Tariffs anyone?

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Anybody see anything yet on their purchases? It would show up as an “Import Fee”. I did notice that the day after we ordered our X1C the price went up by $50.

[Ray Price]

Haven't seen anything yet, but have heard of boardgame kickstarters reaching out for backfill.

Calling out an "Import Fee" or "Import Tariff" as a separate line item is EXACTLY how this should be communicated.  Simply raising the price would hide the true nature of what is going on.

On Mon, Apr 7, 2025 at 1:56 PM 3D Printing Tips and Tricks <3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Anybody see anything yet on their purchases? It would show up as an “Import Fee”. I did notice that the day after we ordered our X1C the price went up by $50.

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[Jody Harris]

I noted the preorder price on the Bambu Labs H2D at MatterHackers.com on Apr 2 and Apr 3:

Apr 2:$2,599.00

Apr 3: $2,749.00

https://www.matterhackers.com/store/l/bambu-lab-h2d-3d-printer

-j

Think carefully

On Monday, April 7th, 2025 at 12:56 PM, 3D Printing Tips and Tricks <3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Anybody see anything yet on their purchases? It would show up as an “Import Fee”. I did notice that the day after we ordered our X1C the price went up by $50.

--

[Ed Street]

I shipped a product that cost $180 to Turkey and that was delivered this past week, their import fee's were $540. That is 300% Tarrifs.  

So far I have not seen any listings, we will see it from places like grizzly and harbor freight soon I think.  I did see that several places raised prices like polymaker.

[Alan B]

In the past there was an $800 trigger on EU imports so things under that didn't get a tariff. Is that gone?

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/00096476-b349-44dd-b09b-af9d495efa2en%40googlegroups.com.

[Ed Street]

you mean the de minimis?  that is getting axed.  Why?  companies like ali express and others have been taking advantage of that, aka ABUSING.  place an order over $800 and they break it up into multiples that is under $800 and vola no $$ needed.  

See here for the house version of a law.   https://waysandmeans.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/One-Pager-De-Minimis-One-Pager.pdf  Yes this will directly affect all things with 3d printing, the best overall solution is to build things at home.

[John Schneider]

We've used a US-centered supply chain since day one at 3D-Fuel, and it's been a good, practical decision for us. Shorter lead times mean less time with capital tied up in raw materials in transit from overseas.

Are we completely immune? No. Our box costs have already gone up 14% as the result of the tariffs on Canadian timber.

But it's a lot better than what other manufacturers are contending with now.

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[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

I just ordered 4 spool refills of PETG from Bambu. 14.99 each. Only standard sales tax. No import fee… yet.

[Jody Harris]

Tariff watch update.

Bambu Labs H2D at MatterHackers.com:

Apr 2:$2,599.00

Apr 3: $2,749.00

Apr 8: $4,569.00

https://www.matterhackers.com/store/l/bambu-lab-h2d-3d-printer

-j

Think carefully

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[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Wow... There ya go...

[Nat Brooks]

Ouch. 

As a comparison, I just checked here in the Australian Bambu Lab online store. 

AUD$2,999 for the base model. Just a hair under $1,800 USD equivelant.

AUD$3,499 for the AMS system included. Or Just under $2,100 USD equivelant.

1 AUD = 0.60 USD. 

I think you are in for a tough ride for a bit over there.

[Nat Brooks]

Ouch. 

As a comparison, I just checked here in the Australian Bambu Lab online store. 

AUD$2,999 for the base model. Just a hair under $1,800 USD equivelant.

AUD$3,499 for the AMS system included. Or Just under $2,100 USD equivelant.

1 AUD = 0.60 USD. 

I think you are in for a tough ride for a bit over there.

On Wednesday, 9 April 2025 at 1:49:23 pm UTC+10 Jody Harris wrote:

[Ed Street]

Good.

I am looking for the "E" word to be used.  So far no one has mentioned it.  That word will hurt much more than just China.  Also, I knew of this plan since the 80s-90s and so far nothing has happened that made me go huh? where did that come from.

>>> I think you are in for a tough ride for a bit over there.  

It's not just the US.  Have you seen the Asian markets this past week?

[Nat Brooks]

Yep, very aware of our markets over here. Uncertainty effects more than the USA.

The Australian market has dropped about 7% in a week. Other markets in Asia more than that.

I must admit, I have no idea what you are referring to as the 'E' word.

[Sophie]

E for "Eejit"? Referring to the orange guy?

No I don't know either, probably some reference to the economy or exchange rate.

But yea you know it's bad when it's cheaper in the UK! At the moment a pre-order for an H2D with AMS Pro is £1949, which includes 

£321.50 of British Taxes plus £80 shipping.

Translated that works out about a total of $2470.12 compared to your $5139 for the same thing from MatterHackers. 

We've felt it over here too, my investments dropped 5% in a matter of days this week. And the British market overall was similar to the Australian at around a 7% drop overall. 

[Gary Tolley - Grogyan]

I bought a Voron 0.2 kit from Formbot
It was USS $80 cheaper from China than the US, not sure 8f that was due to tariffs

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[Duncan Reed]

There are some definitely weird things going on, I just bought and had some delivered to the UK that is manufactured in the US (not 3d printer related), because it was cheaper than buying from UK suppliers, I  can only assume that is because of the drop of the value of the dollar against the pound over the last few months.

I also read somewhere that Chinese products may get cheaper in the UK (or which ever country you are in) as china let the value of there currency change to boost exports to non-American countries. Sounds good for UK but at the end of the day its a world market so I doubt anyone will be winners (car exports spring to mind).

Regards

Duncan

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[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!!]

That is an UTTERLY Insane price hike!

MH won't be selling ANY Bambus for a while now!!!

Funny comment Sophie - as it was the Supernatural TV show that the one dude was always using that pronunciation of Idiot. I thought it was funny as Hell!

And - yeah - here in the US - a LOT of folks are Not happy with Carrot Top!

-K

[Jody Harris]

That's not a price hike.

That's a tax.

It won't be just MH.

Smoot-Hawley, it's what made the Depression Great.

