Wheel bearing spacers

[s n]

Hello distant friends.  Does anybody have a set of the spacers that install between the wheel bearings on the hubs?   I have a 13 spacer and believe that I need more thickness, thus a larger number....I am working on the preload now, and it is quite tight.  

[mfel...@gmail.com]

This is not direct help for acquiring a new spacers, but this may help and for future reference as well.  Although I know you have been on the group for a long time, so you probably already know all this as well!

Dan Roy with the PDF on setting these:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZGKRxw_bcqeOUPlkM2yOoDmYD3kne0fv/view

Also there was a lot of talk about the thickness of the bearings varying between manufacturers, and also within the same manufacturer.

Was indicated that the OEM SKFs were not toleranced correctly and is the reason why the varying spacers are needed on the BFs.

Keep the spacers with the Knuckles and should be able to be reused over and over with the correct bearings according to old posts. (the spacer does not follow the hubs).

On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 2:25 PM 's n' via 323gtx <323...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Hello distant friends.  Does anybody have a set of the spacers that install between the wheel bearings on the hubs?   I have a 13 spacer and believe that I need more thickness, thus a larger number....I am working on the preload now, and it is quite tight.  

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[s n]

Thanks, I will read that link.  I am reusing the same spacers that came out of the hubs, and that is why there are bearing issues, they are too tight.  There is supposed to be like 10 inch pounds or so as rotating, starting torque, according to manual.  Way tighter than that right now....I will read the link and get back on here.  Thank you for posting this.  PS, I bought the car this way, so trying to do it right!  :)

[nowi...@yahoo.com]

Daniel, thank you for reaching out.  I did not buy one of your jigs, and just looking at your write up now….

 

I need one of those to do this correctly.  I just used a through bold and thick washers, no hub turned down. 

 

I actually have to head out to storage right now and move another car…LOL, the nice white one.  This is for my roach black car.

 

Just squishing the bearings a little with the bolt and thick washers the bearings are too tight, and that is not a heavy through torque.

 

I will get back.  If you have a jig kit, I may buy it…LOL

 

Steve

 

From: Daniel Roy <danr...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2024 2:28 PM
To: s n <nowi...@yahoo.com>
Cc: 323gtx <323...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: 323GTX Group Wheel bearing spacers

 

I have a bunch. Let me look at my stash and I will let you know what numbers I have. The tough thing will be to determine which one you need.

 

Do you have some kind of preload jig to test them, like the ones I made and sold to a few people here? I may have sold you one, I don't remember all people I sold them to.

 

Dan

 

Le mer. 6 nov. 2024 à 14:25, 's n' via 323gtx <323...@googlegroups.com> a écrit :

Hello distant friends.  Does anybody have a set of the spacers that install between the wheel bearings on the hubs?   I have a 13 spacer and believe that I need more thickness, thus a larger number....I am working on the preload now, and it is quite tight.  

--

[mfel...@gmail.com]

Also, just throwing this out there, and someone please correct me if incorrect, but 
https://www.jimellismazdaparts.com/products/mazda/323/SPACER--BEARING/1819917/B00133041.html
 looks like the spacer PNs are incremented in the first part of the pn
b001, b002, b003...etc.

I am guessing one of the veterans with a clearer mind on this will chime in.

Good luck and cheers.

Mark

Indy

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[Daniel Roy]

Steve,

Are you checking the torque with the final assembly including seals? Seals will increase the turning resistance by a lot. Also, once you have assembled the knuckle, if you press the hub out again there is no good way to reassemble it and have the outer seal inserted correctly. Read my instructions and you will see. That's why you need the jig to do this correctly.

I'll get back to you with which spacers I have and about a jig. I have also been known to rebuild knuckles for others... Depends on where you are as shipping is expensive for those heavy parts. I also have knuckles on hand ready to rebuild.

Mark, I never had to buy new spacers but yes this is how they are numbered.

Dan

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/323gtx/CAFLaGaajeNp-qXpRz2LLxwrUr7AYGX%2BXUWgxYQG4O7f-8RYE-A%40mail.gmail.com.

