iFactory One Build

[TobyCWood]

Got the kit yesterday and started building today. Got to step 4 and all forward progress stopped! The metal wheels on the X axis carriages are not adjusted right for the X axis rails and they do not bother to explain how to adjust them.

This was why I asked Steffen about if they were going to use Dozuki!

[TobyCWood]

OK...

Change number 1 to the assembly...

The Y axis carriages have to be put onto the rails forcefully THEN attached to the X Axis crossbar with the extruder carriage. Doing it per the instructions does not work.

[TobyCWood]

Nah... That’s no good. The wheels have to be adjusted.

DOH! The bolts are frozen! Some twit over torqued them! 

So far it ain’t lookin good. There’s soooo much I see that is not acceptable. I’d say this machine should not have shipped as it is currently. These guys are going to get some interesting emails from me!

Kickstarter@@@@#@%$^%!

[vr...@optonline.net]

Sad, sad - very sad...

Bummer...

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[TobyCWood]

Easy fix.

[Mark Napier]

Better you than me!

:)

Good luck!

[TobyCWood]

Got most of it together. All thats left of the HW is to mount the belt motors.

Taking me WAYYY more than four hours! About 75% of this machine is held together with *&@%^&@* T-nuts. Each T-nut has a 50/50 chance of not rotating 90deg as needed when tightening. As such way too many screws take a TON of time to get to work correctly!!!
Then add to that the typical bad docs of a KS and the VERY hard to figure out orientation of the mount of many of the parts (I got soooo many wrong!) and it's not a kit I'd recommend. Not even to seasoned printer builder.

Now, one could argue... But you got the prerelease version and there will be upgrades. Yes, that would be correct... BUT... there's no way that iFactory will be able to get away from using the T-Nuts. The entire design is based on a BONEHEADED assumption that the use of T-Nuts for structural attachment is a good way to go.

Note IIRC... none of my Creality machines used T-nuts anywhere yet they are almost all extrusions. Why would Creality avoid T-Nuts??? Obviously because they are REALLY bad solution!!! Not just for structural rigidity but also for manufacturing the machine!

That said The printer, once built, is impressive.

On Thursday, December 24, 2020 at 1:50:50 PM UTC-8 TobyCWood wrote:

[markni...@gmail.com]

Andy,

Nice job, looks great! I can hardly wait to get mine.

[Dushyant Ahuja]

Looks cool - but shouldn't the belts be parallel to the axes? 

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Dushyant Ahuja

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[TobyCWood]

It’s an Infinate Z 3D Printer. The gantry is at a 45 degree angle and layers print diagonally.

So they left out the Extruder stepper cable!

I powered it up. Bad stepper X and Y cables!!!

This has been the build from hell.
Seems its only me. Everyone else’s builds are going fine.

[Dushyant Ahuja]

Understood, but the 45 degree gantry looks like a coreXY - so shouldn't the highlighted belt sections be parallel to the "Y" axis rails?

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Dushyant Ahuja

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[TobyCWood]

Yes it is CoreXY and the belts all run parallel to the plane of the layers

[TobyCWood]

So one of the steppers is not working right. :-(

I had to take the bed off and check cable connections. Here's what the controller board looks like.

Note the X stepper actually goes through that ribbon cable connector which goes to a break out box on the gantry.

It also means I cant bypass the cable with my own. The stepper cables on the right are Z1 and Z2 and Y.

On Thursday, December 24, 2020 at 1:50:50 PM UTC-8 TobyCWood wrote:

[markni...@gmail.com]

Hi Andy,

I noticed that the iFactory uses a Tronxy CXY STI32 based motherboard: https://www.tronxy.com/mainboard/tronxy-mainboard.html

I've had people wonder why I'm so interested in Marlin 2.0 on 32 bit STI motherboards.

This is a classic example of how many to most new printers sold are using Marlin 2.0 on 32 bit boards.

