Truth about memory - Interesting article

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Ram Lakshminarayanan

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Apr 23, 2014, 11:14:26 PM4/23/14
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Guys

I found this interesting article and thought to share. Good news for aging brains I.e. 'us'.

Cheers

Ram


 

The truth about memory

Date

John Elder

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Ever walked into a room and forgotten why? You are not alone. Many middle-aged people are convinced they are showing signs of early dementia when in fact they are just showing signs of, well, middle age.

The overworked, overcrowded middle-aged mind can be forgiven a few memory lapses.

The overworked, overcrowded middle-aged mind can be forgiven a few memory lapses.

Is it possible, from a scientific point of view, that NSW former premier Barry O'Farrell had a "senior's moment" when he forgot about the $3000 bottle of wine he received as a gift? Kind of.

At 54, O'Farrell is deep into middle age, according to a 2012 study published in the British Medical Journal that found cognitive decline begins at about 45, not at 60 as it was once thought. Already O'Farrell is experiencing some level of age-related memory loss and a slowing of his reasoning processes.

Further, memory loss is exacerbated by stress. As Harvard Medical School's neuroscience newsletter, On The Brain, noted last year in an article on the middle-aged brain, the hormone cortisol – released during the "fight-or-flight" response to stress – can prevent the brain from laying down new memories or from accessing existing ones. Worse, it can damage the hippocampus, the part of the brain most associated with memory storage.

"Excess cortisol can make it difficult to respond to stimuli or retrieve the stored memories needed to guide us in certain situations, a condition that may account for our being bewildered when stressful situations arise," the newsletter reads.

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Well, who wouldn't want to flee the spotlight of a corruption inquiry? So let's leave O'Farrell with that comforting thought and shine a light on all middle-aged folk, the multiple fronts where their lives have become a form of combat, including the nagging worry that they are losing their minds.

Who doesn't want to flee reality when your teens are carrying on like emperors, your ageing parents are on the phone again with a fresh crisis, your divorce is in train, your job may not survive the next round of redundancies, your doctor is rabbiting on about diabetes, your prostate, your lower bowel, your weight, your eyes are demanding glasses, and . . . well, where are the bloody car keys so I can get the hell out?

The overworked, overcrowded middle-aged mind can be forgiven a few memory lapses. So take a breath and tell yourself: "Damned cortisol, that's all it it is." Except it's not.

While it can be galling to realise you can't run or lift heavy objects with the ease you knew as a 20-year-old, it's frightening when you walk from one room to another, full of purpose, only to find yourself standing without a clue as to what task you were in the middle of. Especially if only the other day you left your keys in the front door. And so on.

There was a time you'd laugh it off. Now, in your 40s and 50s, there's a worry that these lapses are the first signs of dementia, that you're one day too soon going to look in the mirror and wonder who that is.

Dementia – and, of course, the dark lord of dementia, Alzheimer's – reached epidemic proportions in Australia five years ago, according to an Access Economics study, commissioned by Alzheimer's Australia.

Last year, the Facing the Health of Australians survey of 5000 people aged 32-55, commissioned by the Australian Medicines Industry, found dementia was second only to cancer as our greatest health concern, more feared than diabetes, obesity or depression. An estimated 280,000 people have dementia in Australia. That number is expected to double by 2030 and reach almost one million by 2050.

In other words, for ageing baby boomers and gen Xers, the epidemic riddling their parents' generation today looms as their own plague of tomorrow. And maybe, recalling when you forgot why you came into a room, it's happening now.

Professor Peter Schofield, executive director of Neuroscience Research Australia, (NeuRA), says the fear that middle-aged people harbour about dementia isn't unreasonable. "It's true that age is the biggest single contributor," but the fear is overblown, he says.

"Yes, as we age our brains shrink. Yes, they slow down a bit. We begin to lose neurons and they aren't replaced at the rate they once were. And so in some measure we are not as sharp or quick as we once were. But in the vast majority of people in their 40s, 50s and 60s, that lack of sharpness is more a function of the complexity of what their brains are dealing with . . . it's more a matter of selective attention than a measure of clinical pathology."

But because dementia is a high-profile issue, "many people are much more anxious about it. Every time they can't find their keys is an impending sign of dementia. Losing your keys is an anxiety issue, not a cognitive one."

Schofield says people "attribute too much to middle age" as a time of mental decline. "It's when you're 70 and 80 years old having a senior moment that you're more likely experiencing mild cognitive impairment. Even then, generally, it's not enough to be lifestyle-disabling."

Kristyn Bates, research assistant professor in experimental and regenerative neuroscience at the University of Western Australia, says the prevalence of middle-aged and older people scaring themselves into wrongly thinking they're losing their minds is so high it has led to the creation of a new area of research – "subjective memory complaint".

"There is nothing wrong with their memory that we can measure. They perform normally. Because it's poorly defined, the prevalence of subjective memory complaint is between 20 to 50 per cent of the elderly population," says Bates.

The key issue here is that the healthily ageing brain doesn't lose memories, they just take longer to retrieve. As Marshall Dalton, a former research assistant at NeuRA, notes in a blog written in part as a response to frequently asked questions, "age-related memory problems are the result of reduced efficiency in communication between brain cells, whereas memory problems in dementia are the result of cell death".

