data intercept and change bill

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Sep 8, 2021, 12:17:24 AM9/8/21
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Funny how we only hear about this stuff from overseas
internet users, and not a word of it pops up on our own
domestic news feeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40tCIpahLMQ

Numerous overseas news agencies have coined the phrase
"Australia started as a prison colony, and now they have
gone full circle to become one again"

Apparently to everywhere but Australia (with the possible
exception of sky news which has degraded to a level not much
better than infowars)

Victoria: permit required just to leave your house for work
South Australia: random smart phone digital checks app that
requires a citizen to verify their location with facial
recognition within 15 minutes or face arrest
NSW/VIC: workers thrown out of work sites for not having a
vaccination card - yet there are up to 80 day waiting lists
to GET vaccinations - which means most of these workers may
well find themself homeless and unemployed by the time they
are vaccinated.

Australia wide: in addition to the much abused META data
Australia wide wiretap, authorities, with no oversight
incidentally, as of 31 august, have the power to intercept,
alter, seize, take over or shut down any Australian citizens
social media, email or data.

Fun times..

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Turnbull: Actually 10MBs is enough for the average household really.
Abbott/Turnbull: It is cheaper to put in FTTN, you get up to 24mbs/down and 256k up.. we can upgrade it more later...

Sid E

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Sep 9, 2021, 8:26:27 AM9/9/21
to 2600-australia

Awww cmon man, it's not THAT bad

We're allowed out for an hour a day, inside a 5km radius, between 5am and 9pm, as long as we're alone.

Also the new bill is called the "Identify and Disrupt Bill" (I think?), sure it allows the government to send dick pics on your behalf, or plant evidence on your devices. But it's for your safety!

Nothing to see here, move along, it's for your own good........

.....

.....

.

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Sid E

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Sep 9, 2021, 9:46:10 AM9/9/21
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I don't know what's more of a problem

- Obviously exploitable government powers being handed out like it's free cake

- The fact that no one else in a group of "hackers" who care about freedom of information and personal privacy, didn't bother saying shit.

When your local shitposter is the only person agreeing that these new totalitarian laws are bullshit, we are living in the age of complacency.

How scared of freedoms are people?

Jason Xiros

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Sep 9, 2021, 6:57:34 PM9/9/21
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Fuck me. Circle this day on the calendar... I find myself agreeing somewhat with Sid.

These new laws are getting zero coverage in mainstream media. At this stage it may be too late to change things, but we can still do our part to educate family and friends. REMIND them why privacy is important. REMIND them of good practices (password managers, MFA, VPN, TOR)


Kind regards,

Jason




On 9 Sep 2021, at 11:46 PM, Sid E <side...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't know what's more of a problem

- Obviously exploitable government powers being handed out like it's free cake

- The fact that no one else in a group of "hackers" who care about freedom of information and personal privacy, didn't bother saying shit.

When your local shitposter is the only person agreeing that these new totalitarian laws are bullshit, we are living in the age of complacency.

How scared of freedoms are people?



On 9 Sep 2021 10:26 pm, "Sid E" <side...@gmail.com> wrote:

Awww cmon man, it's not THAT bad

We're allowed out for an hour a day, inside a 5km radius, between 5am and 9pm, as long as we're alone.

Also the new bill is called the "Identify and Disrupt Bill" (I think?), sure it allows the government to send dick pics on your behalf, or plant evidence on your devices. But it's for your safety!

Nothing to see here, move along, it's for your own good........

.....


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David Fernée

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Sep 9, 2021, 7:39:52 PM9/9/21
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Not sure if anyone read this one when it came out: Little Brother (Doctorow novel) - Wikipedia.

It can be downloaded from here if interested: Download Little Brother For Free | Cory Doctorow's craphound.com.

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Sep 10, 2021, 2:39:39 AM9/10/21
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Incidentally this is the article the guy in the video link I
posted is reading..  funny tho, could have sworn I linked it
too in a reply too but cant see it.. maybe i am being paranoid..

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/

Here is a general editorial on the subject above too -
https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/politics/the-atlantic-australia-traded-away-too-much-liberty/98090519/

Also vaguely related on the vaccine side of the topic and in
part relevant to our 2600 US analogues is this link too -
tho less topical on the fact our government can mess with
out shit since August 31 -
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/vaccines-konstantin-kisin

'That's just not right'

On 9/09/2021 11:46 pm, Sid E wrote:
>
> I don't know what's more of a problem
>
> - Obviously exploitable government powers being handed out
> like it's free cake
>
> - The fact that no one else in a group of "hackers" who
> care about freedom of information and personal privacy,
> didn't bother saying shit.
>
> When your local shitposter is the only person agreeing
> that these new totalitarian laws are bullshit, we are
> living in the age of complacency.
>
> How scared of freedoms are people?
>
>

--
New and improved 2600... well.. ..we drew on some flames and polished it a bit..
--
Google - making sure, life is no more, than 1984...
--
Abbott: We need to pass these extra nation wide surveillance laws as soon as possible, we can fix the issues with the scope later..
--
Adolf Hitler: And so by voting to appoint me high chancelor and to dissolve parliment you vote for a stronger germany, for stong industry and jobs for all.. we can worry about the finer details later..
Adolf Hitler: Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise.
--
Joseph Goebbels: If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal
enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
--
In politics - Later never happens.

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Sep 10, 2021, 3:11:51 AM9/10/21
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You know sh*t is bad when friendlyjordies takes time from
his precious schedule of mario shit talking to do a video
about it too -
only 10 days late..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U49pq-Ctf_A


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Abbott: I am sick of being told I am violating human rights.

Sid E

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Sep 10, 2021, 4:26:52 AM9/10/21
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You know shits bad when jordies can't blame the PM because the party he shills for also support the laws.....

