Think City Car Dies while Driving - Help

[viccy]

OK, not sure exactly what the problem is - my Think (about 15,000 miles) dies while driving.  There have been other weird things happening like my car stereo clock doesn't advance while the car is turned off and last night, the charging seemed intermittent.  My husband thinks it may be the 12v system.  Anyone have any advice or ideas?

[Myles Twete]

Yeah---Sounds like a 12v battery that needs TLC.  Buy a cheap battery maintainer & plug it into the accessory port (aka “cigarette lighter”) and leave it to trickle charge for a couple days.

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[Howard]

I just replaced my 12v battery. 2011 car, battery is at least 3yrs old but could have been as old as 5 yrs from Manufacturing date or older.  12v battery only charges when key is in run, all other times is not IE, traction battery charging does not charge 12v but depends on the correct 12v voltage. I know it is a pain to change the 12v battery from beneath the car but may be necessary.  Battery type?  replace with similar size and capacity. 12v batterys tend to fail with just sitting.  15,000 miles in 2.5 yrs means a lot of no use of the battery and may be ready to fail or in process of failing.  An easy start in trouble shooting and replacement.

 

2011 blue think

23,000 miles

October 2012 new

 

 

From: 2011-think-ev...@googlegroups.com [mailto:2011-think-ev...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of viccy
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 7:14 AM
To: 2011-think-ev...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Think City Car Dies while Driving - Help

 

OK, not sure exactly what the problem is - my Think (about 15,000 miles) dies while driving.  There have been other weird things happening like my car stereo clock doesn't advance while the car is turned off and last night, the charging seemed intermittent.  My husband thinks it may be the 12v system.  Anyone have any advice or ideas?

 

 

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[Aaron Williams]

I often see it stated that the 12v battery does not charge when the car is plugged in, but if you hook up a volt meter to the 12v battery and then plug the car in you will see that the voltage rises.  I have never checked the amperage input, but it is charging some.  

Sent from my iPad

[John Mayer]

Just to clarify, the 12V battery does charge while the traction battery is charging.  It's only after the traction battery has reached 100% state of charge (and some other criteria) and the charger (internal to the car) clicks off-- only then is the 12V battery not charging.  During this state when the car is plugged in to a EVSE (electric vehicle supply equipment, commonly referred to as a charger) but not charging, there is more load, aka draw, on the 12V battery than if the car was just sitting unplugged.  (You can tell if the car is in this state by looking at the lights on top of the center console.  If both are lit, the traction battery is charging.  If only the right-side light is on, the car is connected to an EVSE but not charging.)  This is why we recommend that you do not leave your car plugged in for several days at a time.  Overnight or even a few days is probably fine, but don't plug your car in and go on a 2-week vacation or else you will find that your 12V battery is dead when you get back.  Depending on how far the 12V battery is discharged after such an incident, you may be able to recharge it and carry on without further problems or it may be damaged and require replacement.

[Aaron Williams]

During this state when the car is plugged in to a EVSE (electric vehicle supply equipment, commonly referred to as a charger) but not charging, there is more load, aka draw, on the 12V battery than if the car was just sitting unplugged. 

Can you explain this statement please?  When the internal car charger has turned off, but the car is plugged in what is drawing on the 12 bolt battery that is not drawing when the plug is pulled?  I have never tested the car for draws, just curious what is "on" when the car is not charging but not drawing during charging.

Aaron

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[vi...@viccy.net]

I replaced the 12v battery and my daughter took it driving and it died on her.  Any other suggestions?

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[John Mayer]

I can't say specifically with any certainty which control modules are still active.  I suspect that the Power Conversion Unit and the Vehicle Control Unit remain "awake" while an EVSE is plugged in but not charging-- maybe the Battery Management System, too.  Aside from the one light on the center console there is nothing else that you would physically notice as a load, just little computers, mostly idling, oscillating their little clocks at however many MHz.  I don't remember having actually measured the draw on the 12V battery in the plugged in/finished charging state, but I suspect it is no more than a few hundred mA compared to the normal 30 mA or so when the car is just sitting unplugged and shut down.

[hirs...@yahoo.com]

All modern vehicles draw current from the 12V battery when sitting idle - even ICE cars.  The microprocessors never really sleep, or else you'd have to wait for them to boot up every time you pushed a lock button or turned the key.  Without a microprocessor running, there would be no security system either.  How is the car to know what to do when you plug in the charger without a brain running somewhere?
Cheers, -Hirsch

[Aaron Williams]

My question was not if cars have parasitic drains.  It was what is on when the car is plugged in, after the charger has turned off but with the connector to land power is plugged in still what is on, but goes off when the connector is pulled.  It is my understanding that the communication that is normally through the data wires of the connector is not functional on the Think, so I am curious what stays active during non-charging. 