In many instances when our brain seems to be malfunctioning, it's actually taking charge. In that moment when you walk into a room and forget what brought you there, Schofield advises: "Perhaps the task was displaced by a more interesting thought or event. When you forget what you were doing, it's possibly because it wasn't so compelling. Most of us don't have hugely long attention spans."

One of Schofield's's research interests is the genetics of brain function. One of those functions is the ordering of information, and giving priority to certain thoughts and events over others. This includes everything that we consciously see that's going on in the world – our eyes being a physical extension of the brain. The brain takes it all in, both focusing and editing what's happening in front of us.

This leads us to the unnerving issue of false memories – some researchers argue that every long-term memory we have is in some way false. This is because memory is a reconstruction, not a video recollection. When a new memory is acquired it goes through several different processes, firstly at the synaptic level (the junction where information is passed from one nerve cell to another), which takes hours; and then in the hippocampus, the part of the brain where new memories are laid down.

Each time we drag up a memory, it's been altered in some small way because of the circumstances we're in at the time, because of the motivation for recalling it or because new information has somehow mixed in with the original event. Why? It's thought largely to be a function of adaptation, and the brain being efficient.

The net effect is that memories, unless they have been planted by suggestion, are true enough.

Schofield says it could be that memories are moved from one part of the brain to another, like a filing system being shuffled. "The things you think about more are replayed more often. But there's a huge subjective element . . . in often replaying the memory, you form false recollections."

Last year, researchers from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology successfully planted false memories in mice. This was hailed as having great potential for treating sufferers of post-traumatic stress disorder, where bad memories could be edited into happier ones.

There are studies that show older adults are sometimes more likely than younger adults to remember events that never happened, but this may be a self-protective mechanism. A University of Virginia study from 2005, "With Sadness Comes Accuracy; With Happiness, False Memory", found happiness tends to generate false memories, while unhappiness dredges misery.

This isn't to say false memories generate the greater happiness and contentment that people 50 and over are routinely said to experience, but they may be both an expression and reinforcement of that happiness.

The On The Brain newsletter reported a study that found the middle-aged brain screens out negative emotions when confronted with negative images and is otherwise wired to accentuate the positive. It also noted that the brain in middle age may be more resilient that at any other time in life.

In fact, there is growing evidence that the middle-aged brain is more of a good-news story than a sad one.

Bates, of the University of Western Australia, says when she was an honours student in 2000, it was still thought the brain stopped producing neurons past childhood. "We now know that isn't true. Evidence came out last year that the hippocampi [we have a hippocampus in each hemisphere] each makes 700 new neurons every day."

She says that while middle-aged brains begin to lose synapses and there is an associated slowing of some functions, it's now understood that "in middle age people use their brain differently. Both sides of the brain are used to process information, rather than just the one side".

It's not yet understood if this is a natural offset to lost function, but the net result is better communication between both halves, and a greater ability to better judge situations and evaluate information. "What we're seeing is the biological basis for wisdom that comes with ageing."

The best news is that the decline of the brain can be slowed – even repaired – by doing the same things that keep our hearts healthy – exercise, good diet, manage stress. The best exercise seems to be education.

Says Bates: "There's a dogma in neuroscience – the cells that fire together, wire together."

In layman-speak? Use it or lose it.


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Venkatakrishnan Rajaram

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Apr 24, 2014, 12:10:40 AM4/24/14
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Good refresher, Ram. 
yes Brain produces new neurons but if it dies it can not regenerate like liver or skin. So it trains alternate pathways (during rehabilitation). 



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vaidi-idapl

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Apr 24, 2014, 1:52:40 AM4/24/14
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Frineds,

 

Out of circulation for  a few days, drive to Chennai to attend the 100th birthday of my Aunt, who has literally served our family (her brother’s) for four generations and we treat as our own mother.

 

Belated wishes to MSA – good to read the “down memory lane” posts of Viji and Ram, took me down that route too for a brief period.

 

About Swami’s post: I am only wondering on whose advise(?)  you had gone to the temple and for what parikaram? I wish you a very nice common sense attitude to life, which will enable you to enjoy every moment of it, both while it happens and after it happens with enjoyable memories.

 

Ramraj:  I am not very convinced of your arguments about Brahmins – historically, they have been instrumental in bringing new technology to society, to increase the spread the population – actually, only those who did this came to be called Brahmins and after all, being in the same family was the best way to learn the ways when there was a lack of communication tools (from writing to the internet today!). It is despicable that people complain of the priestly class, who generally are taught not the philosophical background of their profession but what is called as “prayogam” i.e application of the agamas. The agamas and sutras as anyway so arbitrary - for example, your own advice to Swami to do prokshanam – I am sure that if there was a post saying that scientically taking bath in temple water will give immortality since the vibrations of the prayers of so many bhakthas has purified it and it is proven to have medicinal value etc., you will be the first to forward it!  It is very easy to blame a small group in the society called Brahmins – please note that if India can boast of having come out of the caste issues, it is mainly due to the Brahmins who fought for the downtrodden!

If today people go the US, nay all the world, look back to the 1960’s and 70’s and you will find that the Brahmins from Tamil Nadu have run away from persecution of the likes of the DK and its stupid followers, have laid the foundation of Indian society abroad.

This is true of Mumbai too – I see so many families who have moved here way back in the 1920’s and have set up the society for Tamilians here.

Yes, Brahmins have been pioneers all over India (not just Tamil Nadu) – Veda Vyasa was a great example of this – he is said to have travelled into deep forests converting erstwhile local tribals to the Vedic way of life.

