Looking for some input & feedback (Printer Upgrade)

[BearsFan315]

Been around 3D printing world for about 9 years, but out of the mix for a little while. Use my printer all the time. small side projects, stuff for work, other people, etc.  I have the original Wanhao Duplicator i3 :) all the mods and upgrades and runs no issues. mainly run PLA !

looking to upgrade quality and larger platform (print area). Main thing is quality prints, do some R&D stuff no like accuracy.

Things I am looking for:

• Direct Drive
• 12x12x12 [305x305x305) print size
• speed is nice, but not critical, want reliability and support
• The ability to upgrade and grow as needed (nothing proprietary and locked down)
  
• autolevel/ compensation
• like to stay around $1,000 or less.
• I don't mind putting in a little work, but would like it 80%+ ready to rock out the box !! Mechanically inclined so can mod, upgrade, etc... done a ton to the Wanhao from original. 

here are some printers that i am looking at:

• CREALITY ENDER 5 PLUS (upgrade to direct drive)
• CREALITY CR-M4
• ANYCUBIC KOBRA 2 MAX
• CREALITY K2 (yet to be released) or maybe K1 
  • heard some parts were glued in and NOT replaceable ??

open to other options, but need to meet my criteria :) want to set it up get it going and be able to print reliably and not have to fight with it every time i want to print !!

[Evan]

How about the troodon? I've heard good things about it.

[BearsFan315]

Will have to look at them, never heard of them :) 

[TobyCWood]

Based on your reqs and experience I’d suggest a Voron. I forget the name of the ready to print version, but I thought it looked good for the price… anybody here recall that name?

[Sean]

I believe the one Toby is referring to is the Sovol SV08

https://www.sovol3d.com/products/sovol-sv08-3d-printer

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[BearsFan315]

Saw that there are 2 big players

TROODON 2.0 PRO 350MM
https://www.vivedino.com/products/troodon-20-pro-350mm-pre-assembled-corexy-3d-printer-with-klipper-firmware?VariantsId=10541

SOVOL  SV08

https://www.sovol3d.com/products/sovol-sv08-3d-printer

also plenty of people selling Voron 2.4 kits 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Its something like a 40 hour build. If you're into it. A bit of work, but you will be intimately familiar with it. Not too sure you'll see cost savings from a kit, but you get first hand QA.

[Scott Hess]

There are plenty of YouTube videos on these two printers.  There are also some comparison videos.  I think the channel "YGK3D" was one of the early movers on the Troodon, and I'd say that is a good place to start.

My impression is that the Sovol SV08 is less than an hour to pull together, while the Troodon is more like 3-4 hours.  My impression is that the Troodon is closer to a Voron V2.4 - certainly the Troodon is going to be easier to mod using the "standard" mods, though I imagine the community will quickly adapt mods to the Sovol.  The Troodon also has an enclosure already.

Kits are a lot more work.  For me, the building is the most enjoyable part and I really got a lot out of it, but you indicated "80% ready".  I'd say the Troodon is close to that.

-scott

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[BearsFan315]

actually watched a few of user  YGK3D videos, mainly the one that he does a comparison on. i would lean more towards the Troodon since it is more user friendly for upgrades. really want the core of machine is solid and stable see that he noted on the Solov items were plastic cast vs 3d printed, and on the Troodon they were sheet metal. I am ok as they are not typically wear items ?! I like the options to have hot end options as well as other upgrades off the shelf and not proprietary !

not worried about having to assemble, and a few hours is not that bad. also gets you more into what it is and how it operates. not sure i want to build from scratch, even if all parts are sourced and in a box ready to go. but if it means a kick butt machine and a steal of a deal, then maybe.

[Chris Albertson]

The Voron V2.4 oor the Vorn "Trident".     The V2.4 has a fixed build platform and the gantry moves vertically.  The trident has a moving platform and a fixed gantry.   The advantage of the moving gantry is that is can be "warpped" to a flat-plane shape.   But a moving bed can only be leveled.   and it might be "taco-shape".  You can not forcer it flat with only three points of suport and I doubt it is even possible to "un-taco" a thick metal plate.  But this is a minor point of leveling is generally "good enough" as long as you do a multi-point probe and compute a bed mesh.

The "Troodon" is a pre-built near-copy of the V2.4, All actulVorons are build-it-yourself projects.

The advantage of the VOron printers is that you build them from common parts sop you are not locked into a vendor.  Every part is avalaibler for multiple selers.  This is also the disadvantage of Voron because for example a custom welded steel frame can be much stronger then one you buld for 2020 extrusions.

