stepper motor current adjustment

[Daniel Rosen]

Hi there group!. I recently upgraded why CR01s with an original bondtech extruder. I had very successful prints with it. However, always wondered if the current adjustment was needed like is recommended in the instructions. (https://support.bondtech.se/Guide/00.+Stepper+Current+Adjustment+On+CR-10S/46)

Coincidentally, learning on how to my new multimeter I run into this YouTube video that suggests

1) increase power source voltage to 13.5

2) Z stepper motor from 500mA up to 750mA

I am yet to check the current on my stepper motors and wanted you know your opinion

Thanks

Dan 

[Todd Shonts]

You only need to increase if it's skipping steps or decrease it if it's getting hot. That said, you got a new multimeter it's a good excuse to try it out. I have a Bondtech extruder with a Mosquito hot end on a CR-10 and it's been working flawlessly for quite some time. I did check mine after install but it's been so long ago I don't remember but I don't thing I made much of a change.

[Daniel Rosen]

Thanks for the reply. I dont think the printer is missing any steps. I am happy with the prints. I tested the voltage and is right at 750mA which I think is around the recommended bondtech settings.

[LukeH]

The days of manually setting stepper driver currents with a multimeter and a screwdriver have been gone for a long, long time. I certainly haven’t had to do that on a printer since about 2017, since newer printer control boards come with TMC stepper drivers that run in UART or SPI, which allows the firmware to control and set the stepper current (at least if you are running Marlin, Klipper, or RRF - I can’t vouch for the others). If I have adjusted the current, it has been by bringing up the menu on screen, and just selecting the current I want.

Better cooling solutions for control boards has also meant that they can be run at higher currents without issue, so default setups from printer manufacturers tend to run warm, and so skipping steps isn’t as common as it used to be.

The CR10S has TMC2208  stepper drivers right, so their currently will be set in firmware, with no manual adjustment required?

[Kurt at VRFX]

This is an interesting discussion, as it relates to my day job! So, yeah - understood - should be no need to manually change motor current. But, am curious - are you able to view the current during printing - to confirm fluxuations? I suspect not.

-K

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "3D Printing Tips and Tricks" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to 3d-printing-tips--...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/43f5fc4c-a098-4b92-a9c0-8e95996426f9n%40googlegroups.com.

[Luke Hartfiel]

Kurt,

Pretty sure what we can set in firmware is peak current, although I’m happy to be corrected. That was also pretty much what you did using a multimeter as well.

On 13 Aug 2021, at 12:48 am, Kurt at VRFX <vr...@optonline.net> wrote:



You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "3D Printing Tips and Tricks" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/3d-printing-tips--tricks/_z2XPPGFCh4/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 3d-printing-tips--...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/f2cbdc8e-93c9-5d87-52c6-1972e6ab3e14%40optonline.net.

[Daniel Rosen]

All, interesting discussion. Sorry may lack of reply but I had to google most of the stuff you said. To illustrate my level of ignorance first I had to learn how to use a multimeter (thanks YouTube!). I have the V2.2 silent board with the TMC2208 stepper drivers. Bondtech site still indicates it requires manual adjustment.
I don’t see any way of checking the current

Dan

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/FBCB82D7-3703-4DD5-88A8-D6D4742C07C4%40gmail.com.

[Luke Hartfiel]

What firmware are you running?

If you are running TMC2208 and still using a multimeter and screwdriver to set stepper currents, then you are probably running them stuck in Stand Alone mode. That means that they will always start to skip at even moderate speeds, since the stepper drivers will likely be stuck in Stealthchop mode to make them “super silent”. You can run hybrid mode (where the stepper driver switches to spread cycle mode to provide more grunt at higher speeds) without UART (which a one of the methods for the control board processor to automatically adjust the settings of the stepper driver on the fly as required).

I guess for a stock CR10s, that may not be an issue, since they are only designed to plod along at 40-60mm/s (which is super slow by modern standards). That is until you want to stick a BMG or Orbiter or similar extruder on it, and have to run the extruder stepper motor much faster because of the gearing.

It is also surprising because even the cheap board you can buy on AliExpress these day (like the SKR Mini E3 V2) use hardware UART. I’ve never actually seen a 32-bit board that didn’t, although admittedly some of the early ones required some additional wiring, compared to the new ones which just require some jumpers to turn it on.

