Prusa XL priming

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Looking at the posts on their forum as well as the FB group I’m seeing priming issues. Blobs, gaps and strings. Not good. Prusa added an ooze blocking pad to the tool parking places but that will not be enough. Even worse is that they seem clueless that it’s even a problem. There is also not one word about how PS does the  priming tower totally wrong.

This could easily kill this machine.

[mroek]

I hope for their sake that they will be able to fix this, but personally I am very uncertain whether I actually want to keep my order. I've had the email some time ago that I can now complete the order, but so far I haven't seen any glowing reviews (actually no proper review yet, as far as I know), and I am just not sure that I actually want this machine anymore. However, they've had my pre-order deposit for nearly two years now, so I can wait a bit longer for some proper reviews and then decide whether to cancel or not.

[vr...@optonline.net]

I'm curious to know...

Can you Cancel your order and get your Deposit back?

In some cases - this is NOT an option. Thus why I am curious...

How much was the Deposit? Like $200? For me - I lost $100 on that stupid "OLO" KickStarter campaign - later APPROPRIATELY And Stupidly renamed the "ONO" - Cause, Oh No - it never EVER Shipped! But, I'm not crying over that spilled milk - since, as Andy would say - a KS campaign can many time be a Gamble - and, you MUST Only bet money on a KS if you don't care if you lose it. And, I agree. So - at the time - $100 was not a big gamble for me...

 

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: mro...@gmail.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: Prusa XL priming
 

I hope for their sake that they will be able to fix this, but personally I am very uncertain whether I actually want to keep my order. I've had the email some time ago that I can now complete the order, but so far I haven't seen any glowing reviews (actually no proper review yet, as far as I know), and I am just not sure that I actually want this machine anymore. However, they've had my pre-order deposit for nearly two years now, so I can wait a bit longer for some proper reviews and then decide whether to cancel or not.
 

 

 

On Thursday, September 7, 2023 at 5:01:33 PM UTC+2 3D Printing Tips and Tricks wrote:
 

Looking at the posts on their forum as well as the FB group I’m seeing priming issues. Blobs, gaps and strings. Not good. Prusa added an ooze blocking pad to the tool parking places but that will not be enough. Even worse is that they seem clueless that it’s even a problem. There is also not one word about how PS does the  priming tower totally wrong.

This could easily kill this machine.

 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "3D Printing Tips and Tricks" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to unsub...@googlegroups.com">3d-printing-tips--tricks+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/fdd16ada-ab46-4c1c-91dd-0aa7cad9ece7n%40googlegroups.com.
 

[Alan B]

Prusa has always indicated that the XL deposit ($200) was refundable or transferable to a MK4, or likely anything else in the store.

This is not a Kickstarter.

How did E3D handle these issues with their toolhead system? Were they successful?

How do other toolhead systems handle this? Is there any fundamental reason Prusa cannot solve these issues?

Regards, Alan

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

The original 3d printed parts of the E3d toolchanger included a wiper station which I modified for my bungee cord approach (you’ll have to dig into my prime/wipe threads on this forum.

E3d put out plans for people to construct an absurd, complex wiper that used a stepper and a lead screw to lower and raise it depending on the tool being wiped. Other than that, they did absolutely nothing for the “experimental” toolchanger they sold. Only a couple of users actually posted on what they tried in the E3d forum.

No solid, reliable solution was ever posted. The simplest, reliable solution is the prime tower in the latest Cura (the prime tower in PS is poop) which in my opinion is not enough for me. One can still get blobs which could easily crash the tool.
My approach is about 90-95% effective and reliable depending on what material I’m using. Some materials work better than others.

I would suggest to those who are expecting a ready to print, fully baked toolchanger to NOT ORDER yet. As I predicted and tried real hard to communicate across all related forums, Prusa has not actually dealt with the issue and as such this printer as a true toolchanger is not fully baked. Expect to see a LOT of disappointment, dissatisfaction and ANGER when the five extruder version delivers and people try to use it for complex color prints. Note all the multiple color prints I’m seeing are all simple and easy to print where the colors are all controlled as layers. The prints I test with look like organic multipart statues which do a lot of toolchanging.

Looking at the pics I can see it may be easy to do what I did on my E3d machine with the bungee cord on the XL, but how much control the FW will provide remains to be seen.

Prusa is an ***hole.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

About ten years ago when the Rep2 came out there was an adventuresome cadre of 3d printing nutters who all worked together to find and develop all sorts of things such as spring loaded idler arm extruder feeders, Aquanet, FW, and tons of other stuff that buggers like Joseph Prusa and others in China used to make money off of. Almost every single one of these folk have walked away from 3d printing and the community is not the same. Right now the ******  in the Cheque Republic is about to blow it big time by doing what he has alway done, leave it to the community to finish the job that he sold as fully worked out. He now has a devoted following who from their perspective see him and his company as a company which fully developed and polished everything that they sell. Which of course is not the case. The problem he has is that community that saved his company repeatedly no longer exists. Most users today do not buy these machines with an understanding that they are incomplete (like E3d did). Just the opposite. It’s assumed, especially for a real expensive machine like this, that it’s full baked.

