Prusa CORE One :O

[Bryan Murphy]

Did not expect to wake up to this today:

https://www.prusa3d.com/product/prusa-core-one/

> Whether you're new to 3D printing or a seasoned expert, Prusa CORE One ticks all the boxes for a reliable all-around machine. Featuring an enclosed chamber and CoreXY design, it combines high-speed printing and maximum print quality with a large 250×220×270mm print area. And there are plenty of clever design choices, e.g., an all-steel exoskeleton frame for maximum firmness and robustness.

It will be interesting to see all the reviews.

Bryan

bmurp...@gmail.com

[Jody Harris]

Honestly, I was hoping for a tool changer. 

I'm still going to go on hoping that a tool changer will be an add-on to this printer. 🤞

-j

Think carefully

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[Alan B]

I had the same thought - a tool changer or Idex would be nice here. Is there enough room for a tool changer? It takes a lot of extra space So does Idex. Still there are a lot of uses for a compact enclosed heated corexy Prusa. I wonder how long it will be before Prusa is sued...

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[Ken Davidson]

Note that they also plan to have an upgrade kit to convert a MK4 to a Core One. Seems to me there would be more new components than reused, but it should be interesting.

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[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!]

I thought it was funny - all the pics - showing the printer in a Maker Space, an Office, and even in like an auto shop with cars being work on!

Not sure about this printer. They brag big build volume - and it's not THAT big. And, Single extruder these days is so passe...

I thought that, besides the XL, and the Hi-Temp Delta, that they also had introduced a newer version of their MK4 printer, or something like that. So, is this their attempt to jump on the bandwagon with all the other enclosed machines - like the MakerBot & FlashForge machines???

Hmmm...

-K

[Jody Harris]

It does make sense, though. For a small premium over the Mk4, you get
- enclosure
- coreXY
- slightly larger build volume
- temperature controlled interior

Unfortunately, there is no way to do tool changing as it is configured. That's disappointing.

-j

Think carefully

Think carefully

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[Alan B]

Prusa did recently introduce the MK4S, an improved version of the MK4. 

The print volume on this Core One at 250x210x270 is the MK4 print size but taller by 50mm.  The main advantages of the Core One seem to be inherently enclosed, heated and fan vented chamber so can print most any material while still closed up, corexy and a bit faster than the MK4S, probably quieter with enclosure, smaller overall size due to lack of Y bed motion and less expansion/contraction with temperature because steel instead of aluminum. Having an upgrade path from the MK4S is nice. Is there any advantage to keeping an MK4S bed slinger? Or just convert it. One advantage of the bed slinger is light weight, also better access to things behind it if that's useful. I have a shelf behind the MK4 so an enclosed printer would block access in that location.

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[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!]

IN theory - as it's CoreXY vs. MK4S as a Bedslinger - the CoreXY unit can Indeed print much faster!

But, yes - being enclosed is really good. That being said, I did NOT see any info about airfiltration. So, for instance, at VisionMiner - the 22-IDEX is fully enclosed - and chamber can get SUPER Hot! But, when printing ABS - the Stench emanates from the machine BADLY! We have, at times - implemented a BOFA on a machine printing ABS. But, on this CoreXY Prusa machine - I see no reference to something like that...

I will admit, I was impressed with the design - such that they claim they can print 75 degree overhangs!

-K

[Bryan Murphy]

I didn't see anything that looked like air filtration.  This sounds like it's a new foundation for them to build on going forward, kind of like what RatRig is doing.  We'll probably see more variations of this from them next year.  And I too also love the design language.

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[markni...@gmail.com]

It looks interesting.

I wonder how it stacks up spec's wise as compared to Stratasys's favorite, the Flashforge Adventurer 5M Pro?

[W'Ren]

I’m feeling hopeful about it. The size is a little disappointing, but I think it’s gonna work great for my needs. I am going to wait for a while so the bugs can get worked out. I’m not interested in being a test Pilot/bug fixer

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[LukeH]

It is way too little, way too late. It is double the price of major CoreXY competitors for a tiny print volume. I think Prusa has been “Blackberry’ed”.