What a pain in the butt.

> On 14 Aug 2021, at 5:50 am, Daniel Rosen <dgros...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> All, interesting discussion. Sorry may lack of reply but I had to google most of the stuff you said. To illustrate my level of ignorance first I had to learn how to use a multimeter (thanks YouTube!). I have the V2.2 silent board with the TMC2208 stepper drivers. Bondtech site still indicates it requires manual adjustment.

[Daniel Rosen]

Oh WOW. This is so much complicated that I predicted. The firmware I have is the "CR-10S: Mainboard Firmware, Bl touch, Open Source/SD Card Files Download”. I upgraded to install my BL touch from the official Creality site. I honestly dont know if I am running them in stand Alone Mode, Stelathchop mode or Hybrid mode. How do I find that out? How do I change it to Hybrid?

[Luke Hartfiel]

I’ve never much bothered with stealth-chop or hybrid modes - I don’t run my printers slow enough for either to be very useful. I mostly use spread-cycle where I can.

Although I don’t own your printer or board, I notice that it requires modifications, including a little soldering of wires, and new firmware to get it to communicate with the processor via UART, which is the only way to make use of some of the features of the TMC2208.

On 14 Aug 2021, at 11:42 pm, Daniel Rosen <dgros...@gmail.com> wrote:

Oh WOW. This is so much complicated that I predicted. The firmware I have is the "CR-10S: Mainboard Firmware, Bl touch, Open Source/SD Card Files Download”. I upgraded to install my BL touch from the official Creality site. I honestly dont know if I am running them in stand Alone Mode, Stelathchop mode or Hybrid mode. How do I find that out? How do I change it to Hybrid?

[Daniel Rosen]

OK. I did it…I FRIED MY BOARD!!!! Z and E are not moving and I detect not current with my multimeter on Z. Any good suggestions for a replacement?

[Kurt Wendt]

I wonder if a Duet board would be a good option for you!?!?

-K

P.S. No need to CC me in your reply - as it just gives me Duplicate emails...

P.P.S. Just sayin'...

[TobyCWood]

CR10? I'd go SKR Mini.

[Luke Hartfiel]

I agree that an SKR Mini would be the go, given that they are basically designed as replacement boards for Creality machines.

You will want the SKR mini E3 V2, and you will also need the special cable (the “SKR Mini E3 V2.0 Cable”) to allow you to keep using the stock screen. Plenty of step by step tutorials on how it is done, and a selection of pre-compiled firmwares of your choice.

On 15 Aug 2021, at 6:24 am, TobyCWood <andyc...@gmail.com> wrote:

CR10? I'd go SKR Mini.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/c5b7a485-f766-42fb-b8ea-b50da16aa215n%40googlegroups.com.

[Daniel Rosen]

Thanks guys!  I just cancelled my amazon order for the creality CR10 V2.2 board and will order the SKR mini E3 instead. I read that the TM 2209s are better. I have the CR10s that uses dual z steppers but the SKR mini only has one z driver. How do I connect the 2nd z stepper motor to the SKR mini? Is there a Y cable?

Thanks much 

[Luke Hartfiel]

According to the GitHub repository, there will be one stepper driver for Z, but two ports to plug in two stepper motors. No Y-cable required.

See pick, where the two connection points are labelled “ZAM” and “ZBM”:

On 15 Aug 2021, at 10:17 am, Daniel Rosen <dgros...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks guys!  I just cancelled my amazon order for the creality CR10 V2.2 board and will order the SKR mini E3 instead. I read that the TM 2209s are better. I have the CR10s that uses dual z steppers but the SKR mini only has one z driver. How do I connect the 2nd z stepper motor to the SKR mini? Is there a Y cable?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/d590a11c-c73e-4702-b080-fe314c4a149cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Luke Hartfiel]

Also, the TMC2209 stepper drivers are “better”, I guess, than the TMC2208, but the major differences are the ability to run higher stepper motor currents, and use sensorless homing. Unless you are specifically needing those things, there won’t be any significant performance difference between the two.

On 15 Aug 2021, at 2:01 pm, Luke Hartfiel <lhar...@gmail.com> wrote:



According to the GitHub repository, there will be one stepper driver for Z, but two ports to plug in two stepper motors. No Y-cable required.

See pick, where the two connection points are labelled “ZAM” and “ZBM”:

<image.jpg>

[Daniel Rosen]

This cable, right?