The taboos Brahmins impose upon themselves like strict diet (note, I do not say vegetarian!), strict marriage rules, way of living etc. are there to allow them to retain their faith under adverse circumstances the face as they spread around!

I regret that the guy who is having the homam done at home due to his own greed (more wealth, removal of some dosham or anything) is cribbing at the guy who is doing it for him for his greed.

We are ready to pay Rs. 80 for a simple idli-wada, but will not allow our Purohit to charge us more!

The agamas and sutras have been subject to modification throughout history and we can practically do what we want and call it as per the sutras – only our bowing to some local authority (kanchi mutt or xyz mutt or some guru) puts some semblance of order.

Look at each function you have attended over your life of 50 years and see the difference in the performance , you will understand what I mean.

 

A final word on this: Ramraj, please do not interpret this that I am a Brahmin(???) friend and I am objecting – I am just putting up a view point. I am not in any way hurt or troubled by your post. Please continue posting.

 

 

Viji: Here is one more “miracle” for your records – more closer, since it is related to Sai. During my trip home, Chitra wanted to go the Sai Samaj, Mylapore and have darshan. I was telling her that nowadays there is a lot of crowd and there is no point is waiting for darshan, and more typical of my style, I told her that the door of our house is as good as Saibaba and she can have darshan of that door  - after all, Sai Samaj was brought to Chennai by Sri Narasimhaswamiji and as we all know, doors and footsteps are a favoured by Narasimha. Well, after a few words, we left for Mylapore to buy some appalams and vadams. Well, after buying all these things, I thought that instead of making a U-turn, I will go around the tank and come back to Egmore. Wonder of wonders, when I reached the south west corner, there was an election procession and we were allowed only to go straight and past the Sai Samaj – mark this, we found that the temple was empty and we just had to walk in to have a darshan. We went in, sat down for a brief meditation and since it was 12, Arati started. We saw the full Arati and then left. From no-darshan to full-darshan due to an election procession – who said election precessions has no use? Do I call this the pull of Sai? What if we had been directed to the left and we ended having a darshan of Hanuman? Will I vote for the party who took out the electrion procession? Will my wife vote?  Such are the deep questions in life!

 

Sorry guys, three days of no posting and so ….

 

 

Vaidi.

 

 

 

Ram Lakshminarayanan

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Apr 24, 2014, 3:19:09 AM4/24/14
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Vaidi

Welcome back!

'miracles' - my take on it is as follows. Things just happen and we attach the importance or meaning to them or interpret in the way they suit us either consciously or otherwise. You getting diverted would have happened anyways if you happened to be at that location and at that time. However you correlated that to the event from the immediate past. Just imagine if it wasn't Sai temple but a movie that you had planned. You probably would have been equally happy with the outcome. By the way my wife narrated pretty similar incident when she was on a temple tour recently. She was so happy that her God made it happen. Is that a miracle, may be! All things in life are miracles in a way.  Problem starts when much importance is attached to these so called miracles because when they don't happen the disappointment is far worse. 

On your points on Brahmins - agree with your view. My dad had written a four volume book on the history of contributions by Brahmins to the Indian society. What was amazing is that it was so popular that he had few more reprints. He would get calls from different parts of the world asking for a copy. 

Having said that i guess Ramraj is perhaps reflecting on the falling standards that are usually attached to that profession. But again if we look around almost all such professions which were once revered including teachers, doctors etc have fallen down in the high standard and esteem that they used to be held in the past. Or may be it's just that they are changing as with the rest of the society and it's perhaps our perception about them that has to change with time. 

Cheers

Ram


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vaidi-idapl

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Apr 24, 2014, 4:21:52 AM4/24/14
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Ram,

 

True, true.

If your father’s book is available in soft copy, I would like to read it.

 

I would say that people are not falling in the standards, actually people’s standards of performance is actually increasing – previously, one sastrigal going to several houses for ceremonies was unheard of, nowadays this is standard. In our house for example, we always end up doing the devasam (short for Varushabdhiga divasam) close to 2 pm since the sastrigal comes last to our house and has food here – this is definitely increased productivity and as of now, we have not had any special call of dissatisfaction from our pitrs of anybody, so presumably, there is no drop in quality.

 

 

Vaidi.

Yogesh

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Apr 24, 2014, 7:47:13 AM4/24/14
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Brilliant ram. Wonderful. Would be happy to have your dad's book. 

Getting to read bharathiar's Bhagavad Gita. 

Miracle is something we attach an event and our mind. 

All he says is leave it to HIM as he is performing so well for us

Yogi in his lecture says all we are going through is jus a dream and you realise when you die. After death When u get mingled with the parra bhramam u get the same feel of what happens when you wake up from a dream. 

Amazing theory. But these yogis have gone to the extreme and have understood these and what they believe is try and communicate their experiences. 

Most of the people tend not to trust    Unfortunately they have not experienced it. It is important to take these inputs. 

What can be the greatest teaching from Gita. Detached attachment. 

Miracles, gods and everything is bound to happen as it exists here only. How one gets to view and relate and how you experience the divine is absolutely individually led. 

Can never get to convince someone easily. 

Yogi



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vaidi-idapl

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Apr 24, 2014, 8:18:24 AM4/24/14
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Yogi,

 

What a difference language makes to the point!