Obviously, let's try that again!

-j

Think carefully

-------- Original Message --------

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[John Mueller]

For 15-yrs I have had a miserable time shipping to Canada and they have a whole border crossing scheme where I have to ship to Washington or New York and they pick it up. On the flip side I can order from my Canadian suppliers with no issue. In many cases I was just returning an item they sent me to repair. 3D printer needed a new belt for example, silly stuff but the paperwork and research to make sure I was getting all the codes right would always take me time.

Regardless of who has been in office I will be really happy if we can fix selling into Canada and heck just shipping items back to their owners. Lol

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[Sophie]

@Jody, I would say it is a price hike and a tax! The suppliers get hit with a dumb tax which makes sourcing their stock more expensive...and guess who that expense gets passed down to!? That's right, the consumer, in the form of a price hike. External suppliers to the US will likely only call it a tax because it will only affect customers from certain countries (which now includes the US). It's the same here in the UK, I see prices of stuff from abroad and it's like "oh wow nice price!" Then I put that I'm from the UK as delivery address, and all of a sudden, whack 20% on there as tax, wam bam thank you ma'am. Don't even get me started on shipping.

[Jody Harris]

Today, I started tracking leadtimes on Prusa printers:

Wednesday, Apr 9, 2025 

Prusa Core ONE:

Leadtime for new orders is 4-5 weeks

Prusa XL Assembled 2-toolhead 3D Printer

Estimated leadtime 1–2 weeks

Many people fail to understand how much government intervention skews all aspects of the economy. While we in the US have a 104% tariff on imports from China, more expensive printers will be much more attractive to consumers. Prusa is going to see a huge surge in orders now that they are artificially price competitive. If Prusa expands production too fast, it will lead to quality problems. If he expands too slowly, he misses some easy, quick profits. If he expands, he has to do it in a way that makes it cost effective to roll back and release workers since no one knows what the tariffs are going to next week. Economic chaos ensues.

Watching this ****show in real time rather than reading it in history books is fascinating and terrible.

-j

Think carefully

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[John Mueller]

We don't know how long it will actually last, I will just hold my back big purchases for a few weeks. I also frontloaded on a bunch of inventory to be safe.

Other countries have been dealing with this for a long time, so I don't mind some pain to get a more level playing field. My sales might improve to countries that currently can't buy from me, hello Brazil hopefully I get calls all the time from down that way. I am thinking big picture. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/u0ksJAgqKbM14MReo-w5s4VdaXZppa1FIYAMJKT_Xc4Y0aHRcFj89BahQ_UwbpxsEQ-W109vMZbOytWZByjg3P7mdxvfAzHozL1bitz8pMQ%3D%40harrisdev.com.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

I just took a look at buying an X1C and the H2D from the Bambu website.

I see no change in prices and I looked all the way to checkout to see if they added the cost as a tax. So for nothing.

[Jody Harris]

Well, THAT's interesting. [insert head scratching here]

-j

Think carefully

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/359cd940-8c6a-45f9-97cf-ca20ecd5c01cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Bryan Murphy]

I would think it's partly inventory (they have stock available already imported) and lag.  I think the fees only started to go into place yesterday evening.  It's going to take all these large bureaucratic organizations time to work out what they need to change.  Some might even be holding out for a "quick deal"

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/PEae8z1o6LW1IR-dqoLp6ukxgGDekTzhypenakI_xwZygrZ8MjNyPmboff0pwLL-TlHm8gnyOuJjc4lMNL6THwjkj7pyb_cAbRd8ssHDu2M%3D%40harrisdev.com.

[Sophie]

Businesses were given only 3 days to implement these changes...Chinese businesses given 7 days to implement the extra changes...I wonder if not everyone has been able to update their infrastructure yet to reflect. 

I wonder if you went to actually purchase something without the tariff added on, if it would error out, or a few days later maybe you'd get a refund citing "system error", and then asked to repurchase with the new added tariff. 

[Duncan Reed]

I remember it taking 6-12 months to get import/exports from/to EU sorted in Brexit. 5 or so years on and still a lot of companies no longer trade if its across the EU/UK boundary, as its too much hassle. 3 days doesn't seem long. Generally in IT it takes several weeks to get changes approved, and that's after you have tested the thing. No doubt things will get rushed out and then break things even more.

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[John Grzegorczyk]

is it weird that Creality didn't increase their prices yet?!?!

[Alan B]

If a foreign company ships direct from them to you, the tariffs get charged by the shipper such as Fedex. So the seller doesn't mess with it. If they have warehouses in the US then they factor in the tariffs to the price as they have to pay it on the way to their US warehouse.

My small business basically has given up on selling foreign. The foreign import tariffs basically killed foreign sales. People in the US don't generally understand how the world has been working, or how broken it really is. Our current pres doesn't express himself very well, but he understands and has a lot of guts for attacking it. Hopefully when the dust settles we will all be better off, but it's still early to understand where it will end up. Understand the big picture.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/f88907e8-67e7-44ef-846f-7e413c889dffn%40googlegroups.com.

[Bryan Murphy]

3 days is no time at all.  Even if you tried to get ahead of this, the administration's so chaotic and reactive it's hard to know where things will land. Case in point, they've already delayed some tariffs again today.  

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/c1b1628e-55fb-49e8-9115-71bee1db8edfn%40googlegroups.com.

[Ed Street]

In business, you need to be somewhat " chaotic and reactive." After all, you have to make decisions quickly, and more often than not, when you delay decisions, things go wrong. Now, the Government is frequently the direct opposite of this. They accumulate those who cannot make sound business decisions, and frankly, lots and lots of waste is involved, including time and money.  The government should learn to be more business-like, but sadly, that will take firing those in charge and putting those who are business savvy in place.

As for the tariff on China and the "E" word I mentioned earlier (which was warped and twisted into some political slant), the word is "Embargo." See Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917, Foreign Assistance act of 1961, and International Emergency Economic Powers act of 1977. Also, note that President Obama ramped up some significant sanctions against Russia, Iran, etc. This set the stage for this, and pushing the boundaries allowed other presidents to do the same in different areas.  I have said for a super long time now to be very careful as rights are fundamental, and once you start down the road of rights restrictions, the pendulum can and will swing in other directions as well.   

