Arizona execution questions drug use?
richard
of the drug being used. It is not approved of by the FDA, because it was
made in the UK. It could cause illness or extreme suffering.
Oh please. The guy ain't gonna give a shit once he's dead. That is the
purpose of the drug. Just a bunch of damn bleeding heart liberals whining.
Somewhat like the ads I see on tv where the drug maker says "Not to be
taken by women who can become pregnant". Well duhhh, that means about 80%
of women can't take the drug.
Now this is the part where evan platt chimes in with his redundant
arrogance on how I stated men have fewer ribs than women. Yet, he won't
ever say that I also admitted I was wrong.
Aardvark
> An execution happening tonight in Arizona
The ultimate abuse of human rights.
> Now this is the part where evan platt chimes in with his redundant
> arrogance on how I stated men have fewer ribs than women.
You certainly did, didn't you?
> Yet, he won't
> ever say that I also admitted I was wrong.
Not that anyone noticed, you didn't.
--
The rocket bombs which fell daily on London were probably fired by
the Government of Oceania itself, ’just to keep people frightened’.
This was an idea that had literally never occurred to him.
--- George Orwell, 1984
Mike Easter
> An execution happening tonight in Arizona is partially under fire because
> of the drug being used. It is not approved of by the FDA, because it was
> made in the UK.
AZ is using - used - the same cocktail as always, thiopental,
Pancuronium, KCl.
There is a shortage of thiopental nationally because the Michael Jackson
propofol death disturbed its legitimate use by anesthesiologists,
putting more pressure on the thiopental supply channels.
All manner of execution modalities have had some kind of problem or
another, so in that regard the anti- capital punishment arguments have
some weight.
The Chinese do a pretty good job of it and just use one drug in the van,
pentobarbital instead of thiopental. They do it about 40 times a year
and it is a lot cheaper that way.
--
Mike Easter
Mike Yetto
I don't know where to start, so I'll just finish.
You, RtS, proclaim your profound ignorance with each photon.
Mike "electrons, too" Yetto
--
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice they are not.
Aardvark
> The Chinese do a pretty good job of it and just use one drug in the van,
> pentobarbital instead of thiopental. They do it about 40 times a year
> and it is a lot cheaper that way.
Not in terms of human life, it isn't.
Mike Easter
> Mike Easter wrote:
>
>> The Chinese do a pretty good job of it and just use one drug in the van,
>> pentobarbital instead of thiopental. They do it about 40 times a year
>> and it is a lot cheaper that way.
>
> Not in terms of human life, it isn't.
I won't debate the anti- capital punishment perspective because I buy
almost all of the arguments of that side of the argument - while still
being in favor of capital punishment with reservations.
The worldwide trend toward abolishing capital punishment is significant,
and the 'club' that the US is in - the countries which still execute -
is diminishing, such as China, Iran, Iraq, Saudia Arabia, Sudan,
Vietnam, Syria etc.
Amnesty International sez China executes a lot more than 40 a year,
maybe 1700, maybe as many as 10,000.
There is quite a wide range by states in the US about executions for
various reasons. There is also the US military and US federal executions.
--
Mike Easter
Bucky Breeder
They should just put them in an old car, run a vacuum
cleaner hose from the tailpipe into the cab, and then
start the engine. It's totally painless and they just
go to sleep and never wake up again. Talking "cheap" here,
and saving taxpayers' some money: prisons should start
doing that to all violent felons in batches because a car
will hold about 6 people safely. And of course, use the
seat belts or else PETA will be bitchin' a fit over that.
HTH.
--
I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and this free speech message
was transmitted through the Draconian censorship blockades!
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-20015629-71.html
http://www.boingboing.net/Smoky_The_Nanobot.jpg
Repent! The end is near.... So, smoke 'em if you got 'em.
Aardvark
> Aardvark wrote:
>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>
>>> The Chinese do a pretty good job of it and just use one drug in the
>>> van, pentobarbital instead of thiopental. They do it about 40 times a
>>> year and it is a lot cheaper that way.