 

HIM (or HER or IT) is like the miracle – an event/phenomenon in our mind. Not just parabrahman, but something as simple as color perception, sound perception is difficult to communicate to somebody – you can read up on the word “qualia” – so, not being able to communicate an experience when there is no common symbolism is just another fact of this life.

 

My point has always been that most of the talk and discussion is simply much ado about nothing – and since we do not want to do nothing or at least seen doing nothing, we must produce enough discussion to make the nothing seem something and finally, if we want to really feel important and great about it, we need make the nothing seem like everything. Our brain has actually evolved to do something like this all the time – most of the time the brain does top down analysis rather than bottom up.

 

Vaidi.

 

 

 

 

From: 1982...@googlegroups.com [mailto:1982...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Yogesh
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 5:17 PM
To: 1982...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Truth about memory - Interesting article

 

Brilliant ram. Wonderful. Would be happy to have your dad's book. 

vaidi-idapl

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Apr 24, 2014, 8:47:17 AM4/24/14
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Ram,

 

I had commented some time back about a book by Schacter, the seven sins of memory – have a look at it.

 

Does the “Use it or Lose it”  concept go against our own meditation techniques like keeping the mind quiet etc – I am not sure. Or is it that just like we tell a starving man to eat well and an obese one to shut his mouth, we need to tell stressed guys to keep the mind quiet and others to use the brain more? In which case, our great sages were so stressed that they had to constantly work at keeping the mind quiet? Or were they trying out the techniques so that they can pass it on to their inheritors? Did they understand that the experiments they were trying can actually interfere with their results? If so, did they correct their methods before passing them on?

 

Well, well, well – it reminds me the of the story of the Kings physician – the king held him responsible to get back hair on his balding top upon the threat of the gallows. The wily physician gave the king a medicine and told him that he needs to take it first thing in the morning thinking of  karmegha kuzhal – but on the condition that on no account should the thought of a mango enter his mind at that time. Needless to say, the king remained a sottai and the physician lived a long and normal life.

 

Regards,

 

Vaidi.

 

 

 

 

 

From: 1982...@googlegroups.com [mailto:1982...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ram Lakshminarayanan
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 8:44 AM
To: 1982batch
Subject: Truth about memory - Interesting article

 

Guys

 

I found this interesting article and thought to share. Good news for aging brains I.e. 'us'.

 

Cheers

 

Ram

 

 

 

The truth about memory

Date

April 20, 2014

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Ever walked into a room and forgotten why? You are not alone. Many middle-aged people are convinced they are showing signs of early dementia when in fact they are just showing signs of, well, middle age.

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Image removed by sender. The overworked, overcrowded middle-aged mind can be forgiven a few memory lapses.


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S Anand

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Apr 24, 2014, 8:50:01 AM4/24/14
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Visu unkitta pichai vaanganum Vaidi!! As ever was laughing out loud!!

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Yogesh

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Apr 24, 2014, 9:05:41 AM4/24/14
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Anand. Unfair. Vaidi was commenting something seriously of nothing. 
He is making something out of nothing and he relates to the no thing created by something. 
And you are relating to visu who is a thing. 

Hehehehe

Yogi

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On 24-Apr-2014, at 6:20 pm, S Anand <mctm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Visu unkitta pichai vaanganum Vaidi!! As ever was laughing out loud!!

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S Anand

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Apr 24, 2014, 9:10:23 AM4/24/14
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Dream – death – wake up எல்லாம் ஒண்ணும் கிடையாதுமா!! We are in the laboratory of some aliens.  They had come and planted the seeds of men/women and guided us to progress.  We call them mahaans and the western world calls them genius (Socrates, Einstein all from western world.  Adi Sankara, Buddha, Confucius  and other Mahaans are from the Eastern world). அஷ்டே!! 

 

The message is the same in all holy books are trying to say.  Jesus is coming-ன்னாலும் சம்பவாமி யுகே யுகே-ன்னாலும் – All means the same.  One day when their experiment gets over or when their funding gets exhausted or get additional funding, the aliens will come and wipe us all and start planting another species afresh, may be superior to homo-sapiens.  Their first experiment was dinosaurs, which was a failure, which did not think as much as it did in Spielberg’s movies.  So they wiped it all in one go and start us afresh.

 

Keep an open-mind and think about what I said – with a smile, you will agree… “yeah.. there is some truth in what he says…”.

 

Anyways, before an alien comes to sodomize me, let me enjoy my weekend – I am off to a place called Fujairah about 350 kms. from Abu Dhabi.  My friend has a 4 bedroom villa.  Just a weekend resort for me, my wife and daughter.  Yipeee!!! Planning to go para-sailing!! 

 

Loving regards, Anand


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Ram Lakshminarayanan

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Apr 25, 2014, 7:07:49 AM4/25/14
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Vaidi

Isn't training the mind to be quiet in a way using it? My view is that constant use of anything wears it down rapidly. That applies for mind / brain too. So some of these techniques could be useful. The same way we would go to gym, play a game or do yoga or whatever one prefers to keep the body fit. You need to balance out to prolong the expire-by date. Will it actually prolong our lives or quiet our minds can be questioned but the likelihood of that is probably higher than when doing nothing. In other words 'use it' is important but 'don't abuse it' is equally important.

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Ram Lakshminarayanan

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Apr 25, 2014, 7:14:27 AM4/25/14
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Anand

Whose lab experiment are your aliens, being experimented to see how good are they at experimenting with the humans and when will they be purged? 

Just kidding. Nice funny theory. Good creative parallel thoughts. 

