XL thread

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Doing my setup now.

The “fully assembled” version is… not. The buyer still has to do some assembly including the ui panel, the spool holders, the WiFi ant (which is potentially very tricky since you have to attach a very very tiny connector on to the buddy board), the parking places and attaching the extruders. So Prusa is not being as honest about it as they need to be.

The method of tool attachment to the X carriage is a WAY better design than what E3d did. No need for a stepper or servo to lock the tool super cool! Here’s some pics of the extruder…

[James Fackert]

Well, I can't believe that they have not concluded that thread-in nozzles are miserable 

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[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

I think that’s a matter of opinion. I would prefer the thread. What I don’t prefer are nozzles which are proprietary which these are. I am a bit unsure about the thermal break which is this thin tube that it actually attached to the nozzle. We will see.

In the meantime the calibration takes a VERY long time.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Calibration completed after two fails. The first was during the calibration of the tools to the parking places. Worked on second try. Next fail was hotend offset calibration which failed half way through. That was on me though. It uses an alignment pin which I did not have all the way in on the bed.

All tests passed. Tomorrow first prints.

[vr...@optonline.net]

Thanks for the updates Andy. I look forward to seeing how well it prints - as that is obviously Key!

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2023 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: XL thread
Calibration completed after two fails. The first was during the calibration of the tools to the parking places. Worked on second try. Next fail was hotend offset calibration which failed half way through. That was on me though. It uses an alignment pin which I did not have all the way in on the bed.

All tests passed. Tomorrow first prints.

 

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[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

While it uses a significant amount of metal, just about all the plastic parts are 3d printed and frankly they are not all that well printed. All the parts have patterns in them. None of the 3d printed parts could handle tighter tolerances. 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

oboy it is this thing ever half baked!

There’s some thing’s which are brilliant, and there other things which are hubris filled boneheaded.

ALL the logic for the tool management is in the start gcode and the start gcode is over two pages long and filled with Boolean logic. Those of us who have tried if/thens with gcode already know that it takes way too long. Regardless it’s buggy and makes mistakes such as parking the tool unnecessarily and sending the tool all the way to the front jigging it back and forth for who knows why then parking it while it heats up. Who wrote this shit?!

Print wise, I’m getting a yucky pattern in X/y on all five extruders.

Initial review would be a major thumbs down.

[vr...@optonline.net]

Wow, what a Major PITA - I guess Jody was Right!

 

I was even going to follow-up with you directly via a DM - in regards to testing of PCTG w/PLA - but, at this point, who knows how long it will take to get to the point of Viable prints, must less testing something like Supports!

 

I surely feel your Pain!

 

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2023 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: Re: XL thread
oboy it is this thing ever half baked!

There’s some thing’s which are brilliant, and there other things which are hubris filled boneheaded.

ALL the logic for the tool management is in the start gcode and the start gcode is over two pages long and filled with Boolean logic. Those of us who have tried if/thens with gcode already know that it takes way too long. Regardless it’s buggy and makes mistakes such as parking the tool unnecessarily and sending the tool all the way to the front jigging it back and forth for who knows why then parking it while it heats up. Who wrote this shit?!

Print wise, I’m getting a yucky pattern in X/y on all five extruders.

Initial review would be a major thumbs down.

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/50aba3a8-4101-499b-8e7d-17dedf8decd9n%40googlegroups.com.
 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Oh… I’ll get viable prints alright…. That’s not the  problem. 

The problem is I see inconsistent extrusion in X and Y.

As such I don’t get clean straight lines… Resulting in walls that look matte or textured. I wonder if others with this machine without the experience  think that this is ok. It’s not. Something is wrong.
Now if this were only one of the five extruder tools,  one could presume it’s a specific hw problem. Unfortunately, it’s all five tools which makes it a systemic problem and that would be unfortunate.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

I finally got through to support. Seems there’s a quirk in the way PS manages its printer profiles that really tripped me up. It seems that print related setting are decoupled from the presets. I downloaded the xl 5 .6 Printer profile, but the print quality stayed from prev printers! Trying cal cube again.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Got it working wayyy better (although note... not perfect)... Prev print on the left new print on the right.

[vr...@optonline.net]

I agree - that's definitely MUCH better. Oddly, I noticed the better one on the right has a lot of stringing, where as the worse one on left doesn't. As though one problem solved, but, another problem created. And, am also curious about something. Since - it would be logical that you might get stringing on a part if there are either (1) Travel moves - Or - (2) Tool changes. But, for a simple cube like that, Neither of those 2 conditions should be happening. 