I saw a Qidi X-Max3 coreXY advertised in the BF sales (presumably the new model is in the way) for like $515USD, and that has a 325x325x315 build volume, 600mm/s speeds, heated build chamber, 350 degrees max temperature, active carbon filter, and piles of other comfort features.

The Creality K1 Max (and even the K2 Plus) are similarly better specified for a lower price.it even make the BambuLabs X1C look like a bargain.

[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!]

Luke - I totally agree!

I was surprised at such a small print volume. And, like others - if you're going to Enclose it - Damn well do proper air filtering! 

It does indeed feel like they are trying to play Catch Up in the market. And, the price point is BAD - but, similarly high priced when compared to other Prusa offerings...

-K

[Alan B]

For customers who prioritize price over everything else, Prusa won't be their vendor, unless tariffs on Chinese imports actually provide price parity.

For people who prioritize support and serviceability over the long haul Prusa is a solid choice, they tend to support and provide serviceable designs with long term upgrade paths. Many other vendors fail at serviceable designs and never bother with upgrades.

On printers with filters, are they adequate, serviceable and sustainable? Some appear to be an afterthought rather than seriously useful.

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[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

A WAG…

They are having them built by someone else. Kinda like the Ultimaker Sprint.

[vr...@optonline.net]

Actually Andy - that was indeed my thought when I saw it!

I really should watch the video intro by Joseph - if nothing else - I bet it's a bit entertaining!!!

-K
 

------ Original Message ------
From: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 19th 2024, 08:07 PM
Subject: Re: Prusa CORE One :O
A WAG…

They are having them built by someone else. Kinda like the Ultimaker Sprint.

 

On Tuesday, November 19, 2024 at 6:26:58 AM UTC-8 bmurp...@gmail.com wrote:
 

 

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[Luke Hartfiel]

Prusa have no experience delivering a high speed CoreXY devices, and this one just seems to be the 4S repackaged in a different format (rather than a ground up design).

That’s good, because presumably that means stuff like the MMU3 should just work, but bad because a slow Mendel printer is at best going to transform into a slow CoreXY printer. 

At least it will take up less bench space.

Most enclosed printers with air filtering use an active carbon filter with a small-ish recirculating fan. Given even for a large 350x350x350 printer we are only talking about a volume of like 40 litres (like 1.4 cubic feet), then that is more than adequate, and generally does a good job. Problems arise though when people use high acidity activated carbon, which can rust out any steel fixings or parts inside the enclosure. You have to make sure you buy decent replacement carbon.

On 20 Nov 2024, at 9:07 am, Alan B <alan....@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Alan B]

Some of the filters have been difficult to replace, or with ridiculously small capacity.

Adding a filter and recirc fan is pretty trivial, so hardly a major reason for complaint.

They mention MMU3 support.

The MK4S isn't really slow, and the Core One they say is something like 25% faster. Most users want solid reliability over speed.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

I watched the vid.

Sigh…

It sounds like pure desperation right at the start of the holiday buying season. It also looks just like they partnered with a Chinese manufacturer and scrambled to try to beat out sales from Bambu. Price looks right about what a CX1 costs. For sure this will damage the MK4s sales. I hope for their sake it’s a really good machine, but IMO differentiation ALWAYS wins and the lack of a second tool for full contact support which would have given them differentiation shows they will never really get it.

But… chances are the whole mkt will be effected soon by tariffs!

[Chris Jones]

Yes this looks like a desperate attempt to fend off Bambu Labs... it even looks a lot like a X1C...

[Tim Keller]

You've got the K2 Max, X1C, Qii4, etc.

In some ways, the people have spoken and this is what they want. Yes, I'd love a tool changer and an MMU and all this other stuff.

However, more and more I know people who got rid of all their other printers and bought an X1C because it's become an appliance to them.

They don't want to fiddle and tune and tinker. They want the easy back oven of printers.

As much as I want to shit on Prusa, I can also see that they realize there's a market for a heated enclosed core xy printer in the ~$1500 range. 