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Sivakumar Venugopal

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Apr 25, 2014, 7:19:04 AM4/25/14
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Ram,
Nice article and retrospectives to it. Enjoyed reading this debate thoroughly. But isn't it so that the mind does'nt wear off by itself. Its probably the other connecting factors related to refreshing the mind which wears down in turn bringing down the minds efficacy as age progresses. Moreover, as one ages, his focus on a work being done, be it reading writing , cooking, talking, or anything decreases , wherein anything which is done without focus or concentration decreases the minds memory abilities, thus reducing memory. Whereas , when young , whatever mostly done is being done with lot of concentration, enthusiasm, focus, interst or whatever you may call and this enhances ones memory. Leave alone disorders like dementia or amnesia or selective amnesia ( which all our politicians have , invariably) mind activites are mostly correlated to how good you can keep it active, might be the question. Correct me if I am wrong??
V. Siva

Ram Lakshminarayanan

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Apr 25, 2014, 7:25:13 AM4/25/14
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Yogi, Vaidi & Swami

Many thanks for your interest. We did pdf a number of his books. I will check the archives and if this book is available will forwarded it to you all. If not we should have some copies of the physical book at out chennai home and will be most happy to share it with you all. 

Interestingly this morning my daughter stumbled upon a blog post which had a caricature of my dad. Pretty accurate picture. Here is the link:

Regards

Ram


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Krishna Shankar

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Apr 25, 2014, 7:44:24 AM4/25/14
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Ram
Please include me too...

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vaidi-idapl

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Apr 25, 2014, 7:44:50 AM4/25/14
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Learning is at the max during the first year when there is actual increase in brain volume – thereafter, it flattens out.

 

I read an interesting theory about the working of the brain (a paper by Dr. Calvin) and it goes like this:  at any point of time, the neurons are voting for different thoughts/ideas – the most populous wins in the sense that other non-party neurons slowly get converted to the popular view point and in time, most neurons vote the same.

When we focus on a single thought, in time, probably most of our neurons whether they will be normally involved in the thought or not will start voting for the thought. It may become so prevalent that neurons who job is to vote based on sensory input also start voting for the forced thought of the majority – in some cases, this can be seen as intense concentration. There is no relationship to the “productivity” of the brain and this concentration, unless the forced thought is otherwise useful at a later time.

 

Essentially what we are doing is that we are creating vasanas (borrowed from Chinmayananda) in our neurons which make them vote again and again for similar signals  - understanding this mechanism an definitely lead to better learning techniques. This has been beautifully captured in the following verse of the Gita: (Chapter 2, Verses 62,63)

http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/png/verse-02-61-4.png

http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/png/verse-02-62-4.png

Clearly, this guy has understood the effect of focus and concentration!

 

Anand: You would need to account for living beings other than humans in the alien experiment, I think.

 

Vaidi.

 

 

Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 4:49 PM
To: 1982...@googlegroups.com

image001.png
image002.png

Ram Lakshminarayanan

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Apr 25, 2014, 8:56:35 AM4/25/14
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For sure Krishna.

Sent from my iPad

swaminathan aiyar

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Apr 25, 2014, 9:05:59 AM4/25/14
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Ram so your daughter was able to locate a picture of your Dad just when someone asked. Coincidence or??????

Ram Lakshminarayanan

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Apr 25, 2014, 9:09:15 AM4/25/14
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Swami

Totally unrelated and guess what I did not even begin to associate they way you just did. My reaction was more like 'wow someone chose to honor dad'. Interesting.

Sent from my iPad

swaminathan aiyar

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Apr 25, 2014, 9:11:02 AM4/25/14
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I confess I was trying to pull it ur leg.....

Ram Lakshminarayanan

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Apr 25, 2014, 9:09:15 AM4/25/14
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Swami

Totally unrelated and guess what I did not even begin to associate they way you just did. My reaction was more like 'wow someone chose to honor dad'. Interesting.

Sent from my iPad

On 25 Apr, 2014, at 9:06 pm, "swaminathan aiyar" <swaminat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Vijay Krishnasamy

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Apr 25, 2014, 7:51:17 PM4/25/14
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Friends, yesterday late afternoon my wife wanted me to come with her for a Ramayanam discourse given by Swami Sachithananda (who is based in Melbourne), but he comes to Sydney for his followers sake. Just before she called me to accompany her (like a second fiddle), I opened my inbox and saw so many emails from you guys and got interested to read all of them. Hence I told her that I have a bit of head-ache and would like to rest at home. Watching her and my daughter leave from my room window, the moment she drove out of our garage and passed the drive way, I started reading all your guys' emails one by one and was thoroughly enjoying the read. I was thinking twice (in fact thrice), whether to write or not, as I felt that I may sound like a dumbo in the middle of the scholarly writings of the subject matter experts like Vaidi, Swami, Ram, Anand, Ramraj, Yogi, Siva and our other friends. Though couldn't disagree with most of you guys in your own view points (flavored with Vaidi's rationalism, Swami's anger or intolerance for imperfection, Anand's humor, Ramraj and Siva's bhakti, Ram's logical approach, Yogi's own Yogism, etc.), the one which echoes my opinion was Venky's earlier email on this, the essence of which I interpreted as (pardon me if I got it totally wrong Venky):

