Bambu Labs X1 thoughts?

[Jakob Stavenau]

https://bambulab.com/

This thing seems sweet. Kickstarter campaign launches tomorrow at 1500UTC. What do you guys think about this compared to the prusa XL?

[TobyCWood]

Coming from Shenzen. It could be anything. No way to know. It might be great or it might not. And It’s not a toolchanger.

[TobyCWood]

If it’s great than why go with crowd funding?

[Jakob Stavenau]

I backed it. I’ll let you know if my gamble pays off. Many popular YouTubers have them in hand. 

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Subject: Re: Bambu Labs X1 thoughts?

 

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[James Fackert]

why? because kickstarter kickstarts sales for gizmos with unique features, and its about cashflow.

interesting for its force sensing of nozzle/bed contact AND  lidar bed leveling

(a first?) and color mixing  with enclosed filament reel holders and remote operation and spaghetti detection. and coresxy and enclosed build area.  and high temperature materials and multi-material as well as multi-color printing.

I would like one of every important feature please. Tired of getting two out of four "must have" features in every new printer.

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[Mark Steele]

I am backer #38 for the X1 Carbon combo. Have been anticipating this for over a month now. 

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[Jakob Stavenau]

Nice I’m 651#

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Subject: Re: Bambu Labs X1 thoughts?

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[Vishal Pai]

Seems like a decent printer from the YouTube reviews. 

One of my key reqs for a hobby printer is maintainability (not to be confused with tinkering) at a high school grad level. Nobody is shipping it back and forth to Shenzhen for repairs. 

This one with a proprietary Hotend, lidar camera and cloud dependency seems to be on the complex side of things. 

I have backed them just out of curiosity of the AMS and lidar. I have never backed a 3d printer project beyond the $1 pledges. The YouTube reviews by Joel Telling and Filament frenzy pushed me over the fence. So fingers crossed on this one. 

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[Neil MacGregor]

Naming -- when I think "X1 Carbon", I think Thinkpad.

Not open source...  lots of tasty, proprietary parts to replace, enabling cool features.

A high-speed Core-XY using carbon-fibre rods/tubes to support the x-axis -- not a linear guide: that's surprising.  The vertical arrangement of the rods, belt-driven, seems lifted straight off the Prusa i3, to my eyes.  The i3 uses machined steel rods, which are easy to get straight.  I guess I have no experience with CF, but it surprises me that they'd be straight enough.

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[darrel...@gmail.com]

What strikes me is that it isn't unbelieveably fast, but it is believeably fast. So that is credible. On the other hand, the kickstarter entry price of under $700 seems unbelieveably low for this level of features and performance. What's behind that? They could go under due to bad financial management. Or they could take the money and run. 

[LukeH]

20,000mm/s^2 acceleration and 500mm/s print speeds are bordering on unbelievably fast. They say they have a 40W ceramic heater. There is a limit to how fast plastic can melt and flow from a nozzle. It is sort of unbelievable.

I’m willing to bet that the Benchies shown in the photo aren’t the claimed 16m30s ones. Plus, people are printing 7-minute benchies with 400mm/s printers, so if it does print at 500mm/s as claimed, why does it take 16.5 minutes for a Benchy on this device? The math doesn’t add up…

Also why does it need a LiDAR? I mean, bed levelling doesn’t need to be more accurate than the thickness of the first layer. More accurate doesn’t make the levelling better. The other (presumably piezo from the description) levelling should be more than capable. That’s why it doesn’t s the first printer to have LiDAR - it is a totally unnecessary expense.

[Kurt at VRFX]

I will admit - it does look pretty Slick. I went to the website - and just now got to the KS page. Am a bit surprised its already at $2.77M! Already 2302 Backers. But, CAN they Deliver!?!? Am skeptical of claim of 700+ Test Units of the machine already built. As for claim of 20 meters/second squared - not sure exactly how that relates to standard fast 3DP desktop speeds of like 200 mm/s.

I also need to dig in a bit to see the claims of multi-colors. I suspect they do NOT do Color mixing - its purely the colors loaded in the machine. And, I suspect they take any standard filaments - like you're not locked into Their filament.
Hell - if I had like $700 spare cash in the bank, that I could "throw away" - in case they don't deliver - then I would surely back this project! But, yeah - I obviously can't...

-Kurt

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[Jakob Stavenau]

Multiple YouTubers have printed the 17min benchy with the unit already. They are real. 

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[Kurt at VRFX]

Hey there Luke,

On 5/31/2022 1:41 PM, LukeH wrote:

20,000mm/s^2 acceleration and 500mm/s print speeds are bordering on unbelievably fast.

Dang - I guess I missed the 500mm/s speed thing, when I did my last reply. Yes - that DOES sound Insanely fast! At Essentium - they were approaching those kind of speeds, but, as noted on their website - partially that is the linear motor rails. So, am surprised this machine can go those speeds if Not using linear rails. But, more so, as noted on Essentium website - to get those speeds, they push up the heat of the nozzle MUCH Higher. Which also requires special filament that can HANDLE such high speeds. I doubt those speeds can be attained with just a standard PLA - which is what comes with their machines - unless its a Special PLA formulation!

They say they have a 40W ceramic heater. There is a limit to how fast plastic can melt and flow from a nozzle. It is sort of unbelievable.

I’m willing to bet that the Benchies shown in the photo aren’t the claimed 16m30s ones. Plus, people are printing 7-minute benchies with 400mm/s printers, so if it does print at 500mm/s as claimed, why does it take 16.5 minutes for a Benchy on this device? The math doesn’t add up…

My input on this...