>>
>> Not in terms of human life, it isn't.
>
> I won't debate the anti- capital punishment perspective because I buy
> almost all of the arguments of that side of the argument - while still
> being in favor of capital punishment with reservations.
>
Does not compute.
> The worldwide trend toward abolishing capital punishment is significant,
> and the 'club' that the US is in - the countries which still execute -
> is diminishing, such as China, Iran, Iraq, Saudia Arabia, Sudan,
> Vietnam, Syria etc.
>
Your country finds itself in illustrious company in this instance.
> Amnesty International sez China executes a lot more than 40 a year,
> maybe 1700, maybe as many as 10,000.
>
Yup.
> There is quite a wide range by states in the US about executions for
> various reasons. There is also the US military and US federal
> executions.
Why does the US deny so many their basic human rights? Nothing is more
ugly or grotesque as a defenceless person being deliberately and
premeditatedly put to death. Even worse is when that killing is done by
the state.
§nühw¤£f
following:
> On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 22:15:36 -0700, richard wrote:
>
> > An execution happening tonight in Arizona
>
> The ultimate abuse of human rights.
>
--
http://www.republicorp.us/
http://stopbeck.com|www.snuhwolf.9f.com|www.eyeonpalin.org|www.youropenbook.org
Mike Easter
> Mike Easter wrote:
>> There is quite a wide range by states in the US about executions for
>> various reasons. There is also the US military and US federal
>> executions.
>
> Why does the US deny so many their basic human rights? Nothing is more
> ugly or grotesque as a defenceless person being deliberately and
> premeditatedly put to death. Even worse is when that killing is done by
> the state.
The concept of crime and punishment has been with us a very long time.
That the punishment range includes death has also been around a long
time. It is a relatively new idea to exclude death from the range of
penalties.
That's what is called 'justice'.
There are definitely some pretty bad folks who've been executed. Also
some very sad cases.
--
Mike Easter
Meat Plow
I think the states should forgo the trial and then appeal process and
just shoot the accused in the side of the head. Would deter criminals
from committing similar crimes wouldn't it?
--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
XS11E
> I won't debate the anti- capital punishment perspective because I
> buy almost all of the arguments of that side of the argument -
> while still being in favor of capital punishment with
> reservations.
I favor capital punishment if done properly and it isn't. Capital
punishment should not be 'punishment' nor revenge, it should be used
ONLY if the person cannot be safely returned to society.
Example: One who commits a crime of passion should not be executed,
it's unlikely they'll ever commit another such crime but someone with
repeated DUI convictions should be executed before he/she kills someone
else (as has recently happened here.) We don't hesitate to step on
cockroaches, why are drug dealers, child molesters, drunk drivers, etc.
worthy of any more consideration?
Why do we respect the lives of those who have no respect for ours?
--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
Aardvark
> I think the states should forgo the trial and then appeal process and
> just shoot the accused in the side of the head. Would deter criminals
> from committing similar crimes wouldn't it?
No.
Meat Plow
> Seems there is little to no evidence that it would deter anything.
I would think otherwise. Facing a quick and certain shotgun blast to the
temple if convicted of a pre-meditated murder might make some people
rethink. Of course crimes of passion would probably remain unaffected.
Even if this didn't deter a lot of money could be saved housing death row
inmates for decades while they exhaust their appeals.
richard
Yet another bleeding heart liberal speaks out.
In the height of the Viet Nam war there was a scene played out on the
streets. A US soldier had captured a man who was caught dealing drugs. He
was kneeling on the groun with hands tied behind his back. An officer was
shown walking by the man with pistol drawn and shot the man in the head.
If I had my way, as many others believe should be done, is to hold public
executions via firing squad. Load all the weapons with live ammo and open
fire at the SOB.
You cry and whine about the state committing murder. What about that guy
who killed others without a care in the world? Why should the state flip
the bill for his useless existance until he dies of natural causes?