"In the broader span or great scheme of things, we are all a small part and we have to play it happily No one is better than the other, though some may think so. Universal acceptance of all sects and methods, love and compassion, detachment in attachment is the essence of spirituality or the real purpose in practicing any religion. Having said so, as human beings, we are all subject to greed (not just any single community or person alone) in our own ways, which in my opinion is also ok, as long as it doesn't harm or cheat or swindle other people. Greed develops from our own selfishness and insecurity, thinking we have to acquire more and more for our safety, comforts and our children's bright future. This own security we seek, in the end leads us to slavery, really (it's like a dog trying to catch its own tail). The same wealth I acquire thinking of my children's future, is going to make my children enemies of each other, after I am gone (yet I do it, that's my stupidity, ignorance or maya). The one who breaks this maya and helps or guides others towards this truth alone is the real guru (to mention a few here, are Adhishankara, Ramana Maharishi, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Chithanya Mahaprabhu, Bodhendra Swamigal, Kanchi periya periyavar, and many others of that order, no matter what religion or community they were originally born. I am not talking about any fakes in clad get-up here)".

Guys, pls bear with me for saying all these philosophical words, though I am more of a talker (not a real practitioner, which I agree with Swami ). The reason I am writing this is because this is true understanding or what really appeals to my heart in this subject. If you talk about lust (or Kama) in some other email discussion, then I will talk about Mallu Reshma or Mariya as my favorites. 

Ram, saw you father's photo and from my memory of your boyhood, you had a lot of resemblance of him (more like father than mother, I assume). I will also be very interested to read you father's books that you've mentioned (especially while taking long flights). I can buy my copies, if you can send me the titles or store or the site where it is available. Down the memory lane, Mtcm, Quadrangle reminds me of hand tennis (with rubber/tennis ball) than prayers followed by some teacher's talk, and also reminds me of watching our Selva Ganapathy, walking with an everlasting smile or serenity on his face always (like I don't confront or I don't care about these illusions), while waiting for my turn for a hand tennis game when other matches are on.

Regards
Vijay K


From: Ram Lakshminarayanan <majorr...@hotmail.com>
To: "1982...@googlegroups.com" <1982...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 25 April 2014 9:25 PM

Subject: Re: Truth about memory - Interesting article

vaidi-idapl

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Apr 26, 2014, 1:27:21 AM4/26/14
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Viji,

 

Great that you took the time to read our ramblings and write about them.

I have only one request: please read what you wrote again and tell me if this is not simple common sense? Is it not natural for man to realize this? Do we need “great” gurus to tell us that we should be happy in life? Or for that matter religion?

 

I would like to draw your attention to a proverb: Everything that glitters is not gold – please do not consider me an expert at all from what I write, though on many occasions I sound so. I write this not from any sense of humility – this is a fact.

 

We may have different levels of skill in our professions, but when it comes to life, every man is made to live and hence comes with all the were withal to live it happily.

 

Seeing the posts and discussions, I am only thinking of our teachers who have managed to lay the foundation to make us like this! How proud they would be!

 

Vaidi.

swaminathan aiyar

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Apr 26, 2014, 2:57:21 AM4/26/14
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Dear Ramraj
Very said to see your kudamuzhukku experience. Let me also see if I can give my contacts next time. Now, I have some good experience with these priests and I tell them upfront about my expectations.

Dear Vijay
I too am impressed like what Vaidi said  about your inputs on our observations. Let me assure you that I do not have an intolerance for imperfection -- far from it, expecting a temple tank to have clean water is fair. Come on, its not too much to expect. Its not a mistake, daaa to expect a temple tank to be clean




Vijay Krishnasamy

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Apr 26, 2014, 4:08:25 AM4/26/14
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Swami and Vaidi, thanks for your replies. Take it this way, if you two take 95% normally in Maths, you don't need separate tuition with Venku vathiyar, KND or Yackub like masters. If I struggle to take 40 to 50 % in math, then my option to get better in math, is to may be work harder in math, or seek help/tuition from a good math teacher. To my understanding, same principle applies in religion or spirituality. 

Vaidikkum, Swamikkum thamathu pathiyil thelivum, deeramum, sadhanai balamum irrukum patchathil avargalukku Guruvin avasiyum illai. Mer kuriya thaguthigalo, punniya palano, suyambu gnanamo illatha ennai pondra pala samanya manithargalukku, aanmiga pahityal munnera oru uthama gurvin thunai avasiyam thevai. Please note, I said uthama guru here. Let's not even consider guys like (Ranjitha) Nithayananda here for the term Guru and debate on their short comings (sure there are many better and evolved guys in our own friends group then these fakes). A uthama guru should be like Anjaneya, who identified Vibishana as a righteous person seeking liberation (though he grew up in the middle of rakshasas) and got him into the sanga of God Rama (thaan muthalil Kadavulai vunarnthu, avani pin pattrum nalla sishyanai kadavulidam konda serkka kudiya thaguthi vudayavaney Guru endra pathathirkku vuriyavan. The God here can be Krishna, Muruga, Allah, Jesus, Supreme Self (Atma), etc..., it doesn't matter).

Regards
Viji K


From: swaminathan aiyar <swaminat...@gmail.com>
To: 1982...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 26 April 2014 4:57 PM

govindarajan manoharan

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Apr 26, 2014, 8:57:49 AM4/26/14
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hi viji, this is manohar.  do you remember me.  i could see SAKTHI KRISHNASWAMY in your mails.  keep it up. godliness resides in humility. you r humble man.........