At some point we're going to need to be fluent in Marlin 2.0 (or newer) and how to compile firmware using Microsoft Visual Studio Code as an editor.

I find it more difficult than the Arduino IDE used to compile 8 bit Marling in the past.

But I'll admit it's difficult to teach old dogs new tricks, and younger users may find it easier than I did.

[TobyCWood]

As in "classic example" I'm assuming you mean a customization which is specific to the printer, as in the shunting of the X stepper through the wide ribbon cable. Which BTW gets in the way of the owner being able to bypass the ribbon cable. IMO it's not a good design. There's more; there's no way for the end user to operate this machine with Marlin. The entire UI is via the RPi both on the TS and via webUI. The result... error messages are not all working correctly and the RPi UI crashes. Yah, it's an early release machine and it still very much a WIP.

Those who got the machine already will be getting upgrades soon including a change to the current to the motors, additional strengtheners at the top junctions as well as a shortened HBP to provide a cool down area for the kind of parts Bill Knight used in the vid.

In the meantime troubleshooting what is wrong with the steppers is a major PITA and I need a rest from this build.

Based on the CR6 I would now bet that the CR30 will be WAY more polished when it ships in May. I gotta say though that the steel wheels on the convex rails are really awesome and are a  serious differentiator and a print quality enhancement that v-rollers will never match. 

The belt though may be a bit too aggressive a surface.

[TobyCWood]

So both motors checked out OK. The problem is either in the ribbon cable or the breakout board. Sigh...

The idea of the breakout board, in a kit, is NOT a good design. Real bad. It couples functional components and makes it way harder to fix issues all for the sake of having a neater breakout box? NAH! So if there's problems with 1 in 50 that will be enough to hurt their support costs.

On Thursday, December 24, 2020 at 1:50:50 PM UTC-8 TobyCWood wrote:

[markni...@gmail.com]

Andy,

Looking at your board photo, it looks like the stepper driver chips have the Trinamic triangle with circles at the vertices. Can you read the TMC model number on the chips?

I was disappointed when the specs for the Tronxy motherboard said it featured Allegro drivers, but judging from your picture this does not seem to be the case.

What type of cooling are they using over the board, since you usually see heat sinks on the tops of the motor driver chips, even though much of the cooling is through a large copper trace under the chip.

[LukeH]

I once used one of those Tronxy boards in a project. The quality of the board was terrible - the first one died within a week, and the second one lasted two weeks. I understand that Tronxy have also largely moved across to that closed source Chitu firmware (Similar to what is in the Anycubic Predator, and most of the Tronxy X5S variants). Is that what the iFactory is running?

[markni...@gmail.com]

The Tronxy board would not have been my first choice either, but you get what iFactory ships out.

I hope they are not using closed source firmware.

Although I am not one of them, there are folks right here in this group capable of debugging the interaction between the motherboard firmware and the raspberry pi.

If iFactory wants to Turbo Charge development, they are going to need to open up and let the community help them with debugging and development, a la Makerbot back in the Cupcake through Thingo-Matic days.

Andy, it wouldn't hurt to check the reference voltage of the stepper drivers, since the adjustment screws are just setting there begging you to. I don't know what the recommended voltage is, but it should be easily searchable if you know which drivers you have.

[LukeH]

I second that - unless iFactory has taken the time to flash each board and set the reference voltages, they will just be in whatever position they ended up in from the assembly line. Tronxy don’t take the time to manually set anything on their boards in the factory.

[TobyCWood]

I got the X stepper working. I replaced one cable... but... I got to talk to these guys in realtime and when I asked them which connector goes to which stepper from the breakout box to the steppers... since they were all UNLABELED!!!... they told me the wrong connectors and I had to figure it out for myself which wasted another hour or so.

By virtue of their shunting the X and E steppers through their ribbon cable to this useless break out box and NOT making their FW Source downloadable from their website it is by definition closed source and now we come to the even bigger issue...