 

So - do you have any insights on why I am seeing that kind of stringing occurring??

 

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, October 6, 2023 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: XL thread
Got it working wayyy better (although note... not perfect)... Prev print on the left new print on the right.

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/8592fbdd-75be-4bdf-a0ab-959c121d0b2en%40googlegroups.com.
 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

What you see is a single string that was at the start. 

I enlarged the box in PS, painted it (virtually) with five colors and printed my first multi tool changing print.

No prime tower.

What happened was interesting. It seems Prusa sets it to retract on tool change then on picking the tool detract on to the nozzle seal thing. The material touch’s this flimsy pad and seems to slightly stick to it so when the tool travels out to the print the material strings away behind the tool. The multicolor print failed when 1 spool ran out and the tip jammed in the guide tube. However, the faint strings were all over.

As I feared Prusa did not bother to even attempt to solve the priming puzzle… and since this machines approach is actually closed source in its operation I don’t see an easy path to working it out. 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Upped the retraction when tool disabled to 10.2mm and it looks like it eliminated a lot of stringing!

Worked great for a 2 color cube. Now trying two color cat. Starting to feel good.

[vr...@optonline.net]

Ouch - I agree, that's Bad! Since its closed source - then Prusa MUST fix the problems. Are they actually receptive when you report problems back to them???

 

------ Original Message ------
From: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, October 6, 2023 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: XL thread
What you see is a single string that was at the start. 

I enlarged the box in PS, painted it (virtually) with five colors and printed my first multi tool changing print.

No prime tower.

What happened was interesting. It seems Prusa sets it to retract on tool change then on picking the tool detract on to the nozzle seal thing. The material touch’s this flimsy pad and seems to slightly stick to it so when the tool travels out to the print the material strings away behind the tool. The multicolor print failed when 1 spool ran out and the tip jammed in the guide tube. However, the faint strings were all over.

As I feared Prusa did not bother to even attempt to solve the priming puzzle… and since this machines approach is actually closed source in its operation I don’t see an easy path to working it out. 

 

On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 10:43:10 AM UTC-7 vrfx wrote:
 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/c0e1df7e-2549-4580-b776-80e4988a7999n%40googlegroups.com.
 

[vr...@optonline.net]

Awesome on quick iterations of your testing - and glad you're feeling hopeful about the printer! Cool!!

 

------ Original Message ------
From: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, October 6, 2023 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: XL thread
Upped the retraction when tool disabled to 10.2mm and it looks like it eliminated a lot of stringing!

Worked great for a 2 color cube. Now trying two color cat. Starting to feel good.
 

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/2f8d2d53-c84c-4224-a7fa-2713cf5e773an%40googlegroups.com.
 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

The 2 color cat was done without a prime tower and without any priming.

Basically I did the exact same thing as I did with the Tenlog IDEX; I retract on tool changing out if the melt zone. Seemed to work ok.
Lots more tests to come. Last print I tried a single extruder large print, but I learned an important lesson about the pei powder coated plate… any oils from my hand will compromise stick. That’s not a problem for Aquanet at all.

[vr...@optonline.net]

Meow, meow, meow - what a Pretty Kitty!!!

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, October 6, 2023 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: XL thread
The 2 color cat was done without a prime tower and without any priming.

Basically I did the exact same thing as I did with the Tenlog IDEX; I retract on tool changing out if the melt zone. Seemed to work ok.
Lots more tests to come. Last print I tried a single extruder large print, but I learned an important lesson about the pei powder coated plate… any oils from my hand will compromise stick. That’s not a problem for Aquanet at all.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/863c04f5-5020-430d-853b-c31a42186da6n%40googlegroups.com.
 

[Glenn Turner]

I listen to the podcast regularly while doing certain car trips. But your...... early thoughts (independent and factual as ever) about about the XL has drawn me to the google group. I have put a deposit down on XL ages go. I get a feeling the XL hardware for the most part is ok but the XL software needs more work (at least out of the box). Prusa is good at updating software but my guess is the mutli-toolchanger code is not full baked or key features absent.  

[vr...@optonline.net]

Its kinda funny Glen what you mentioned - since, it was my BotGuy-Goes-Across-America trip where I truly dug into the Podcast, and Andy and Whitney helped me NOT to Loose my Mind on the Long Journey...