Bucky Breeder
news:Xns9E1E5DC41A1...@127.0.0.1:
> Bucky Breeder
> <Breeder_Bucky.Breeder@That's.my.name_Don't.wear.it.out> wrote:
>
>> They should just put them in an old car, run a vacuum
>> cleaner hose from the tailpipe into the cab, and then
>> start the engine. It's totally painless and they just
>> go to sleep and never wake up again. Talking "cheap" here,
>> and saving taxpayers' some money: prisons should start
>> doing that to all violent felons in batches because a car
>> will hold about 6 people safely. And of course, use the
>> seat belts or else PETA will be bitchin' a fit over that.
>
> Cheap? Haven't priced gasoline lately, have you? <G>
Yeah, but you can *also* do it with leftover charcoal, old
clothes, and leaves in a barrel, put the barrel in the
car trunk, and light-'er-up; then run the hose through
the car window... and voila!, you has teh "Green Executions"!
It's the alternative "Old Sparky" that *everyone* can afford!
HTH.
--
I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and EVERYBODY knows
that the "U" in "UFO" stands for "WTF"!
http://tinyurl.com/2g76h4c [http://www.timesonline.co.uk]
http://tinyurl.com/396ljz4 [for those who need illustrations]
Repent! The end is near... Or, good luck if there's an apocalypse.
(Me? I don't go anywhere without a shotgun and package of beef jerky!)
(And some breath-freshening gum... just in case I run into any pretty
white ladies who wanna have some fun before the axis flips over.)
http://coedmagazine.com/2010/09/27/katy-perrys-snl-elmo-boob-bounce-gif/
§nühw¤£f
pondered the following:
Exactly. People commit homicide often based on raw emotion, not thought.
Stupid people think they can get away with it but since its already the crime
with the harshest punishment (regardless of state) they do it anyway.
Mike Easter
> anyone
>> Seems there is little to no evidence that it would deter anything.
>
> Exactly. People commit homicide often based on raw emotion, not thought.
Those who debate pro- capital punishment do not argue deterrence much.
They argue:
- power of the threat of capital punishment in plea bargaining to get
something from the capital crime perpetrator, where's the body, who're
the accomplices, guilty plea
- retribution: the guilty deserve punishment and the punishment should
be proportionate to the crime
- closure: for the murder victim's survivors
--
Mike Easter
Disbelief
It's about time the UK brought back capital punishment and enforced harsher
prison sentences for crime. I absolutely detest a lot of the American way
of life, but totally agree with their stance on crime punishment -
particularly for murder.
As for "human rights", the victims of the crimes in this country also have
those - but it's the perpetrators of crimes who seem to have their "human
rights" to commit crime upheld rather than the other way around.
Mike Easter
> Aardvark wrote:
>> Why does the US deny so many their basic human rights? Nothing is more
>> ugly or grotesque as a defenceless person being deliberately and
>> premeditatedly put to death.
> It's about time the UK brought back capital punishment and enforced harsher
> prison sentences for crime. I absolutely detest a lot of the American way
> of life, but totally agree with their stance on crime punishment -
> particularly for murder.
>
> As for "human rights", the victims of the crimes in this country also have
> those - but it's the perpetrators of crimes who seem to have their "human
> rights" to commit crime upheld rather than the other way around.
There is a basic premise in society about 'rights' and
'responsibilities'. In the crime and punishment metric, the criminal
perpetrators are supposed to be ably judged for their abrogation of
their responsibilities. That is, they don't just have rights, they also
have responsibilities.
Conseuquently, those guilty criminals are denied their rights such as
freedom, for a short time or for a long time such as the rest of their
lives.
Capital crimes are those which are so heinous - such a departure from
human decency, much less responsibility - that some of those capital
crime perps are denied more than just their freedom for the rest of
their lives, but also the right to keep on living.