In their manual for setup they instruct the user to set the home offsets. It's just like what we have with the Replicators, the limit switches are on the other side and they set the start X to a position which allows for a prime line and they put Y right at the spot above the belt. You jog on to a paper card to get the right height for Y then Get the location via M114, then set the offset with M206 to the reverse of the Y location you got from the M114. The only problem is when I do that and I verify that it got the position to zero with the correct offset it's ALWAYS off by a lot. I can't get it to the zero position. The FW is fubar!! and... since it's closed source it's gonna stay fubar!! I guess I'll be talking with them again!

[TobyCWood]

For fun I went and looked at all the other support links on the iFactory site. I looked at the "Semi-assembled" assembly manual.

LOL!

All they preassembled was the Belt assembly!!!  The user still has to do all the hard parts! Total waste of money if you ordered it semi-assembled!

[markni...@gmail.com]

Since I'm always a little slow on the uptake, I just noticed Joel (Printing Nerd) and Bill Steele's Youtube Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CILX5Us1GaE&t=4306s

Bill Steele is a very, very smart guy, and has done much work on belt printers, in addition to his current 3d Chameleon project.

If iFactory will listen to Bill Steele, all will be well.

Did I mention Bill is a smart guy?

[TobyCWood]

They listen to a point. For example they added triangle gussets to two corners and their sending out two more. They are also replacing the HBP for a shorter one since they were clueless about the need for a cool down zone... although IMO theres really no need for a HBP at all given how rough the belt is... and thats another issue. The surface of the prints are badly marred by the roughness of the belt. Real bad.

[TobyCWood]

Bill's what ya get with an experienced Engineer. Which is what most of these guys ain't! Most of the crowd funded 3DP campaigns are done by inexperienced lay people who are just hacking away. Makerbot was like that, as was Lulzbot and Printrbot. For sure thats the impression I'm now getting for the tech guy at iFactory.

I have figured out why they went with the convex rails press fit into the aluminum extrusions with the steel wheels Vs concave rails and industrial sliders. The later would be almost impossible to adjust while the former is actually easy to adjust and still maintain tight tolerances. Way superior to the V-rollers Creality is using. Too bad the rest of the machine's tradeoffs are not as well thought out!

On Friday, January 1, 2021 at 10:49:05 AM UTC-8 markni...@gmail.com wrote:

[TobyCWood]

Thanks to Steve Blum for showing me how to set the start point to zero.

The iFactory is finally printing! It did it's cal cube OK. Next I'll do a random thing of the Tverse.

[TobyCWood]

Prints OK. I note a slight warp but not from lifting off the bed, rather from going from the roller to the bed. I probably need to adjust more. The print is a very cheap PETG.

So it was a B***H to build but it's a good machine, assuming it's durable. 

This machine is about 95% parts from TronXYZ and as such you can bet that TronXYZ will do it for themselves and sell this thing at probably the same price they sell the X5SA Pro for on Amazon(<$400) and if they do it a lot of others there will too just like the i3 IDEX derivative ala JGMaker. Note that the X5SA Pro uses the convex rails and steel wheels so the iFactory boys really did not invent anything here. So if you really want a machine just like this and $1000 is too steep for you, just be patient.

[Kurt at VR-FX]

Andy, I have to say, I love the picture! It's truly awesome! Although I have a little bit of a critique. Because whatever you are printing, why is it printing it exactly side to side and not leaving a little space between the objects???

That being said, I love the fact that you have actually printed 6 units of some design. It's really damn cool! Also when I noticed, and it's obvious because I understand the machine design, but it is rather quite intriguing to look at the object and see that the layer lines are not horizontal but diagonal! I mean, here in the Forum, of course we know why this is the case, but still, it looks pretty darn cool!!!

