to put the model in a wire basket or tray, that way the dissolved plastic would fall through onto the bottom of the container. Otherwise the bottom of your model sits in the goop.

Something no-one has mentioned: when soaking an ABS model in pure Limonene, it works fine. However, once the Limonene has some ABS dissolved in it, it has the odd effect of softening ABS. So you definitely want to either use virgin Limonene, or go through the freeze/separate cycle fairly often.