city centre 20mph zone proposed

[Dexter Johnstone]

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/content/dam/sheffield/docs/roads-and-pavements/20mph/Proposed%20City%20Centre%2020mph%20Streets.pdf

​

[Douglas Johnson]

Hi Dexter,

 

Thanks for circulating this.  I am not sure that it has been formally advertised yet. I am waiting for some responses from officers on dates but also on questions as to the roads which are still due to remain at 30mph.

 

If anyone has any comments, please let me know!

 

Regards,

Douglas

 

 

Cllr Douglas Johnson,

City Ward, Sheffield

07500 766 189

 

 

 

From: 'Dexter Johnstone' via 20splenty4sheffield [mailto:20splenty...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: 3 July 2017 20:03
To: cyclesh...@googlegroups.com; 20splenty4sheffield
Subject: [20splenty4sheffield] city centre 20mph zone proposed

 

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/content/dam/sheffield/docs/roads-and-pavements/20mph/Proposed%20City%20Centre%2020mph%20Streets.pdf

 

​

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[Dexter Johnstone]

Hi, it's now on the council website as a proposed 20mph zone: 

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/home/roads-pavements/20mph-areas

Dexter

On 3 Jul 2017 9:30 pm, "Douglas Johnson" <djp...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Dexter,

 

Thanks for circulating this.  I am not sure that it has been formally advertised yet. I am waiting for some responses from officers on dates but also on questions as to the roads which are still due to remain at 30mph.

 

If anyone has any comments, please let me know!

 

Regards,

Douglas

 

 

Cllr Douglas Johnson,

City Ward, Sheffield

07500 766 189

 

 

 

From: 'Dexter Johnstone' via 20splenty4sheffield [mailto:20splenty4sheffield@googlegroups.com]
Sent: 3 July 2017 20:03
To: cyclesheffield@googlegroups.com; 20splenty4sheffield
Subject: [20splenty4sheffield] city centre 20mph zone proposed

 

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/content/dam/sheffield/docs/roads-and-pavements/20mph/Proposed%20City%20Centre%2020mph%20Streets.pdf

 

​

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[Ian Loasby]

First thoughts.

Im not saying I agree but I can see why they've kept Sheaf St / Shoreham St , Burton Road to Derek Dooley as 30 mph to complete the ring road and make sure traffic doesn't try to cut across the city centre routes which has been discourages for many years now.,

I would argue there are good reasons for Arundel Gate / Eyre St being reduced to 20mph . They shouldn't really be a through route for vehicles, more an access route and they do separate the growing Hallam Campus and associated developments from the city centre, and in particularly the  Moor area with its growing footfall . Luckily we now have a number of surface level pedestrian crossing so its not quite the inner city motorway barrier it used to be.

Equally Broad Lane separating the bulk of the city centre part of Sheffield University from the huge student developments in S3 could be 20mph .  I thought the long term plan was to dissuade vehicles from the Broad Lane route as a cut through?

Not to sure why the sort run along Gibraltar Street is 30mph  either

Ian

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[Professor Peter Marsh]

Thanks for this Dexter. I’m always of the view that clarity  about when and where the speed limits are is an important part of changing behaviour. So making the inner ring road the boundary for the 20 limit has, in my view, a great deal to commend it. 

It is very odd that a short section of Moore Street is 30, and I agree with Ian that making Eyre Street and Arundel Gate 20 would add city centre cohesion, and meet my point of trying to make the 20 limit easily comprehensible (and signage simple). I hope Cycle Sheffield might be able to take this up if the membership generally agrees.

The same would really apply to Broad Lane, and it does indeed cut across parts of the University and certainly is a major student crossing … but maybe there is some logic in this about trying to spread traffic arriving down Western Bank …

best

pete

Professor Peter Marsh FAcSS

Social Innovation Consultant

University of Sheffield Enterprise, 

& Professor of Child and Family Welfare (Emeritus), Department of Sociological Studies, University of Sheffield, UK

p.m...@sheffield.ac.uk

Personal mobile 0751 551 7564

On 3 Jul 2017, at 22:08, 'Dexter Johnstone' via 20splenty4sheffield <20splenty...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Hi, it's now on the council website as a proposed 20mph zone: 

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/home/roads-pavements/20mph-areas

Dexter

On 3 Jul 2017 9:30 pm, "Douglas Johnson" <djp...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Dexter,

 

Thanks for circulating this.  I am not sure that it has been formally advertised yet. I am waiting for some responses from officers on dates but also on questions as to the roads which are still due to remain at 30mph.

 

If anyone has any comments, please let me know!

 

Regards,

Douglas

 

 

Cllr Douglas Johnson,

City Ward, Sheffield

07500 766 189

 

 

 

From: 'Dexter Johnstone' via 20splenty4sheffield [mailto:20splenty4sheffield@googlegroups.com]
Sent: 3 July 2017 20:03
To: cyclesheffield@googlegroups.com; 20splenty4sheffield
Subject: [20splenty4sheffield] city centre 20mph zone proposed

 

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/content/dam/sheffield/docs/roads-and-pavements/20mph/Proposed%20City%20Centre%2020mph%20Streets.pdf

 

<image002.jpg>
​

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[Dexter Johnstone]

Agree that it is far better to have a blanket 20mph zone than have a variety of speed limits. 

Moore St - seems very odd decision to make 220 metres (0.13miles) of it 30mph. What difference will this make to journey times? You'd think they'd make it all 20mph just to save on sign costs.