Bamboo can't sell the things fast enough.. So they might as well leverage their name while they still came, before they're know as that company that used to make cool printers.

Just my $.02

Tim.

[Sean]

I think this is a good thing.. options breed competition and competition breeds initiative ideas. Bambu was set to corner the market with it's strategy but I believe Prusa becoming a direct competitor is good for the end user. 

After digging through their press release/blog post... A fully "open source" core-xy with active enclosure temp control. For sub $1200 US, a kit version for sub $1000 and an upgrade kit from a mk4s at sub $500. 

 Plus being compatible with their MMS. 

I believe this is a better route even over the Bambu for myself just because of the open source aspect. 

What's even better news from their blog is that it will no longer going void your warranty if you remove the break-out to install a custom firmware. 

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[Tim Keller]

I agree. I like the fact that Prusa up front touts their "hack on it" philosophy. I fully expect that if I were to google "klipper on a prusa core one" there will be an install guide..

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I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".

[TobyCWood]

Yawl left out a biggie... at least IMO...

This machine is all industrial sliders. The CarbonX1 is all linear bearings and rods which IME sag over time.

[markni...@gmail.com]

I could be wrong, but if you check minute 2:45 on the page video, it shows, for sure 3 linear rods on the Z axis.

The X axis is for sure a linear slide.

I can't tell the Y axis from the video, but sliders would make sense.

[Bryan Murphy]

I'm too inexperienced. I totally grok sag on the x and y axes.  How does sag affect the z-axis?

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[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!]

Sag in X & Y means the nozzle tip becomes closer to the bed - thus screwing up printing in Z-direction. 

Does that make more sense??

-K

[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!]

I was just watching the video. 

Can someone tell me What the Heck is going on in this 1 segment of the video???:

It looks like someone is slapping a Fish down onto the top of the printer! 

WTF?!?! 

Am I wrong?

Is this an example of using the heated chamber to make Dried Fish???

-K

[Alan B]

They are demonstrating that magnetic items will stick to the steel frame, as I recall. It's probably a fridge magnet.

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[Bryan Murphy]

Yeah, I get that.  I mean what happens if the z-rods change shape?  I guess you'd get more banding the very least, right?  Maybe some additional ghosting?

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[Alan B]

the Y axis appears to be rods.

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[Alan B]

Z appears to be 2 linear rods in the front out wide and 3 lead screws (so it can self tram). The 3 screws are clearly visible from the front but the 2 Z rods in the front are somewhat hidden.

https://youtu.be/iziAJZ7L6Gs

[vr...@optonline.net]

Oh Snap - Yeah Alan, you're probably right! But, WOW - it is NOT Apparent from the video that it's a Fridge magnet. As it really does look like a dried fish. Honestly - that's a STUPID example of showing a magnet sticking to the printer - since it is Non-Obvious that it's a Magnet!!!

Well - Maybe it's just me...

Either way - I think it's a really stupid thing to put in the video!

-K
 

------ Original Message ------
From: alan....@gmail.com
To: vr...@optonline.net Cc: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 20th 2024, 03:30 PM
Subject: Re: Prusa CORE One :O
 

They are demonstrating that magnetic items will stick to the steel frame, as I recall. It's probably a fridge magnet.

 

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[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

why would they use sliders for X and not Y? Cost?

[Alan B]

More compatibility with MK4 parts? Less over-constraint? Cost is a factor, but not the only one.

In X a single linear rail does away with a second linear rod. In Y not so easy to do that with CoreXY. Since two are needed, then Linear Rails present no advantage, only additional cost.

At least the rods are steel and serviceable, unlike some others.

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[Jody Harris]

My though was: You're going to be very mass sensitive on the X-axis you're slinging around, but not at all on the stationary Y-axis. So, you can install as heavy a rod as you need as that Y-axis rail.

-j

Think carefully

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[Tim Keller]

Yes and no.

This goes back to the "Easy bake oven of printers" comment I made.

You and I care about industrial sliders and linear bearings and open firmware. We care about upgrade-ability and repair-ability.