There is a lot wrong with the criminal justice system in general,
including in the US. There are too many prisoners in prison for
non-violent crimes, there is too much corruption and crime and gang
dominance in prison, there is too much inequity in the prosecution and
defense of the accuseds, there is too much discrepancy/ inequality/ in
how sentencing is carried out including the death penalty, and there is
too much time spent in the judicial processing and reprocessing for a
death penalty to be carried out.
--
Mike Easter
§ñühw¤£f
> snuhwolf wrote:
>> anyone
>
>>> Seems there is little to no evidence that it would deter anything.
>>
>> Exactly. People commit homicide often based on raw emotion, not thought.
>
> Those who debate pro- capital punishment do not argue deterrence much.
>
> They argue:
>
> - power of the threat of capital punishment in plea bargaining to get
> something from the capital crime perpetrator, where's the body, who're
> the accomplices, guilty plea
>
> - retribution: the guilty deserve punishment and the punishment should
> be proportionate to the crime
>
If that was the case there'd be shitloads of war criminals on death row
or starring as victims in the next SAW flick :)
> - closure: for the murder victim's survivors
>
Revenge. The gift that keeps on giving.
--
www.skepticalscience.com|www.youtube.com/officialpeta
cageprisoners.com|www.snuhwolf.9f.com|www.eyeonpalin.org
_____ ____ ____ __ /\_/\ __ _ ______ _____
/ __/ |/ / / / / // // . . \\ \ |\ | / __ \ \ \ __\
_\ \/ / /_/ / _ / \ / \ \| \| \ \_\ \ \__\ _\
/___/_/|_/\____/_//_/ \_@_/ \__|\__|\____/\____\_\
§ñühw¤£f
So you support a flawed system that favors rich white people over poor
brown people?
Interesting.
> As for "human rights", the victims of the crimes in this country also have
> those - but it's the perpetrators of crimes who seem to have their "human
> rights" to commit crime upheld rather than the other way around.
>
Thats hilarious. Google "the innocence project" some time to see how
fucked up
the Uhmurikin criminal "justice" system is.
Word.
Disbelief
Sorry Mike, but in my opinion if a thug/thief/murderer etc commits a crime
against any person, then that criminal should suffer the harshest penalty
possible - preferably the eye-for-an-eye scenario and not treated like
royalty as they are within the UK where they have all the comforts of home,
and the 'screws' are too frightened to upset them in case they take the
American way and sue the arse off them.
Hell, reportedly in one prison, the governor is even providing floral
decorations for the prisoners FFS!!
G. Morgan
>Why does the US deny so many their basic human rights? Nothing is more
>ugly or grotesque as a defenceless person being deliberately and
>premeditatedly put to death. Even worse is when that killing is done by
>the state.
IMO...
When a person is convicted and there is no doubt "who 'dunnit", that person's
"basic human rights" are subject to revocation by *society*, not so much the
State. In extreme cases, that includes the right to breathe. The State is
charged with the task, but it is 'The People' telling the politicians whether
it's cool or not.
It's done mainly for the family of the victims. If the crime was so heinous
that it warrants the death penalty, chances are the family of the victim are
demanding justice.
Some people think the methods used for capital punishment are too lax, while
others complain the methods are cruel. Lethal injection (two methods), electric
chair, firing range, and hanging are still options in some states (sometimes the
doomed get to pick). Laws vary widely from state-to-state, with some abolishing
it, and some (i.e. Texas) use it often.
I don't think it provides a deterrent to violent crime, the stats do not support
that notion. Some say in this modern day and age, capital punishment should be
a thing of the past, like slavery...
...But try telling that to the parents of a 10 y/o girl raped and murdered by a
gang of thugs. In a case like that, the victim's family should get to "press
the button" if they wish.
IMHO.
G. Morgan
> I absolutely detest a lot of the American way
>of life
Like what for example? Name 10 In order of detestedness, starting with #10 and
counting down to the MAIN reason you detest the American way of life.
