Upgrade 3D printer upgrade

[Daniel Gonzalez]

Hi,

I am currently looking to upgrade my 3D printer and wanted to get advice. I have been using a FlashForge Dreamer and am now interested in moving to a newer model that supports multi-filament printing.

Specifically, I am looking for a Creality printer that offers multi-color capabilities during a single print. Since I am accustomed to using a dual extruder, I would prefer a similar setup to continue printing with multiple colors.

If you have any recommendations, I would appreciate hearing them.

Thanks,
Daniel Gonzalez

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

In my opinion…

Dual extrusion is quite obsolete and I would not start with that as a baseline for your requirements.

If your reqs include regular use of multi materials then I’d add that an auto loader is not what you want either.

Regular multi materials use, as in more than 10% of what you print is best done with a toolchanger. Otherwise this next purchase you make will be obsolete within a year. Only way to go is toolchanger. Ya get what ya pay for.

[Ray Price]

in my opinion...

Let's start with your use case.  Are you a hobbyist who is just looking to expand into multi-color printing; or a small business that runs small to medium size jobs that could benefit from multi-color / multi-material printing; or looking to grow / establish a print farm with 10 - 20 - 30 printers running 24/7 printing 80 - 90% multi material / color jobs of hundreds of keychain / trinkets?

I like to putter around in the garage with various woodworking projects, but that doesn't mean I need a vacuum table with a $5000 table saw with an autostop blade in order to be able to function, even though that is the "best" gear available.

I recently jumped to a Bambu H2D, with that antiquated dual nozzle system that is on it's last legs, much like the bed slingers that curiously still sell hundreds of thousands, dare I say millions, of units every year.

I run a small board game insert shop with inserts of my own designs and this single machine is the best upgrade I've every made to my shop.  The dual nozzle system works great and while, yes, it takes time to purge and swap new filament, having one nozzle to run the majority color and a second nozzle to run the "additional" colors works extremely well.  I haven't even got to multi-material printing yet, but I'm sure that will work well as well.  Additionally, I can  hook a second AMS to the second nozzle and have access to 8 materials / colors at once.  

I'm quite happy to work with the capabilities and constraints (everything has constraints) of my "outdated in a year" Bambu system, and easily expect to get quite a bit of joy and capability for 2, 3, 4, maybe even 5 years!

Ya get what ya pay for...

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[Kurt]

Ray - my coworker here was just looking at the H2D combo online. And, I told him - YEAH - that is EXACTLY the machine I want. So, I am indeed Jealous of you having an H2D - exactly the machine I want. Andy makes good points - but, still - I Darn Well want an H2D!!!

-K

[Daniel Gonzalez]

Hi Ray,

That is a very good point about the use case. To clarify, I am primarily a hobbyist, but I also use 3D printing in my work as a teacher.

I frequently print trinkets and various functional parts for my students' projects, such as small RC cars and Lego Technic components. This is a way for me to learn new skills and provide them with educational materials they can earn.

I am currently looking at models from both Creality and Bambu Lab. I would appreciate any advice you can offer regarding the long-term pros and cons of machines from either brand, given my specific use case of hobbyist printing combined with educational part creation.

Thanks,
Danny Gonzalez

Thanks,

Danny Gonzalez

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[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!!]

Daniel - my suggestion...

If you can Hold off a Tad on your purchase - And, since you're essentially a hobbyist - you can get an x1 Carbon knockoff - with an AMS - for MUCH Cheaper - one Elegoo releases there own Carbon Model Two - which will then have an AMS!

-K

[Mark Napier]

FWIW, We have a Bambu X1C at work and that is a fine machine.

You would have to print an awful lot to justify the cost of a tool-changer over an AMS.

Mark Napier

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/7b6470e5-efd3-4b5f-9e1b-e6b77dbd1bd4n%40googlegroups.com.

[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!!]

OH Snap - it's Mr. Napier! How's it going Sir?!??

There is indeed truth to what you say. Andy kinda covered that in a recent podcast episode. The trade-off of costs of Toolchanger vs. an Autoloader like the Bambu. If you print A LOT - and a LOT of Multicolor parts - then Toolchanger is going to be a better bet over the long run. 

I still, however - believe that the H2D - with 2 Nozzles - is a GREAT Potential tradeoff to the Toolchangers. Since it has 2 nozzles - so, in the occasions where you want to print opposing materials like PETG vs PLA - OR - like PLA vs. TPU - then the H2D's 2nd nozzle is a Great option. Which is why I would Love to have an H2D - besides the big build volume and the heated chamber - which is great for ABS. 

Enough said...

-K

[Mark Napier]

Hey Kurt!

I'm growing to resemble a grumpy old guy a little more each day,  You?

You're probably right.  For muti-materials not having to really purge the nozzle is huge win.