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 26, 2015, at 12:59 PM, hirsch56 via 2011 Think EV Owners - Oregon <2011-think-ev...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

All modern vehicles draw current from the 12V battery when sitting idle - even ICE cars.  The microprocessors never really sleep, or else you'd have to wait for them to boot up every time you pushed a lock button or turned the key.  Without a microprocessor running, there would be no security system either.  How is the car to know what to do when you plug in the charger without a brain running somewhere?
Cheers, -Hirsch

On Wednesday, June 24, 2015 at 7:49:56 PM UTC-4, Aaron wrote:

During this state when the car is plugged in to a EVSE (electric vehicle supply equipment, commonly referred to as a charger) but not charging, there is more load, aka draw, on the 12V battery than if the car was just sitting unplugged. 

Can you explain this statement please?  When the internal car charger has turned off, but the car is plugged in what is drawing on the 12 bolt battery that is not drawing when the plug is pulled?  I have never tested the car for draws, just curious what is "on" when the car is not charging but not drawing during charging.

Aaron

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 24, 2015, at 8:51 AM, John Mayer <jo...@hawthorneauto.com> wrote:

Just to clarify, the 12V battery does charge while the traction battery is charging.  It's only after the traction battery has reached 100% state of charge (and some other criteria) and the charger (internal to the car) clicks off-- only then is the 12V battery not charging.  During this state when the car is plugged in to a EVSE (electric vehicle supply equipment, commonly referred to as a charger) but not charging, there is more load, aka draw, on the 12V battery than if the car was just sitting unplugged.  (You can tell if the car is in this state by looking at the lights on top of the center console.  If both are lit, the traction battery is charging.  If only the right-side light is on, the car is connected to an EVSE but not charging.)  This is why we recommend that you do not leave your car plugged in for several days at a time.  Overnight or even a few days is probably fine, but don't plug your car in and go on a 2-week vacation or else you will find that your 12V battery is dead when you get back.  Depending on how far the 12V battery is discharged after such an incident, you may be able to recharge it and carry on without further problems or it may be damaged and require replacement.

On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 9:13 PM, Aaron Williams <aaron...@gmail.com> wrote:

I often see it stated that the 12v battery does not charge when the car is plugged in, but if you hook up a volt meter to the 12v battery and then plug the car in you will see that the voltage rises.  I have never checked the amperage input, but it is charging some.  

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 18, 2015, at 12:29 PM, Howard <hha...@minetfiber.com> wrote:

I just replaced my 12v battery. 2011 car, battery is at least 3yrs old but could have been as old as 5 yrs from Manufacturing date or older.  12v battery only charges when key is in run, all other times is not IE, traction battery charging does not charge 12v but depends on the correct 12v voltage. I know it is a pain to change the 12v battery from beneath the car but may be necessary.  Battery type?  replace with similar size and capacity. 12v batterys tend to fail with just sitting.  15,000 miles in 2.5 yrs means a lot of no use of the battery and may be ready to fail or in process of failing.  An easy start in trouble shooting and replacement.

 

2011 blue think

23,000 miles

October 2012 new

 

 

From: 2011-think-ev...@googlegroups.com [mailto:2011-think-ev-owners-ore...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of viccy
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 7:14 AM
To: 2011-think-ev...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Think City Car Dies while Driving - Help

 

OK, not sure exactly what the problem is - my Think (about 15,000 miles) dies while driving.  There have been other weird things happening like my car stereo clock doesn't advance while the car is turned off and last night, the charging seemed intermittent.  My husband thinks it may be the 12v system.  Anyone have any advice or ideas?

 

 

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[Myles Twete]

The answer depends on software and circumstances.

Assuming you have the latest software or at least the SW that fixes charging problems, John’s earlier answer is a start.

If a car doesn’t have the latest SW with the charging problem fixes, very bad things can happen.  Specifically, charging can stop short, yet the power system and electronics is still all on, resulting in eventually draining both the traction pack and the 12v battery.

So it depends.

-MT

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[hirs...@yahoo.com]

What remains on after the charging ends is the normal J1772 communication which you believe is not used.  It IS used.  The only part of it which is not implemented is the response to the disconnect button on the handle.  All of the other normal J1772 operations continue to be monitored and operated.

[Mike Overton]

Re what 12v drain is present in the Think when hooked to the charger.  I noticed that after the charge is finished, when I unplug the charger there is a "click" that I assume is a relay or contactor de-energizing,  So I assume the power to run that comes from the 12v system.  

Mike

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 6:06 AM, hirsch56 via 2011 Think EV Owners - Oregon <2011-think-ev...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

What remains on after the charging ends is the normal J1772 communication which you believe is not used.  It IS used.  The only part of it which is not implemented is the response to the disconnect button on the handle.  All of the other normal J1772 operations continue to be monitored and operated.

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