So, Andy, while reading some of this posting earlier today and the responses from Mark, I began to deeply Ponder the idea of this printer, not only because you can print multiple objects over and over and over like a factory, and therefore the name of the printer, but it is in regard to how it actually prints. I realized, that in fact, there is going to be a major problem with this kind of printer in regards to a regular type of printer. Can you potentially guess what the hell it is that I am talking about???

All of this is in regards to thinking deeply about how a 3D printer works, but also how you design for 3D printing. For instance, I have a design that will print on a regular 3D printer without any support required. And it is exactly that design that I started to contemplate that if I printed it on this printer, it cannot be printed properly! It's simply cannot! I mean if it could, Andy, I would send you a couple rolls of filament and ask that you just print about 100 of the designs, okay maybe 50, or maybe 40...

Of course, you know that I go out of my way to design in the world of 3D specifically for 3D printing and abiding by the rules that require angles such that you do not need a support material. So my design in question, is my TetraHedra Building Block design. I know my design can easily print on any standard 3D printer without the requirements for support. I mean, it has angles and they are a little more extreme than required for avoiding support. But, as I was contemplating this printer that you are working on, I was contemplating the design in my head and how I could Orient the part and still have it print on this 3D printer, and I don't believe it's actually possible to do. I mean seriously, it can't be done!!! Enough said...

-K-

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[LukeH]

Having spent some time on the TronXY Facebook forum (where many desperate people go to try to get some advice on getting these truely terrible printers working to an acceptable standard), I recall that somebody a couple of years ago published an open source design for a belt printer, which was a conversion of a TronXY X5S (the precursor to the X5SA - the same basic design, but with an 8-bit controller, wheels in v-slot rather than linear rails, and no bed level sensor).

Here it is here: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2996234

Could it be total coincidence that this iFactory printer uses TronXY parts off an X5S?

[markni...@gmail.com]

Good catch Luke, I just downloaded that design from Tverse, and will take a look at it today.

Kurt, you are asking exactly the right kind of question.

Are these printers only useful for specific use cases?

Or are they more generally useful for for varied printing demands?

If you have a specific use case that these printers work for, than they are obviously worth the money for those specific users.

If they are not good general use printers, folks need to know that before they invest.

[Todd Chretien]

It's not a coincidence at all.  That is the printer that they developed.  The Kickstarter was done to develop and distribute that thingiverse printer.  It is linked in the Kickstarter.

As far as if something can be printed using these printers, I would download the Blackbelt version of Cura and slice the model and look for any layers that start off printing in mid air, those areas will require supports (at least to start).  That's what I did with the prints I normally make before I backed this printer.  Print orientation can make a big difference.  So far I've printed a couple of batch prints for items we sell, some Railcore components, and a dust shoe prototype for my CNC Router.  PLA and PETG materials.  Both are printing great.  

I've replaced the acrylic X and Y stepper mounts with Aluminum ones and that's the only upgrade so far.  I have some extra Duet controllers lying around, so I may do some experimenting with that next.

On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 4:52:13 AM UTC-6 LukeH wrote:

[markni...@gmail.com]

Yep,  hubinio , is Martin Huber   

[Kurt at VR-FX]

Todd - I'm curious. Can one have Multiple different versions of Cura residing on the same machine? I have Cura now - and I use it for my WanHao D6. I got the install from JetGuy (as well as the 3DP) - and he told me Never to upgrade it - which Cura says an upgrade is available - since its a WanHao custom version of Cura - and an upgrade would supposedly F-up the profile (I'm assuming that's the reason not to upgrade). Therefore, this is why I am hesitant to install a Blackbelt version of Cura - since I don't want it to FUBAR my D6 version.

But, if they BOTH Can reside on my system - I would be VERY Interested in trying this BlackBelt version, and trying to slice some of my models as a test. Also, if so - would you have a direct link to that BB version?

