cams to crank timing seems off

[michael reichert]

Since replacing the water pump last summer, the engine seems to have unusually low torque until about 4000 rpm. This is with timing set based on the FSM numbers and using a timing light. 

I advanced the timing about 10 degrees and found a noticeable improvement but I would like to fix this problem. 

With the timing mark on the pulley set at 0 degrees against the timing mark on the plastic cover the intake and exhaust cams seem to be advanced by about one half tooth which is approximately 4 degrees based on my count of teeth around the cam gears and then dividing by two since they rotate at half the speed of the crank. This means the spark would be effectively 4 degrees retarded relative to the crank. This mostly makes sense as the retarded spark would tend to provide less power at the lower engine rpm. Also, both the exhaust and intake cam timing marks line up accurately to the marks on the metal backing plate which the plastic timing cover attaches to.

What is the exact method for lining up the cams  with the backing plate? the cam gears have an E and an I marked on both of them, I am referencing the slight groove at the front of each cam gear and next to the E and I versus the point of the triangular arrow mark on the backing cover plate.

I am not sure what to do next. If it was off by a tooth that would be straight forward to fix. But it seems I need to choose between +4 degrees or -4 degrees. If I want to fix the problem by cam to crank timing. But that seems like an incomplete fix. 

If I leave the timing belt alone and return it to correct timing as described the FSM, then I am losing notable power down low. But the second question is what will this do to emissions? I am in San Jose, CA and so need to pass smog by the first week of March. My gut feel is that if the timing is retarded an actual four degrees, it will probably not make much difference for the low rpm tests they do for smog.  The last thing I want is to have the car designated a gross polluter and then end up having to spend significant time and money or even losing the car. 

Also the 4 degrees retarded  based on cam location versus 10 degrees observed by distributor rotation is a significant difference. Of course, it might be that the 10 degrees based on distributor rotation might just be providing even more advance than stock which is a typical simple tuner  modification. 

I Would appreciate any thoughts on this. 

[Bob Martin]

What’s the condition of your crank nose? Has the slot been widened by the dreaded wobble? 

My second thought is to get a set of adjustable cam gears. That would let you dial out the discrepancy.

Bob

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On Feb 16, 2026, at 12:26 AM, 'michael reichert' via 323gtx <323...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Daniel Roy]

My thought too. I would look at the crank pulley to see if the keyway is in good condition before trying anything else.

Dan

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[Nate Kappen]

Keep in mind the harmonic dampener can slip as well, so the timing marks on the pulley might not be correct any longer.  This of course would mean the timing marks on the cams/crank would line up when you install the belt, but when you set base timing with the light that could be off if it has slipped.  You might also make sure your mechanical advance in the distributor is working as expected.

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[Joel Sass]

I had the crank wobble on my previous engine. The timing always seemed to change, and wasn't predictable at all. Sometimes it would feel amazing, sometimes it felt like I was towing a boat. One thing that I found did solve some issues: I replaced a worn out timing belt. It had apparently stretched quite a bit, and eventually broke. Thankfully the engine is non-interference.

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[Bob Martin]

That could be it. Seems to fit the facts as presented.

Bob

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On Feb 16, 2026, at 2:27 PM, Joel Sass <sass...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Terrence McGrew]

I've experienced both the harmonic balancer and nose keyway problems at different times because I have the worst luck in the world for some reason.

[michael reichert]

Thanks for all of the inputs and insights. This has got to be the best "forum" on the internet.

I looked really carefully at the crank pulleys on the front of the engine and could not observe any wobble. But it might not be bad enough to see visibly at this point.

But based on the consensus opinion, I am going to set the timing back to factory, get it smogged and then dig deeper  into the problem. Main reason being is that if it is wobble and will thus keep getting worse, I should smog it now and then I have two years to fix it hassle free.

Historically, I had an 85 dodge colt that developed crank wobble and I had to replace the engine, so I am anticipating that in this case. But at this point, it would be an engine rebuild or partial rebuild.

Mike R

[Joel Sass]

Please keep us updated!

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[michael reichert]

Just passed smog. So I can start to give some attention to this problem.