Having said all of this, we know how this will end up, it seems crystal clear to me what the end goal is.

[Bryan Murphy]

> In business, you need to be somewhat " chaotic and reactive." After all, you have to make decisions quickly, and more often than not, when you delay decisions, things go wrong.

The businesses also have to have the infrastructure, processes and people to support being reactive. Businesses build those processes when they are needed.  This tariff chaos is something that has not happened in a very long time so most businesses do not have those processes and are not ready for this. 

I've been through a lot of change in my business the past year, some of which we had to react very quickly.  It's been very disruptive and it's not been easy.  We're still picking up the pieces a year after the chaos started.  

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/1c552021-5501-4412-b649-39b60262a051n%40googlegroups.com.

[Jody Harris]

Tariff watch:

Prusa Core One 3D Printer - Fully Assembled & delivered @ MatterHackers.com

( https://www.matterhackers.com/store/l/prusa-core-one-3d-printer/sk/MAHAEF7D )

$1,649.00 Est. In Stock: Apr 21st

Up $150.25 from $1,498.75

-j

Think carefully

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/CAP%2B1M2d%2BsNK%3DoTnKMi6baYCNVLBqKHU3Xox-ykDVHY-dL5GEAg%40mail.gmail.com.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Just announced… fees for under $800 will be tripled.

[Sophie]

@Ed, "warped and twisted" is a bit strong, especially when you're being so cryptic. And yes it is very political, it's all very political, it all came around because of people in politics lol.

And I'm not sure it is crystal clear to everyone how it will end up. If you can see the future, what the heck are you doing on here? Get yourself down for the jackpot lottery!

My condolences to all those on here trying to run a business amidst all this turmoil. I can't imagine how much stress and uncertainty this is putting on you all. Especially when the goal posts seem to be moving and changing what seems to be hour by hour or at least day by day

I know this is 3D printing, but I'm also a massive boardgame enthusiast, and today my friend posted that this has also hit the boardgaming industry hard too :( 

[vr...@optonline.net]

Jody - thanks for that feedback! Yeah - Sad day indeed when prices for a Cool printer go thru the ROOF! Yeah - I know - it's a Tariff - not a simple price hike. 

Still - I HIGHLY Doubt anyone here in the USA is going to buy the H2D at that price!!!

 

In fact, based upon Andy's review about the H2D - I was SERIOUSLY Considering buying one in a few months - after things level out for me financially (since I only recently started the new job - and was essentially unemployed for like 7 months - which was ROUGH - to put it lightly...).

 

But, yeah - I see the H2D as a capable printer for several of my projects - projects I am looking to hopefully launch kinda soon on KickStarter! And, yup - the H2D would be for the original prototypes - including prototypes I will sell!

 

-K

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

------ Original Message ------
From: jha...@harrisdev.com
To: vr...@optonline.net Cc: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 9th 2025, 08:51 AM
Subject: Re: Tariffs anyone?
 

That's not a price hike.

That's a tax.

It won't be just MH.

Smoot-Hawley, it's what made the Depression Great.

Obviously, let's try that again!

-j

Think carefully

-------- Original Message --------

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[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Now it looks like it’s all about cutting off China… as well as bump and dump…or the bond mkt…  who the heck knows!

Just read an article about all the manufacturing contracts that are getting cancelled and the high probability of factory closures in China. Opinion pieces are talking about how this could easily damage the Chinese govt.
It’s getting really crazy. If I was buying the new H2D I’d be concerned. So it goes.

[Duncan Reed]

I guess everyone will be switching to South Korean made Android phones, no one will be able to afford anything else. They weren't cheap to start with.

US exports accounts for 15% of China's exports but they have been trying to diversify from reliance on exports since the last Trump administration. Will get to see how successfully they have been. There will be some products the US does still have to buy from China as they aren't made/mined anywhere else in quantity, at least for a while.

Probably good for Raspberry PI, as it suddenly becomes cheaper than the knock offs

https://www.theregister.com/2025/04/02/raspberry_pi_not_affected_by_tariff/

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[Randy Zimmer]

Consider this. Today, every item that enters the US has at least a 10% tariff to be paid before the item is released. Who is processing the fees and where are the items stored? Since no one was hired to do this extra work and no property was secured and transportation of the goods to the (non-existent) warehouses was procured beforehand, this whole situation is pure insanity. Even if you want to pay, don't hold your breath while the goods you want get held and lost.

[John Mueller]

I have had containers get held before and takes a few weeks to add my fees. It will not get released by DHL or UPS until I pay the import fees. Same with small expensive items, they have whole warehouses at the major airports to hold items. From my past experience and watching a few TV shows anyway. 

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[Ed Street]

Yes, Andy, this has always been 100% about China.  They steal our IP, they steal our tech, they steal everything, and they use the vacuum cleaner method of acquiring data from us, then they sell it back to us much cheaper than we can make it.  They also manipulate their currency to dominate the markets further and push their agenda onto others.  This is why getting things in Europe is cheaper and easier (see previous posts). This manipulation is highly illegal in Europe, Canada, the US, and many others.

These numbers they are playing with now are the low end and will be going to say 400% fairly soon. This is going to cause major problems with China, and they can only hold out for maybe a month before they have to cave. I will not be discussing what they should be doing or what other nations should be doing here.

I also want to point out a few issues that many may not be aware of.  There was a classified document case when Trump was not in office.  His Florida location was a hotbed of Chinese spy activity involving nuclear secrets and other classified material.  Also, China is actively trying to recruit fired federal employees.

Do friendly countries do this to you?  Nope, they do not.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

The whole thing started when Nixon took the US off the gold standard and the dollar became the currency for oil. That made the dollar so strong that US manufacturing could not compete. We’ve never done a damn thing about it. So is the solution to just burn the house down? Really? 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

I forgot to mention… I ordered some hiking shoes via Amazon today. A10% tax was added that was on top of the usual tax. We will see the effects more and more in the days and weeks ahead. I just don’t see this ending well…  I also felt that way about Covid back in 2020.