 

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: gyrosc...@gmail.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, October 6, 2023 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: XL thread
I listen to the podcast regularly while doing certain car trips. But your...... early thoughts (independent and factual as ever) about about the XL has drawn me to the google group. I have put a deposit down on XL ages go. I get a feeling the XL hardware for the most part is ok but the XL software needs more work (at least out of the box). Prusa is good at updating software but my guess is the mutli-toolchanger code is not full baked or key features absent.  

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/d0b3c51a-d8ed-40d0-a327-815ddb8efa51n%40googlegroups.com.
 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

I do get very faint strings but they do not effect print quality nor get in the way at all.

Time to start getting bigger.

I should also say at this point that as a toolchanger the XL is absolutely brilliant compared to the E3d. 100% toolchange reliability. 

[Scott R]

Andy, 

Thanks for all the updates on this adventure. When you printed the test cubes, were they dimensionally accurate? I'm assuming so, but just wanted to confirm.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Yes pretty close to the 20x20x10mm.

We’re going to preempt the next planned recording of the podcast and only talk about this machine.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Here's a sample. Good, but not perfect. Tiny bob on the right eye brow and gaps on his chest. However its about as good as the E3D tool changer but in about 1/3 of the time. Actually I'd say the layers are a touch cleaner then the Orbitor feeders I have on the E3D.

[vr...@optonline.net]

Holy Cow - I'm actually quite thrilled to see you are finding the XL superior to the E3D unit at this point in time! Of Course, the E3D seems to have gone the way of the Dodo Bird - so, I'm glad there is a NEW Option that so far is doing much better!!!

 

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2023 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: XL thread
I do get very faint strings but they do not effect print quality nor get in the way at all.

Time to start getting bigger.

I should also say at this point that as a toolchanger the XL is absolutely brilliant compared to the E3d. 100% toolchange reliability. 

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/f090bad5-ee55-48e8-ba99-d41b8319a9ffn%40googlegroups.com.
 

[vr...@optonline.net]

Wow - that's a big change for you - to interrupt your standard Podcast feed. I appreciate it and I REALLY Look forward to it!

It obviously shows exactly HOW Excited you are about the XL. Needless to say, I also look forward to hear what Whitney has to say, whether its hearing him laugh about how excited you are and him being Enthused - OR - on the flip side - him trying to see if he can poke holes in your excitement or doubt what the machine can do. Either way, I'm sure listening to the Podcast will truly be a Blast!

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, October 9, 2023 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: XL thread
Yes pretty close to the 20x20x10mm.

We’re going to preempt the next planned recording of the podcast and only talk about this machine.
 

 

On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 8:44:53 PM UTC-7 whymein...@gmail.com wrote:
 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/253b5696-02db-416f-b1dd-d5378d50b09bn%40googlegroups.com.
 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

This is with four colors of PLA and with PETG used with full contact supports. Note the brown missed some spots.The filament broke in the guide tube and I had to shove more through to the feeder.

[Neil MacGregor]

The filament broke in the guide tube...

Do you attribute that to bad filament, or was the spool blocked somehow, or does it point to a problem with the machine?

I've ever seen filament break while printing unless it was old / had absorbed a lot of moisture.

Really interesting teething problems!

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/2f2e7e18-4797-40ba-9370-2fa955f391fan%40googlegroups.com.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

If you use PLA and it's not as fresh as it can come it will easily break in the guide tubes. I've had it happen with two spools so far. The guide tubes are not a larger diameter (as they should have been) as such there's a lot of friction because they are quite long.

PLA goes brittle from UV exposure NOT moisture. As such after printing it's a good practice to completely remove PLA spools and put them in a sealed bag with a desiccant bag and then placed in a dark box or closet... NO LIGHT AT ALL especially sun light or fluorescent.

Those who store their spools on a rack in the open for convenience will quickly see the filament break real easy. It only takes a couple of days with a new spool.

Regardless, the two spools that broke on me were over 6 months old.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Also as you can see if you look real close on both pics. Really small tool paths are not printing as clean as I would like. I believe it is the fault of the nozzle diameter. The XL comes with .6mm nozzles. I never bought into the idea of going all .6mm nozzles (per that goober, youtuber) with the Arachne engine in PS. I think it's BS. I've already ordered five .4mm nozzles... $170. It seems Jo really believes what Tom says.

[Jody Harris (imhavoc)]

0.4mm nozzles. 0.6mm nozzles. It depends on what you're printing. I never print fine details. All my prints (Okay, not ALL) are big, chunky functional parts. I think I had a 0.6 mm nozzle waiting when my first printer arrived. 0.7mm outer perimeters, 0.8mm for the rest. If the details are finer than you can get with a 0.7mm extrusion, I'll never see them.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

I just posted this on the Prusa forum amongst a debate about the "Absorbing Heat" nonsense. People questioned why it's an issue that the wait time at the start of each print is so excessive...