 
 Govind Manohar

swaminathan aiyar

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Apr 26, 2014, 9:36:58 AM4/26/14
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Dear Vaidi
You are splitting spiritual hairs. You are saying you don't believe in God but in the concept of God. I hope I misread. Else, it seems to be some very adroit wordplay to cover up the fact you are still God-fearing. 
Lets get this straight. Are you religious or not? Don't bullshit around the topic, bud.
You believe in God or not? Don't give this story about concept and crap.

Dear Viji
Excellent analysis. I cannot speak for Vaidi. We all need a Guru. I did have an Astrologer Guru. In fact, he used to look at his ring and the words would start flowing.  When my Dad or Grandma took me there first time round, he said this boy will not go to the US for higher studies now. At that time, I was sitting  pretty  on my ass, with 6 admission offers from premier US universities. And was scheduled to leave in a month, I think. I was very upset and told him he was being very negative. He said NO. Exactly, as he predicted, there was some glitch. In fact, I have written this earlier on my forum, this incident, that is. You will go to the US on your own but not to the US first but to England first, he said. I felt he was going crazy. After all, no decent Indian boy wanted to go to England in those days. It was US, it was Michael Jackson and Mike Tyson that mattered.  A few years later, I went to England first as part of my job and only then to the US. It was when I was waiting in Heathrow airport or boarding a flight that I remembered this gentleman's words. 

Sadly that gentleman is no longer around. When I came back from onsite ( I tried calling him from Wales but he was not responding), I heard he was no more. Tell me, and I mean this with regret and bitterness, can one of the so-called Gurus today predict where the missing Malaysian plane is. Chances are high it is being cloaked with invisible technology and being held in some Indian Ocean island hangar. This is one of the latest conspiracy theories.
If Kanchi Maha Periyavar ( the earlier Sankaracharya prior to this Jayendra Saraswathi) had been present, I do know he would have spoken out or helped.  When Rajiv Gandhi was about to get assassinated, Periyavar asked TN Seshan, then Election Commissioner to send a fax to Sonia asking her to stop  Rajiv ( that fax is still available in PMO records, I gathered after reading India Today or some other mag).
Today, we have Gurus who sit in Air conditioned halls and as Vaidi said, ask their followers to wave their hands as we used to do in our school quadrangle with our PT Teacher Sam blowing his whistle.And the most intelligent IT professionals, Lawyers, Architects, Advisors sit in those halls like dumb-ass guys, waving , chanting something. Why ? Because of the agony in their lives, they want to believe in mumbo-jumbo. 
Guys, do you remember this? Vijay Mallya of the Kingfisher airlines was seen with Sri Sri Ravishankar for ages, he said he believed in religion ( that year, the Goa beach parties were a little defocussed, right?) and that he believed in justice, fairplay blah. So where is he now? Where is Kingfisher? 






swaminathan aiyar

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Apr 26, 2014, 9:45:43 AM4/26/14
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And Kingfisher employees are selling their household goods due to non-payment of salaries by Kingfisher. While Vijjay Mallya sits and watches the IPL match between RCB and KKR, Source - Read the Times of India. Excellent value indoctrination by his Gurus!!

regards
Swami

Vijay Krishnasamy

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Apr 26, 2014, 6:28:17 PM4/26/14
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Hi Manohar, haven't heard from you for a while, glad to see your email. On behalf of all of your friends, welcome. Your name rings bells in my mind, let me get my guts, If my memory serves right (pardon me, if I am wrong and refresh my memory about yourself), were you in one of the off streets of Tana street and your father was in politics for some time ? Have you or your father got any connection with Bright and White ?


From: "'govindarajan manoharan <rishi...@yahoo.com>' via MCTM82BATCH" <1982...@googlegroups.com>
To: "1982...@googlegroups.com" <1982...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 26 April 2014 10:57 PM

Ravi Chandran

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Apr 27, 2014, 5:33:09 AM4/27/14
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Dear Vijay,

You are right about G Manohar.  His father was MLA during DMK period those days and he was a friend of the owner of Bright and White Laundry.  My father also knows him because all of them (incuding former Dy. Speaker of Parliament Mr. Lakshmanan) meet regularly in the evenings at Bright & White Laundry.

Manohar, hope I am correct.

Ravi G

Vijay Krishnasamy

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Apr 27, 2014, 5:56:16 AM4/27/14
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Thanks Ravi, that's make me feel a bit happy thinking, this (growing) old boy, is still not near dimensia or whatever other scary mental conditions/theories, the intellectual guys in our group are discussing about.

Manohara, pls confirm.

Regards
Vijay K


From: Ravi Chandran <gr_ch...@yahoo.co.in>
To: "1982...@googlegroups.com" <1982...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, 27 April 2014 7:33 PM

Venkatakrishnan Rajaram

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Apr 27, 2014, 12:32:35 PM4/27/14
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​Viji,
you reflected my thoughts but I respect the views of your thinking and others.
Like Siva mentioned in his poem, we can not comment until we are in their shoes.
I am amazed with memory of everyone and recollection of school days.
It was fun and memorable. Hope everyone's family are doing well.
Regards,
Venky . 
 