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Sep 13, 2021, 8:43:27 PM9/13/21
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Just to keep dialogue open on this topic... thought I'd
throw some random shit out there -

The media has in a few occasions made reference to "minority
report" a dystopian thriller in regard to Australia.  Not
sure how many of them actually watched it (to be honest
sounds more like they are mixing it up with gataca given the
contexts used)   but unlike the rest of the world (with the
possible exception of a few open ended provisions of the US
patriot act) Australia actually DOES have a "minority
report" class law. Two I know of, and since I only chanced
on these by accident, probably a lot more.

I expect it was passed as another indirect over arching
authoritarian power for Duttons omni-department portfolio of
immigration, border protection, off shore detention, navy,
anti-terrorism and secret police.. but this one was passed
less than 5 years ago as i recall, and was tacked on to
veterans affairs.

In a nutshell, any returned serviceman, or soon to be
returned serviceman can without any evidence, any mark on
his record, or any other sign of problems be picked up and
locked up indefinitely under psychiatric supervision forever
- if the designated person for the veterans affairs
portfolio expresses even the slightest concern that "one day
he might have a suicidal thought in the future"    and yes
it is that open ended, or was when I reviewed the provisions
last.  What on earth could you use it for? Well considering
Dutton has been caught (and covered up) giving orders that
cause the sinking of refugee boats in international waters,
likely it would allow soldiers ordered to do war crimes and
human rights abuses to be locked up before they can tell
anyone.  (We all know just how much our government hates
whistleblowers eh?)

Oh the other law is some open ended shit more or less the
same as the one old friendlyjordies got a taste of when some
goons beat up his producer - a politician can designate
without evidence any citizen they like to be picked up
(forever) if that politician expresses concern they may one
day become a national security and/or terrorism risk.  (even
if they are not one yet, nor show any sign of inclinations
that way yet, and their only crime might have been wearing a
turban while delivering the newspaper to their house)

..and lets not forget everyone's favourite law - in
Australia, any sort of encryption process is legally
required to have some mathematically impossible backdoor
that allows reading everything encoded using it.    Hasn't
really effected international services - but it does
effectively mean the secure communications industry in
Australia has been shut down.

Oh and the NDA covered up fact that all new ISPS in
Australia are legally required to supply a government
backdoor to all their users private data.

No Doubt ol Nitr0 boy Sid can list off a dozen more I forgot
about.

Has everyone in Australia fallen asleep, or just forgotten
how to read?  How this shit even get passed ill never
understand. (ye ye, because no civil rights document heard
that too. Apparently Qld and Vic actually does have an
albeit crude document of civil right "guidelines"  but it is
not federal, and pretty flimsy)



New and improved 2600... well.. ..we drew on some flames and polished it a bit..
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Google - making sure, life is no more, than 1984...
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Sid E

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Sep 19, 2021, 8:18:10 AM9/19/21
to 2600-australia

And no one dared
Disturb the sound, of silence

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David Fernée

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Sep 19, 2021, 8:23:27 AM9/19/21
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On Sun, 19 Sept 2021 at 22:18, Sid E <side...@gmail.com> wrote:

And no one dared
Disturb the sound, of silence

On 14 Sep 2021 10:43 am, "ad...@reviews.wox.org" <ad...@reviews.wox.org> wrote:
Just to keep dialogue open on this topic... thought I'd throw some random shit out there -

The media has in a few occasions made reference to "minority report" a dystopian thriller in regard to Australia.  Not sure how many of them actually watched it (to be honest sounds more like they are mixing it up with gataca given the contexts used)   but unlike the rest of the world (with the possible exception of a few open ended provisions of the US patriot act) Australia actually DOES have a "minority report" class law. Two I know of, and since I only chanced on these by accident, probably a lot more.

I expect it was passed as another indirect over arching authoritarian power for Duttons omni-department portfolio of immigration, border protection, off shore detention, navy, anti-terrorism and secret police.. but this one was passed less than 5 years ago as i recall, and was tacked on to veterans affairs.

In a nutshell, any returned serviceman, or soon to be returned serviceman can without any evidence, any mark on his record, or any other sign of problems be picked up and locked up indefinitely under psychiatric supervision forever - if the designated person for the veterans affairs portfolio expresses even the slightest concern that "one day he might have a suicidal thought in the future"    and yes it is that open ended, or was when I reviewed the provisions last.  What on earth could you use it for? Well considering Dutton has been caught (and covered up) giving orders that cause the sinking of refugee boats in international waters, likely it would allow soldiers ordered to do war crimes and human rights abuses to be locked up before they can tell anyone.  (We all know just how much our government hates whistleblowers eh?)

Oh the other law is some open ended shit more or less the same as the one old friendlyjordies got a taste of when some goons beat up his producer - a politician can designate without evidence any citizen they like to be picked up (forever) if that politician expresses concern they may one day become a national security and/or terrorism risk.  (even if they are not one yet, nor show any sign of inclinations that way yet, and their only crime might have been wearing a turban while delivering the newspaper to their house)

..and lets not forget everyone's favourite law - in Australia, any sort of encryption process is legally required to have some mathematically impossible backdoor that allows reading everything encoded using it.    Hasn't really effected international services - but it does effectively mean the secure communications industry in Australia has been shut down.

Oh and the NDA covered up fact that all new ISPS in Australia are legally required to supply a government backdoor to all their users private data.

No Doubt ol Nitr0 boy Sid can list off a dozen more I forgot about.

Has everyone in Australia fallen asleep, or just forgotten how to read?  How this shit even get passed ill never understand. (ye ye, because no civil rights document heard that too. Apparently Qld and Vic actually does have an albeit crude document of civil right "guidelines"  but it is not federal, and pretty flimsy)



New and improved 2600... well..  ..we drew on some flames and polished it a bit..
--
Google - making sure, life is no more, than 1984...
--
In politics - Later never happens.