-K-

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[Todd Chretien]

I never overwrite my old versions of Cura.  Right now I have several versions of regular Cura, Cura Blackbelt, and iFactory's version of Cura.  They all run independently.  Here is the link to Blackbelt Cura download page:

Download Area - BlackBelt (blackbelt-3d.com) 

Here's the iFactory download page:

Support | iFactory3D 

[LukeH]

Hmmm - the TronXY is a diabolically bad printer, with lots of design compromises rolled in to it to make it cheaper at the expense of print-ability, usability and maintainability. They aren’t in any way suited for beginners and require extensive modifications to work (the reason the X5SA has linear rails is because the carriage design is flawed, and those that bought the original X5S often ended up adding in rails to get a decent print - TronXY just lifted the design from the community and started selling it as an “upgraded’ model).

If the iFactory is a derivative design , hopefully not too many of the original design flaws have made it into this design. Acrylic stepper mounts you say? That is definitely a TronXY thing, and usually the first thing people replace...

[Kurt at VR-FX]

Cool - thanks SO MUCH! I will try them out - and I may report back here on my findings...

-K-

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[TobyCWood]

Plenty of design flaws to go around. I made a poor choice.

[markni...@gmail.com]

Andy, if you did, I did as well.

I didn't realize that Kurt, the White Knight designer was working with Creality.

Arguably, the only person that knows more about belt printers than him, is Bill Steele. I hope iFactory is aware of this.

Looks like you and I may be smarts-asses, and Joe Larson is just smart.

[TobyCWood]

So this machine is FAR from ready for prime time. Yes, the post on Tverse is from one of the iFactory guys too bad I did not see it before I backed this thing.

So the latest...

The object pic I posted earlier is a testers bottle holder:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4664548

Something I've been meaning to print.

The result was warped. In reverse! Not like a bed lift warp. The spot that the belt is at where the hot end prints at is in between the roller and the heated bed. NOT the position I would have chosen!! As such if there's a change in height it;'s reflected in the print. Even a very tiny change in height. So I put a straight edge on the rollers and matched the HBP to the straight edge on both sides and now I get a gap beneath the belt and the bed because the belt is actually not tight enough! So I am printing modified saddles for the bar that does the final tightening (the thing bill Steele mentioned in the vid). 

Bottomline: it's made with cheap POS Chinese craptasic  parts. Can I polish this turd? Not too sure. Bugs in the FW, problems I'm hearing about in the controller board, bad design choices left and right. Martin Huber has a LOT to answer for!

I'd bet the PrintMill will be as polished as the CR6 SE was. 

Goliath is about to squash this David!

[TobyCWood]

I wouldn't go that far!

[TobyCWood]

I'm hearing the CR30 is a nightmare to get printing at all!

At least this thing WILL print.

The good news though is that it's now pretty assured that a belt/infinate Z machine CAN be produced and for under $1000. Probably under $500. Also, I am getting the impression that this design has a heckalot more going for it as far as meeting use cases then I had originally thought. There's things about it that are actually way better than the conventional approaches. Although leading edges do have to be supported.

[Kurt at VR-FX]

What? Another guy involved in 3DP's & Named Kurt??? Wow - maybe he's my Doppleganger!

So - here's the deal. I sliced my Tetra. Seems I miscalced in my head how it would slice! As such, I present to you - a test of slicing my Tetra in BB Cura. File attached...

Kurt - Not a Knight!

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[Todd Chretien]

So is your printer printing off the bed (between the roller and the bed)?  My bed is above the rollers but the hotend nozzle is on the bed.

[Todd Chretien]

I couldn't get your video to run, but yes, the print orientation makes a bid difference.  I'm printing some of the parts I would print on a traditional printer now with no infill because I don't need it anymore.  There really isn't a top layer to support anymore.

[Kurt at VR-FX]

OMG - I had NOT Thought about Infill - and no longer needing it. Now THERE is an Amazing use case for this type of 3DP!

OK - I did an edit to the Video - and did an output in another format. Let me know if you can view this one...