The issue is the waits reflect how little Prusa has actually worked out things like optimal task flows, procedures and setups leaving the details of working it out for their users rather than using all the time they had for this while trying to work out the supply chain. How long have we all waited?

It is not just the absorbing heat wait. Those of us with other make large format fdm machines know that most use cases don’t require probing the bed for every print. I only probe the bed for tramming on the E3d toolchanger when there’s a change in the plate which is not too often. I always get optimal first layers regardless on it. 
They didn’t bother with providing their users with the nozzle temps on the panel nor in their craptastic way of looking at it through WiFi. It’s as if they did not care at all!  So when the tool is parked with zero feedback to the user there no way to know what is going on. That reflects a fairly negative attitude towards the user. Just leave them out of the loop, they don’t need to know..lets make them stand there and wait like a fool.
Then there’s the nozzle cleaning! Why do that where you may print? Leaving little bits there on the bed. Why not do it on the tabs at the front of the plate? Better yet WHY do it? If the load cell needs it to be clean then what about the other four nozzles? They don’t get cleaned! And… that leads me to something Prusa has completely ignored that we all learned with other tool changers; all nozzles need to be cleaned off completely before each print. Pulling each of the five tools out manually is a bit of a pain and shows they had no idea it needed to be done. They’ve done only the bare minimum to Prusaslicer. They’ve completely ignored the fact that the priming tower it makes can’t be used for multiple materials as in pla/PETG combos for full contact support.

HOWEVER…

This IS a BRILLIANT machine which prints optimally and as a tool changer is very fast. Note it is now THE ONLY TOOL CHANGER.

All this crap is typical for Prusa. We’ve seen it in almost every product they’ve put out. They are a tiny and still immature company unilaterally led by someone filled with hubris… not all that different from what we all saw at Makerbot. Look what happened there.

[vr...@optonline.net]

In regards to your posting to the Prusa forum - did you really post the following comments to the forum - or were those comments just to us here: "All this crap is typical for Prusa. We’ve seen it in almost every product they’ve put out. They are a tiny and still immature company unilaterally led by someone filled with hubris…"???

 

Just curious. I know your being honest with what you wrote, but, gosh - the Prusa folks might get offended and try to pull those comments back off the forum.

 

So - yeah, am really curious!

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: XL thread

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[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

I got more agreement there then I expected. The cult of Prusa is on FB. Say anything like that there and it generates a flame war.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

I get back from my trip and figured .i should get right back to printing. Start up a print job and I get a “Failed nozzle cleaning error”. I have no idea what’s wrong with this thing.

This machine was not ready for shipment.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Again… second time… The issue is somehow connected to the “Print setting” menu. I switched the Print Setting from Fine to Speed and it worked perfectly.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Printing single extruder. You can see the effect of the .6mm sized nozzle from the line right where the decks are on the other side. Print one the left is release FW, print on the right is latest alpha release which includes input shaping. You can’t see it but there is an improvement with the ringing on the hole in the bow.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

The new fw added spool join so when one spool is used up the XL switches to another tool. Works great! This feature could easily become a standard for all task flows. 

[vr...@optonline.net]

Hey Andy - Very, VERY Interesting!!!

Actually...

At Essentium - I had been working on my Lazarus project - which I DID Post about here. And, one of the last requests was to have my program work so that when the printer ran out of filament on Head 1 - the printer would pause, and then someone could run my Lazarus App to switch the print job to run on Head 2. But, alas - that never got implemented before EWest (Essentium in Cali) Imploded! But, yeah - VERY Similar to what the new XL Firmware can do. VERY Cool indeed - and TRULY an Appropriate Implementation. In theory - NOW - the XL could go Seriously BIG! But, could the printer Bed Handle a Print that is 3Kg in size???

 

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2023 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: Re: XL thread
 

The new fw added spool join so when one spool is used up the XL switches to another tool. Works great! This feature could easily become a standard for all task flows. 
 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/bbbfba13-b65e-40de-888d-48e4d9422ed2n%40googlegroups.com.
 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Actually, I’m reading posts that are describing a usb problem. Seems with larger prints the usb thumb drive gets read fails. I haven’t seen this yet, but they’re approach to use thumb drives over sd cards always bothered me.it should be both.