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Sid E

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Sep 19, 2021, 8:51:33 AM9/19/21
to 2600-australia

We were warned.

They warned us in Books.
They warned us in Movies and TV.
They warned us in the media!
They warned us with history.

We let the government do this to us.

Tinfoil hat wearing infowars fans have been saying this would happen for 20+ years.

You want your freedoms and privacy back? You better be ready to make allies with people you disagree with, or you're not getting shit.

Remember they went for THEM first before coming for YOU later - and who is going to be there to speak up for you?

On 19 Sep 2021 10:23 pm, "David Fernée" <dave....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Sept 2021 at 22:18, Sid E <side...@gmail.com> wrote:

And no one dared
Disturb the sound, of silence

On 14 Sep 2021 10:43 am, "ad...@reviews.wox.org" <ad...@reviews.wox.org> wrote:
Just to keep dialogue open on this topic... thought I'd throw some random shit out there -

The media has in a few occasions made reference to "minority report" a dystopian thriller in regard to Australia.  Not sure how many of them actually watched it (to be honest sounds more like they are mixing it up with gataca given the contexts used)   but unlike the rest of the world (with the possible exception of a few open ended provisions of the US patriot act) Australia actually DOES have a "minority report" class law. Two I know of, and since I only chanced on these by accident, probably a lot more.

I expect it was passed as another indirect over arching authoritarian power for Duttons omni-department portfolio of immigration, border protection, off shore detention, navy, anti-terrorism and secret police.. but this one was passed less than 5 years ago as i recall, and was tacked on to veterans affairs.

In a nutshell, any returned serviceman, or soon to be returned serviceman can without any evidence, any mark on his record, or any other sign of problems be picked up and locked up indefinitely under psychiatric supervision forever - if the designated person for the veterans affairs portfolio expresses even the slightest concern that "one day he might have a suicidal thought in the future"    and yes it is that open ended, or was when I reviewed the provisions last.  What on earth could you use it for? Well considering Dutton has been caught (and covered up) giving orders that cause the sinking of refugee boats in international waters, likely it would allow soldiers ordered to do war crimes and human rights abuses to be locked up before they can tell anyone.  (We all know just how much our government hates whistleblowers eh?)

Oh the other law is some open ended shit more or less the same as the one old friendlyjordies got a taste of when some goons beat up his producer - a politician can designate without evidence any citizen they like to be picked up (forever) if that politician expresses concern they may one day become a national security and/or terrorism risk.  (even if they are not one yet, nor show any sign of inclinations that way yet, and their only crime might have been wearing a turban while delivering the newspaper to their house)

..and lets not forget everyone's favourite law - in Australia, any sort of encryption process is legally required to have some mathematically impossible backdoor that allows reading everything encoded using it.    Hasn't really effected international services - but it does effectively mean the secure communications industry in Australia has been shut down.

Oh and the NDA covered up fact that all new ISPS in Australia are legally required to supply a government backdoor to all their users private data.

No Doubt ol Nitr0 boy Sid can list off a dozen more I forgot about.

Has everyone in Australia fallen asleep, or just forgotten how to read?  How this shit even get passed ill never understand. (ye ye, because no civil rights document heard that too. Apparently Qld and Vic actually does have an albeit crude document of civil right "guidelines"  but it is not federal, and pretty flimsy)



New and improved 2600... well..  ..we drew on some flames and polished it a bit..
--
Google - making sure, life is no more, than 1984...
--
In politics - Later never happens.

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Sep 19, 2021, 10:34:26 PM9/19/21
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Even theconversation mentioned it now.

https://theconversation.com/facebook-or-twitter-posts-can-now-be-quietly-modified-by-the-government-under-new-surveillance-laws-167263

Bad enough metadata laws, and highway patrol car lookups
were misused a staggering 100+ times in 2019, mostly by
bored civil servants and police to look up hot girls details.
Now they can sign on their social meda and look at their
private titty pics too, read their cybersex chats, or go on
facebook and click add on their creepy ass selves too.

I'm sorry wasn't there meant to be some virus going around
or something..?  i forget. *insert tumbleweeds here*

--
New and improved 2600... well.. ..we drew on some flames and polished it a bit..
--
Google - making sure, life is no more, than 1984...
--

Abbott: I stopped the boats, they deserve to be locked up as terrorists.
Abbott: I am sick of being told I am violating human rights.
Abbott: We need to pass these extra nation wide surveillance laws as soon as possible, we can fix the issues with the scope later..
--
Adolf Hitler: And so by voting to appoint me high chancelor and to dissolve parliment you vote for a stronger germany, for stong industry and jobs for all.. we can worry about the finer details later..
Adolf Hitler: Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise.
--
Joseph Goebbels: If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal
enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Brendan Clarke

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Sep 19, 2021, 11:56:44 PM9/19/21
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The Science Party and since I am a federal candidate are promoting this.
In the midst of actively sabotaging minor parties, the government has passed the Identify and Disrupt Bill 2021. This bill gives unprecedented powers to police and intelligence agencies to either hack or log into your Email, your Facebook, or any other account, and not only view it but alter it however they want.
They can send emails on your behalf, they can post things on your behalf, they can engage in criminal activity on your behalf in order to reach their objective. If compliance is requested from an Australian citizen and they refuse, the consequences include jail time.
Minor parties are often the most vocal whistle-blowers on terrible government policy and abuses of power. Now they've placed most of those parties in a position where they're distracted and scrambling to survive. It should appear to be no accident that this bill was passed at almost exactly the same time. They are using the opportunity to pass terrible legislation with as little outcry as possible.
What can you do?
1. Join a minor party today to bolster democracy!
2. Join the getup campaign: https://me.getup.org.au/.../repeal-the-identify-and...
3. Vote for minor parties, and preference both major parties last.
Together we can restore integrity to our democracy.
We need your support to stay registered and bring critical thinking to parliament! Sign up as a member right now so we can keep fighting for good government.
May be an image of text that says 'We need your support to bring critical thinking to parliament! + Signing Up: 1 min Membership only takes a minute and costs nothing. AEC Verification: 2 mins AEC may contact you to verify your membership. Supporting Democracy: Priceless Under new legislation, emerging parties must triple their membership or be deregistered. SCIENCE PARTY scienceparty.org.au/joir scienceparty Authorised by James, Science Party, Enmore'

Kind regards
Brendan Clarke.