[John Mueller]

With the 90-day pause they still added it? WTH

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/d742a04c-eaa7-44a9-b0bb-48b0ff5b4efbn%40googlegroups.com.

[Sophie]

I thought the 90 day pause was just for the additional tax rises. So for the UK tax is 25% but with the 90 day pause it's only 10%. It's not a pause on all tax, just the extra hikes on top of the hikes I thought, based on reading BBC news. 

[Sophie]

And I believe thats only for countries who have negotiated with Mr Flatulence. So it's not a blanket 90 day pause. (Maybe, don't quote me)

[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!!]

Yo Jody - I Totally Agree with your Fascinating and Terrible history comment.  As it's rather interesting to think of the Future looking back on the Past!

On Wednesday, April 9, 2025 at 10:45:44 AM UTC-4 Jody Harris wrote:

Today, I started tracking leadtimes on Prusa printers:

Wednesday, Apr 9, 2025 

Prusa Core ONE:

Leadtime for new orders is 4-5 weeks

Prusa XL Assembled 2-toolhead 3D Printer

Estimated leadtime 1–2 weeks

Many people fail to understand how much government intervention skews all aspects of the economy. While we in the US have a 104% tariff on imports from China, more expensive printers will be much more attractive to consumers. Prusa is going to see a huge surge in orders now that they are artificially price competitive. If Prusa expands production too fast, it will lead to quality problems. If he expands too slowly, he misses some easy, quick profits. If he expands, he has to do it in a way that makes it cost effective to roll back and release workers since no one knows what the tariffs are going to next week. Economic chaos ensues.

Watching this ****show in real time rather than reading it in history books is fascinating and terrible.

-j

Think carefully

On Wednesday, April 9th, 2025 at 8:14 AM, Sophie <smhe...@gmail.com> wrote:

@Jody, I would say it is a price hike and a tax! The suppliers get hit with a dumb tax which makes sourcing their stock more expensive...and guess who that expense gets passed down to!? That's right, the consumer, in the form of a price hike. External suppliers to the US will likely only call it a tax because it will only affect customers from certain countries (which now includes the US). It's the same here in the UK, I see prices of stuff from abroad and it's like "oh wow nice price!" Then I put that I'm from the UK as delivery address, and all of a sudden, whack 20% on there as tax, wam bam thank you ma'am. Don't even get me started on shipping.

On Wednesday, April 9, 2025 at 2:15:07 PM UTC+1 John Mueller wrote:

For 15-yrs I have had a miserable time shipping to Canada and they have a whole border crossing scheme where I have to ship to Washington or New York and they pick it up. On the flip side I can order from my Canadian suppliers with no issue. In many cases I was just returning an item they sent me to repair. 3D printer needed a new belt for example, silly stuff but the paperwork and research to make sure I was getting all the codes right would always take me time.

Regardless of who has been in office I will be really happy if we can fix selling into Canada and heck just shipping items back to their owners. Lol

On Wed, Apr 9, 2025, 7:51 AM Jody Harris <jha...@harrisdev.com> wrote:

That's not a price hike.

That's a tax.

It won't be just MH.

Smoot-Hawley, it's what made the Depression Great.

Obviously, let's try that again!

-j

Think carefully

-------- Original Message --------
On 4/9/25 4:55 AM, Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!! wrote:

That is an UTTERLY Insane price hike!

MH won't be selling ANY Bambus for a while now!!!

Funny comment Sophie - as it was the Supernatural TV show that the one dude was always using that pronunciation of Idiot. I thought it was funny as Hell!

And - yeah - here in the US - a LOT of folks are Not happy with Carrot Top!

-K

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[Bryan Murphy]

Yeah, it's something like that.  Given the sloppiness of this administration and all the confusion it's hard to know what's actually being imposed moment to moment but it is something along these lines right now.  I think the 10% tariffs started on the 5th and are almost across the board.  The other additional/reciprocal tariffs were delayed, with the exception of some of the China tariffs of course.

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[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!!]

Bryan - I hear you. As I'm now back to being a programmer by day - and, yeah - almost ALL Businesses are dependent upon computer software to run their business. And, it's NOT Always easy to implement SW changes in a Biz - as one wrong move can break things badly. I'm sure other programmers will agree with me - as when I deal with Live Database systems - I am VERY Careful to the point of almost being Paranoid about breaking things! 

-K

[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!!]

Mr Flatulence???

HOLY CRUD - you had me Laughing SO HARD at that Comment Sophie!!!

Thank you SO MUCH for putting a Smile on my face!

-K

[John Mueller]

At the end of the day if it allows me to sell into new markets I will take the pain right now. So bummed I could not buy stocks the other day since I was driving to an event, I knew it would pop back up and on some things I could have made a sweet 20%! LOL

I mainly buy American supplies so none of my costs have changed yet. Talking with a buddy who runs a steel plant they are already seeing more sales and orders.

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[Sophie]

Not gonna lie Kurt...that reference was totally just for you :D

No one else would appreciate it as much :P

[Ed Street]

>> We’ve never done a damn thing about it. So is the solution to just burn the house down? Really? 

That is drastic words for it, and it's not burning it down but changing to hopefully be something better.   After all, it's all about negotiations.  See the interview with Oprah from the 80's for the playbook and why.  Also, pharmaceuticals will be coming up soon.

>> At the end of the day if it allows me to sell into new markets I will take the pain right now. 

When you look at the current situation, China can steal your IP, and you can't do anything about it.  There is no recourse against the action of the government's theft. One of the hopes is that things like that will change; who knows, we hopefully will get better relations over this.  Did you know that China has historically refused direct lines of communication with the white house?  The offer was to put in a "red phone" like what we have with Russia, and that was turned down.  There is so much discord and lack of understanding on their part it's not funny. If this gets fixed, it would be super helpful to all involved.

[John Mueller]

You could argue that we are trying something new, we have been getting screwed by all the past attempts.