Sounds like fun. :)
§nühw¤£f
following:
just cause for any detestation:
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/10/28-0
$1 Trillion in Reserves, But Not Hiring: Is Business 'Anti-Jobs'?
US Companies Stash One Trillion Dollars in Cash: Moody's
WASHINGTON- US companies are hoarding nearly one trillion dollars of cash that
they are unlikely to use for expansion amid a muddled
outlook on economic recovery, rating agency Moody's said Wednesday.
"Companies will hesitate to spend their cash hoards on expansion until there is
greater certainty
about the direction of the US economy," said Steven Oman, senior vice president
at Moody's
Investor Service.
A new Moody's study of corporate cash balances found that US companies,
excluding financial firms,
had about 943 billion dollars of cash and short-term investments on their
balance sheets at mid-year
2010. The 20 most cash-rich companies had a combined 346 billion dollars.
By comparison, Moody's said, at the end of 2008, companies had 775 billion
dollars of cash.
The economy contracted 6.8 percent in the fourth quarter that year; the worst
recession since the
Great Depression officially ended in June 2009.
The rating agency noted the companies' apprehension in the face of the weak
recovery which slowed to a 1.7 percent growth in economic output
in the second quarter of 2010 and has left persistently high unemployment.
"Given low demand and capacity utilization within certain industries, companies
are wary of investing their cash in new capacity and adding
workers, thereby doing little to abbreviate the jobless recovery," it said.
Moody's forecast that as the economy stabilizes, companies most likely would
use their cash for share repurchases and acquisitions.
The US Federal Reserve is widely expected to announce next week it will resume
major long-term asset purchases, known as quantitative
easing, to support the flagging recovery.
Aardvark
> Mike Easter wrote:
>> closure: for the murder victim's survivors
>>
> Revenge. The gift that keeps on giving.
I often see the families of murder victims on TV in this country speaking
about how they feel closure and can now move on, in interview outside a
Crown Court building somewhere after the killer has been sentenced to a
long term in prison.
They obviously don't need judicial killing in order to feel this way.
--
"En un lugar de la Mancha, de cuyo nombre no quiero acordarme,
no hace mucho tiempo que vivía un hidalgo de los de lanza en
astillero, adarga antigua, rocín flaco y galgo corredor."
-Cervantes, 'Don Quixote'
Aardvark
>
> It's about time the UK brought back capital punishment and enforced
> harsher prison sentences for crime. I absolutely detest a lot of the
> American way of life, but totally agree with their stance on crime
> punishment - particularly for murder.
>
So, you prefer vengeance over justice. I see.
> As for "human rights", the victims of the crimes in this country also
> have those
That's right.
>- but it's the perpetrators of crimes who seem to have their
> "human rights" to commit crime upheld rather than the other way around.
Last time I checked the UDHR, it said nothing whatsoever about the
committing of crimes being a basic Human Right.
Aardvark
> Aardvark <aard...@youllnever.know> wrote:
>
>>Why does the US deny so many their basic human rights? Nothing is more
>>ugly or grotesque as a defenceless person being deliberately and
>>premeditatedly put to death. Even worse is when that killing is done by
>>the state.
>
> IMO...
>
> When a person is convicted and there is no doubt "who 'dunnit", that
> person's "basic human rights" are subject to revocation by *society*,
> not so much the State.
You seem to be confused between 'rights' and 'privileges'.
> In extreme cases, that includes the right to
> breathe.
The ultimate abuse of Human Rights, no matter who does it.
> The State is charged with the task, but it is 'The People'
> telling the politicians whether it's cool or not.
>
Killing a defenceless person is either right or wrong. There's no middle
ground, it's that simple. I happen to think that it's wrong.
Someone deliberately kills someone else, and is in turn killed by the
state. Two wrongs don't make a right.
> It's done mainly for the family of the victims. If the crime was so
> heinous that it warrants the death penalty, chances are the family of
> the victim are demanding justice.
No crime in this country warrants judicial killing, as far as I know. In
fact I can't think of any crime, anywhere, which warrants such barbarous
treatment.