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Sep 20, 2021, 12:31:27 AM9/20/21
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Well in the interest of even handedness.  whatever is left of the clubX sex party, and the Australian pirate part are also pro-civil liberty anti-police state too.

How many candidates do the science party have?   Since we cant exactly throw the current government out, the governor general who has that power is now as crooked at the rest of them - I have to wonder if all the little civil liberty parties between them have enough members combined to create enough for a coalition big enough to form a functional majority government?

This two party nonsense has been allowed to go on for too long. The only good thing labour did this century was the FTTP nbn, and that was immediately sabotaged by the liberals who only won power by misuse of the preferential voting system to begin with.   Neither of them could be trusted to run a bath,  let alone a country at this point.     Even with a bath they sold all the water rights to international companies already, causing an artificial drought the last 20 years. Hardly a glowing reference for their CV's.

Both of the two are as bad as each other, labour passed a bunch of minor knee jerk laws giving extra police state powers "just in case" and the liberals immediately started using them on taking power to pass even worse ones.  

We need to vote them both out.


On 20/09/2021 1:56 pm, Brendan Clarke wrote:
The Science Party and since I am a federal candidate are promoting this.
In the midst of actively sabotaging minor parties, the government has passed the Identify and Disrupt Bill 2021. This bill gives unprecedented powers to police and intelligence agencies to either hack or log into your Email, your Facebook, or any other account, and not only view it but alter it however they want.
They can send emails on your behalf, they can post things on your behalf, they can engage in criminal activity on your behalf in order to reach their objective. If compliance is requested from an Australian citizen and they refuse, the consequences include jail time.
Minor parties are often the most vocal whistle-blowers on terrible government policy and abuses of power. Now they've placed most of those parties in a position where they're distracted and scrambling to survive. It should appear to be no accident that this bill was passed at almost exactly the same time. They are using the opportunity to pass terrible legislation with as little outcry as possible.
What can you do?
1. Join a minor party today to bolster democracy!
2. Join the getup campaign: https://me.getup.org.au/.../repeal-the-identify-and...
3. Vote for minor parties, and preference both major parties last.
Together we can restore integrity to our democracy.
We need your support to stay registered and bring critical thinking to parliament! Sign up as a member right now so we can keep fighting for good government.

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Sep 20, 2021, 1:43:24 AM9/20/21
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The Sex is still around and has changed into Reason Australia. The Pirate party does not seem to be registered at the moment but John is still active at 2600 discord meetings.
Wish we combine all the members to fight these stupid and dangerous laws.
The most important part to play now is to help ensure that minor parties stay registered.
While Labor is alway better than the LNP, they always seem to vote with the LNP to bring in more draconian laws.
Labor under Gillard threw Julian Assange under the bus.
Wish us all luck and get involved.
Kind regards
Brendan Clarke


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Morgan

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Sep 20, 2021, 2:06:49 AM9/20/21
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PPAU is currently unregistered, but attempting to get membership back up to meet the requirements for registration (which the major parties are currently attempting to raise the threshold on) but will still be fielding candidates at the next election (as independents not under the PPAU banner, assuming the party doesn't manage to get re-registered in time)

Sid E

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Sep 20, 2021, 8:30:47 AM9/20/21
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Brendan Clarke is only here to promote his political agenda. At least unlike Lev he was open about it.

The "Science Party" seems to be for any science that goes against the LNP.

They claim to be anti war but get upset because the French aren't making us weapons of war.

They claim to be for Australia, but support shipping off jobs to China for cheaper products and trade deals.

"The most important part to play now is to help ensure that minor parties stay registered.
While Labor is alway better than the LNP, they always seem to vote with the LNP to bring in more draconian laws."

What a load of shit - If Labor was always better they wouldn't allow laws like this to pass. Help the minor parties by joining us? I think not...

Do not trust smaller "political" parties that are very much aligned with one of the major 2 parties, they will follow the big party that gives them a tiny slice of power.

Their website contains a list of policies which are impossible to implement, and cover a broad spectrum to try and keep everyone happy - under the umbrella of science...

So - where does the Science Party get its funding from? Where can I see who has donated for a political cause?

Sid E

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Sep 20, 2021, 9:51:57 AM9/20/21
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What's a local MP get paid up there?

$160,000 a year?

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Sep 20, 2021, 8:53:13 PM9/20/21
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Between $130,000 and $250,000 per annum.   They tend to keep in quiet because some get paid more than others and they don't want their fellow politicians finding out.   How that is calculated is pretty arbitrary, but I would suspect it relates to why electoral boundaries keep getting shifted.   When they lose their seat or retire a similar annual amount is paid as a retirement pension, in addition to any superannuation and "consulting jobs" they get after retirement. For life.     A statistic i once heard was the prime minister of Australia gets paid annually more money than any other leader in the developed world again. But at the time that was Turnbull, the guy they destroyed the NBN because he had large stock holdings in copper and copper remediation companies. (yup)

Even minor parties that have no chance of forming a party at an election who have a shady preferential voting agreement get given something like a $15,000 golden handshake if they get a large enough popular vote..  i guess as a "thank you" for giving Australia the illusion we are actually a democracy and pretend your votes count. Those votes which of course are immediately redirected and counted toward one of the "major two parties" after the counting is finished.

