Disclaimer:
The following is reproduced under "Fair Use"
Do NOT distribute for commercial gain.

Part I

Information about "Ray Gordon", the fictitious internet pseudonym used by Gordon Roy
Parker.
This page contains information about Ray Gordon, a dangerous harasser who abuses
usenet newsgroups. Some recent email addresses were variations of The Seduction
Library coming from AOL accounts, Prior to that he was posting from variations of
ray__...@juno.com or outfo...@juno.com but it is likely that since he spammed so
many newsgroups using Juno headers, that he was finally banned from their system
somehow. Ray also seems to have been TOSsed from AOL as he no longer can post to
usenet from AOL. At the moment his email addresses are: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS"
r...@cybersheet.com and cave...@nni.com. The posting host he is currently using is
Altopia.net, or alt.net. In any case, it is well known that he uses several screen
names at the same time. If you are new to the alt.sports.gymnastics, alt.romance,
soc.singles, soc.men, soc.women, rec.sports.gambling or alt.seduction.fast
newsgroups, please read through this page.

Who is this Ray Gordon person?
Why does this page exist?
Where else does he write?
How do you know that the writer is Ray?
What screen names and e-mail addresses does Ray use?
What AOL member profiles does he have?
How many people has he driven out of the Internet?
Disclaimer

I want to point out that this FAQ is based on USENET articles written by Ray himself.
A lot of the examples are about Dominique Moceanu as they are examples of how
obsessed Ray is about her. In fact there is so much material to use that only a small
fraction is used in the FAQ. Ray Gordon has accused Dominique Moceanu of being behind
this FAQ. I want to point out that Dominique Moceanu is NOT behind this page. I, as
the author of RayFAQ, have never met Dominique Moceanu. I don't even know anything
about her and I am not a gymnastics fan. I do feel sorry for anyone that is
unfortunate enough to be the target of Ray's sickness though.

One of the things that has people up in arms is the group of posts that Ray published
regarding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center, The
Pentagon, and the hijacked airliner that crashed in eastern Pennsylvania. These
posts, along with selected responses have been incorporated into this document, and
many of Ray's new email addresses have been added.

Ray is also accusing me of only telling one side of the story. I publish all the
negative e-mail and especially anything that Ray will send me.If Ray wants to tell
his side of the story, he should e-mail it to ray...@email.com and everything will
get published.

Ray has taken lately to crossposting as much as he can, due to the new moderated
newsgroups that have been put up by an enterprising regular from alt.seduction.fast.
Seems like Ray is unhappy about that, so he's doing all he can to diminish the
credibility of the new groups, and this has started yet another flame war across all
of the usenet newsgroups to which Ray posts regularly. This has resulted in a totally
new rash of people who are not familiar with the years-long pattern of Ray's posts,
and his voluminous posting history. This has prompted the republishing of this
document, with its new additions.

Ray is currently taking the position that anything written about his posts and him
personally is a slanderous, libelous, and defamatory conspiracy. It is almost a
certainty that once this new FAQ gets published, that he will begin a campaign to
have it removed, claiming one or all of the above reasons why it is illegal. In case
no one ever told him, (and many people have) his own words, posts, threats, and
actions are all publicly available to anyone who wants to research them, and once
posted to usenet are public domain, accessible through Google, various newsservers,
and newsgroup services, the newsgroups themselves, and, oh, wait... Ray himself. It
is not the intention of this page to do anything other than bring to a higher level
of public awareness what Ray himself has written.

Please note: The Old Author and the NEW Editorial Staff are NOT the same person or
persons...
Who is this Ray Gordon person?

Ray Gordon is a dangerous harasser, who hides under several screen names playing
every role possible to get someone to write to him. He is mentally sick and violent.
He hates women and jumps on everybody who do not agree with him. He wishes death to
people, laughs at people who have lost a child and harasses people in general in the
most disgusting, sick ways. He thinks that he is here to "expose child abuse" and
"corruption" in the world -but thinks he's allowed to insult people, preferably
underage females,speak of them lowly and degradingly and make up the most incredibly
ridiculous stories about them. Above all, he claims to have been Jesus in a past life
and been sent here by God.