Many many users don't even understand any of that and don't realize they're buying a locked-in inferior (in our eyes) product.

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[Matt Saeger]

I think it looks great and I like you can get a kit. I just wish they would sell them in the usa. I want fast free shipping and not having to worry about some import tax. Hopefully eventually they will get a usa distributor and not charge more through them like they are with printed solid. 

[John Schneider]

Agreed. I feel like they haven't scratched the surface yet on what's possible with their Printed Solid acquisition.

My guess is that they're running up against the realities of the US labor market.

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[Alan B]

Not sure the distributor matters, the import taxes get paid one way or another, unless they actually have them built in the US, and that is unlikely to reduce costs for a product like this.

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[Tdj3dp]

Hi folks,

I've been lurking around here for a bit, and listening to the podcast for a little over a year now, and finally decided to join the group so that I can share a thought or two from time to time.  

Some of you may have already be aware, but in a longer interview that he did with Joel Telling (3d Printing Nerd on youtube), he mentions in passing that it was at his request that the design needed to maximize carry-over parts from the existing printers, likely including the Nextruder, power supply, some steppers, some rods, build sheets, control electronics, and maybe even the heat-bed.  When I first saw the release video it didn't make any sense for them to keep the smaller build size of 250x220, until he mentioned the conversion kit.  Most other 3d printer releases lately have been nudging the size of their build plates up to stay competitive, and offering larger overall printers.  Everyone at Prusa knows that this printer (as a stand-alone product) would have been more competitive if they'd simply upsized the printer enough for the build plate to be at least 256x256.  This makes it even more noteworthy that they didn't, with the main reason being their commitment to their existing customers who have invested in their MK series printers.  Obviously only time will tell whether this was the right business decision, but it certainly sheds some light on why many people continue to buy their printers when there are cheaper/glitzier printers all over the market.  

I admit that I don't have any special knowledge about industrial manufacturing...but to Andy's speculation that this printer looks like it may have been constrained in it's design by the frame manufacturer (whoever that may be, if not Prusa), it seems likely that the Core One's most significant design constraints came down from Prusa management in an effort to protect a conversion path.  Overall printer size also seems to counter that speculation as well, since all of the competing core xy printers coming out of china have a significantly larger footprint than the Core One does.

Also mentioned in that same interview is that they are removing a significant barrier for installing custom firmware on the Core-One.  It was made clear during the MK4 release that custom firmware could be installed only if a certain trace on the circuit board was cut, and that doing so would void the warranty.  With the Core One (and who knows, this may also apply to the other printers), Josef mentioned that cutting this trace will no longer void the warranty.

-Jeremy

[Tdj3dp]

*edit to clarify the previous post*

"...in a longer interview that Josef  did with Joel..."

-Jeremy

[W'Ren]

That is a logical perspective. 

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[Alan B]

Excellent points.

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[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!]

Hey Jeremy,

Thanks for joining into the discussion, and Especially thanks for your very interesting input. It does indeed make sense if Josef wants to cater to all the pre-existing users out there - the ability to convert their machines. 

Although, that being said - I will make this note. Which is, many other printers - people DO Mod them A LOT! But, folks who love the Prusa machines - I figured that they liked the machines just the way they are - and I suspect most Prusa machine users don't generally tinker and Mod the machines. But, this is just a WAG on my  part - considering the discussion of the clipping the trace connection on the circuit boards. 

-K

On Friday, November 22, 2024 at 9:23:30 AM UTC-8 Tdj3dp wrote:

[Tdj3dp]

Kurt,

I'll agree Kurt that most prusa owners probably don't modify their printers much.  Let's imagine how different the printer modification history would look if 3d printing's introduction into the home/hobby workshop had been made with the same capabilities of today's 3d printers and software.  This is to say that a vast majority of 3d printers required modification in order to get them to work.  This was true for Prusa machines as well, but seems to have been far more necessary with the low-cost focused alternatives.  If in 2010, a company had released an X1C or Mk4S printer at a similar price to what they are today, there would have been little need for an active modding community.  The focus of the hobby would have quickly shifted toward designing items to print, rather than overcoming the challenge of overcoming the technical shortcomings of the printers themselves.