That is literally how; two elections ago the liberal party gained power.     I was watching the counts carefully.   LNP had something like 39% and  ALP had something like 44% just before counted closed.

But there was a minor party, the communist party no less, who had their party name listed as "Australian Labour Party (Workers union)" or similar wording.   The point was at first glance your granny might have mistaken it for the Labour Party and accidentally voted for them.  They got something like 6% of voters who accidentally voted for them instead of Labour. When the counts finished LNP after all the little traitorous asshole parties had handed them their preferential counts, they were something like 45 - 47%  vs Labours 44.    Something like that anyway. In an event it handed them the country - because votes towards the communist part went to them.   Hows that for a twist of irony.

Here is a fun one -
I also spent a quiet afternoon once adding up the annual wages of all the council, state and federal politicians going back to about 1980, including all the retired politicians, allowing for a rough turnover at each election, or retirement age. I had to do a lot of wikipedia lookups to see how many seats in each branch of government there was, took me a while.
The figure I arrived at was as of 2017 or so, all politicians since 1980 are per annum costing over a trillion dollars in payments.   Something that is not obvious as the various funding ledgers report it all separately.   Even the pirate party had the audacity to call bullshit on me when a member noticed my post.  I guess they didn't want their benefits hurt either.

We could literally pay off the entire Australian deficit and debt with the IMF, if current and retired politicians waived their government benefits for a few months.

No wonder the Australian government can no longer function without fines issued for trivial road infringements+stupid regulations, and Australia has one of the highest tax rates in the world.

All politicians in Australia are corrupt. Even the ones that sometimes have our back.



On 20/09/2021 11:51 pm, Sid E wrote:

What's a local MP get paid up there?

$160,000 a year?

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Bill Gates: 640k is more than enough for anybody
PC guy down the road: You will never fill that 10mb Hard disk mate
Abbott/Turnbull: 25Mbps is "more than enough" for the average Australian household.
Turnbull: Actually 10MBs is enough for the average household really.
Abbott/Turnbull: It is cheaper to put in FTTN, you get up to 24mbs/down and 256k up..  we can upgrade it more later...
--
Abbott: Being an Aboriginal is a "Lifestyle choice" 
Abbott: Having optic fiber (FTTP) is a "Lifestyle choice"
Abbott/Cabinet: People and Businesses that require broadband should move to the city.
Hockey: The extra cost of fuel wont effect low income families, because they don't drive anywhere anymore.
Abbott: Australians will have to tighten their belt..  put off that overseas 
holiday or new car this year.. 
Abbott: I wont apologize for the stolen generation, I would do it again.
Abbott: I stopped the boats, they deserve to be locked up as terrorists.
Abbott: I am sick of being told I am violating human rights.
Abbott: We need to pass these extra nation wide surveillance laws as soon as possible, we can fix the issues with the scope later..
--
Adolf Hitler: And so by voting to appoint me high chancelor and to dissolve parliment you vote for a stronger germany, for stong industry and jobs for all.. we can worry about the finer details later..
Adolf Hitler: Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise.
--
Joseph Goebbels: If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal
enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
--
In politics - Later never happens.

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Sep 20, 2021, 9:01:35 PM9/20/21
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There is a phrase which says it all.
"A politicians wages should be based on the LOWER median wage of the majority of the nation they serve, then they might be motivated to try to do something about it"


On 21/09/2021 10:52 am, ad...@reviews.wox.org wrote:

We could literally pay off the entire Australian deficit and debt with the IMF, if current and retired politicians waived their government benefits for a few months.

No wonder the Australian government can no longer function without fines issued for trivial road infringements+stupid regulations, and Australia has one of the highest tax rates in the world.

All politicians in Australia are corrupt. Even the ones that sometimes have our back.


On 20/09/2021 11:51 pm, Sid E wrote:

What's a local MP get paid up there?

$160,000 a year?

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Sep 20, 2021, 9:06:32 PM9/20/21
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Actually it might be better to say -
"A politicians wages should be based on the LOWER median INCOME of the majority of the nation they serve, then they might be motivated to try to do something about it"

Since the majority of the poor have to live of social security and apparently that isn't a wage ;)

Sid E

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Sep 20, 2021, 11:16:53 PM9/20/21
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Why don't we let Brendan reply?

Apparently the Science Party can fix all this, as long as the Libs aren't involved.

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Sid E

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Sep 23, 2021, 8:44:15 AM9/23/21
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Science Party replied

https://youtu.be/O9A3JSd-8Xg

Enjoy

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David Fernée

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Sep 23, 2021, 8:28:43 PM9/23/21
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Perhaps some Benjamin Franklin from 1731?

Observations on my reading history, in Library, May 19th, 1731.

That the great affairs of the world, the wars, revolutions, etc., are carried on and effected by parties.

That the view of these parties is their present general interest, or what they take to be such.

That the different views of these different parties occasion all confusion.

That while a party is carrying on a general design, each man has his particular private interest in view.

That as soon as a party has gained its general point, each member becomes intent upon his particular interest; which, thwarting others, breaks that party into divisions, and occasions more confusion.

That few in public affairs act from a mere view of the good of their country, whatever they may pretend; and, though their actings bring real good to their country, yet men primarily considered that their own and their country’s interest was united, and did not act from a principle of benevolence.

That fewer still, in public affairs, act with a view to the good of mankind.

There seems to me at present to be great occasion for raising a United Party for Virtue, by forming the virtuous and good men of all nations into a regular body, to be governed by suitable good and wise rules, which good and wise men may probably be more unanimous in their obedience to, than common people are to common laws.