Ray Gordon is a fictitious internet pseudonym used by Gordon Roy Parker. An excellent
description of  the persona of "Ray Gordon" and thus that of Gordon Roy Parker is the
description of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This information offers great
insight into the mental torment that he suffers, and which causes him to take his
vengeance out on others.

http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/personality_disorders/narcissism/faq_index.html
Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Schizoid PD

NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) is often diagnosed with other mental health
disorders (such as the Borderline, Histrionic, or Antisocial personality disorder).
This is called "co-morbidity". It is also often accompanied by substance abuse and
other reckless and impulsive behaviours and this is called "dual diagnosis". But
there is one curious match, one logic-defying co-appearance of mental health
disorders: narcissism and the Schizoid personality disorder

The basic dynamic of this particular brand of co-morbidity goes like this:

1. The Narcissist feels superior, unique, entitled and better than his fellow men. He
thus tends to despise them, to hold them in contempt and to regard them as lowly and
subservient beings.

2. The narcissist feels that his time is invaluable, his mission of cosmic
importance, his contributions to humanity priceless. He, therefore, demands total
obedience and catering to his ever- changing needs. Any demands on his time and
resources is deemed to be both humiliating and wasteful.

3. But the narcissist is DEPENDENT on input from other people for the performance of
certain ego functions (such as the regulation of his sense of self worth). Without
narcissistic supply (adulation, adoration, attention), the narcissist shrivels and
withers and is dysphoric (=depressed).

4. The narcissist resents this dependence (described in point 3). He is furious at
himself for his neediness and - in a typical narcissistic manoeuvre (called
"alloplastic defence") - he blames OTHERS for his anger. He displaces his rage and
its roots.

5. Many narcissists are paranoids. This means that they are afraid of people and of
what people might do to them. Think about it: wouldn't you be scared and paranoid if
your very life depended continually on the goodwill of others? The narcissist's very
life depends on others providing him with narcissistic supply. He becomes suicidal if
they stop doing so.

6. To counter this overwhelming feeling of helplessness (dependence on narcissistic
supply), the narcissist becomes a control freak. He sadistically manipulates others
to satisfy his needs. He derives pleasure from the utter subjugation of his human
environment.

7. Finally, the narcissist is a latent masochist. He seeks punishment, castigation
and ex-communication. This self-destruction is the only way to validate powerful
voices he internalized as a child ("you are a bad, rotten, hopeless child").

As you can easily see, the narcissistic landscape is fraught with contradictions. The
Narcissist depends on people - but hates and despises them. He wants to control them
unconditionally - but is also looking to punish himself savagely. He is terrified of
persecution ("persecutory delusions") - but seeks the company of his own
"persecutors" compulsively. The narcissist is the victim of incompatible inner
dynamics, ruled by numerous vicious circles, pushed and pulled simultaneously by
irresistible forces. A minority of narcissists choose the SCHIZOID SOLUTION. They
choose, in effect, to disengage, both emotionally and socially

By Dr. Sam Vaknin
http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/personality_disorders/narcissism/faq82.html

His different personalities are, for example, pro chess player, pro gymnastics coach,
pro handicapper, pro finance market analyzer, pro relationships adviser, pro
anything, pro everything. He really thinks that he is capable of doing everything he
says and it would be an understatement to say he is lying through his teeth. He is
not a gymnastics coach, not an expert in anything he claims to be and people have
proven that over and over. Let's face it, anyone with enough time to post close to
one hundred articles, every day can't possibly do anything else with their lives. If
you take his advice or write to him, he will first play nice but then he attacks you
in the worst possible way you can imagine. What makes him dangerous is that he writes
perfectly literate English, unlike most mentally disabled or dangerous people on the
internet. You can find a lot of examples about his writings here. Read them and learn
about this dangerous individual so that you can spot him when he makes an appearance,
and then you will know why you can safely ignore everything Ray writes on the
newsgroups or in chat rooms.