-K-

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[Todd Chretien]

That should print pretty well.  This is one of the first parts I printed on the iFactory.  Printed with no infill and rotated 45 degrees so the layer pattern is consistent across the entire part.  Printed using Zyltech PLA.

[LukeH]

The problem is that when you squeeze the price down from, say, $1,000 to $500, then you are just squeezing component quality and reliability.

I’ve had printers from Chinese manufacturers that have worked exactly as advertised right out of the box. It is possible to get quality components out of China, as long as you are willing to pay for them. While these printers weren’t feature-packed, they at least used medium quality parts, and passed through some minimal QA process as they left the factory (not necessarily tested, but at least visually inspected for obvious defects).

I’ve had other printers (and the TronXY X5S was the worst of them), where it is literally a box of the lowest possible quality components, some defective right out of the box, some missing. It seems like each part of the design is examined for ways to make it cheaper without regard to performance. For those with the knowledge and skills (and inclination), as long as the basic design is sound, a cheap printer like that could be purchased as a build base, in the knowledge that you would be spending probably double the purchase price to get something that is usable. I can imagine that a $500 belt printer would be at the very low end of quality and serviceability (the belt itself would be at least 25% of the purchase price), at least until somebody comes up with a fully realised design that allows for low-cost manufacture.

[Kurt at VR-FX]

Yeah - your printed part looks pretty SWEET!!!

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[Todd Chretien]

I think with some upgrades this can be a really solid machine.  I wished they used a Duet board (genuine or clone).  Replace the composite parts with aluminum (stepper mounts and bed carriages).  Shift the bed back a bit to make the bed adjustment a little easier.  My nozzle sits fine, but  I know a few people are having trouble with that.  Add a cool down zone to the heat bed.

After dealing with the printer for the past few weeks, I think they should focus on those upgrades.  I'm not sure if adding gussets or stiffening plates to the frame is all that necessary.  My printer is pretty rigid.

I'm working on working on most of these on my own and waiting to see what they come up with.

[markni...@gmail.com]

Todd, I haven’t received my machine yet, so I’m just making guesses based on pictures people post, and looking at the assembly manual.

It looks to me like you’ve already addressed one of the frame stiffening goals by the way you’ve added your aluminum X and Y motor plates.

If I’m viewing this correctly you have already provided a screw on the vertical extrusion and one on the horizontal extrusion by the way you’ve spaced out the 2 screws securing the X and Y motor mounts to the frame.

It looks in the manual like the acrylic motor mounts have both screws fastened to the horizontal extrusion.

Let’s face facts; laser cut acrylic motor mounts are a weak, lame-ass solution that should never be used. You essentially have 3 screws fastening your motor mounts to the top extrusion, whereas the factory mounts have one, because the 2 screws through the acrylic motor mount to the top horizontal have no strength.

There are premium quality 32 bit Chinese main boards; the Tronxy board just isn’t one.

The Big Tree Tech GTR V1.0 https://www.amazon.com/BIGTREETECH-Direct-Control-Printer-TMC2208/dp/B083TW2RHT and Big Tree Tech Pro V1.2 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TRC8D5L/ref=dp_prsubs_1 are 2 of them.

Premium boards have ARM Cortex M4, microcontrollers, higher quality connectors, thicker copper traces, better build quality, etc.

Everyone would prefer a Duet or clone. We aren’t going to get it in this price range. But that doesn’t mean iFactory has to use the cheapest POS mainboard they can source.

[LukeH]

The biggest issue with the TronXY 32-bit boards (actually made by Chitu, who also make the firmware, and a slicer for resin printers) is the firmware, which is feature-poor, clunky to use, and just isn’t as good at doing math as the open source firmwares. That said, I understand that the TronXY user community has worked to make it possible to run Marlin 2 on the TronXY boards now, although I don’t know what they use in the iFactory.

Toby, is it running Marlin or Chitu?

[TobyCWood]

Don't know. How to check?

[TobyCWood]

It's hard to see. But it looks like the tip of the hotend is right on the very edge of the bed (which is under the belt). 