I at present think that whoever attempts this aright, and is well qualified, cannot fail of pleasing God, and of meeting with success.
"

B. F.” - The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin (standardebooks.org)

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Oct 25, 2021, 2:09:21 AM10/25/21
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Looks like the government is trying to pull another swifty -  we have TWO days to object to the government forcing everyone to get a digital identity.  You have until 5:00 pm AEDT on Wednesday 27 October 2021 to upload your submission on the Bill and the Regulation Impact Statement.

You can post objections here:
https://www.digitalidentity.gov.au/have-your-say/phase-3/submission-form


I think point 8 in my objection really shows the crux of the matter - although in general digital identify discriminates against those not using the internet of things, and smart devices are not cheap.

[8: Overall, reliance on any sort of conventional digital identity system is an ill thought out bad idea that would only appeal to the most young fad-driven youth who don't know better and cannot understand in the real world most of us live outside of their smart devices, and don't depend on the internet.]



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Oct 25, 2021, 6:25:46 AM10/25/21
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David Fernee? Where is you well spoken English when we need it?

Instead of me saying "Oi dickheads stop spying on me"...

I just think you can articulate it better ;)

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David Fernée

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Oct 25, 2021, 3:27:52 PM10/25/21
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Perhaps I could summarise it as a friendly battle of wits between the ideologies of Pink Floyd and The Police?

On the one hand:
On the other hand:
I appreciate both bands very much. It does seem an awful lot like Estonia though: e-Estonia — We have built a digital society and we can show you how. I prefer the Nordics to the Baltics in any case (although Bora Bora and a beach towel would be preferable to either at present in my opinion).

On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 at 21:25, Sid E <side...@gmail.com> wrote:

David Fernee? Where is you well spoken English when we need it?

Instead of me saying "Oi dickheads stop spying on me"...

I just think you can articulate it better ;)

On 25 Oct 2021 5:09 pm, "ad...@reviews.wox.org" <ad...@reviews.wox.org> wrote:

Looks like the government is trying to pull another swifty -  we have TWO days to object to the government forcing everyone to get a digital identity.  You have until 5:00 pm AEDT on Wednesday 27 October 2021 to upload your submission on the Bill and the Regulation Impact Statement.

You can post objections here:
https://www.digitalidentity.gov.au/have-your-say/phase-3/submission-form


I think point 8 in my objection really shows the crux of the matter - although in general digital identify discriminates against those not using the internet of things, and smart devices are not cheap.

[8: Overall, reliance on any sort of conventional digital identity system is an ill thought out bad idea that would only appeal to the most young fad-driven youth who don't know better and cannot understand in the real world most of us live outside of their smart devices, and don't depend on the internet.]



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Oct 25, 2021, 7:20:24 PM10/25/21
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With the key difference being estonia has a modest central population controlled justice driven government with checks in place for auditing and maintaining equitable justice. It is a government for the people; not a people abused by the powers of government.

While Australia has been shown each and every time a law is passed that has the potential for authoritarian abuse; it is always immediately abused by the following government.
These  laws are usually implemented half assed without proper controls, auditing or sunset clauses, usually has little or no oversight or consultation, and what little consultation there is typically involves a little known and secret "submission" page somewhere only those with vested interests know about, and there is little to no time for the people to object by the time they find out about it.   They usually offer some half assed promise to "fix it later" and we end up with an open ended bit of legislation with the widest possible scope for interpretation or abuse, that is immediately abused, and "later never happens"

Also Australia has Peter Dutton and his NAZI SS storm trooper omni force.   We have off shore detention death camps where refugees go to die basically, we have Nazi shock troopers with matching powers and uniform, about the only thing we are missing is some idiot with a bad moustache yelling at us - but we already have state premieres with varying levels of facial hair doing daily yelling sessions to the people, and throwing out dystopian mandates daily.

You really want to hand control of your life and identity to the whim of these people?




On 26/10/2021 6:27 am, David Fernée wrote:
Perhaps I could summarise it as a friendly battle of wits between the ideologies of Pink Floyd and The Police?

On the one hand:
On the other hand:
I appreciate both bands very much. It does seem an awful lot like Estonia though: e-Estonia — We have built a digital society and we can show you how. I prefer the Nordics to the Baltics in any case (although Bora Bora and a beach towel would be preferable to either at present in my opinion).



-- 
New and improved 2600... well..  ..we drew on some flames and polished it a bit..
--
Google - making sure, life is no more, than 1984...
--
Bill Gates: 640k is more than enough for anybody
PC guy down the road: You will never fill that 10mb Hard disk mate
Abbott/Turnbull: 25Mbps is "more than enough" for the average Australian household.
Turnbull: Actually 10MBs is enough for the average household really.
Abbott/Turnbull: It is cheaper to put in FTTN, you get up to 24mbs/down and 256k up..  we can upgrade it more later...
--
Abbott: Being an Aboriginal is a "Lifestyle choice" 
Abbott: Having optic fiber (FTTP) is a "Lifestyle choice"
Abbott/Cabinet: People and Businesses that require broadband should move to the city.
Hockey: The extra cost of fuel wont effect low income families, because they don't drive anywhere anymore.
Abbott: Australians will have to tighten their belt..  put off that overseas 
holiday or new car this year.. 
Abbott: I wont apologize for the stolen generation, I would do it again.
Abbott: I stopped the boats, they deserve to be locked up as terrorists.
Abbott: I am sick of being told I am violating human rights.
Abbott: We need to pass these extra nation wide surveillance laws as soon as possible, we can fix the issues with the scope later..
--
Adolf Hitler: And so by voting to appoint me high chancelor and to dissolve parliment you vote for a stronger germany, for stong industry and jobs for all.. we can worry about the finer details later..
Adolf Hitler: Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise.
--
Joseph Goebbels: If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal
enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
--
In politics - Later never happens.