I talked our boss into getting the Bambu for a coworker who uses it for little resin molding jobs.  It prints ABS just fine and I use the cheap stuff.  I'm sure a real heated chamber would be even better.  Last fall the X1C could be had for a very good price.  We missed that but since it was for work the price didn't matter as much.

But $3K would have been more yakking than $1100 which was a simple slam-dunk.

Cheers,

Mark Napier

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[Ray Price]

Daniel,

For me, 

My shop was running on:

1 Creality  CR10s PRO V2 (10,000 h)

1 Creality CR6SE (4,000 h)

1 Elegoo Neptune 3 Plus (6,000 h) 

All of them have been absolute workhorses and my upgrades have been primarily quality of life type things -- community firmware on the Creality's, silicone risers across the board; MicroSwiss hotends for the Creality's, and WhamBam PEX plates across the board.  I've replaced part cooling fans here and there on the Creality's as well as the CR6 motherboard and the heated bed on the CR10s PRO.  Aside from that, there's been very little maintenance required.  

The Bambu has been head and shoulders above all of these printers, and I primarily think that is due to obvious technology advancements, but also the rich development of the Bambu ecosystem.  The monitoring built into the machine is amazing, and as I had mentioned elsewhere, their online documentation is very robust, clear, and extremely helpful.  

I haven't spent much time looking at the Creality CoreXY printers.  When I started into 3D printing 6 - 7 years ago, CoreXY was not nearly as mainstream nor as developed as it is today.  

I would think that a smaller Bambu coreXY printer (X or P) with an AMS would give you a good deal of flexibility and growth.  When I was looking to get a Bambu I needed the buildplate XY of the H series and was trying to decide between the H2S and the H2D.  Honestly, Bambu's black friday sale pushed me to the H2D and I'm glad I made that jump.

In today's world, I think someone can get a great deal of value out of the CoreXY and AMS combo.  Two Nozzles and a robust ecosystem are icing on the cake.

There's always a concern about vendor lock, and Bambu has been following in the footsteps of Apple and Tesla to some extent.  I initially shied away from Bambu in the early days due to the logical criticism that if they go under, you have a machine that can't be fixed.  I think now with their growth, and development, the chances of them ceasing to exist diminishes with each passing day.  It is hard to deny that their ecosystem is well developed and fairly strong.

Ray

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[Mark Napier]

At work we had qualms about how to work with our IT to connect it on the company network given the security concerns (over-blown?).  The X1C is Wifi only.  We decided to forgo some of the features and just use OrcaSlicer and SD cards.  We have never let it "phone home".  Someone else will have to say whether or not that is possible now or not with new printers from Bambu.

Mark Napier

[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!!]

YEah Mark - I hear ya about the pricing stuff. Everyone loves a Slam Dunk - although I don't watch Pro Basketball...

And, will admit - I'm VERY Much like you - a Grumpy Old Man - but, maybe a tad less Grumpy than you!!!

Gotta say - it's AWESOME To see your Fast reply here!

We gotta meet up at MRRF again one day - or something similar...

-K

[Bryan Eckert]

FYI - the X1C is gone (sold out) and won't be restocked. Replacement is the P2S, which is $799 for the AMS combo. Same machine with a few QOL touches for less money.

As for networking the X1E has Ethernet, and H2D Pro I believe. 

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[Bryan Eckert]

Also I will say at work we faced the same issue with the H2D's - but we have a guest access wifi. The solution was to bind the printers to guest wifi, and then just get a dedicated laptop for Bambu Studio and Fusion 360.

[Mark Napier]

I printed out the big ABS parts for my son's cosplay sword on the Bambu that kept failing on my machine.  One day we'll finish it and post pics.

I made a nice mount for a Telrad along with some other big parts out of ABS (won't warp in a hot car) for the telescope and the Bambu works great for that.  It is a fine machine.

Mark Napier

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[Mark Napier]

Hey Bryan,

That is a smart solution.

Mark Napier

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[Daniel Gonzalez]

Hi,

Thank you all for the amazing advice and considerations.

To provide a bit more context on my situation, I am a teacher, and I print frequently for my students (including those in special education) to use as earned prizes and educational materials. I'm currently funding these prints myself, but the school administration is interested in purchasing a printer down the road. It’s been a joy to see them see what I print and help some of them that are interested in cad who are middle schoolers.

In the meantime, my personal budget for a new machine is currently around $300. I am hoping to find a reliable printer at this price point that offers good value now and has the potential for upgrades later on, particularly concerning multi-filament printing.

Do you have any recommendations for a printer that fits this $300 budget while still offering a pathway for future upgrades?

Thanks,

Daniel Gonzalez

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[Bryan Eckert]

Daniel The bambulab A1 is currently on sale for $279.  The AMS combo version for multicolor is 379. I got my daughter one last year for Christmas, it’s an excellent printer.

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