But lets say in 3. or 5 years "everyone" is using tool changers for multi-material prints, you could add a tool changer to the V2.4. You would never be able to do that to (say) a FL Sun or Bambu printer.    

My next printer will be a very modified Voron V2.4 with 350mm buld print.  mods will be (1) tool head changer, (2) larger size extrusions, 4040 and 4020 in place or 2020.  (3) double glassed enclosure for improve insolation and higher chamber temps. (3) eddy cutrrent bed sensor, (4) maybe IDEX.  I don't see why IDEX and tool changing should be mutually exclusive (5) cameras and very good internal lighting

[Kamesh M Sundaram]

How will idex work with trident bed?

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[Chris Albertson]

If you are looking for "80%" complete then a Voron printer is not for you.   Voron is "zero percent" complete, except that you can buy kits of parts that are already cut to size.   Cutting saves you a lot of time and then all you have left is "screwdriver work".  You can also buy the printed parts to make any Voon printer and this save something like 100 hours of printing time.  There are multiple people selling all the parts.

The upsize of Voon over one of the pre-build clones is the size of the community.  Voron has a huge user base and mods and improvements are published faster then Ican read and keep up.    The clones are still much fewer in number

How good are you at 3D CAD and part design?   You would need to go into the CAD files and modify the Voon Mods and upgrades to fit your Troodon or Sovol. This is easy if you have the design skills but many people need finished ready-to-print STL files.     So updating a printer that has a smaller user base might be hard if you don't have the ability to see what was done for Voron and then adapt it to your own printer

All that said, for most people who just want to make parts, I'd say "Buy the Banbu printers and it just works"

[BearsFan315]

agreed, really want a printer that has at least 80% of the requirements from factory. I don't mind tweaking and upgrading, but don't want to spend all my time tweaking and tuning, and adapting to get consistent quality prints !!

until you all mentioned the troodon/ voron it was not on my list. i was originally looking at getting a Creality 5 Plus and swapping it to direct drive and building up from there. but it looks like the troodon may get me closer to my 80% if not more. plus open source. figure on firmware either marlin or klipper. not about speed, mainly consistency and quality prints. do R&D design and printing so form, fit, function wins. Also the ability to print something other than PLA all the time for production parts. from my reading it looks like the troodon uses a E3D v6 clone ? latest version says it comes with the stealthburner w/ hard wearing gear & nozzle ?? but does NOT say it is high flow. also says it has RC8 TAP. figured if it is a clone than could swap to high flow from voron 2.4 directly ?? what noxzzles does it use ?? assume e3d v6 compatible ones, so could get some from MicroSwiss.

I am pretty good at 3D CAD and part design, 30+ years in the design world professionally. Mainly AutoCAD, Inventor, and SolidWorks :) Designed most of the parts for my Wanhao. 

[Joseph Ecker]

I ended up canceling my SV08 order after a month of waiting.  Just before canceling, they said to expect delivery sometime in July, which I took to mean closer to August.

I researched a bit more and decided to bite the bullet on the Troodon.  Ordered this past Friday and now have tracking that is scheduled for delivery this Saturday. 

My deciding factor was that the Troodon was as close as I could get to a true Voron without the massive cost and time needed for sourcing/assembly, and at the same time, reasonably available. Keep in mind, even though the Troodon cost is higher than the SV08, the Troodon comes with a touchscreen and (more importantly) an enclosure (something Sovol has yet to ship.)

I'm hopeful that I will be able to get the Troodon set up and printing well without any modifications, but leaving the door open for future upgrades like hot-end, extruder, leveling, and maybe even MMU.

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[BearsFan315]

Wow, but seems to be the norm anymore.

I have seen a few places that sell the Voron 2.4 kit (typically all the pieces minus 3d printed parts -> FormBot & LDO/ Fabreeko) just not sure i want to venture into that. would be fun and be intimately close to the product.

I agree want to get it up and running, learn it. and then upgrade so i can do flex and some structural materials. also would like to be able to print 2 filaments mainly a soluble support material for some of the things i design and print for R&D. so IDEX or MMU would be nice :)

[BearsFan315]

Looks like the Stealthburner is a E3D v6 Clone/KnockOff ?? 
so can it easily be swapped out with a Dragon HF or UHF, or Rapido ?? or even a true E3D Revo ??

[Ed Street]

Stealthburner is very diverse, and you can do Dragon, Revo, Bambu, Rapido, E3D, Dragonfly, Phaetus x.  Ok, the better question is which hotend doe the voron NOT use?  The answer is likely it can use ALL hotends.

[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!]

Andy - you make a good point. In fact, over the years - I've had numerous people asking me what 3D Printer I suggest that they should buy. And, on a number of these occasions, I have indeed suggested they get a Kit - so that they can REALLY Understand how a 3D Printer works. 

