AnkerMake M5

[mroek]

The market for new Kickstarter 3D printers are still not dry, it seems. The AnkerMake M5 got off to a flying start, and got to $1 million in just one hour.

They promise a lot for a bedslinger, that's for sure. Lots of marketing fluff, but granted, the printer itself looks fairly polished. Not sure I like the design where the touch screen is mounted to the Z-axis, so it will constantly move upwards as the print progresses. I can see why they did it like that, but I would prefer a stationary touch screen.

They will give some other manufacturers a run for their money, I think.

[EricA]

Link for the lazy

It certainly has a lot of nice features, lets see if they work as well as advertised. Other Anker products are typically pretty solid, so there is hope, but I am skeptical about the speed claims. I was amused by their claim that it can print a Benchy in 2h10m as opposed to the typical(?) 9h19m. What printer needs 9 hours to print a Benchy? Even my craptastic Duplicator i3 can do it in about 2 hours.

Personally, I am not interested in buying one. I like to tinker, and this polished design doesn't leave much room for tinkering. It's also about the same price as a Prusa i3, which is a proven printer, even it it lacks some of the features Anker claims.

[mroek]

I'm also not interested in buying one, as I am just not a fan of bedslingers. I actually also have a craptastic Duplicator i3, by the way. Not using it much, though. It has some mods, like an all metal hotend and a different fan/shroud, but other than that it is mostly stock.

It will be interesting to see whether this M5 grows into a proper competitor for the other i3-style printers out there. I think it has the potential.

[Kurt at VRFX]

I have to Admit - am shocked there were NO Replies to this posting!

Andy - I was super curious to know what you thought about this printer. Seems a LOT of Hype in the KS campaign page - but, IF they CAN pull it off - it looks pretty damn Cool!

Yeah, after you posted this - I did indeed see it already hit $1Mill. Now its actually up to $6.3Million - and still 31 days before end of project deadline!

I spoke to my housemate about this KS campaign. Said it was a 3DP, didn't remember name, although it sounded like Ankle - and he indeed new of the campaign. I said - what - you didn't back it yet??? He is actually a prior co-worker from my work at Essentium, and he's a lead/manager Engineer. He's a super smart dude - and very mellow.

So, as I was looking over this KS - I saw them ranting about 5 TIMES the speed of standard FDM. Seems almost impossible. YEah - I know the machines at Essentium CAN do speeds like that - but, there are HUGE machines and Built for Speed! These guys claim this SpeedBoost technology is what makes it 5X faster. Doesn't seem miraculous to truly attain those speeds!

I like the AI camera thing. I was actually discussing with folks at Essentium about doing something similar - to stop Epic Fails (of which I had SEVERAL - and one Epic fail caused me to work with severalf folks to rip the HUGE Print head apart! Ugh...). I guess these guys beat me to the concept.

Although - it great to hear you can go Fast on the printer - but, to brag at going Fast but only doing 0.1mm layers - seems like a WASTE of SPEED! I say - go Fast, go Thick layers and go BIG - or GO HOME!!!

Needless to say - I'd LOVE to back the project and get one - but, for obvious reasons - I can NOT do that now! Too bad...

-K

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[LukeH]

Could you imagine printing something large with the bed flapping around to support speeds of 250mm/s? Even if it managed to finish, the print would look like garbage. There is a reason they don’t run bedslingers that fast. What are they thinking?

[Gary Tolley - Grogyan]

Printing 5x faster would presume that the controller is a raspberry pi or similar.

The other features such as cloud slicing and a printer for people who just want to print and do care for nodding like we do

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[Luke Hartfiel]

Most of the 32-bit boards these days could handle those speeds, but the mechanicals of the printer would struggle.

That’s why they are advertising printing at 0.1mm layer heights, as if it is some unusual, fabulous thing - with a 0.4mm nozzle at 250mm/s the flow rate of 12.5mm^3/s would be marginal for what looks like a clone V6. At 0.2mm layers, the flow rate of 25mm^3/s would be unachievable (even for a clone Volcano, which aren’t as good as the genuine ones).