So I (and others) made an assumption... that in the start gcode the "priming line" was way too close and as such we added some space between it and the first line of the object. Pretty bad assumption.

Then when I tried to print that critical first line of the object it  would never stick to the belt. Nothin I did worked to get it to stick until I raised the bed a bit. Then that first line stuck to the belt... but... it then put the plane of the bed over the top of the rollers which then created a downward warp in the Z axis of long objects.

So after thinking about it I realized that the "printing line" is also an "anchor" line since the slope of the nozzle matches the plane of the belt. The nozzle itself is not pointing straight down into the belt. Instead it's printing almost perpendicular to the belt and as such it needs a thick extrusion like this anchor line to get the initial extrusions into the belt. That first line touches the Anchor line and it stays put while additional lines are added which then gives the printed object a good hold onto the part. I put a straight edge on the rollers and the bed and adjusted so they matched in height making the plane of the belt straight and supported by the bed. I just started printing an I-Beam with this and the 1st line stuck correctly. Lets see if the warp is gone...

[markni...@gmail.com]

It seems to me in the 3D Printer Nerd video that I linked earlier, Bill Steele stated that the board ran the Chitu Marlin variant.

So, cool Chitu utilized open source Marlin code, brought it closed source, and didn't credit Marlin or release the source code, as required.

The light at the end of the tunnel seemed to be that Bill had no trouble recognizing or modifying the firmware.

Bill may not want to get himself in trouble with iFactory, but someone will Jailbreak the Chitu code at some point.

[Todd Chretien]

The Aluminum pieces I made mount exactly like the acrylic ones do.  The only exception is my mounts have the adjustment on the stepper, not the mount.  You mount the plate to the 2020 extrusion and loosen the stepper bolt and move the stepper to tighten the belts (like on the Railcore Printers).  It looks like they started with the TronXY mounts, then just made them thicker.  That made the bolts too short and made it hard to turn the T-Nuts.  

That whole corner connection is bolted up plenty enough for me the way it came.  I wouldn't stand on it, but then again, it's a 3D printer, not a ladder.  The belts need to be tight, but not that super tight!  In fact, I cracked my stepper mount after I had my printer printing great and decided I needed to tighten the belts because I thought they didn't look tight enough.  I should have just been happy with the great prints I was getting.

I have Duets (a mix of genuine and clones) running on 4 printers and a CNC Router, so that's my reasoning for wanting a Duet based controller.  I'm just more comfortable with the interface, so I'm going to test that out.  I think all the magic happens in the slicer, so I'm just going to tie into the steppers and heaters and run a side by side comparison (when I get some time).  So far, it is printing fine, I just need them to unlock their Octoprint for plugins so I can work with the continuous print plugin.

[TobyCWood]

Yup that did it. The warp is gone and it's printing real nice. I'll post a pic when done.

[LukeH]

If the the stepper mounts are like the TronXY X5S variants, then just remanufacturing the acrylic mounts in aluminium is sub-optimal, since it would still be the same bad design, just in a different material. That said, if it is based on the X5S, then there are plenty of community-designed alternatives on Thingiverse, which have a stepper mount with a simple screw belt tensioner built in, so you can tension the belts as they stretch and go slack over time (and they will), without having to loosen bolts and remount the steppers. 

[LukeH]

I believe that the problem with the Chitu firmware is that it is based on Marlin version 1 (1.1.0, or at least that was the last time they ever met their licence requirements and published their source on GitHub), and so doesn’t benefit from any of the kinematic improvements of Marlin 2.0. The amount of effort it must have taken to get Marlin version 1 to run on a 32-bit processor as encrypted closed source, only allowing it to be configured via custom GCodes would have been both substantial and pointless.

Marlin 2 has been able to run on Chitu/TronXY control boards since the middle of this year. It will only be a matter of time before there is a set of configuration files available for the iFactory (or people could just roll their own).