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 14, 2021, at 11:05 PM, Luke Hartfiel <lhar...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Luke Hartfiel]

Hard to say from the photo, since all ribbon cables look similar, but maybe?

The only thing that is special about the SKR mini cable for CR-10 is that it switches some of the pins at one end to make it easy to plug in. You could do it yourself with your existing cable, but at less than $2 for this one, it probably isn’t worth your time.

On 16 Aug 2021, at 12:48 am, Daniel Rosen <dgros...@gmail.com> wrote:

This cable, right?

<image.png>

[Daniel Rosen]

Mmmm, then I may ordered the wrong cable. This one is $5.99

BIGTREETECH TFT24 Interface Cable CR10 to EXP 30CM with Simple Cow Plug Make SKR Mini E3 V2.0 Suitable for CR10 CR10S Printer
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08DY43QT7?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

[Luke Hartfiel]

Should be fine. I was looking at the AliExpress price. Amazon will be slightly more expensive, but you’ll get it much sooner.

On 16 Aug 2021, at 7:50 am, Daniel Rosen <dgros...@gmail.com> wrote:

Mmmm, then I may ordered the wrong cable. This one is $5.99

[Daniel Rosen]

So I connected the new SKR Mini E3 V2.0 to my cr10s and it reboots everytime I push the knob. Any suggestions?

[Luke Hartfiel]

Well that doesn’t look good.

Step one would be to check and re-check your wiring. 

Step two would be to flash with a known good version of the firmware. If I owned a CR-10S, I’d start here: https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Configurations/tree/import-2.0.x/config/examples/Creality/CR-10S/BigTreeTech%20SKR%20Mini%20E3%202.0

If I owned a different model, I would look around The same GItHub repository for pre-configured printer/co trip board combinations.

The firmware isn’t pre-compiled though, so you will follow one of the many guides to compile. You shouldn’t need to edit any configuration files though.

If after that it doesn’t work, it is possible the board is bad, in which case you would need to contact Amazon for an exchange.

On 21 Aug 2021, at 10:20 am, Daniel Rosen <dgros...@gmail.com> wrote:

So I connected the new SKR Mini E3 V2.0 to my cr10s and it reboots everytime I push the knob. Any suggestions?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "3D Printing Tips and Tricks" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/3d-printing-tips--tricks/_z2XPPGFCh4/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 3d-printing-tips--...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/ebb7d25e-6286-41ae-a284-245f91039a02n%40googlegroups.com.

<Untitled.mov>

[Daniel Rosen]

Done both already. I even run it without any connections and the problem still persists. It has to be a defective board I think. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:26 AM, Luke Hartfiel <lhar...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Luke Hartfiel]

Well then I guess exchanging it for a new board is an option.  

The quality control on these printer control boards is less than rigorous. Defective product slips through at a rate that would be unacceptable in other electronic markets (such as PC motherboards, for example). 

I’ve had BigTreeTech/BIQU stuff dial in weird ways from new before. If you can go through Amazon to get it replaced it is going to be faster and less painful then going straight to BTT.

On 21 Aug 2021, at 10:27 pm, Daniel Rosen <dgros...@gmail.com> wrote:

Done both already. I even run it without any connections and the problem still persists. It has to be a defective board I think. 

[Daniel Rosen]

I always by this things through Amazon. Return process is fast and get refund within 2 hrs. I decided to get the original creality v2.2 with the 2208s. I think that board is enough for me and I am more familiar with it now. You are completely right sayin that the current is set on the firmware. 

Thanks. 

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 21, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Luke Hartfiel <lhar...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Daniel Rosen]

The SKR Mini E3 was defective. I replaced with the original creality V2.2 with TMC2208 and works flawlessly now. Do I need to adjust the E stepper motor current here in the firmware?

Thanks 

[Luke Hartfiel]

As long as you have told the firmware in your configuration.h that you gave TMC2208, you can set the values here, but you can also just adjust the values on screen on the printer in the installed firmware (if you don’t get these values right, you can adjust without recompiling).

On 28 Aug 2021, at 4:46 am, Daniel Rosen <dgros...@gmail.com> wrote:

The SKR Mini E3 was defective. I replaced with the original creality V2.2 with TMC2208 and works flawlessly now. Do I need to adjust the E stepper motor current here in the firmware?