But, over time - I've gotten the question from a people that are NOT mechanically inclined - so, I now only VERY Occasionally suggest a Kit. However, for those that have a truly Maker or Tinkerer mindset - yeah, a Kit is a good idea. It's just not for everyone...

And, honestly - I would NEVER do a Kit again - even though that's how I started in the 3DP World. It was a Total PITA to me. Even though, the upside - I have a Serious understanding of the operation of FDM printing - and, of course, that background and knowledge has only Expanded over the years - considering my time at SD3D, Essentium & now VM!

-K

[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!]

I gotta say - any time someone mentions Soluble Supports - it just makes me CRINGE! Just sayin'...

The only Solid solution on that (pun intended) was my SSys Mojo! But, all other attempts at it have SUCKED! As the soluble is DIFFICULT to Handle, difficult to print - as it MUST Be Kept DRY During printing, And many times, I've seen the filament crack and break - and breaking during printing will Fail a print.

Yeah - just sayin'...

-K

[BearsFan315]

yeah i love building kits and learning...

at this point just want one that is at least 80% where i want to go (and 80% prebuilt, no sourcing, hunting for parts, or cursing at missing parts), and i can get it where i want it. 

My ole printer, is a small bedslinger 200x200x180, Wanhao Duplicator i3 ORIGINAL first release with all the mods we as a group talked about and did. then got incorporated into the next few releases :) 

[BearsFan315]

have not seen a general 3d printer that has good soluble support, only the Stratasys we used was good at it

just some of hte R&D things i do are hollow or blind voids and hard to remove any printed supports :/

On Friday, June 14, 2024 at 11:30:08 AM UTC-4 Kurt The 3D Printer GUY! wrote:

[BearsFan315]

What is everyone's thoughts on the Creality K2 Max that is now on Presale ??

[markni...@gmail.com]

In my opinion, get a Voron 2.4 or clone.

They are, open source, use genuine linear rails, (not rods), and have a huge user base for mods and advice.

I don't know way anyone would go in another direction for general printing.

[bron...@gmail.com]

the stealth burner is a extruder feeder that can have many differnt hotends mounted to it

I currently prefer the dragon burner as it has better cooling but I have 4 of them on one voron 2.4 with different hot ends under each dragon burner

but yes I believe all of those hotends are supported

I would also suggest a 2.4 build I recently just found a kit for a friends on Aliexpress that has all the printed parts or all cnc machine aluminum for under $800 cdn

so probably like $600us if you look they are out there

[bron...@gmail.com]

also the Voron machines are very well documented and supported you should easily be able to find some slicer profiles to get you started and drastically cut the tuning down

[BearsFan315]

yeah looked at aliexpress when i started looking at hte troodon 2.0 pro saw various kits and sellers for the voron 2.4, saw a few complete kits updated with can and various options around $1000 shipped

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806667396774.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.33.3f248FT08FT0VR&algo_pvid=313d3acf-e5d7-46aa-8dbc-7aef1850d3ff&algo_exp_id=313d3acf-e5d7-46aa-8dbc-7aef1850d3ff-16&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%212866.27%21917.21%21%21%2120740.00%216636.80%21%402103241117188085429138009e491a%2112000038523816312%21sea%21US%210%21AB&curPageLogUid=ZZRypEVpPbNB&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803199034766.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.5.3f248FT08FT0VR&algo_pvid=313d3acf-e5d7-46aa-8dbc-7aef1850d3ff&algo_exp_id=313d3acf-e5d7-46aa-8dbc-7aef1850d3ff-2&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%21919.00%21865.05%21%21%21919.00%21865.05%21%402103241117188085429138009e491a%2112000034927523698%21sea%21US%210%21AB&curPageLogUid=gYn39wGe5wTA&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A

[BearsFan315]

forgot this one

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806459433350.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.3.3f248FT08FT0VR&algo_pvid=9a14adb4-4ce0-42e3-9e90-a24ed5441fc3&algo_exp_id=9a14adb4-4ce0-42e3-9e90-a24ed5441fc3-1&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%211040.00%21728.64%21%21%211040.00%21728.64%21%402101f08717188093927698515e1824%2112000037920902392%21sea%21US%210%21AB&curPageLogUid=yI0N5TRPUpki&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A

[Rob Hall]

Just found this amazing item on AliExpress. Check it out!
C$590.99  50%OFF | New 350mm 300mm Voron 2.4 R2 3D Printer DIY CoreXY 3D Printer Kit with Nevermore V5 DUO Activated Carbon Filter
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNfSgHq

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[BearsFan315]

looks like the older kit based on parts they list for it, also the info says it is a 300mm not the 350mm printer. 