>
> Some people think the methods used for capital punishment are too lax,
> while others complain the methods are cruel.
Killing a person is the most cruel and unusual punishment there can be.
> Lethal injection (two
> methods), electric chair, firing range, and hanging are still options in
> some states (sometimes the doomed get to pick).
That's totally sick.
> Laws vary widely from
> state-to-state, with some abolishing it, and some (i.e. Texas) use it
> often.
>
Texas is more totally sick than the rest of your United States put
together. I wouldn't, if I were you, hold them up as any kind of shining
judicial example.
> I don't think it provides a deterrent to violent crime, the stats do not
> support that notion.
They don't, so why do it for anything other than revenge. It certainly
isn't justice. Properly administered justice is tempered with mercy.
> Some say in this modern day and age, capital
> punishment should be a thing of the past, like slavery...
>
That's how the more enlightened and civilised of us (tinu) tend to think.
> ...But try telling that to the parents of a 10 y/o girl raped and
> murdered by a gang of thugs. In a case like that, the victim's family
> should get to "press the button" if they wish.
>
The very last people who should have any part in the disposition of the
convicted criminal are the victims or their family.
> IMHO.
Aardvark
> Yet another bleeding heart liberal speaks out.
I'm not a liberal. I'm a Socialist. Not that one's politics have any
bearing on matters of conscience.
> In the height of the Viet
> Nam war there was a scene played out on the streets. A US soldier had
> captured a man who was caught dealing drugs. He was kneeling on the
> groun with hands tied behind his back.
He was standing. And he was thought to be Vietcong.
> An officer was shown walking by
> the man with pistol drawn and shot the man in the head.
>
The 'officer' was the chief of police of Hanoi.
Not that this has anything to do with judicial killing.
> If I had my way, as many others believe should be done, is to hold
> public executions via firing squad. Load all the weapons with live ammo
> and open fire at the SOB.
You're one sick fuck.
>
> You cry and whine about the state committing murder.
Where did I mention the state committing 'murder'? Cite.
> What about that guy
> who killed others without a care in the world? Why should the state flip
> the bill for his useless existance until he dies of natural causes?
For one thing, in your country it's much, much cheaper. Apart from
ethical considerations.
They don't call you sto0pid for nothing, do they?
§nühw¤£f
following:
> On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 09:11:24 -0600, §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>
> > Mike Easter wrote:
>
> >> closure: for the murder victim's survivors
> >>
> > Revenge. The gift that keeps on giving.
>
> I often see the families of murder victims on TV in this country speaking
> about how they feel closure and can now move on, in interview outside a
> Crown Court building somewhere after the killer has been sentenced to a
> long term in prison.
>
> They obviously don't need judicial killing in order to feel this way.
>
Not that theres any alternative for them anyway.
G. Morgan
>I don't know where to start, so I'll just finish.
>
>You, RtS, proclaim your profound ignorance with each photon.
>
>Mike "electrons, too" Yetto
<snicker> :)
G. Morgan
>If I had my way, as many others believe should be done, is to hold public
>executions via firing squad. Load all the weapons with live ammo and open
>fire at the SOB.
The traditional way (in the US old Western Days) is to have one weapon with a
blank cartridge, out of 3 or more rifleman. None of the shooters knew if their
rifle was the one with the blank.
The reason is to give the shooters some sort of "plausible deniably" (for lack
of a better term), that they were not the one who killed the condemned. This
was mainly for psychological concerns.
Later, machines were invented to make it even more "clean". The executioner
never had to put his finger on the trigger. A Rube-Goldberg type of device was
made. It basically did the killing via multiple rifles rigged up with strings on
the triggers and a initiation "circuit" that took a "hands-off" approach and
disassociated the human(s) from doing the actual deed.
Aardvark
> But it leads me to a concern for how long anyone believes we can sustain
> a consumer-driven economy world-wide?
Two words- planned obsolescence.