[TobyCWood]

Yeah I know of a couple of people who are looking at making a version of Marlin 2.0 for the iFactory One  right now. 

I’ve only done a small number of prints so far but the quality I am getting is real good and IMO that is because of the steel wheels and convex rails. They are way superior to the V-rollers as I expected. However, unlike like old school rods ala MB and Prusa, anything on these rails will make the gantry stop instantly. Gotta keep them clean!

For sure both of these machines are going to have tons of mods and upgrades. It’ll be fun on both machines and yeah I am now in the fun zone with my iFactory.

[TobyCWood]

Here’s a tip...

The next time I have to remove the belt I’ll be sure to completely remove one screw from the PS. The one that’s under the 2040 extrusion for the belt. Get rid of it and then the PS and controller can be removed without removing the belt/bed.

[TobyCWood]

So the warp in Z is gone. Next is a warp in X at the start of the print. There's so much about how this thing works that is different that just about all the lessons learned over the years go right out the window.

[Todd Chretien]

X warp at the first few layers?  Maybe try setting minimum layer time in the slicer.  Also try blocking the opening at the left side of the hotend.  The cooling fan for heatsink has air that escapes through that opening.

[TobyCWood]

Here's another build tip...

Do NOT follow the instructions when it says to mount the roller holders on to the 2040 extrusions. Yes... Make VERY sure you orient them correct but before you mount them to the extrusions FIRST slide them on to the rollers!! They'll go on WAY easier! Then put them on the extrusions. Orientation is super important on every step so be sure the belt pulleys are on the Right side when looking to the front of the printer.... and the front of the printer is where the parts fall off.

On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 1:36:23 PM UTC-8 TobyCWood wrote:

[TobyCWood]

LOL!!!   Thats "prints fall off" not parts!! Too bad Google removed the edit feature.

Here's yet another...

The hacked Cura has serious issues so I switched to the Ideamaker beta and used the CR30 profile. While I really don't care for the template approach they invented it is much better, has an OS X version and I can at a least change some things that I can't in the hacked Cura.

Here's another in case you missed it above:

DO NOT change the distance of the priming line in the start gcode from the first extrusion on the belt. It's not just a priming line, it's an anchor line.

[TobyCWood]

Heres what I mean. Note the layer lines. It's not warped it's simply not square. I rechecked steps per mm 3 times now on the belt. It shifts in -Z a it goes up in X.

[Todd Chretien]

In Cura, you can put the number of copies of the model you want printed.  It doesn't repeat the line after the first part.  Same if you place multiple parts on the build plate.  The prime line is part of the start gcode, so it only applies it once.  I've run multiple items and haven't had any adhesion problems so far.  I'm testing some really small parts tonight (tiny little stars and letters I normally print on a Monoprice mini.  It is just a few layers thick, but we print a lot of them and I hate having to tend the mini, so seeing if this is a viable option.  I'm expecting problems, but we will see.

I'm going to have to checkout Idea

[Luke Hartfiel]

Toby,

Does the Chitu firmware have software skew correction, like Marlin? Would that even work on a belt printer?

On 5 Jan 2021, at 9:16 am, TobyCWood <andyc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Heres what I mean. Note the layer lines. It's not warped it's simply not square. I rechecked steps per mm 3 times now on the belt. It shifts in -Z a it goes up in X.

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[markni...@gmail.com]

It might actually be Marlin.

I watched the Joel/Bill Steele video again and I might have been mistaken that he said Chitu variant of Marlin.

Someone familiar with the Marlin user interface should look at the screen on Bill's iFactory.

He has an early pre-production that has not got the Raspberry Pi on it yet, so what is displayed on his LCD is the actual UI of the firmware.

[TobyCWood]

The fix was easy. Steps per mm in Z needed to be reset. Do anything to the belt and you have to check the steps!

Now if I can only figure out how to get prints to reliably stick to the bed!