Some of Ray's self-proclaimed careers:
Pro gymnastics coach         Claims to train several gymnasts online
Pro chess player and/or chess coach         Only a bit shy of becoming World Champion. Also
claims to be Internationally ranked Note: the USCF has NO listing of him on their
website. According to information we have, Ray's old rating exists, but his
membership is not current.
Pro handicapper and oddsmaker         According to his web site
Pro finance market analyzer         According to his web site
Pro relationships adviser         Teaches men "how to get laid"
Pro hypnotist and hypnosis instructor         Harasses and bad mouths female hypnotists
Software Company CEO         Own company, of course
Writer         Writes a book about seduction and Dominique Moceanu
Best secretary in the USA         But got fired because he wasn't an "office whore"
Paralegal         Pennsylvania requires some sort of professional certification,
but Ray doesn't know that.
Activist against child abuse and sexual harassment         Claims that gymnastics coaches
are child abusers
Professional psychic         And still doesn't have a clue about the Editorial Staff of RayFAQ
Civil Rights Activist         Claims that hiring discrimination has prevented him from being
employed. Filed suit against UPenn. Hmmm...
Journalist         Not accredited by any news agency, though.
Software Company CEO & entrepreneur         Own company, of course
Successful business owner         Also known as broke, and filed bankruptcy in 1997.
Internet guru         He can't read headers on Usenet posts, but he's learning.
Sports historian         Hmm...
Body builder         And of course extremely good looking
Jesus Christ         Only in past life though.
Skilled Hypnotist         Claims to be able to "Gain TOTAL Sexual Control" over women.

Here are a few links to info about Ray, and what he does.
Philadelphia First Judicial District Court Docket Report
The Fairfax Apartments
WHOIS for cybersheet.com
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Narcissists, Violence, and Abuse
Snodgrass Publishing - Fictitious Name Owner
Snodgrass Publishing - Basic Entity Information
Snodgrass Publishing - Instrument History
Penn Word Processing - Fictitious Name Owner
Penn Word Processing - Basic Entity Information
Penn Word Processing - Instrument History
Ray's "seduction website"
Ray's Yahoo! Group

Editors' note: Since Ray has begun cancelling his posts from the Google archive, it
makes it more difficult to collect his original posts, but with a bit of diligent
research, one can compile a complete record of what he posted and when, by following
the convoluted threads.

More details about him can be found in Part III, under the section headed: "What have
other people written about Ray?"
Why does this page exist?

Ray has started a war on alt.sports.gymnastics and continues one on alt.romance,
alt.hypnosis, alt.gambling, alt.seduction.fast, and dozens of other newsgroups. He
has himself posted more than ten thousand messages in these groups. There are people
who work hard on the newsgroups to warn people about him and to correct all the
"facts" he writes. That has caused that almost all the messages on
alt.sports.gymnastics, alt.romance, alt.hypnosis, alt.gambling, and
alt.seduction.fast to be about Ray Gordon. The newsgroups should be useful and people
should be able to read them and post there but at the moment everything is a total
war zone and you really don't want to read that.

The war has been going on for years, and is only getting worse. There is no sign that
Ray will stop. People responding to his articles just makes the situation even worse
because Ray gets what he wants: attention. People who fight him post because they are
afraid that children could take his advice. One gymnast took his advice and got
injured. Gymnastics is already a dangerous sports even when you do it right. The
consequences of bad advice are serious injuries.

The OFFICIAL Ray Gordon FAQ was created to solve the deadlock The idea is to provide
the warning for new readers by collecting a page with a lot of examples about Ray's
behavior and his e-mail addresses. We don't need flame wars or comments on Ray's
writings any more as anyone can read The OFFICIAL Ray Gordon FAQ. If no one posts any
responses to Ray's writings, he won't get the attention any more and it's only a
matter of time before he gets tired. So let's let him write but let's also warn
people without adding to the amount of off-topic articles.

This might be all well intentioned, but as we've all seen, Ray doesn't care how many
people flame him, nor does he care what his public image is. It will likely take some
intervention somewhere, but until then, usenet will have to deal with it. To find out
what you can do about it, if you are harassed, visit the "What can I do about Ray" page.
Where else does he write?