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[Ed Street]

That would be a true statement. It is something new. This route is going to force China to make changes, some of which we have already seen. Another part is that the changes and reactions from China have been 100% expected so far, which is unsuitable for China overall in the long term. Before the month is out, they will cave; they have to.

[Sophie]

I don't entirely agree with you Ed regarding China stealing IP and there being nothing anyone can do about it.

I used to work for jaguar land rover, and there was a case where China stole the design of the Evoque and rebranded it as a Landwind selling at a fraction of the price of an Evoque in an attempt to hijack JLRs customer base. 

JLR retaliated and, ok, it was a long time but they won eventually reclaiming back their design. 

So yes china steal other people's ideas and efforts to rebrand it themselves and then flood the market with underpriced versions to cut out the original designer from their own product...but it is possible to fight back.

If you're a small scale business with not as much funding or legal prowess as JLR, then agreed not much can be done, but that's not to say "and you can't do anything about it".

JLR win against China

[John Mueller]

Agreed, they can't sustain like we can. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/6e67afad-4981-45ae-8411-520364a9989cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Ed Street]

@Sophie, Yes you can do things if you have the power.  The average company or person is unable to do anything about it.

>> As of the end of March 2024, Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) had a cash balance of £4.2 billion, a net debt of £0.7 billion, and total liquidity of £5.7 billion, including an undrawn revolving credit facility.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Drastic words is correct because what’s happening IS drastic! You really think blowing up the economy will fix anything? How will that happen? 

For sure a trade war will not fix the problem. All these tariffs will do is create yet another mess that others will have to clean up just like the mess from Covid. To fix the issues with China takes two things and neither of them starts a trade war: 1. Get the billionaires to invest in manufacturing… such as rare earth processing as an example.. and 2. Devalue the dollar. Reagan tried to do that but was stopped.

[Randy Zimmer]

My experience is living in Buffalo, NY with the Peace Bridge moving freight to and from Canada. The bridge is one of four in the area and three are in highly populated locations. The Lewiston bridge is more out of the way and trucks are routinely backed up for miles also even overnight. That was without the new rules. I have a friend that works the Peace Bridge and his usual workload had much overtime due to staffing issues, again, before the new rules. For at least 30 years, there have been plans to expand the Peace Bridge with a dual span and more area for inspections but it is in an Olmsted Park surrounded by homes built to be near the park facing the river and Canada. All of these homes have protected historical credentials. Rainbow in Niagara Falls is locked on both sides from expansion and so is Whirlpool. Both can't even take trucks. Next choices ate 100 Islands near Watertown and Detroit. These WNY bridges have all been past their capacity for years without the added strain. 

On Thursday, April 10, 2025 at 1:40:58 PM UTC-4 John Mueller wrote:

[John Mueller]

Truly is amazing how much crap we buy! I wonder how much is for kids birthday parties... Ha ha 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/b9da0a30-5fbc-4ca4-8bb8-ba364244e158n%40googlegroups.com.

[Sophie]

John, I wonder how much of it is filament orders to make the cheap plastic toys for kids parties lol!

[LukeH]

I’m wouldn’t be sure China will be giving in any time soon. 

Keep in mind that exports to the USA only represent about 14% of China’s total export market. That is a big chunk, but not a fatal blow to Chinese trade, and  with changes to international currency values, that will decrease slightly, and be picked up somewhat in increased trade with other nations. China will be cushioned by the other 86% of exports to countries where tariffs haven’t changed.

Meanwhile in the USA, people won’t even be able to buy a toaster without paying 2.5 times the price they previously paid. 

I think though that 3D printing as a hobby in the USA will take a hit. Who is going to pay $350 for a base model Ender 3 (still currently $199, but I guess it is stock that was already in the US?)? Even filament is going to become more expensive, since even if it isn’t made directly in China, it is probably made of raw materials from China.

[Ed Street]

Riddle me this.  

Why is everyone bent over a small percentage being added to select goods when other major parts of trade remain untouched?

[Luke Hartfiel]

Could it be because we are on a 3D printing forum, and the majority (like 90%) of hobby 3D printing equipment and consumables come from China?

On 12 Apr 2025, at 9:25 am, Ed Street <black...@gmail.com> wrote:

Riddle me this.  

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[Ed Street]

Nope.  The media also carry it, and the dogma is toted from the right and left.  It is ONLY with goods, not the other trade items.

[Sophie]

@Luke... I think Ed missed your point entirely, I agree with you, this is a 3D printing forum, people here gonna be worried about how much a Bambu goes up by, how much an Ender goes up by, or how much filament increases by, how much 3D printing innovation and hobby might be affected....

I think he's on a Tariff Trumpage (like a rampage..but for Trump supporters)

Even people who professionally 3D print, usually have a little bit of hobby on the side too! So I think it's more like 99% And as Andy says the podcast is for hobby professional industrial, doesn't matter. 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Uh…. I saw a news story yesterday about soybeans. Something like 7-9 billion in sales that won’t happen because of tariffs the Chinese reciprocated on.

Of course there’s the auto industry which was already selling products that were too expensive for the avg person to buy.

Then there’s rare earths which we have but don’t process that all dod manufacturing relies on.

Literally everything today to some degree comes from somewhere else.

There are so many other “trade items” I doubt anyone has the entire big picture.

This trade war baloney will destroy our economy. You don’t start a war you know you can’t win…. Unless of course you’re insane.

[Ed Street]

By "other trade items," I meant non-tangible items like services, banking, etc.

Oh, and I did see some postings about people buying H2D printers at Micro Center for $1,800. Don't fall for the media and groupthink mentality. 

As for soybeans, they say it was a terrible idea to give up our farmland to do corn and soybeans, and they will change it to locally grown stuff.

The US filament companies that I use have been saying no changes in pricing as most of their material is produced locally, and they will have higher demand.  A $20 spool from China will be $49; a $30 spool from China will be $74.   Both of those will still be $20/$30 from the US companies.

An LDO Nema 14 stepper motor for $17 will be $39, still cheaper than the $80+ US-made steppers. However, to equalize, a 400% tariff would be required.