You can relatively easily build a printer that prints at 250mm/s, assuming you are printing ABS, but they are CoreXY or Delta. It doesn’t work great with PLA since you would have to over heat the nozzle to achieve the flow rates required, and would get reliability issues due to heat creep (which affects PLA more than other filaments), and it is a bad idea to overheat PETG. ABS sheds heat more quickly, and so will turn back into a solid sooner.

If you want to reliably print PLA at speeds around 250mm/s then you are looking at a printer that is more than $1,000 just in parts, let alone all of the other costs. The final product would be close to $2,000 - $3,000 once it got to the end user for a machine with good quality control and after sales support. For a bedslinger? There is a reason Prusa doesn’t do it…

On 20 Apr 2022, at 8:01 am, Gary Tolley - Grogyan <gro...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Kurt at VRFX]

Actually - in regards to what you wrote - I believe they claimed they
have a Second processor in the system - which may be part of what helps
speed up printing!

Will admit - not sure what you meant by "nodding"...

-K

[TobyCWood]

I agree with Luke… 32 bit boards like the Duet are not the speed limiter. They can handle it. The limitations are on the extrusion speeds… but IMO there are also limitations within the momentum of the material itself which one can assume needs to be a much lower layer height then the usual .2mm.

[David Mason]

250mm/s is definitely possible and parts can look good at those speeds. Check out some of the quality speed prints done of ratrig, vorons hevorts etc. The key is crazy amounts of cooling! Something which you can just tell by looking at the anker make printer that is does NOT have. Also as you point out the kinematics for this printer are not going to work in their favour when trying to hit those speeds. I'll be honest I'm sure it can move that fast... But I do NOT believe the images of the parts printed at those speeds are honest. Even though they have scaled everything up so it's much larger to help get around that cooling issue I just can't see it not having bag ringing and overshoots. 

Only bed slinger I've seen hit those speeds well in the ratrig minion. But that's because it's bed is tiny, less mass is obviously better for speed. 

The steppers and super direct extruder do not look special in any way.  

The way they describe it all sounds a bit like they have actually just taken klipper and done their own front end UI for it... The terminology, functionality etc. Are all a bit too similar hah! (not that they can't do this. Open source technology and what not). 

The only bits that interest me are the built in camera and Ai claims. 

[Luke Hartfiel]

Agree - it is the mass of the bed that makes me question the claims of 250mm/s speeds. Also the extruder looks heavy (and as David said, under cooled).

I have also seen some good looking prints at similar speeds, but not on a bedslinger. At 250mm/s, we are talking about a 17-minute Benchy. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything that fast off a Mendel.

On 21 Apr 2022, at 7:16 pm, David Mason <slzer_...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

250mm/s is definitely possible and parts can look good at those speeds. Check out some of the quality speed prints done of ratrig, vorons hevorts etc. The key is crazy amounts of cooling! Something which you can just tell by looking at the anker make printer that is does NOT have. Also as you point out the kinematics for this printer are not going to work in their favour when trying to hit those speeds. I'll be honest I'm sure it can move that fast... But I do NOT believe the images of the parts printed at those speeds are honest. Even though they have scaled everything up so it's much larger to help get around that cooling issue I just can't see it not having bag ringing and overshoots. 

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[Joseph Larson]

I haven't been getting the notifications for this group lately, so sorry I haven't been around. 

But my take on this machine... well, first of all it doesn't matter. This thing is killing it left-right-and center. So, good for them. Whatever I have to say, next to this things success, is of no consequence.

But I don't get it. What does this enable people to do that an Ender 3 doesn't? I mean, yeah, it's *fast*, but why does that matter? It's not like when your 3D print is done that it will wash away if you don't use it right away. Faster just means you'll either have more junk around or (more likely) more machine downtime. And that's a problem for most people because they already have a ton of downtime. I've heard my non-3D printer friends who have heard about this say "but isn't it more accurate" and, no, it's not. IT's not measuring incoming filament, but so it's still subject to differences in filament diameter between manufacturers. This thing ain't printing 

However, there's a little something there. My non-3d printing friends have heard about this. They're advertising out the wazoo for this thing. They're convincing people that this is some great new thing when, really, it's just the next step. And, you know, that's fine. I'm all for more people getting into 3D printing. All for that.