Sid E

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Oct 26, 2021, 3:20:16 AM10/26/21
to 2600-australia

Cmon Mr Wox

We can't just go calling people Nazis, sure we have some 1930s Germany like policies - but throwing THAT word around - just makes people think you're being emotional and not rational. (U mad bro, it's ok I am too).

Our political system is flawed but we're not throwing people into camps or gas chambers, just for being who they are. As Australian we are better than Nazis, and always will be.

friendlyjoyrides is still making videos while Gladys and Bruz are out of a job, in 1930s Germany jordies would be executed for speaking up against the government. In current China he would be "disappeared" as directed by that George Orwell textbook from 1984.

It's seems not many people want to speak up because they are scared of losing things - friends, careers, housing etc - without knowing they will lose a lot more by being silent.

Big hacker mailing list... No major discussion about digital vaccine passports. You have to scan a QR code with your phone, which links to a place, that logs time of your activity with the government..... Then you have to show your phone to someone else to be verified.

Are we going to get QR codes on our homes next?

Stop calling our government germans and call them what they are, Dystopian Dictators, Fear Mongers, Corrupt, Controlling, maybe Psychopathic... plenty of creative words you can use.

Also to answer your question at the end - No, No I do not. ;) I'm also happy that you keep bringing this up because people are too occupied by a virus even Mac users catch, and don't seem to care much about digital privacy anymore.

Here's the problem - by the time we know about these laws it's too late. This is all done for our own protection, and people want to feel safe and secure and happy, and most people think they are.

How do you convince people to even speak up against laws, which they don't think matter to them? You know, the whole "If you're not doing something wrong, you don't have anything to worry about" attitude?

We can jump up and down and scream to the world about it, but why should they care? Is this more important than the latest Celebrity Wanker Challenge? Or the latest woke Marvel movie?

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Oct 27, 2021, 3:12:16 AM10/27/21
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I beg to differ.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-19/immigration-border-force-chiefs-apologise-operation-fortitude/6864982

https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/04/16/406611/Australia-to-let-guards-use-deadly-force

https://www.muswellbrookchronicle.com.au/story/895801/afghan-detainees-escape-darwin-detention-centre/

Might not be gas, but they wanted to pass a law allowing
guards to beat to death or shoot inmates with legal immunity
if the guards felt butthurt by them.
Irony is most search engines suppress results on that very
topic, unless you had one bookmarked.  Even facebook deleted
my post linking to the original story when details of the
legislation got leaked back in 2015 - supposedly part of the
no news can be linked by Australia thing they got going lately.

But then they also deleted my post discussing the curious
behaviour of fema and the UN back in the middle of 2019 when
they got funding and a mandate to stock up on supplies and
redundant staff anticipating a sudden population drop.   
Everyone was scratching their head.. then 2020 happened.   
Gee it was almost like they scheduled to happen.. naaaa cant
say that.

On 26/10/2021 6:20 pm, Sid E wrote:
>
> Cmon Mr Wox
>
> We can't just go calling people Nazis, sure we have some
> 1930s Germany like policies - but throwing THAT word
> around - just makes people think you're being emotional
> and not rational. (U mad bro, it's ok I am too).
>
> Our political system is flawed but we're not throwing
> people into camps or gas chambers, just for being who they
> are. As Australian we are better than Nazis, and always
> will be.
>
>

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Sid E

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Oct 27, 2021, 6:24:03 AM10/27/21
to 2600-australia

Well, what we're talking about here is both political / immigration issues, and censorship issues.

Personally, I don't know the specific details on every part of refugees immigration process, there is a lot going on with intelligence organisations to ensure they actually want to be here, and why they need refugee status. Clearly there is a whole bunch of red tape stopping people entering, and that's a genuine issue. We should either take them in or send them elsewhere, not lock them up for years on end.

The use of force at a detention center is also a pretty complicated subject, no one should be mistreated, but on the other hand you need some form of crowd control. Lots of the people stuck there already come from war torn places and will do desperate things to survive, so the people who "watch over" them need to be able to react to whatever situation is put in front of them.

The best defense is a good offense, or not pissing off a whole bunch of other countries..... another discussion..... but we're still not Nazis god damnit!

When it comes to your FB posts being deleted, that's our real issue. We don't know WTF is going on half the time, and people who try and share information which certain..... corporate interests... don't want shared, we get to <current year> things happening.

Once again - how do we make people care about freedoms they don't know they might (will) need in the future?

Shall I remind all your male nerds that the MyGov app can listen to you jerkin the gherkin, and see the nasty pics you look up on some chans?

"Quick citizen 26001737473 is having a heart attack! Oh wait no just rubbing one out, it's ok"... It's gonna happen.

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Oct 29, 2021, 3:04:55 AM10/29/21
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There was another article i didnt link, but basically NZ was
getting sick of our shit making the human rights record of
the Aus/NZ alliance look like crap, and actually offered to
take all of our detained refugees off our hands for nothing
to process them.

Our government basically said no, the fuckers can rot to death.

The articles I linked earlier really glossed over it, but
the law they tried to pass was basically -
If a guard feels in any way offended or threatened by any
inmate, they can execute them.

It literally made it legal for them to shoot the inmates if
they felt "butthurt" by something they said or gestured.

and if they didnt feel butthurt, they were allowed to beat
them to death instead. Legally.

It was that bad.  Literally NAZI germany death camp
bullshit. In Australian law.  Fuck that shit.
Bad enough the "tow them where they came from" policy almost
caused our northern neighbours to declare war on
Australia.   That didn't make the news either.   They
literally had loaded guns pointed at us.  Not even a single
mention. None.

And when that boat with 200 refugees got towed into
international waters on orders from Duttons office, and then
the boat was allowed to sink, killing all 200 passengers,
the news noticed that Immigration had "lost track" of 200
boat people.     They hung some shit on the government for a
week... until the body parts started washing up.  Then the
story was killed and nobody has mentioned it since.