Vijay Krishnasamy

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Apr 27, 2014, 11:59:57 PM4/27/14
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Thanks Venky, may be I cherish my school days and boyhood days more than my overseas professional days (can't forget the lovely parents and siblings, school friends, more relaxing life we had by then in Madras compared to the machine existence now, our G Koil street where I grew up (and the families/friends there) - even remember Anand's grand mother Mrs. Kalyan(i), who used to do Tulasi puja at the Tulsi madam they had in his grandpa's house, which was diagonal to my house, where I'll be sitting at times in their verandah, closer to their house's green iron gate, next to the entrance steps of the house, while Anand's grand mother will light agal villaku in in that thulasi madam lamp slot, pour some holy water from a brass container to the thulasi plant, and go around it few times chanting some mantra, and in the end she'll come near me and give me few thulasi leaves to chew as prasad, saying "Enthada 'Vijayan' (that's how she used to call me); what a pious, loving and caring lady she was ...

All at my home are doing well Venky, wish and hope the same for you. Venky, pardon my ignorance in asking this, are you a Doctor by any chance ? if so where you did your medical degree(s), in India or/and USA, are you GP or a Surgeon or a Specialist or what, where do you practice these days; if not a medico then how do you write so many scientific and medical terms ?

Regards
Viji K

From: Venkatakrishnan Rajaram <srive...@gmail.com>
To: "1982...@googlegroups.com" <1982...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, 28 April 2014 2:32 AM

vaidi-idapl

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Apr 28, 2014, 12:16:27 AM4/28/14
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Viji, the comparison with math tuition is unfortunately not implemented – the math teacher concerns himself with only the subject and the issue the student has with it. The student will not automatically follow the math teacher when he says, turn the pen around your head 4 times before answering the first question, change it in the your hands 3 times before you answer the next question – note, girl students should do it 5 times and 2 times respectively (ala Jaggi) – the students will laugh at him. I cannot imagine any student who is feeling so insecure that he will follow these instructions – but this exactly what is happening with the Gurus nowadays – uthama or otherwise. I can understand when one student suggests that we will give teacher a cake or chocolate during an important day – his birthday or the day after the exams or results – but when a student decides to worship the teacher daily morning with flowers and insists that only those other students who do this are good and those who do not do are doomed or the Guru demands (many times subtly) implicit obedience and blind following and further, says that only such blind following will get results (ala Chaitanya) there is something wrong with the model.

 

I am sorry, Viji,  though the example is correct, what happens actually in this spiritual guide business is not such a clean relationship as between a “weak” student and teacher.

 

I have heard many of Saivete literature which laud Ravana and the culture of Lanka except for his weakness for Sita – if this is so, then no wonder Vibheeshana would be quite deserving since he had not found his Sita yet. The drama of Vibheeshana crossing over to Rama’s side ala Laloo in the centre was purely political strategy and there is nothing noble or ignoble about it.

 

I am sure that some flock of Nithyananda would exist who would probably not take your statement about him equanimously! Any takers for Sishyadom of Nithyananda among our group?

 

The beauty of the human brain is that it allows diametrically opposite and maybe inconsistent ideas to coexist: on the one hand any god is ok and in another one can recite “mam ekam sharam vraja” (take refuge only in me) and “anyatha sharan na asthi, twameva charanam mama” (nobody but you is my refuge)!

govindarajan manoharan

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Apr 28, 2014, 12:37:55 PM4/28/14
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yes Mr. Vijayakumar you are right.
 
 Govind Manohar

vaidi-idapl

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Apr 28, 2014, 1:09:58 PM4/28/14
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Does anybody from Chidambaram Chettiar remember a guy called Kandappan – Yogesh/Srini, you may be able to remember this guy.

He used to sing the song “Come along sing with me” as “Shavarong bembosi” at the top of his voice standing on the bench. Dark guy with longish face (at that time).

 

Vaidi.

swaminathan aiyar

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Apr 28, 2014, 1:29:44 PM4/28/14
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Muthu I am wondering why you are silent about V Manoharan. He had a dhaadi while studying in AC Tech. 


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ccpl1 .

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Apr 28, 2014, 2:46:25 PM4/28/14
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Simple. I dont remember him.

Muthu.


Vijay Krishnasamy

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Apr 29, 2014, 4:21:05 AM4/29/14
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Vaidi, you know I am from Chidambaram Chettiar too, but honestly can't place this guy Kandappan ?! What about this guy, what news, can't see any photo attached to your email as well ?

Regards
Viji K


From: vaidi-idapl <va...@idapl.in>
To: 1982...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 29 April 2014 3:09 AM
Subject: RE: Truth about memory - Interesting article

Does anybody from Chidambaram Chettiar remember a guy called Kandappan – Yogesh/Srini, you may be able to remember this guy.
He used to sing the song “Come along sing with me” as “Shavarong bembosi” at the top of his voice standing on the bench. Dark guy with longish face (at that time).
 
Vaidi.
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swaminathan aiyar

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Apr 29, 2014, 4:34:46 AM4/29/14
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Dear Vijay did u work with Schumacher at any ot of time

Vijay Krishnasamy

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Apr 29, 2014, 4:50:30 AM4/29/14
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No Swami garu, why and what it has to do with Kandappan ?


From: swaminathan aiyar <swaminat...@gmail.com>
To: 1982...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 29 April 2014 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: Truth about memory - Interesting article

Srinivasan Kalyanasundaram

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Apr 29, 2014, 5:02:23 AM4/29/14
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Vaidi,

I remember Kandappan who studied in MCTM Chidambaram chettiar - D Section.
We were batch mates in DG Vaishnav college, studied studied BCom together.
However i don't have his present contact details.

Srini



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