[Baggo Bilbins]

As a Prusa user, I'm enjoying the histrionics from the armchair economists in the USA and abroad.  The XL price has been dropping, and I love the fact they will make their filaments in the USA.  I suspect Hatchbox3D will be successful in their on-shoring work, and I'm hoping to see a lot more of that.  Of course, I am willing to pay more for local manufacturing.  Our Wal-Mart approach to chasing the 'best price' has not served America well.  Sam Walton is turning in his grave.

Cheer up everyone, we'll be fine.  There were tariffs before Smoot-Holley that worked well.  Let's get China out of the 'world's manufacturer' seat.

[Randy Zimmer]

Border Update. Talked to my bridge worker friend. He says the traffic is down in both cars and trucks. Spring Break is supposed to be busier than normal. His time is mostly spent learning the ever-changing rules and looking up coding and fees for the few imports coming in.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

What? H2D from Microcenter?! Not at all believable. They’re not even available yet from Bambu! 

I see absolutely nothing positive coming from this chaos. Some experts believe this is the beginning of something way way worse than simply paying more for things…

https://apple.news/AUTiFYiHWRAucZwYSDzuLlA

[vr...@optonline.net]

Wow Andy - Crazy article - I didn't know about this "145% reciprocal tariffs on China."

I've spoken to a couple Republicans this weekend - and they seem to think Trump might be doing the right thing. But, SO MANY People in the world - like half the USA and a TON of people in other countries - don't seem to agree. 

TRULY A Mess is being made - not only of the USA - but, of the world. Cause, yeah - the impact is HUGE!

 

Well - at least I finally have a full time job...

 

-K

 

------ Original Message ------
From: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
To: 3d-printing-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 13th 2025, 06:31 PM
Subject: Re: Tariffs anyone?
What? H2D from Microcenter?! Not at all believable. They’re not even available yet from Bambu! 
 

I see absolutely nothing positive coming from this chaos. Some experts believe this is the beginning of something way way worse than simply paying more for things…

https://apple.news/AUTiFYiHWRAucZwYSDzuLlA
 

On Saturday, April 12, 2025 at 12:30:17 PM UTC-7 black...@gmail.com wrote:
 

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[Ed Street]

My mistake,  it was $2,200 and the center close to home in Atlanta.

  

[Luke Hartfiel]

Is that stock already in the country? Obviously if it is already here it won’t be charged the taraffs…

On 14 Apr 2025, at 10:57 am, Ed Street <black...@gmail.com> wrote:

My mistake,  it was $2,200 and the center close to home in Atlanta.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/3f39df39-ae5c-45f6-a480-f0e58fbca40cn%40googlegroups.com.

<489959209_10231513182074983_1528267970418482310_n.jpg>

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Really is a sweet machine. So with the tariff as we’re hearing it which is what? 145%?  around $5500. I wonder… are the tariffs after regular taxes or before? If one is buying direct than my bet, based on the fees I had to pay to customs on the Prusa XL and the E3D TC it’s separate. On the other hand if one is buying from a reseller such as Matterhackers or Microcenter my bet is they add it to the price which in turn would effect the rates on taxes that are already there. Bambu sells direct from within the US which means they will likely just increase the price and as such, the tax rates. If this is the case then it seems the best way to go is to buy direct so the tariff fees don’t increase the typical taxes which in the end means less profit for those onshore.

It’s interesting that Microcenters website doesn’t show any Bambu products at all. Also, when you go to the Bambu store it is still only taking preorders. So whatever this pic actually is I would doubt that the store actually has them in stock and is selling them.

So the Prusa XL sells with five extruders for around $4k with a 10% tariff around $4400. Ouch on Bambu! I wonder if it will affect sales? But wait! Most of the parts in the XL are actually made in China! How does that work out?
Mindless Chaos.

[Nat Brooks]

Tarrifs are paid at the time the goods cross into the country that is applying them, so they become part of the input cost of the item and the same way freight would for example. The final sales price is then drived from the input cost plus whatever margin then taxes are after that.

It's a little semantic, but the 145% is applied to the purchase cost of the item. That is to say, the final sell price may not go up 145%, if the importer takes a reduced margin for example.

Your question on the Chinese components of the XL is an interesting one. I haven't heard of how detailed they will be looking at the component sources, but I epect this would be considered at some point.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Ok, based on that which I believe assumes the seller has shipped a quantity into the us, the price increase which includes whatever profit loss to the seller in turn will increase the tax rate as well.
However, direct purchases from China, which up until seven years ago I did on a weekly basis, will get hit with the full tariff via the same method as customs fees. In other words, one will get contacted by customs with a bill.

Literally every part in a 3d printer, except for those that the user printed, comes from China. So that would mean that any 3d printer from outside the US…. Or even inside the US… can be subject to the tariffs or at least the de minimus fees. How in the world would they calculate that?

Or…

They simply ignore it or find a way around it. I wonder if we will ever get to actually see what happens or if this all just simply goes away?  After it’s destroyed the credibility of the us.

[Nat Brooks]

Yep, it's messy. I work for a German company which manufactures products in Germany and distributes to the area I look after, Southeast Asia. Our product has component inputs from a variety of countries around the world and because of this, different countries treat the exact same product in different ways.

We will quote the HS code, which defines 'what it is' but some import clearance houses may interpret a product to fit into a different HS code. Tariffs and duties are typically HS code based from what I understand.

I know enough about this stuff to give me a headache and generally leave it to the lawyers.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/d7cf18d3-4878-4b6d-b825-644ecce24707n%40googlegroups.com.

--

Nat Brooks.

0407 539 737

[Sophie]

I was interested in the same thing, mainly to do with filament. I wondered if I bought filament from china, then designed and printed a toy or product on my 3D printer, then sold it to someone in the US, would it be subject to China fees because the material was originally sourced from China and printed on a Chinese machine, or would it be subject to UK fees because the origin of the product was UK? 

So I looked into it and this is my understanding...

If a UK company designs and manufactures a product, but some parts are sourced from China then it comes down to whether there was Substantial Transformation - Has the product undergone a fundamental change in name, character or use while in the UK?