     * He writes on alt.romance pretending to be an expert on relationships and
giving out advice on how to get laid. He hates women because he lost his work as a
secretary. I guess you got the picture of how good his advice really is...
     * He writes on alt.hypnosis claiming to be an expert. He harasses and bad mouths
female hypnotists calling them evil.
     * He jumps on women in alt.support.domestic-violence calling them whores,
garbage etc.
     * He also writes on alt.gambling claiming to be an expert handicapper and oddsmaker
     * He writes on alt.seduction.fast claiming to be an "expert" at relationships,
seduction advice, meeting and picking up women, but has herpes, and his books are now
once again for sale, although Ray won't provide accurate sales figures. Ray claims
that PayPal's figures are artificially low. Ray has been challenged dozens of times
to produce his sales figures, but he will never do it. He's a lying coward.
     * He also has an own web site where he writes about relationships, gambling and
stock markets claiming to be an expert in everything.
     * Ray is now claiming to be publishing his own website, with names, addresses,
and other personal information about the people he claims are harming his businesses,
and threatening his safety. We would enjoy seeing this webpage, and would gladly link
to it.

How do you know that the writer is Ray?

Of course from his screen names. But he keeps inventing new ones and you know that
someone smells like Ray when this someone

     * is defending him and hates all the other people who disagree with him
     * claims to be an expert in anything you mention
     * badmouths female gymnasts and females in general
     * attacks people in almost every article
     * complains loud that Ray is the one who is getting harassed

Ray even makes up new e-mail addresses and changes his writing style a bit to defend
himself. Two documented examples can be read on the Ray in disguise-page.

So be careful in the newsgroups and check this page from time to time to get the
updates and new screen names.
What screen names and e-mail addresses does Ray use?

Ray writes mostly using e-mail addresses from Hotmail, DejaNews and Juno. Some recent
email addresses were variations of The Seduction Library coming from AOL accounts,
Prior to that he was posting from variations of ray__...@juno.com or
outfo...@juno.com but it is likely that since he spammed so many newsgroups using
Juno headers, that he was finally banned from their system somehow. The same thing
happened to his AOL accounts, at least to the point that he no longer can post from
AOL to usenet. At the moment his email addresses are: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS"
r...@cybersheet.com and cave...@nni.com. The posting host he is currently using is
Altopia.net, or alt.net. Recently, Ray has been posting again from America Online.
Given the amount of persons on various newsgroups, one has to wonder if AOL ever
intends to enforce its TOS User policy. It has been several months now that Ray is
posting from "winatbetting", "iteachhypnosis", "averypsychicmale" and
"amoderncaveman" from AOL.

This is a long list of screen names Ray is using or has used in the past. Most of
these are invalid at the moment because he gets his accounts cancelled FAST. However,
I try to keep as complete a list as possible for readers to get the big picture.

Here's also a note I got in e-mail:

     * "BTW, maybe you could mention to your readers to point out to AOLosers the
idiocy of giving him ANOTHER account right after canceling one!! Also, while a
recognized "name" might be on, he will ALSO probably be lurking under a new, temp
name.  He has multiple phone lines, and can be online with AT LEAST two, and probably
at least three names at once."

So be careful when you are in AOL chat rooms. ´
An abbreviated list of Ray's e-mail addresses at Juno
NOTE: This list is very incomplete, because Ray would alter the number of "_"
characters between each segment of a screen name, to counter a filter at Juno. They
finally wised up, and blocked him completely.

To the best of our knowledge, all of these addresses have been cancelled by the provider.

frederic...@juno.com
freddyg...@juno.com
lamontg...@juno.com
notra...@juno.com
raygs...@juno.com
raygor...@juno.com
ray_g...@juno.com
ray__...@juno.com
r_a_y_...@juno.com
r_a_y_g...@juno.com
sanford...@juno.com
snodg...@juno.com
Women Prefer Me @ juno.com
Women______Prefer_____________ Me__@ juno.com
Women_______Prefer_____ Me_________@ juno.com
Women___ Prefer______________Me____@ juno.com
YouWillGetLaid @ juno.com
You______Will____Get________Laid_@ juno.com
You______Will_____ Get__Laid_____@ juno.com
You__ Will______Get_______Laid___@ juno.com
OutfoxingTheFoxes @ juno.com
Outfoxing______The_____________ Foxes__@ juno.com
Outfoxing__________The____ Foxes_______@ juno.com
Outfoxing___The_______________Foxes____@ juno.com
WomenPurrFor Me @ juno.com
Women______Purr____For_______ Me__@ juno.com
Women_____   __Purr__For___ Me_____@ juno.com
Women__ Purr_______For_______Me___@ juno.com
YoullGetLaid @ juno.com
Youll______Get______________ Laid__@ juno.com
Youll________Get_____ Laid_________@ juno.com
Youll___ Get_______________Laid____@ juno.com