[Rob Hall]

There is some work happening for the solvol v08 

For tool changing already 

On Thu, Jun 27, 2024, 6:25 AM Evan <iloveje...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would also recommend a Voron 2.4 clone like the Troodon. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/3ef462f1-f014-44a3-ad1b-c782b6702746n%40googlegroups.com.

[markni...@gmail.com]

Also Sovol 08 enclosure is now shipping, $170.00 free shipping

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqVO9W1lIT0

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

What?! $170??? Where???

[markni...@gmail.com]

Andy,

It's on the Sovol website:

https://www.sovol3d.com/products/sovol-sv08-3d-printer

Website is a little flaky, you have to scroll around.

I ordered one yesterday, and they confirmed.

[BearsFan315]

been doing a lot of reading, video watching, research, etc...

i have kind of leaning towards the Troodon 2.0 Pro 350

in talking with vivedino/ Formbot it has a custom BTT Octupus board (Chip F407 ) w/ TMC 2209 drivers,  BTT pi, Gates Belts, Meanwell Power supply, Moons Motors.

 it seems to be nicely equipped and most of the Voron 2.40 parts , mods, upgrades typically fit since it is base. Main one for me are the hot ends, so i can put in a Phaetus Dragon HF or Rapido, or the E3D versions.  vivedino/ Formbot provide the stl files for the upgrades, or get them from Voron site. 

looked at the Sovol 08 , proprietary hotend ?

both about the same print volume ~350, core xy, open source ?

probably be happy with either, Voron as out due to cost & time, really want one 80% where i want it to be and ready to rock !

also looked at Ender 5 plus, comgrow t500, Tronyx X5SA but all seem to be behind the 8 ball in features and equipment. sure you can can get any of them up to par, but more time and money !! and not in my 80% there 

[Rob Hall]

There's a guy on the draftshift discord that is converting the solvol to standard klipper and can bus  and regular voron tool heads

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/2cc0f656-4c87-4f94-942a-93976070307en%40googlegroups.com.

[Chris Albertson]

After building a Voron printer.  I would only recommend it to someone who wants to build a MODIFIED Voron.  So only if you do not intend to build a stock version.   Maybe you want an IDEX printer or toolhead charger or something else that you can not buy.   I think a factory can build cheaper than you can build from a kit.

The biggest problem with Voron is they are designed for “screwdriver assembly”. This is nice if you want to modify it but If the designer allows for another more exotic things like robotic spot welding the price can be reduced.   

I like the BTT octo and even the BTT Pi clone.  and all the other parts Formbot supplied in their kit.     I think my next upgrade will be a BTT filament motion sensor and an Eddy current bed sensor.  But those should work on the Trodden.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/2cc0f656-4c87-4f94-942a-93976070307en%40googlegroups.com.

[markni...@gmail.com]

I would think you would be happy with either choice, Trodon or Sovol sv08.

I sat on Sovol website on release day, and kept hitting refresh, like a teenage girl trying to score Taylor Swift tickets.

I was lucky enough to get my Sovol for $449.00 and received it 2 weeks later.

I have no complaint about the way I've been treated by Sovol. 

[BearsFan315]

pulled the trigger today
ordered the Troodon 2.0 Pro from FormBot
cant wait to see what I get, and how long it takes to get here

[markni...@gmail.com]

I just checked out the Formbot website.

The Troodon looks sweet.

Good luck!

[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!]

Yo Mark - you had me LAUGHING at your Purchase approach - especially your Swift comment! DAMN - that was HYSTERICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the chuckle - Much appreciated sir!

[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!]

Ironically Mark - a guy from FormBot (a Dr. something - obviously a PhD kinda guy)  - actually contacted us at VM - in regards to some operations of the new V3 version of our 22 IDEX & Calibration. Actually asking us Very Technical questions - in regards to problems they are trying to solve with their printers. We have Not responded back to the guy. But, yeah - I told my Eng. dude - the Ukranian who created our 22 IDEX Printer to go look at the email - and he did...

-K

[BearsFan315]

right now ETA is saturday :)

plan to build it and run it as is for now, then looking at upgrading the hot end. ability to print quality and small up to fast and large parts for prototyping. something with support and interchangeability.

Was looking at doing the Phaetus Dragon or Rapido (not sure i NEED high flow) read many good things about them, other option would be E3D Revo. Also read on the Slice Mosquito and CopperHead. 

[BearsFan315]

Well my Troodon arrived on Tuesday !!

it is sitting in the middle of my living room floor, guarded by my cat :) 

hoping in the next week or two to break it out and build it !!