But I am not excited about this machine. I don't need faster. I need to increase my capability to make. More size. More materials. More reliable (and the failure detection is probably the one thing good thing about this machine). Easier to use. Heck, why are we still using slicers? Why hasn't anyone put the computer in the printer that we can just throw a 3D model at don't need a slicer installed on our computer? The Full Spectrum Muse laser cutter works this way, and I have been waiting for the 3D printer that does this.

[Kurt at VRFX]

Hey there Joe,

Good to hear you respond on the forum again - I know its been a while for you!

So, you probably ALREADY Know about a good bit of what I am about to say...

And, yeah - I kinda disagree with you. For me - I WANT Faster - so that I can go BIGGER and it does NOT Take FOREVER. Especially as you know - I like to do BIG Things - and print things in parts to assemble. So, going faster, at least for ME - is a good thing! Of course, even though you go Fast - it still MUST Look Good!!!

Also, I don't like the idea of a slicer built into the printer - as its taking away Control! The control to orient the way you wish. The control to print something mostly hollow, with like 2 or 3 shells, so that you can print bigger and faster(and yes, assumption is the design does NOT need to have Infil - but, it HAS to be Designed that way!).

Anyway - there you have it...

-Kurt

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[Dan Newman]

> Also, I don't like the idea of a slicer built into the printer - as its
> taking away Control! The control to orient the way you wish. The control
> to print something mostly hollow, with like 2 or 3 shells, so that you
> can print bigger and faster(and yes, assumption is the design does NOT
> need to have Infil - but, it HAS to be Designed that way!).

Just because you put the slicer in the machine doesn't mean that you're
surrendering all control. You can still have an external mechanism to
visualize the models being sent, scale them, orient them, etc. AND also
set slicing parameters... all the slicing parameters you have available
if you're so inclined. You then send all that info to the printer as
input and let it do the rest with a slicer built in to it. For a lot of
folks/scenarios, this makes 3D printing easier by letting lay users send
the things lay users care about (scale model 2x and put it here) and
maybe some "advanced" details (20% fill, 3 solid outer layers, and
medium-fine print quality) and then letting the printer care about
things printers care about (what does medium-fine print quality mean;
should I enable the cooling fan, etc.). Couple this with using
non-homogeneous print farms.

Dan

P.S. Above isn't hypothetical either. Been there, done that.

[Luke Hartfiel]

I would suggest that faster is better, but not at the cost of quality. Nobody with a printer that prints reliably with good quality at 100mm/s runs it at 50mm/s just for a bit of a change, just like nobody drives at 10 miles and hour in a 60 zone, just because. I think though that Mendel printers are obsolete for a bunch of other reasons, which makes this printer questionable.

Also, obviously the end goal of 3D printer design would be a machine that produces multimaterial objects as near as instantly as possible. Imagine living in a world where you decide you need, say, a pair of scissors, and you select the model, and a couple of minutes later you have a metal and plastic pair of scissors ready to se, faster than you can today order them from Amazon (let alone the delivery time). Also obviously, we are decades or more away from that goal.

> On 22 Apr 2022, at 9:13 am, 'Dan Newman' via 3D Printing Tips and Tricks <3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> 

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[LukeH]

Here’s another kickstarter, this time from filament manufacturer Sunlu, also claiming 250mm/s for a Mendel:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sunluofficial/sunlu-new-generation-3d-printer-s9-plus?ref=discovery&term=Sunlu

Must be a standard speed now for this design :P

This one’s point of difference is a filament drier that is controllable from the printer, and a sensory to detect not just filament out, but a blockage (they claim it is a world first, but these sensors have been around for years now).

[Kurt at VRFX]

OK Dan - I hear you! That perspective - it indeed makes sense. Of
course, now its TIME to meet up for a Beer again!!!

-K