-J

[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!]

Yes Jeremy - you're quite right. 

In fact, in the early days of MakerBot - with regards to the CupCake, the T.O.M. & the Replicator machines - people would make Mod's to the printers. Then post about it in the MakerBot Operators Google Group forum. Then, MBI would take Many of those Mod's & apply to their printer designs - and NOT Give folks credit! And, people got really pissed off about it back then - when MBI would simply NOT Give Credit where Credit is Due!

Myself - I started with the MBI CupCake - and I never EVER Did ANY Mod's to it. My old joke, the only thing I would do for the printer was Lube the Rods! And, since there were NO Mod's - it was one of the reasons that JetGuy kinda Coveted my machine when it kinda died - because it was original AND because I printed a TON of stuff on it. 

Long story short - he pulled the electronics ONLY from it - AFAIK - and put it into a Type-A Series 3DP he had - which was the typical wooden frame - and he called it the Super-CupCake, since it now was double the build volume - from 100mm cubed to being 200mm cubed!

So - there's a tad more 3DP history for you - in case you hadn't already seen some of my prior postings - or, hadn't seen ones from Years ago...

-K

[Kurt Gluck]

Other Kurt here :-)

So ... keeping the build plate the same size also means that the bed heater and build plate, and remember Prusa uses relatively expensive ones, and any investment you might have in additional build plates is preserved.

As far as electronics, Prusa manufactures their own boards, at least their videos show that.   

We won't need someone to buy the upgrade just need them to release it as the upgrade directions will be online, and reasonably good, as they are with Prusa so we will be able to see how much is conserved from the MK4S.   Knowing prusa even screws will be conserved.   When installing the upgrades for the Enclosure (yep I built it) on the XL, they told you which screws to keep to reuse as you modified the printer for the enclosure. 

I am personally very very slow in this stuff so when the directions say "takes 4 hours" I read that as "takes 4 days" :-)

I only had to call support about 5 times to build the enclosure.   Biggest issue was I have like a 1/2mm gap between the ends of my belts. 

Kurt-A

PS: Note the new email address "kur...@gmail.com" I am trying to consolidate my 3d stuff in a separate email.

[Kurt Gluck]

Air filter is an optional add on

Its probably going to be the same combo hepa/activated-carbon filter they use on the XL enclosure 

On Tuesday, November 19, 2024 at 2:27:05 PM UTC-5 Bryan Murphy wrote:

I didn't see anything that looked like air filtration.  This sounds like it's a new foundation for them to build on going forward, kind of like what RatRig is doing.  We'll probably see more variations of this from them next year.  And I too also love the design language.

On Tue, Nov 19, 2024 at 1:12 PM Kurt The 3D Printer GUY! <vr...@optonline.net> wrote:

IN theory - as it's CoreXY vs. MK4S as a Bedslinger - the CoreXY unit can Indeed print much faster!

But, yes - being enclosed is really good. That being said, I did NOT see any info about airfiltration. So, for instance, at VisionMiner - the 22-IDEX is fully enclosed - and chamber can get SUPER Hot! But, when printing ABS - the Stench emanates from the machine BADLY! We have, at times - implemented a BOFA on a machine printing ABS. But, on this CoreXY Prusa machine - I see no reference to something like that...

I will admit, I was impressed with the design - such that they claim they can print 75 degree overhangs!

-K

On Tuesday, November 19, 2024 at 10:53:18 AM UTC-8 Alan B wrote:

Prusa did recently introduce the MK4S, an improved version of the MK4. 

The print volume on this Core One at 250x210x270 is the MK4 print size but taller by 50mm.  The main advantages of the Core One seem to be inherently enclosed, heated and fan vented chamber so can print most any material while still closed up, corexy and a bit faster than the MK4S, probably quieter with enclosure, smaller overall size due to lack of Y bed motion and less expansion/contraction with temperature because steel instead of aluminum. Having an upgrade path from the MK4S is nice. Is there any advantage to keeping an MK4S bed slinger? Or just convert it. One advantage of the bed slinger is light weight, also better access to things behind it if that's useful. I have a shelf behind the MK4 so an enclosed printer would block access in that location.