Ray's e-mail addresses at Hotmail

Ask...@hotmail.com (Cancelled in March 1998. Over 500 articles in alt.romance and
alt.sports.gymnastics)
nique...@hotmail.com
RayGor...@hotmail.com
RayGord...@hotmail.com
ray...@hotmail.com (Cancelled in April 1998. Over 700 articles in alt.romance and
alt.sports.gymnastics)
Seduc...@hotmail.com
seren...@hotmail.com (This one is Ray in disguise and he used it to defend ask ray
in alt.romance.)
superr...@hotmail.com
tangle...@hotmail.com
Ray's screen names at AOL  The list keeps increasing in length.

AbusesDM
ARoseForDM
AT6M
AModernCaveman
AVeryPsychicMale
BelaSucks
BetForALiving
CassyL3694
ChessGym (Profile below)
ChessRay (Profile below)
Chokeanu
Coacheanu
CoachChess
CUPID1pt0 (About 100 articles in alt.romance and 20 in soc.singles from 1997. He was
advertizing a Romantic Compatibility Software to tell people who to date.)
CYouIn2001
DeLoneWolf (About 20 articles in alt.hypnosis from 1996-1997)
DMGetsBusy
DMinsanity (About 20 articles in alt.sports.gymnastics from 1997)
DMIsAbused
DMisAHussy (Used to post only one slander article where he begs for Dominique Moceanu
to sue him)
DMIsAWaste
DMisBeauty
DMIsMyLove
DMSUX
DMWinsGold
DomHypno (About 20 articles in alt.hypnosis from 1997)
DomiMyLove
DomiReject
DomIsDBomb
DomM4DomM
DomMarryMe
DomPsychic (Contains the really interesting Ray'sFinal Post to alt.hypnosis which of
course was not his final post there)
DomQuitNow
DomsNo1Fan
DomWorship
DumbDumDom
DumDumDom
DumpedByDM
EleeteBoo (GymBooPeep says: EleeteBoo was a name Ray signed on as, when posting as me
to get into a Private AOL chat with my friends (whom he thinks have connections to
The Mag 7)
emeralde...@aol.com (EmeraldEyesHypno)
FanGynast
FreeDMNow
GymGenius
GymnAbuse
HypnoDance
HypnoDomm
HypnoFag
HypnoTeach (About 30 articles in alt.hypnosis from 1997)
HypnoWitch
ICyberedDM
ICyberedJD
ICyberedSM
ICyberedVA
IDislikeDM
IKnowURDom
ILoooveDom
ILuvUNique
ITeachHypnosis
ITrainFHyp (Profile below)
IWantDM
JensNo1Fan (2 articles in alt.sports.gymnast.moceanu from 1997)
KneesRShot
LBOUD56714 (Suspected)
LearnHypno
Learn2BaPlayer
LindaC19F
LiveWell88
LoverOfDom
LoveThatDM
LoveUDom
LovingDomM
Lust4Jamie
MarryMeDom
MediaWhizz (7 articles in alt.hypnosis from 1997)
MenSleepForMe (AOL Profile as "Hellen" Check out Ray in disguise)
MoneyWhizz (Profile below)
MyLove4Dom
NadiaNique
NextBela
NiqueLoses (Check out Ray in disguise)
NiqueNadia
NoLust4JC
NoLust4Nes
nose...@aol.com (NoSexxDom) (Profile below. Used often. About 330 articles in
alt.romance, 70 in
---------------- alt.hypnosis, 50 in soc.singles from 1997)
NotD8ingDM
NotD8tingDM
NotDMCoach
NowFlyAway
OwnedByRay (7 articles in alt.hypnosis from 1996)
Powerbase1
ProPredict
PsychDom (New one after Pxychic was canceled)
PsychicDom (About 30 articles in alt.hypnosis from 1997)
PsychSmart
Pxychic (Cancelled in February 1998. Profile below. This was used a lot and mainly in
alt.romance. Also in a.s.gymnastics, alt.hypnosis, soc.singles and rec.gambling.sports)
Pxykick (New one after Pxychic was canceled)
QuitNowDom
Raytemp000 (2 articles in alt.romance from 1997)
Raytemp963 (12 articles in alt.romance from 1997)
ReadingsNOTFree
RGSoft1 (About 20 articles in alt.hypnosis from 1996)
RUAGymnast
Rules4Men
SeeFutures (1 article in alt.romance from 1997)
SingIeMDom
SingleMDom
Snodgra...@aol.com
SmartPsych
TheRevolt (About 100 articles in rec.gambling.sports from 1997)
TheRevolt2 (1 article in rec.gambling.sports from 1997)
TheWeakestLinkUR
Teiubesc
Telubesc
The12thRse (2 articles in rec.gambling.sports and soc.singles from1997)
UnChainDM
URDomIKnow
WinAtB...@aol.com - Thanks to Yoder, from yoderanium.com
WhizardRay (About 220 articles in alt.hypnosis from 1996)
WhizzMedia (About 40 articles in alt.hypnosis from 1997)
WizFlyAway
WorshipDom
XILoveDom
Ray's E-mail addresses at Mindspring