An example scenario comparison I read, was

1. Basic Assembly in UK:

Chinese components are just bolted together or repackaged in the UK.

Result: Likely still treated as Chinese origin → tariffs apply.

Complex Manufacturing in UK:

Chinese parts are used, but the UK company adds proprietary electronics, software, testing, etc.

Product takes on new identity/functionality.

Result: Likely British origin → UK tariffs (e.g., 20%) apply instead of 145%.

So for my filament based question, significant functionality and change would have happened in the UK once I melt the plastic and turn it into something entirely different. So therefore the product should be considered British. 

So in short it's not completely about where the parts come from, it's what you do with them that also counts?

If you apply that same logic to Prusa XL - 

The Prusa XL 3D printer is designed and assembled in Prague, Czech Republic. I imagine Prusa Research strive to source as many components locally as possible, but it's clear that to make something like a 3D printer anywhere near cost effective, certain parts, like stepper motors and LCD screens, are sourced from China.

But if you were to apply the substantial transformation rule, so if the final product undergoes significant manufacturing processes within the country of Czech (like assembly, programming, or testing), it is considered to originate from that country. In the case of the Prusa XL, since the assembly and significant manufacturing occur in the Czech Republic, surely it would typically be classified as Czech origin.?

Therefore, when importing the Prusa XL into the U.S., it would be subject to the tariff rates applicable to Czech-origin products? Which I have no idea what the tariffs are for Czech.

Despite incorporating some Chinese components, the Prusa XL surely would be considered a Czech-origin product for US customs purposes and would be subject to the corresponding tariff rates?

But they would have to document the transformation process to prove its Czech origin, classify each part and final product using the HTS codes as Nat mentioned...and even then, it's up to import customs to interpret that as they see fit.

But this is just my personal understanding, and as was rightly pointed out by Baggo Bilbins...I'm an engineer and nothing like an economist. Although I really wish they would make these things simpler to understand for people like me who want to dabble in market trade, but not necessarily be an economist/trade/legal expert. I just want my little Etsy shop ya know lol 😂 

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Ok so as I think I see it the purpose of the tariffs are to get us to produce more onshore… or was it to punish the Chinese for producing the chemicals that are used in Fentynal?.. beats the sh*t outta me. Let’s assume the former and not the latter…

Check out this article from Wired about manufacturing in China Vs here:

https://www.wired.com/story/tariffs-small-businesses-why-make-things-in-china/

[Ray Price]

Great article, and I think it is only the tip of the iceberg of how far advanced China is.  When you start hearing of whole regions or clusters of towns dedicated to particular parts of the supply chain or production,  you quickly realize that the rest of the world (including the US) is far behind and really isn't going to be able to catch up because much of it is a cultural thing.  Do you really think the US worker population is going to be at all interested in something like co-locating to a region to work long hours producing <fill in the blank>?  Short answer - Nope,  We had corporate towns in the past, you don't seem them around anymore in any substantial number, and they aren't partnering with anyone else if they do exist.

This "make it here at all costs" mentality is antiquated and relegated to dinosaur brains.  The fact that there are expectations that this all moves onshore essentially overnight is ignorant of reality as well.

You can claim "short term pain" for "long term gain", but what is the honest definition of short term?  that isn't measured in months or even years.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/c6156819-5736-471f-962b-bbd4412cbf51n%40googlegroups.com.

[Bryan Murphy]

My understanding is that if a Chinese company needs a new widget, or circuit board, IC, fixture, etc. they walk down the street (or go to one of the electronics markets) and talk to somebody.  They make a deal on the spot and they have a million of those delivered a week later for a good price.  

That's the infrastructure that we need to rebuild before we can manufacture anything at scale for a decent price and tariffs alone are not going to rebuild that.  That requires long term and sustained investment in services, infrastructure, and education to rebuild what's been systematically gutted for the last 50 years.  Tariffs are only a small piece of the puzzle.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/CAGbEhsA0n%2BEuOut__f%2B5Z1O8P%3Dfwn_93qWf40EPeii12WOUOsw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!!]

Ray - I also have to add - another reason why things are produced Cheaply in China - is their mentality of all China citizens as a Super Cheap source of Labor. That's why USA could never directly compete - as most US Citizens Simply will NOT Work at such a low cost - cause they can NOT Survive in America that way. I bet the equivalent China wages are like $6 hourly - or something Ludicrous like that. 

Just sayin'...

-K

[John Mueller]

It took China decades of pain with the larger gains happening in the late 90s when we moved whole industries worth of tools overseas, I remember entire factories shipping all their equipment to open plants in China. I want to say Germany did something similar with tooling manufacturing.

Some in the clothing industry took huge risks and gutted any chance of ever making anything in the US, had a friend buy a factory and he was so excited. He got a few old looms and nothing more modern than the 1950s vacuum cleaner. I have pictures on slide deck somewhere in my house. Lol

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[Sophie]

Yea that article is an interesting read, and it does all kind of make sense. And they do mention about cheap labour but also that it isn't the be all and end all, which also makes sense.

Have you seen the ai generated memes that are currently running through china making a mockery of the US, in how they will manage all this onshore business. They're just laughing at the USA. Meme

[John Mueller]

I spent a lot of time in Holland as a kid, they were always laughing at us so I learned to ignore it. If we run around worrying about that we end up in the mess to begin with. I like to say worry about your city / business first and don't try to make everyone happy. 5% will always be mad no matter what you do, so if you try to make them happy the other 90% will get mad. 🤣 It is actually taught in first year business classes at university. Going on almost fifty trips around the sun, don't remember a single story from my extended family where they were not laughing at us or calling us the laughing stock of the world. Doesn't matter what administration. I also say who cares, they charge us fees or block our companies from selling, block our software, etc.

