PEI sheet

[Matt Saeger]

I have always used aquanet on glass and it works great but I decided to try this PEI sheet from gizmodorks. https://gizmodorks.com/pei-sheet-3d-printing-build-surface/

I used the 3M adhesive sheet to attach it to my glass bed.

I have been using it to print ABS and it is working great! The bottom surface of the part is the shiniest I have ever seen. I have printed quite a few parts and haven't even had to clean it. I like this better than the PEI flex plates because they say you can sand it if it quits sticking and I think it will be harder to damage.

 

[Alan B]

Looks great.

I've sanded the smooth PEI sticker on the original Prusa MK3 magnetic sheet many times to restore adhesion, until I found a better technique. After I started misting it periodically with Aquanet I find it no longer necessary to sand it. A light mist of Aquanet seems to restore the surface of the PEI. It's less work to periodically clean and mist with Aquanet rather than sanding, and it won't be worn away. The Aquanet seems to help the PEI to work better with PLA, and to protect it from over-adhesion from TPU and PETG.

Happy Printing.

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[Kurt at VRFX]

Alan - I Beg to Differ! I think your PEI got OLD and Worn - and the AQ is now taking over. Its NOT the AQ making the PEI better - its the replacment for the PEI efficiency! Just saying...

So - I guess that means - Dead PEI surfaces can have a NEW Life - be Resurrected via AQ!

That sounds Awesome - Right Andy?

AQ is the Best Hobbyist Solution!!!

-K

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[Alan B]

It is possible, however I don't think so. The amount of Aquanet that I mist is very little, and it lasts for many prints without cleaning or remisting. There isn't enough Aquanet applied to do the job on it's own. Remember, this is PEI that had little adhesion left by itself. I don't know exactly what chemistry is going on, but in any case this procedure is making a several year old well worn smooth PEI sheet continue to work perfectly, and the same procedure works for PLA, TPU and PETG (haven't tried ABS), however I make sure that the misting of Aquanet is fairly fresh for TPU and PETG to prevent over-adhesion which ruined the PEI on glass sheet of a Lulzbot I was using earlier. I also experimented with glue stick which makes a gloppy uneven layer compared to Aquanet, and with Windex for TPU/PETG which made variable adhesion and interfered with PLA printing, requiring a lot more cleaning and re-application. So the Aquanet has proven to be easier and more generally successful on the smooth PEI. 

I do avoid contaminating (touching) the top printing surface with finger oils and only use tools or bending the plate to release prints. This helps to keep the surface useful for many prints between remisting.

That's been my experience for thousands of prints, and I have not gone through a full can of Aquanet yet, it doesn't take much.

Whatever the interaction is, it seems to work pretty well with low effort and at minimal cost.

Happy Printing :)

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[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Is it rigid? If not then I don’t care how well you say it works… I’d still take a rigid glass plate with AQ over a flexoble sheet of anything.

[Matt Saeger]

Well it's 1mm thick and it is glued to a glass plate so I think it's rigid. 

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[Matt Saeger]

[Alan B]

I've moved away from glass to magnetic spring steel sheets. Ejecting parts by bending the sheet is such a useful feature and quite difficult on glass, and I have several surface types to print on. If a surface gets damaged I have spares available. Glass isn't the best surface for heat transfer. It is cheap and fairly flat, but there are better options these days. it's nice to have choices... I've seen glass broken (and come close to breaking it myself) trying to release prints.

Happy Printing

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[Matt Saeger]

I have never used one of those coated sheets. I always thought they would get scratched easily if I am too close to the bed or something.

[Alan B]

There are several kinds of PEI Spring Steel sheets. There are the matte or textured fused types, which are very rugged and don't seem to work too well for PLA but work great for TPU and PETG, and there are the types where a smooth PEI or other sheet has been applied with a 3M adhesive sticker.  Matte is said to be better with PLA than the textured surfaces. I did find textured surfaces to be difficult for PLA but I have not yet tried Aquanet on the textured surface which should fix the PLA adhesion. Matte is said to be better for PLA, but I have not tested that myself yet.

The Voron group has found that the adhesive backed sticker types are more easily marked (over time) by their new "Voron Tap" Z sensor which uses a Z rail in the printhead mount with an optical sensor to detect contact between the nozzle and the printbed, putting about 600g of force against it before triggering.