[vr...@optonline.net]

Wow -- Interesting! Sounds like another example of where my Lazarus project could be Useful!!!

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, October 30, 2023 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: XL thread

Actually, I’m reading posts that are describing a usb problem. Seems with larger prints the usb thumb drive gets read fails. I haven’t seen this yet, but they’re approach to use thumb drives over sd cards always bothered me.it should be both.

 

On Sunday, October 29, 2023 at 5:02:54 PM UTC-7 vrfx wrote:
 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/7a039e39-15f8-46be-b560-52fa81484b13n%40googlegroups.com.
 

[Dan Newman]

On 10/30/23 9:24 AM, 3D Printing Tips and Tricks wrote:
> Actually, I’m reading posts that are describing a usb problem. Seems
> with larger prints the usb thumb drive gets read fails. I haven’t seen
> this yet, but they’re approach to use thumb drives over sd cards always
> bothered me.it should be both.

Bit of a blast from the past.... I recall when we went through similar
circa 2012 with 8bit micros. Almost certainly caused by different
issues. But end result the same: failed prints.

Back 10+ years ago, most everyone was using the same outdated version of
the same 8bit SD card library and having issues with prints from SD
cards failing. Basically, the longer the print the more likely to have
a mysterious failure. And there were basically two issues. First:
most of the electronic designs were by amateurs and they'd make too long
of traces between SD card and mCPU, through too noisy of areas, with no
EMF filtering, with no termination resistors nor impedance matching, too
far from the power with no caps to help smooth transients, etc.. DIYers
would address some of this with shielding or other point fixes. Second,
there were the long-since fixed bugs in that SD card library, plus at
least one undiscovered and impactful bug which we found in the Sailfish
space. But most no one leading the firmware camps were upgrading, even
when we alerted them to the resolved issues. For sailfish, we got some
benefit by enabling CRC checking on reads and re-attempting those reads
with failures. But, at the end of the day, there was no polishing a
turd: the poor electrical designs were the fundamental issue.

The 32 bit processors which came with improved -- updated, more capable
-- libraries helped on the software side. And there were plenty of good
reference implementations from Atmel (now Microship), STM, etc. for
using SD cards (and USB thumbdrives) with their chip sets. Something
which was thin on the ground for the 8bit micros.

No clue what this issue might be on the XL. I'm just recalling the bad
memories many of us have from the 8bit days 10+ years ago and the hoops
we jumped through trying to fix.

As to USB vs. SD: the calculus may have been "biggest bang for the buck"
by using USB. You can always pop an SD card -- full size or micro --
into a USB carrier which presents good ol' USB-A. The downside is that
in some commercial settings, USB thumb drives are really frowned upon.
(Vector for too many things Bad.) But I can understand why a company
might feel that going the USB route will satisfy more campers.

Dan

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Speaking of Lazarus!

I've been getting impressive results with the XL, but it's worth noting that each of my Rep2s (which BTW use Sailfish) can still can out print any Mendel including a Prusa MkIII. Thanks Dan!

[iguana]

Prusa XL vs E3D Toolchanger -- which would you pick today and why -- top 5

thx

[vr...@optonline.net]

I'm not Andy. But, I will say this... 

The E3D is NO Longer an option today. You simply can't buy one. The E3D folks already pulled the plug on it.

As such - nope - you can't really "pick it" today!

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: iru...@gmail.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2023 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: XL thread
Prusa XL vs E3D Toolchanger -- which would you pick today and why -- top 5

 

thx

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/afa7388d-9697-43d0-9867-505e0e560067n%40googlegroups.com.
 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Prusa XL hands down:

1. Five extruders

2. Big build area

3. Reputable producer who, while they do put out half baked products, fully stand behind their products years after they’ve moved on with new designs.

4. Wicked fast. You should see the travel speed when it printed the Hueforge stuff. Wow! Toolchanges in under 4 seconds.

5. Extruder design negates the need for priming.Which enhances the speed even more.

Honestly folks I’ve been holding back. This machine has totally blown me away and as the fw updates roll out so does new features and new functionality some of which I’d never even thought of. If I could,  I’d get rid of ALL my other machines and only have XLs!

That said… I would bet that the Bambu people are already working on a larger format toolchanger and that machine will be really incredible.

Kurt’s correct. E3d abandoned their toolchanger and it’s real easy to see why. The Prusa XL has made it totally obsolete. But, note, you can still buy the E3d until they run out of stock. I don’t recommend it though. The E3d was a project. The Prusa XL is a productive tool.