I don't know the right answer (somewhere in the middle), but I will say we should worry about ourselves first and making sure we are not restricted from selling something or huge import fees. I go back to Canada, why did we get screwed so bad in the nafta days? In short we didn't want to get laughed at, and we didn't realize they will laugh no matter what. I hope I will be able to sell more into Canada in the next twenty years, or even the UK. It is currently a huge pita, has been for twenty years and based on the calls and emails I track it would improve my bottom line by 20%.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/9ae94875-08a8-4689-b9a5-2f8c65bae7fbn%40googlegroups.com.

[Luke Hartfiel]

Actually Kurt, the average salary for a Chinese worker is slightly more than the equivalent of $50K USD a year. Maybe once they were getting paid peanuts, but that was decades ago. Chinese auto workers make closer to the equivalent of $70K a year. Average wages in China have more than doubled in the last 10 years alone.

The secret to their cheaper prices these days is massive automation. When they build a car, for example, the entire thing goes from sheet metal to a complete, painted car, ready to drive to a truck or ship to go to a customer without humans touching it. The auto workers maintain the robots, and the robots do the actual work.

On 15 Apr 2025, at 6:54 am, Kurt The 3D Printer GUY!! <vr...@optonline.net> wrote:

Ray - I also have to add - another reason why things are produced Cheaply in China - is their mentality of all China citizens as a Super Cheap source of Labor. That's why USA could never directly compete - as most US Citizens Simply will NOT Work at such a low cost - cause they can NOT Survive in America that way. I bet the equivalent China wages are like $6 hourly - or something Ludicrous like that. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/b0ec91fa-650e-4dd1-945e-c00dbbef93ecn%40googlegroups.com.

[Bryan Murphy]

My daughter is taking AP Human Geography, which means I am taking the class as well so I can help her study.  We just covered "agglomeration" last night which feeds into my earlier response on this thread.  From Gemini:

In AP Human Geography, agglomeration refers to the clustering of businesses or industries in a specific location, leading to economic benefits like reduced costs and increased efficiency. This concentration of activity is often tied to resource availability, shared infrastructure, and the development of specialized labor pools. 

Related material: https://library.fiveable.me/key-terms/ap-hug/agglomeration

My point being, it's not just automation (although that is certainly a big component).  It's way bigger than that.  They can automate because they have the infrastructure to automate and the expertise to do it and it's all local and it's all available today.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/3d-printing-tips--tricks/E41E4B45-7BAB-43D1-B32F-6C80970A1102%40gmail.com.

[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

The concept is not foreign to the US. Remember Detroit was where the US made cars, steel in Pittsburgh, the Bay Area was where processors and info tech was developed and made. Perhaps this aspect of production is more impactful than many have thought. 

[Bryan Murphy]

Agreed, Silicon Valley + Tech is another great example, or Biotech in Boston, Finance in NYC, etc.  But we're not going to rebuild our missing manufacturing capabilities in all these other industries by tariffs alone.  We need to invest and build the foundation and I fear some of this tarif chaos (particularly tariffs on manufacturing and electronic equipment) will undermine the very investment we should be making.

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[Ray Price]

Silicon Valley / Boston / NYC / + Research Triangle in NC, are all great, current examples of how this works and examples of what plays best to the US -- Research and Innovation.  I don't think a whole lot of hardcore manufacturing occurs in those areas.  The research and innovation results in services, and when manufacturing is required, that probably gets outsourced to the world where it makes the most sense.

Secondly, let's say we do go hard over on restoring manufacturing in the US.  I  suspect we will be marketing to a country of 1 -- ourselves.  Are we ever going to catch up / be competitive with China and other locations in the world where they've been honing their manufacturing infrastructure for decades?  Short answer - No.  So, we are going to be limiting our market, since the rest of these locations aren't going to stop / slow their own innovation so we can catch up, and they'll  be beating us to selling into the rest of the world.  So, in the interest of hubris, and not really wanting to solve the global trade problem, we are limiting our own potential and restricting our market. 

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[Baggo Bilbins]

Ray,

Only if we don't differentiate.  Agglomeration will quickly happen on its own once we absorb the small differences in cost recouped by tariffs, and take our children out of schools that teach nothing but self-loathing.  One thing is very clear to me: we can't go much further down the lonely service economy road.  And goodbye 'landfill economy.'

https://charleshughsmith.blogspot.com/2025/04/last-gasp-of-landfill-economy.html

Very good points on agglomeration and automation.  We also can't move back to 1970.  One silver lining: most of us here can make our own cheap plastic junk.

-Baggo

[John Mueller]

It is amazing how badly we have ruined our schools, had my oldest in private school and it was two to three grades ahead of public depending on the subject. We should copy Norway or Holland, I remember in the later around a certain grade 3rd or 4th you would take an aptitude test and get placed in a school or classes that best fit what you wanted. One cousin went towards medical, ended up in medical journalism oddly. The other wanted to drive trash trucks and ended up owning pet stores. Lol

I attended class for two weeks on vacation and the whole school switched to English for that period, good fun. I still can't spell happy birthday in Dutch.

Off subject but reminded me of life! 

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[3D Printing Tips and Tricks]

Another effect of the increased costs may also be the end of the throw-away mentality which is tied to hyper-marketing as well as the low production costs from China. Hype drives the masses to buy the latest smartphone when in reality these devices can and should last a lot longer. The increased costs may easily make that whole hyper fast retail approach a nonstarter for a lot of markets not just phones. Video gaming, musical instruments, appliances, clothing... and tons of others... all hyper marketed and hyper produced, gotta have products at an increasingly fast pace. This will likely stop now. People will be more likely to hold on to an item for as long as possible to get the most out of it. There will be a lot less of us out there that will be able to afford the latest and greatest every year. In turn that will slow down the development cycles for all products and as such put pressure on producers to find other profit centers such as replacement parts, maintenance and other upkeep elements. and...

I very much agree with Neil's comment. 3D printing may indeed become the singular optimal way to get inexpensive, low-value plastic objects.

[LukeH]

So I had a look on the BambuLabs site yesterday, and the H2Dis now about $500 USD more expensive in the USA than it is in Australia (after adjusting for exchange rates, which suggests that BambuLabs have elected to eat most of the tariffs themselves (and that the margin on the same printer in Australia is wild).