At the moment the liberals have a scam going on with the
Australian news agencies.  They are getting tax exemptions
in return for not reporting on civil rights protests and
liberal government misconduct.

In fact the only branch of government they seem perfectly
happy to shit all over is Dan Andrews, and as much as a dick
he is,  some of the other states are actually doing even
eviller shit than he is, but the media wont report on it.

Oh but wait, Dan is aligned with the opposition.. sorry my
mistake.    Apparently everything is his fault, (even tho is
was actually NSW's - but everyone just forgot)

Move along nothing to see here.

It is also too late to do further submissions over that
digital spy.. i mean identity app they want us all to put on
our smart phones.. you know in addition to the first covid
safe app that tracks your GPS location, which is probably
still installed on 8 million Australians phones and was
forgotten about, and the second GR covid safe app that they
use to automate fining businesses for being open during lock
downs, and can give the government access to your dick pics too.

If only all of Australia could just get up and leave, and
apply for political asylum in Canada or something.   Then
the only dick pics the government can look at is each others.

</rant>

On 27/10/2021 9:24 pm, Sid E wrote:
>
> Well, what we're talking about here is both political /
> immigration issues, and censorship issues.
>
>

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Nov 2, 2021, 7:06:21 PM11/2/21
to 2600-au...@googlegroups.com
Just a slight clarification here,  when immigration
officially "lost track" of the 200 boat people,  the media
thought they had escaped onto Australia soil and started
their usual political points scoring rhetoric of racist
anti-immigrant border protection seizures and rants of
demands to hunt them all down, and accountability from the
immigration officials that "let them escape" blah blah

So it is hard to say if they were pleased or shocked to
discover said officials had actually gone above and beyond
and murdered all 200 of them instead.  Nobody had the fukin
balls to write anything about it after that.

Our government is not nice.

On 29/10/2021 6:04 pm, ad...@reviews.wox.org wrote:
>
> ..., the news noticed that Immigration had "lost track" of
> 200 boat people.     They hung some shit on the government
> for a week...

David Fernée

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Nov 3, 2021, 2:58:56 AM11/3/21
to 2600-au...@googlegroups.com
Dear wox,

Are you talking about the boat that sank off the coast of Java? Do you remember what it was called? Australia may be a lot of things, but the standard approach is typically to detain and repatriate illegal immigrants, not to harm or kill. Legitimate cases of refugees seeking asylum are taken quite seriously as far as I understand it.

"The Australian Government usually allocates around 13,750 places to refugees and others with humanitarian needs under its planned Humanitarian Program. Historically, the majority of these places are granted to offshore refugees referred to Australia by the UNHCR, but some are given to refugees who arrived by air or boat and were granted protection visas onshore. However, even during high boat arrival periods, onshore grants to boat and air arrivals combined still only comprise about 50 per cent of Australia’s Humanitarian Program." - Asylum seekers and refugees: what are the facts? – Parliament of Australia (aph.gov.au)

Kind regards,

David

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Sid E

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Nov 3, 2021, 4:53:42 AM11/3/21
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How many refugees do we let in during lockdowns?

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David Fernée

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Nov 3, 2021, 5:22:32 AM11/3/21
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Dear Sid,

I am not quite sure. According to the UNHCR, 4,302 resettled in Australia between 2019 and 2020 via the UNHCR's resettlement programme (UNHCR - RSQ).
Untitled2.png

186 in 2021 via the UNHCR's resettlement programme (UNHCR - RSQ).

Untitled.png

If you do not filter by country of origin, the UNHCR gives the total number of refugees to be resettled in Australia between 2019 and 2021 to be 4,732 (UNHCR - RSQ).
Untitled3.png

There may be many others, but I haven't the data for you.

Kind regards,

David

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Sid E

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Nov 3, 2021, 6:29:51 AM11/3/21
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Good Sir David

The question wasn't specifically directed at you, more so to get people thinking about how the processing of refugees happens. Also I think the boat in reference was the Tampa? Could be wrong but the names rings a bell. (MV Tampa thanks google)

However the data you have produced does show good information, the amount of refugees has dropped significantly due to lockdowns.

Does this make us evil? We DID refuse Australian citizens entry to their own country, and stopped foreign citizens returning home. In my opinion yes, denying an Australian citizen entry to their homeland is a bit evil - and that applies to the same reduction in genuine refugees - especially after the Afghanistan ordeal.

If we can look past Mr Wox's valid emotional reaction to these events and calling people Nazis, he's not totally wrong on some of the humanitarian issues which could be better handled.

But that comes back to the whole question of, what exact positive changes do we want to make? And how do we make these changes happen?

I know there is many good people here who don't know what to do - and I don't want to go around inciting protests - but seriously people if you dont start speaking up then we're not going to be here to speak up for you. Look at history.

All political bullshit needs to be put aside and hackers needs to start being hackers again. These days you can't even joke about the Clinton kill count without being called a right wing nut, and its just fucking jokes!

2600 get your shit together.

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David Fernée

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Nov 3, 2021, 8:35:11 AM11/3/21
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Dear Sid, 

Do forgive me, sometimes I take things literally (String literal - Wikipedia).

Regarding "concern about the human rights of people held in Australia’s immigration detention facilities[,]" this may be a good place to begin (Inspections of Australia's immigration detention facilities 2019 Report | Australian Human Rights Commission).

The commission can be contacted about any serious concerns and there are also opportunities to get involved (Get involved | Australian Human Rights Commission).

Perhaps 2600 could make a submission here (Have your say | Australian Human Rights Commission)?

Human rights are something relevant to all humans. Everyone, in my opinion, has something relevant to say about them.

Kind regards,

David

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