On Tue, Nov 19, 2024 at 10:10 AM Kurt The 3D Printer GUY! <vr...@optonline.net> wrote:

I thought it was funny - all the pics - showing the printer in a Maker Space, an Office, and even in like an auto shop with cars being work on!

Not sure about this printer. They brag big build volume - and it's not THAT big. And, Single extruder these days is so passe...

I thought that, besides the XL, and the Hi-Temp Delta, that they also had introduced a newer version of their MK4 printer, or something like that. So, is this their attempt to jump on the bandwagon with all the other enclosed machines - like the MakerBot & FlashForge machines???

Hmmm...

-K

On Tuesday, November 19, 2024 at 8:34:52 AM UTC-8 Ken Davidson wrote:

Note that they also plan to have an upgrade kit to convert a MK4 to a Core One. Seems to me there would be more new components than reused, but it should be interesting.

On Tue, Nov 19, 2024 at 9:26 AM Bryan Murphy <bmurp...@gmail.com> wrote:

Did not expect to wake up to this today:

https://www.prusa3d.com/product/prusa-core-one/

> Whether you're new to 3D printing or a seasoned expert, Prusa CORE One ticks all the boxes for a reliable all-around machine. Featuring an enclosed chamber and CoreXY design, it combines high-speed printing and maximum print quality with a large 250×220×270mm print area. And there are plenty of clever design choices, e.g., an all-steel exoskeleton frame for maximum firmness and robustness.

It will be interesting to see all the reviews.

Bryan

bmurp...@gmail.com

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[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!]

Mr. Gluck - I am with you in regards to your comment - " I am personally very very slow in this stuff so when the directions say "takes 4 hours" I read that as "takes 4 days" :-)  " - since, when I got my Ender 3Pro - which was a little over 2 years ago - it was claimed to take 30 min. to build - yet, I probably took 2 hours total over the course of 4 or 5 days!!!

-Kurt the Dragon-Meister!

[Kurt Gluck]

I found this Forbes article on Apple News:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolynschwaar/2024/07/09/will-this-czech-company-dominate-desktop-3d-printing-in-america/

If you have Apple News this link has less ‘noise’: https://apple.news/A04siEYqmTUWpZzsOyKYZOw

Kurt-a (the other Kurt)

[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!]

Thanks for sharing that article SIR!

[Joseph Larson]

I so want to like this one. I mean, Prusa has always been dedicated to doing right by the community. And I want them to succeed because of it.

But at the end of the day the consumer doesn't care if you're the good guy or not and I have to turn a major blind eye if I want to recommend this printer. All consumers care about price, reliability, and capability. Now, judging from Prusa's past, it's got capability. The reliability will take 6 months of community support to work out, but then it'll be pretty good. But they definitely don't have the price with this one. Now compare that with their competitors and I have to go "What the heck is Prusa Research thinking?"

I love that they've provided an upgrade path from the Mk4, but I don't see that being a major selling point for a lot of people. Especially not the sort of people that they need to adopt this technology. 

When I think about who this machine is actually for, it's got so many conditionals that the remaining slice of the market is so thin you can shine light through it. It's for people who want the capability of a next gen 3D printer, doesn't care about multi-material printing, but maybe doesn't like that Bambu streams every print through their servers, and hasn't already either caved and bought a Bambu or bought one of just bought one of the much cheaper and still just as capable Klipper based alternatives like the Flashforge Adventurer 5M, or Creailty K1 which also don't stream their prints through a server, and are willing to pay an arm and a leg for the promise of reliability that hasn't been tested yet.

However, Andy seems to have been able to hold off. Maybe this is for him.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Nah!

[Alan B]

Wonder how long before they start making these in the US. Perhaps it is priced for that. It's cheaper than the Lulzbot Mini I started with. 

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