[iguana]

can you explain #5 more:   Extruder design negates the need for priming.Which enhances the speed even more.

Are you saying if I build my own toolchanger using existing extuder designs  -- I will still miss out on what Prusa XL brings to the table.

fyi: I am discounting the load cell sensor -- which to me is a nice too have.  

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

The new xl and mkiv nozzles (they’re the same)integrate the thermal tube into the nozzle as a single part.
This provides enough blockage along that tube so that when I retract out of the melt zone all the material gets sucked out. Just like what I have with the Tenlog idex. If you can do that then you don’t need to prime or wipe. It’s so awesome!

[vr...@optonline.net]

Mr. Iguana - 2 things I will add. 

 

1) In regards to #5 - have you listened to Podcast #500??? I believe that's the # - and I Believe it will answer your question!

2) As Andy stated - E3D may still sell the unit, until they are Out of Stock. But, I wanted to add - considering they have decided NOT to pursue the product anymore - they will NOT be giving support - At least I believe that is the case. 

 

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: iru...@gmail.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 6, 2023 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: XL thread
can you explain #5 more:   Extruder design negates the need for priming.Which enhances the speed even more.

 

Are you saying if I build my own toolchanger using existing extuder designs  -- I will still miss out on what Prusa XL brings to the table.

 

fyi: I am discounting the load cell sensor -- which to me is a nice too have.  

 

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/3938a2c5-c51a-4b93-8303-434a6339ffb3n%40googlegroups.com.
 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Believe me it was not by design. Purely accidental. Prusa’s presets all use their terrible prime tower.

[iguana]

dumb question -- do you know if a prusa xl nozzle adapter , will negate this effect? it allows you to attach normal nozzles to prusa xl. or mk iv

[iguana]

i will litsen to it if I havent already, thx

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

I’m not sure. I have one and have yet to try it, The machine is working so brilliantly that I’m actually afraid to change anything.

[Jody Harris (imhavoc)]

Andy, What kind of flow rates are you getting for PETG so far (mm^3/sec) out of the Nextruder? No one reports PETG flow rates.

-j

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Interesting question.  Flow rate calculations do not factor the material. Only the hw as far as I can see. Some people use extrusion multiplier as the flow rate setting and per the PS preset it’s set to 1. Which is interesting given it.s usually set to .9 in S3d for PETG. Actually extrusion multiplier is only one of a couple of settings that effect flow rate such as ext width as well as nozzle size… depending on the slicer sw.

Looking into Prusaslicer’s preset for generic PETG and a .6 mm nozzle…there is a setting “Max volumetric speed” which is 17mm3/sec, however that’s not the flow rate because it varies per the note they have in the preset. Take a look in PS.

BUT…

Remember we’re talking toolchanging and toolchanging means a LOT more control is needed on flow rate, unless of course on understands priming and wiping… which Prusa doesn’t. I finally got optimal results with PETG but I had to use a prime tower which caught all the blobs. This is NOT a good solution since blobs on the prime tower can easily cause a crash.

[Morten Hansen]

I really appreciate your deep dive into the XL. I ordered the XL with two tool heads as a Christmas present for myself, so I will be following everything here very closely. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/b7e782d7-5e4b-4cc6-86fb-6d93a1144e21n%40googlegroups.com.

[Alan B]

I recently received the Prusa XL one to two head upgrade and installed it. I'm getting good results with two toolheads thus far. I haven't had the problems I've seen so often on youtube with multi-head XLs. My designs (in OpenSCAD) are generally mechanical in nature so the number of tool swaps are low. The documentation doesn't spend much time on setting up the drip stops, so I made my own procedure for setting those perhaps more precisely than is often done.

I need to decide whether I want more than two toolheads. Apparently there are only one, two or five toolhead setups, so if you want 3 or 4 you just have to buy 5 and not install some of them, if that even is supported. Three would be a good number since the spools can be on one side of the printer. Four or five require spools on both sides requiring more width and more access to thread filament. Filament loading can be difficult especially if access is restricted. It might be better to come up with an overhead spool setup like a Repbox, though the filament sensors are on the sides and the wiring for those would have to be sorted out as well as the filament feed tubes.

This experience has made me think perhaps I want tool changing on some other printers, perhaps the Trident or maybe the RailCore. More likely a Trident. Modifying my designs to use tool changing would make more sense if I had more than one tool changer.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/CAE_1_gAJkjLG4yuapfv7dwhxKkSbtPZw61ogtuwxOyRkg1yuFA%40mail.gmail.com.