This could get uncomfortable for Prusa AS IT SHOULD.

It could easily kill the XL as it did for E3d. Yah I know E3d never stated that they intended to sell this as a polished product…. That’s because they knew they could not solve prime/wipe!

Let’s see what happens!

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Is this the same kind of mistake Makerbot made? I think it is. How did Makerbot do with that mistake? Not very well in my opinion.

[vr...@optonline.net]

Oh yeah - I remember how the community around the MakerBot original printers would help solve issues - and stupid MBI would NOT even recognize their help by making public statements. In some cases - there were fights about MBI almost like stealing ideas. 

And - I've met Joseph Prusa multiple times - and he is QUITE Arrogant - and that's an Understatement!!!

-K

P.S. Time to finish prepping for my Gallery showing today - will post about it soon...

 

------ Original Message ------
From: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 9, 2023 12:43 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Prusa XL priming
Is this the same kind of mistake Makerbot made? I think it is. How did Makerbot do with that mistake? Not very well in my opinion.

 

-- 

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "3D Printing Tips and Tricks" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to unsub...@googlegroups.com">3d-printing-tips--tricks+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/e516c462-2f93-4315-a48c-0d33e2df36bbn%40googlegroups.com.
 

[Alan B]

Does anyone make Satin PEI print sheets similar to the Prusa sheets?  Not smooth, and not the usual coarse textured, but the fine textured Satin type sheets? These seem to be quite excellent, it would be nice to get them in some non-Prusa sizes however for other printers.

[vr...@optonline.net]

Alan,

There was a co. that first introduced these sheets at an Inside 3D Printing conference in NYC many years ago. I met them, and I talked to them - and they ended up sending me some sample sheets. But, for the life of me - I can't remember their name right now. Maybe Andy might remember the name of those guys. And, yeah - they produced the sheets in various sizes.

 

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: alan....@gmail.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com

-- 

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "3D Printing Tips and Tricks" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to unsub...@googlegroups.com">3d-printing-tips--tricks+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/CAHoVSnLzkTQJwieTQGqLbFyTZhDU1eVink6qhxCCugiWEOW4vg%40mail.gmail.com.
 

[vr...@optonline.net]

I just remembered! The name of the co. is BuildTak.

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: vr...@optonline.net
To: alan....@gmail.com; 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2023 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: Prusa Satin Print Sheets
 

Alan,

There was a co. that first introduced these sheets at an Inside 3D Printing conference in NYC many years ago. I met them, and I talked to them - and they ended up sending me some sample sheets. But, for the life of me - I can't remember their name right now. Maybe Andy might remember the name of those guys. And, yeah - they produced the sheets in various sizes.

 

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: alan....@gmail.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 9, 2023 5:14 PM
Subject: Prusa Satin Print Sheets
 

Does anyone make Satin PEI print sheets similar to the Prusa sheets?  Not smooth, and not the usual coarse textured, but the fine textured Satin type sheets? These seem to be quite excellent, it would be nice to get them in some non-Prusa sizes however for other printers.

 

-- 

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "3D Printing Tips and Tricks" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to unsub...@googlegroups.com">3d-printing-tips--tricks+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/CAHoVSnLzkTQJwieTQGqLbFyTZhDU1eVink6qhxCCugiWEOW4vg%40mail.gmail.com.
 

 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "3D Printing Tips and Tricks" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to unsub...@googlegroups.com">3d-printing-tips--tricks+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/35febd7d.1cafd.18a802824a0.Webtop.124%40optimum.net.
 

[Alan B]

The Prusa Satin sheets aren't like BuildTak, as far as I know. BuildTak seems to be a sheet that is applied to a steel flex bed with an adhesive layer. The Prusa sheets are somehow applied directly without an adhesive layer, like a fine PEI powder baked onto the steel that retains a fine matte surface. Other PEI coated steel sheets I have seen were either smooth or coarse texture. The Prusa Satin sheets are different, with a much finer texture that adheres PLA better than the coarse textures. I didn't start using them until I got the XL, but the Nextruder's automatic Z compensation makes it easy to try different printbeds. They have outperformed other surfaces I have tried for PLA, PETG and ABS with no cleaning and no additives.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to 3d-printing-tips--...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/4900a209.1ca52.18a806fb074.Webtop.108%40optimum.net.

[vr...@optonline.net]

True - BuildTak has a glue backing - and you stick it to another surface. You could always get a glass plate and stick the BuildTak to it. Its just a thought...