Others that do the Benchys at high speeds on other machines, to get that 7 min. deal - I bet they are printing at like 0.2mm layer heights. These guys, just like those Anke Maker guys - are printing at the lower 0.1mm layer heights, since - as they claim - to print smooth surfaces. But, the other printer folks doing a Benchy at 7 min - I don't really know if they are claiming 0.2mm layer heights. Also, are they attempting lower infill percentages used?

Also why does it need a LiDAR? I mean, bed levelling doesn’t need to be more accurate than the thickness of the first layer. More accurate doesn’t make the levelling better. The other (presumably piezo from the description) levelling should be more than capable. That’s why it doesn’t s the first printer to have LiDAR - it is a totally unnecessary expense.

As for No Need for LiDAR as you stated - I THINK that its actually used to do Spagetti & Rotini detection! Right???

-K

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[TobyCWood]

I watched some of one of the YouTube reviews. The reviewer gushed all over about how wonderful it is. 

It sure looks great.

However….

Let, me remind all that a REAL review should be on a production sample, from someone who is knowledgeable (and being on YouTube is not automatically knowledgeable), did not get a freebie or an eval unit, and most importantly… used OVER TIME…. Like MONTHS using many spools of filament and many different use cases.

But this is my issue with all YouTube reviews, not just the Bambu. Also, this is the real problem with buying via crowd funding. You may save some money, but you are actually doing the beta testing for a company that does not want to bother with it.
Otoh, it may be awesome. Although the LiDAR for bed leveling is like a shotgun to kill a flea.

[TobyCWood]

Gee... I wonder why they didn't do Input Shaping? Ah! They have active vibration compensation !

Too many pie in the sky bells and whistles for my taste. Too good to be true.

[TobyCWood]

Past $3.3m... 

[jmpr...@gmail.com]

I think the Lidar is mainly to measure the pre-print extrusion to compensate extrusion rates at different speeds, and since it is already there why not also use it to verify bed leveling.

I ordered one, it is different enough to intrigue me and I needed an idea for a 50th birthday present.

[TobyCWood]

Whitney and I looked at the website and the KS page real carefully. Too many things that struck us as odd. For example, the short vid that compared the print extrusion quality with the active vibration compensation on and off. With it off it looked like there was a serious extruder issue. With it on it looked ordinary if not mediocre. Seemed to us they manipulated it to make it look like it was an incredible thing but as an example of vibration compensation it was actually irrelevant. IMO... a tiny bit of BS makes it all smell bad.

They never showed the critical parts of the 3DBenchy closeup, and they seemed to not be too careful about describing the speed that this thing prints at. It just looked to me like the sales pitch for each feature made it way too good to be true. Hope I'm wrong but it reminds me too much of past BS we've seen from previous campaigns.

[Joseph VonDohlen]

I was able to get one at the early bird pricing. Even if it comes out to be equal in ability as my Vorons, it's still 500 less than a 2.4 but with multi material options.

[Kurt at VRFX]

Andy - I agree with you - seems like WAY TOO MUCH Hype on this printer. And, when there's too much Hype - its almost BOUND to Fail, since you raised people's expectations "Thru the Roof". Also, if they are oriented in China - the write-ups look Too Professional, like they Hired someone to write it up for them, so there's no broken English. And, if they hired someone to make the English sound good, they may have also told the person Specifically to Hype the product.

Jason - I VERY Much look forward to your feedback about the printer, once you receive it and put it thru its paces. I KNOW you will be good at testing it out - so, I really do look forward to see what you have to say. In the end, maybe some of us will have to "Eat Crow" - if and ONLY IF the printer turns out to be THAT Good!!!

-Kurt

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[artis...@gmail.com]

IMHO, when something sounds too good to be true...

If this is ready, it seems like a poor choice to promote a 3d printer on KS given that "Kickstarted 3D printers" are almost a meme.

[Kurt at VRFX]

Hello there Mr. Robot Artist,

Now, yeah - I agree with you in regards to your 1st comment. It almost Does seem TOO Good to be True.

But, I completely disagree on your 2nd comment. There HAVE Been some great 3DP's that have been Intro'd to the world via KickStarter. I think the 1st 3DP from Raise3D was a Good one. And, I hope I get this right - but, I think the Bukobot (sp?) by WhoSa was intro'd via KS (I hope I'm not wrong about that). And, there WERE Some other decent printers intro'd this way. Yes, there was BAD FAILS pitched on KS, the ONO (like Oh Shit No - formerly the OLO) which I backed and it NEVER Delivered, some kinda Pirate 3DP - which I think may have been the FULL On Scam - and others.

Still, the KS platform is a GREAT way for a co. to Intro. a new 3DP - and I honestly believe that. I actually launched a KS campaign some years ago, it was a bit of an Epic Fail - and, nope - it was NOT a 3DP. But, the prototype shown in my campaign WAS Produced on a 3DP!

So - don't bash it TOO Badly for launching on KS. Heck, the Anke Maker (sp??) was recently launched on KS - and folks seemed to think that one looked Good! Believe me - if I had the spare cash - I'd back this printer!!!

-Kurt

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[Hugh Johnson]

You guys seen all the videos of it actually printing nice looking, super fast, multicolor prints right? If it’s a scam it’s amazingly elaborate. Seems like it would be a lot easier for them just to sell the printers than for it to be a scam. I backed it.

Thanks,

Hugh

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[Kurt at VRFX]

OMG - its the Return of Hugh! That's a Huge thing around here! I haven't seen you on here for a while. Good to see you popping your head back in here. I know we communicated a while ago via DM - so, of course - I already have the inside scoop on your nickname.

Anyway - yeah, I hear you about this printer. Am kinda jealous you're getting one. But, I hope it works out well for you. One of these days I hope to finally get myself another 3DP - once I can truly afford it.

-Kurt