[Fantastic Yahoo]

Daniel. No I did not put the seals in as I am first checking the rotation. I made a cheap but incorrect quickie test jig using the service manual direction to check the 10inch lbs force on the bearing itself as I don’t have a fish scale handy. Check the attached video. The washers are on the bearing inner race not the outer, and hand torqued to only about 20 ft lbs or so due to bending. And the drag is high.  Now the bearings are not packed they are dry. I didn’t see in the FSM where it dictates wet or dry for the checks.  I believe I have a junk CV axle end in storage but I am loathe to ruin a good GTX hub that matches a second full set of uprights/hubs/bearings that I got from Bob. 

See attached hopes it comes through. 

[Daniel Roy]

Hi Steve,

I always grease the bearings, I just don't pack the knuckle cavity with grease as you'd do on final assembly.

There was no sound in the video but yeah this looks tight. It normally spins better than this torqued to 145ft-lb in my jig. I would begin by retesting with grease.

How are the bores where the outer bearing races go? Any signs of the races spinning in the bores? Is the shoulder between the 2 bores clean and undamaged? This shoulder thickness and the bearings assembled thickness is what determines the spacer thickness. Usually, with quality bearings, if the shoulder in the knuckle is in good shape and hasn't lost thickness (usually due to spinning outer races) the original spacer will work or what I observed is that there was a little play that I could remove by careful sanding of the spacer.

If the knuckle is in good shape and you have good name brand bearings then it is most likely that the spacers have been mixed up. It is also important the the outer races have a press fit 

I once bought a junk GTX parts car where all wheel bearings were rough and some of them had NO spacers in the assemblies... Some "mechanics" just don't know what they're doing...

Dan

Le jeu. 7 nov. 2024 à 10:25, Fantastic Yahoo <nowi...@yahoo.com> a écrit :

Daniel. No I did not put the seals in as I am first checking the rotation. I made a cheap but incorrect quickie test jig using the service manual direction to check the 10inch lbs force on the bearing itself as I don’t have a fish scale handy. Check the attached video. The washers are on the bearing inner race not the outer, and hand torqued to only about 20 ft lbs or so due to bending. And the drag is high.  Now the bearings are not packed they are dry. I didn’t see in the FSM where it dictates wet or dry for the checks.  I believe I have a junk CV axle end in storage but I am loathe to ruin a good GTX hub that matches a second full set of uprights/hubs/bearings that I got from Bob. 

See attached hopes it comes through. 

Thank you, Steve.

via device - excuse errors. 

On Nov 6, 2024, at 3:08 PM, Daniel Roy <danr...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[nowi...@yahoo.com]

Daniel, to answer your questions quickly.

 

Bores show no signs of spun bearing outer races. And the ledge surface is clean and looks like machined OEM surface.

 

I have cleaned the knuckle, however, I will push out the inner races again, and run my pick tool in the crotch of where bearing sits. Then reassemble, test again.

 

For the video, I already went up “one thickness” spacer that I borrowed from the other side…

 

I am using Timken 11 bearings, and stamped “made in USA” however I don’t believe anything anymore.  But bearings came directly from Timken via Amazon if that is to believed.

 

In the video, I did not talk, so no reason for audio, lol.

 

So after I clean the crotch area with the pick tool, and put back together, I will know if there was some rust in there, or it was clean and someone botched the job before. 

 

I will get to it later today, work is getting in the way.

 

 

 

From: 323...@googlegroups.com <323...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Daniel Roy
Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2024 11:04 AM
To: Fantastic Yahoo <nowi...@yahoo.com>
Cc: 323gtx <323...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: 323GTX Group Wheel bearing spacers

 

Hi Steve,

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/323gtx/CAPT1ejmTV9zkpF5BjgDyjSp5TFTEi%3Do8SCW%2Bv6o5aH_2jRxhfw%40mail.gmail.com.

[mfel...@gmail.com]

Sorry, not to go too far OT - Timken via Amazon.  Hrmm....Honestly I have received counterfeits (NGK iridium) from Rock Auto...I think these were returns or closeouts though TBH.

But since then I actually have gone through the dealer since I know their supply chain will be 100% direct from the manufacturer.

Timken is one of the highly counterfeited items.