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: alan....@gmail.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2023 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Prusa Satin Print Sheets
 

The Prusa Satin sheets aren't like BuildTak, as far as I know. BuildTak seems to be a sheet that is applied to a steel flex bed with an adhesive layer. The Prusa sheets are somehow applied directly without an adhesive layer, like a fine PEI powder baked onto the steel that retains a fine matte surface. Other PEI coated steel sheets I have seen were either smooth or coarse texture. The Prusa Satin sheets are different, with a much finer texture that adheres PLA better than the coarse textures. I didn't start using them until I got the XL, but the Nextruder's automatic Z compensation makes it easy to try different printbeds. They have outperformed other surfaces I have tried for PLA, PETG and ABS with no cleaning and no additives.

 

On Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 11:52 AM <vr...@optonline.net> wrote:
 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to unsub...@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">3d-printing-tips--tricks+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/4900a209.1ca52.18a806fb074.Webtop.108%40optimum.net.
 

 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "3D Printing Tips and Tricks" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to unsub...@googlegroups.com">3d-printing-tips--tricks+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/CAHoVSn%2BqK%2BmZLVrJr0wN4MTGOYE6KUhP%3D_eRRXzEY-9qFrp2-w%40mail.gmail.com.
 

[Alan B]

I'm pretty sold on magnetic surfaces and easily interchangeable build plates, don't think I'll go backwards. Had enough of glass beds with the Lulzbot.

Did Prusa actually invent something no one else has with the Satin PEI?

Pretty simple requirement really. Magnetic sheet that has a fine matte surface and works with PLA, PETG and ABS without cleaning or coating. Hold up to nozzle probing without damage. See the specs on Prusa's website.

Apparently the 3m sticky sheet that lots of bed surfaces use is fragile and probing at the required temperature causes damage to it over time. So the directly bonded surfaces are superior. Prusa has been working on those techniques for years. Have they come up with something?

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to 3d-printing-tips--...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/4ae20492.d7f5.18a810e17e4.Webtop.91%40optimum.net.

[vr...@optonline.net]

I totally with you. Magnetic & easily removable is Totally the way to go, as I have that on my Ender - whilst I still use a glass plate on my Wanhao D6. Heck, I should get a magnetic PEI sheet for my D6 as well!

When I 1st replied, and could not remember the BuildTak name, I was using the Bing AI Bot, and this was part of the answer to me:

...but there are other companies that produce PEI sheets for 3D printing. Here are some of them:

1. CS Hyde Company: Offers Ultem® PEI Tape Sheets for 3D printers. These sheets are custom-sized and made in the US
2. Modix: Offers PEI Sheets as a direct replacement for the PEI build surface that comes standard with every Modix 3D print
3. Trianglelab: Offers a Textured PEI Sheet that is a great upgrade for any 3D printer, eliminating the need of waiting for the heatbed to cool before removing a pri

I hope this helps!

 

So- you might want to look into some of these other co. products!

 

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: alan....@gmail.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2023 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Prusa Satin Print Sheets
 

I'm pretty sold on magnetic surfaces and easily interchangeable build plates, don't think I'll go backwards. Had enough of glass beds with the Lulzbot.

 

Did Prusa actually invent something no one else has with the Satin PEI?

 

Pretty simple requirement really. Magnetic sheet that has a fine matte surface and works with PLA, PETG and ABS without cleaning or coating. Hold up to nozzle probing without damage. See the specs on Prusa's website.

 

Apparently the 3m sticky sheet that lots of bed surfaces use is fragile and probing at the required temperature causes damage to it over time. So the directly bonded surfaces are superior. Prusa has been working on those techniques for years. Have they come up with something?

 

 

 

 

 

On Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 2:45 PM <vr...@optonline.net> wrote:
 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/4ae20492.d7f5.18a810e17e4.Webtop.91%40optimum.net.
 

 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "3D Printing Tips and Tricks" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to unsub...@googlegroups.com">3d-printing-tips--tricks+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/CAHoVSn%2B4TWKONHHT0fuhUL-wYJnjP8HewCdS2AY6qJghkQ%2B9iw%40mail.gmail.com.
 

[Alan B]

There are a number of companies making steel print sheets these days. I have a few of them. They seem to fall into groups - those that use the adhesive layer, and those that bond directly to the steel. The surfaces that use the adhesive layer seem to be more fragile, apparently the adhesive is weaker than the print surface layer. The types that bond the printing surface directly are tougher and hold up better, especially in the face of things like nozzle bed probes. So that is preferred. The coarse PEI surfaces don't seem to work well for PLA, and the coarse surface sometimes interferes with small part tolerances. So a finer surface which seems to both work for a wider range of filament materials as well as interfere less with mechanical precision of the parts is preferred. Prusa seems to have come up with something here, apparently. Just wondering who else has that.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to 3d-printing-tips--...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/426d26e7.1d9b6.18a853e54bd.Webtop.108%40optimum.net.