On 4 July 2017 at 10:06, Professor Peter Marsh <p.m...@sheffield.ac.uk> wrote:

Thanks for this Dexter. I’m always of the view that clarity  about when and where the speed limits are is an important part of changing behaviour. So making the inner ring road the boundary for the 20 limit has, in my view, a great deal to commend it. 

It is very odd that a short section of Moore Street is 30, and I agree with Ian that making Eyre Street and Arundel Gate 20 would add city centre cohesion, and meet my point of trying to make the 20 limit easily comprehensible (and signage simple). I hope Cycle Sheffield might be able to take this up if the membership generally agrees.

The same would really apply to Broad Lane, and it does indeed cut across parts of the University and certainly is a major student crossing … but maybe there is some logic in this about trying to spread traffic arriving down Western Bank …

best

pete

Professor Peter Marsh FAcSS

Social Innovation Consultant

University of Sheffield Enterprise, 

& Professor of Child and Family Welfare (Emeritus), Department of Sociological Studies, University of Sheffield, UK

p.m...@sheffield.ac.uk

Personal mobile 0751 551 7564

On 3 Jul 2017, at 22:08, 'Dexter Johnstone' via 20splenty4sheffield <20splenty4sheffield@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Hi, it's now on the council website as a proposed 20mph zone: 

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/home/roads-pavements/20mph-areas

Dexter

On 3 Jul 2017 9:30 pm, "Douglas Johnson" <djp...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Dexter,

 

Thanks for circulating this.  I am not sure that it has been formally advertised yet. I am waiting for some responses from officers on dates but also on questions as to the roads which are still due to remain at 30mph.

 

If anyone has any comments, please let me know!

 

Regards,

Douglas

 

 

Cllr Douglas Johnson,

City Ward, Sheffield

07500 766 189

 

 

 

From: 'Dexter Johnstone' via 20splenty4sheffield [mailto:20splenty4sheffield@googlegroups.com]
Sent: 3 July 2017 20:03
To: cyclesh...@googlegroups.com; 20splenty4sheffield
Subject: [20splenty4sheffield] city centre 20mph zone proposed

 

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/content/dam/sheffield/docs/roads-and-pavements/20mph/Proposed%20City%20Centre%2020mph%20Streets.pdf

 

<image002.jpg>
​

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[Simon Geller]

They're not "making it" 30mph though are they? They're just leaving the existing limit in place. There's probably something about it being a distributor road or some such. 

Simon

Simon

Sheffield Cycle Routes

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[Dexter Johnstone]

True. It is how vehicles from the south of the city will get to/from the car parks in the New Retail Quarter.

Given how bad congestion is currently (and how much worse it is likely to get with more people living and working in the city centre and the lack of improvements to public transport and active travel infrastructure) I think it is pretty unlikely that you could drive at 30mph let alone 40mph on roads in the city centre. 

On 4 July 2017 at 11:02, Simon Geller <simonmich...@gmail.com> wrote:

They're not "making it" 30mph though are they? They're just leaving the existing limit in place. There's probably something about it being a distributor road or some such. 

Simon

Simon

Sheffield Cycle Routes

Have you joined the Friends of the Trans Pennine Trail yet? Click here to sign up. 

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[Simon Geller]

That's true but it actually works in favour of implementing at 20 mph zone - the planners think there is more chance of a 20mph zone being successful if speeds are already low, enforcement being yet another missing piece of the jigsaw (in fact how many pieces can you have missing before you no longer have a puzzle?) 

On the ring road, you can get up to 40 in places but it is entirely counter-productive as it just gets you to the next snarl-up more quickly (& leads to more collisions on the roundabouts) plus contributing to poor air quality. 

Simon

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[Douglas Johnson]

Hi - just to let you all know we have been promised some further information this week.

Regards,

Douglas

 

Douglas Johnson (Green Cllr)

City Ward

[richard attwood]

Well it is good to see the City Centre 20mph plan out in the open, and also that SCC are continuing to roll 20 area limits out when one or two other authorities have faltered.

Saying that, Coventry 20'd (and parking restricted) ALL the area in the ring road in 2014, and it feels like a much saner place for it, but then that was part of a bigger project to declutter the area and make it more liveable and people friendly.
Coventry only needed signs/mats etc at the Gateways to the area too, meaning better clarity re where it is and isnt 20 - I do hope SCC are not going to have to end up putting signs /mats at every red bit coming off an orange bit on the plan!

As regards exceptions (30 and 40mph roads) I suppose they will maybe help SCC to defend this plan as it stands, but in reality most of the time (us) drivers are just creating noise, particulate and particle pollution getting our share of metal and glass up to 30 or more to then pull up at the next hold up, putting all road users off using/trying less damaging ways of getting about in the process. (eg using that cycle lane on Shalesmoor...)

Sometime I ago heard one Councillor say the average moving speed of the taxi's in Sheffield is 19 odd mph, a figure governed by the amount of time spent in slow traffic/queues I would think, and which which suggests little is being gained by exceeding 20....

If only SCC/PCC and Police?Local papers etc could be persuaded to pool resources and run a Drive(!) to proactively publicize this and its benefits/do a burst of publicised light touch enforcement etc when it happens.

Any thoughts on how we can push for that?

Roll on GPS controlled cars, with or without drivers!

Richard.

On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Simon Geller <simonmich...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's true but it actually works in favour of implementing at 20 mph zone - the planners think there is more chance of a 20mph zone being successful if speeds are already low, enforcement being yet another missing piece of the jigsaw (in fact how many pieces can you have missing before you no longer have a puzzle?) 

On the ring road, you can get up to 40 in places but it is entirely counter-productive as it just gets you to the next snarl-up more quickly (& leads to more collisions on the roundabouts) plus contributing to poor air quality. 

Simon