Not saying yours are counterfeit.  Just a warning to all and others and my experience with Rock Auto whom I have been using for almost 20 years now and I do not believe this is normal for them unless someone returned them, or wherever they 'bought' the closeout items were the source of the counterfeits.

Cheers,

Mark

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/323gtx/0f5a01db3132%24a7351000%24f59f3000%24%40yahoo.com.

[Daniel Roy]

Mark,

You make me nervous with my latest Rockauto purchases! AFAIK, the Timken bearings I bought there all had correct preload with the original spacers so I'm pretty confident they a the genuine thing.

Steve, I will get back to you this weekend on available spacers and about making you a jig if you're interested.

Dan

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[s n]

Here is an update on my rear bearings.  Daniel, thank you for the great information and tips on this job.  It has been 30 plus years since I have done this...and it really isn't that bad to do, just rusty, dirty and greasy....

I have everything back together, with a few howevers.  The issue that I had must have been that I did not seat the races deep enough in the knuckle so I used the press to ensure that per Daniel's direction. Or I had the spacer slightly "off center" in my hack-kneyed bearing so called fixture and the spacer was touching the top of the bearing cage itself, causing the drag.  I actually had to sand the #14 down to make it a #13 spacer, and could have gone a little more if need be, but it is together and good to go.

I want to stress to everyone about the inner bearing seals.  Online parts disinformation will sell you a National oil seal that fits, however, the metal portion of the National seal is too short in height.  As well, and most important, the Rubber seal portion is ALSO too short in height.  I noticed this car did not have OEM Mazda seals, and without the seal properly contacting the outer Axle joint polished surface, snow, water, dirt and sand had a much greater chance of destruction - and for sure it did.  My car  was a TSD or play car, and with the rocker damage that it had (and I repaired) likely sat in a creek or swamp one evening before it could get pulled out - or so it seemed. None the less, I have to order the correct OEM seals and replace the inner seals which is no big deal to do on the car.  

Mark, my parts manual has the spacers listed with the part numbers matching the number on the spacer, so you are correct.  

Daniel, I couldn't find a spare axle to turn down, however, If I indeed had one for the job, the spacer will for sure be in the correct alignment with the bearings and had not been an issue. 

I also measured my Tiimken 11 bearing races, and the knuckle ridge where the races seat into, and there is consistency on the races and the ridge itself on the machining process from the Mazda supplier.  FWIW.  

Thanks all for the help, and if there is a spare junk axle hub out there, I will buy one to turn down and make a fixture tool.

[s n]

[Daniel Roy]

Great you were able solve the issue and that my instructions were of help to you!

I can make you (or anybody else listening) a jig, last time I sold them for $50USD, I’ll keep that price. They come complete with a big bolt and thick washer. I have a few old hubs still so I can make one if interested. I machine them square so they are easier to grip in a vise. 

Dan

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/323gtx/5418bb7d-71ae-4105-97f2-ef72e21dc0bdn%40googlegroups.com.

[s n]

Daniel, I will take one for sure!  Can I pay pal you friends and family money?  Let me know - I will send a separate email just to you to take care of details!

[nowi...@yahoo.com]

Mazda OEM B210-33-065 seal on the left.

National Oil Seal 225220 on the right. 

 

Mazda seal NLA.

 

We are screwed except for some home grown engineering….

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[Daniel Roy]

Have you tried the CV joint on the seal? AFAIK the inner lip is touching the CV joint OD and the outer lip (which is really a dust seal) was still touching the pressed on flange on the CV joint last time I checked. I will check the seals I have on my car and the new ones I have in stock (I don't remember which brand I bought last time).

Dan

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[Fantastic Yahoo]

The dust seal is t doing its job. And that’s what I found on this car lots of muddy grease and sand in this area seen in the photo - where polished axle cv surface is….

Thank you, Steve.

via device - excuse errors. 

On Nov 12, 2024, at 3:21 PM, Daniel Roy <danr...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Daniel Roy]

I think I had bought Timken branded seal when I did the bearings on my car, but as it’s been something like 18 years I’m not sure anymore. They touch the axle. 

The new ones I have here in stock are BCA brand #NS4990. The lip is 6mm high. How high are the lips on yours?

Dan