The fused type sheets don't show any marks from the Tap system. They surmise the 3M adhesive is softer than the PEI, or perhaps there is a difference in the PEI when formed into a sheet vs fused more directly onto the surface.

Most sheets provide printing surfaces on both sides, either the same surface, or smooth on one side and textured or matte on the other. So you get two surfaces.

The smooth sheets can be removed and replaced.

I haven't had trouble with the nozzle damaging the sheets, but of course it is certainly possible. 

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[Neil MacGregor]

+1 for PEI-coated spring steel sheets, I wholeheartedly agree.  No muss, no fuss, no spray, no glue, no tak ... just keep 'em clean & print some more.

[Context: Prusa i3]

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[Petr Ptacek]

I started on glass with Kapton tape with clips.

Then I moved to glass and Aquanet spray with clips.

Then I started to use a silicone thermal pad (used for CPU or GPU heatsinks) that is under the bed on the aluminum plate. The purpose is to grab the glass plate enough so it cannot move horizontally, but not enough so it peels away when you lift it up. It is simply effortless and lasts forever (I have one for almost 10 years now).

Then I updated my glass to borosilicate glass with glued PEI sheet on it. The flatness and the comfort of not bothering with spray were amazing, but getting prints of was not fun, especially on large flat prints.

And then I discovered G10 Garolite. And I'm in love. Still running thick MIC6 Alu plate to evenly distribute heat, then silicone thermal pad (you can sprinkle a bit of talk on a new one to cut on tackiness), and 1/32 (<1mm) Garolite sheet. 1mm is thin enough to conform to the flat bottom, it is dirt cheap (like $10 on 1 sqft cheap) and you can pick it up and peel it from the print without any effort.

My printing surface journey continues ...

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[Kurt at VRFX]

Glued to Glass - that's Rigid Indeed! Gotta Admit - the Pic is pretty Slick!!!

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[LukeH]

I’ve heard G10 is pretty good, especially for Nylon.

Personally, I have a 10mm aluminium plate, topped with an 8mm glass. The glass is heavy enough that it just sits on the plate without clips, and can expand evenly (the aluminium plate is also unconstrained). Obviously, you can’t do that if your printer has a moving bed, because it is crazy heavy (like 10kg), but works great for me - the bed has been level since I built it. I haven’t had to level my bed ever (it doesn’t even have levelling screws), and I always get a perfect first layer. I’ve run the levelling routine a couple of times over the years, but it has always returned a perfect result, not requiring adjustment.

[Neil MacGregor]

Luke, how long does that 10kg bed take to heat?   (Or, maybe you print without heat?)

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[Petr Ptacek]

Yeah, Luke, I'm printing Nylon on it and it works great. But it also works great for PETG and it works well enough for PLA (not as good as PEI), but I kind of do not care about PLA too much.

I have to test ABS yet on G10.

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[Luke Hartfiel]

It has a 220VAC, 700W silicone heater. Its t gets up to 70 degrees in around two minutes. Usually I set both the bed and nozzle to preheat at the same time, and they reach printing temperature at about the same time. Certainly it takes longer to clean the bed and swap the filament to the one I want for that print than it does to heat the bed.

Takes a while to cool down, but that doesn’t matter much for my purposes.

On 2 Dec 2022, at 7:20 am, Neil MacGregor <neil.ma...@ualberta.ca> wrote:



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[jfka...@gmail.com]

My new favorite is FR4 or garolite, especially for petg and nylon. Where has this magical surface been all my life? lol.  I glued the FR4 to boro glass, used an old piece that had a chip pulled out of the middle.  I still wipe down the fr4 with AQ before printing. Or sometimes use some glue stick. 

Still will always  be Glass and slurry for ABS though. Glass prepped with AQ then very thinned out slurry on to a 70c bed. Then heat rest of way to print. 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Imo, your not getting any real value from the garolite. Instead you’re getting it from the AQ.
We tested garolite plates extensively when the clonerr1 was delivered with one. Meh.

[jfka...@gmail.com]

I'm really just cleaning the surface with AQ, not really building up any significant layers. 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

You don't really need to build up layers. Our experience with Garolite was that it eventually bonded too well with whatever material we used on it. When that happens I usually move on. A simple mineral like glass or masonry like a clean tile or a mirror works just as well once wiped with a strong alcohol (which micro etches and removes all oils) and AQ.
I'll gladly use some rigid flat material if it works with all of our filaments and does not need AQ or anything else added to it. (note that includes PEI) but I've yet to see that.