SotwareG@Mindspring.com (Cancelled in February 1998. Main account with his name.
Posted under names Penny Parker & Walter Parker too. Over one thousand articles in
a.s.gymnastics and several newsgroups about gambling and romance)

Unite...@mindspring.com (Used by Walter Parker to advertise Ray's "incredible
knowledge" in betting)
Ray's e-mail addresses on other ISPs

DJNBl...@my-dejanews.com
DJNSu...@my-dejanews.com
penn...@internetmci.com
ra...@VALUEWEB.NET
r...@cybersheet.com
cave...@nni.com

Ray's brother Walter Parker and his mom Penny Parker also use his
"sotw...@mindspring.com" E-mail address.

Walter also uses:

On AOL

Walthorse1
MusixMax25
PennWorld

And

Unite...@mindspring.com
Wally...@hotmail.com.

If you find any new ones, please email them to ray...@email.com
What AOL member profiles does he have?

Here are AOL profiles we received via e-mail. If you see new profiles,
please email them to ray...@email.com

Profile changes sometimes indicate an upcoming meltdown; his "A Modern Caveman"
profile as of 11:00 pm EST 1/12/03 is:

Name: Ray Gordon.  Quote of the day: "I am far too enamored of women in general to
make the mistake of loving one in particular."
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Sex: Male
Marital Status: World's greatest lover
Hobbies & Interests: Teaching men how to use their brains to get women into bed,
teaching women how to avoid the men I teach; exploring erotic hypnosis with (VERY)
beautiful women, and selling recordings of my best student (see AOL website).
Proving God/Jesus to be a phony.
Favorite Gadgets: Men: beautiful women are easy to figure out.  Check out my AOL
homepage for THREE FREE BOOKS to solve your problems.
Occupation: Publisher, erotic hypnosis producer (MP3), seducer.  Psychic (NO
FREEBIES).  Hunger-striking civil-rights activist.
Personal Quote: No more free love life readings for women: women who have problems in
love are either too ugly to attract the perfect guy or too stupid to recognize him.
A man must learn to be that jerk that women love.
Hometown HomePage: http://hometown.aol.com/amoderncaveman/

Here is a profile that shows some serious issues.

ReadingsNOTFree
Name: You get what you pay for.
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Sex: Male
Marital Status: 18 Year-Old Contortionist
Hobbies & Interests: did you know...100 percent of pretty women who know hypnosis can
seduce a wealthy man!
Favorite Gadgets: Venture capitalists are IDIOTS.  They sunk billions into the dotcom
graveyard and YOU paid for it in the stock market.
Occupation: Professional psychic to WEALTHY individuals (they aren't cheap!).  The
rest of you bums will just have to do without me.
Personal Quote: Don't IM me unless you are 1) a paying client; 2) a sexy female who
wants to learn h ypnosis; or 3) a sexy female venture-capitalist who wants to learn.....

Lately, he's only been on as MenSleepForMe; sometimes has his AIM "AModernCaveman"
name on, but not the actual AOL name.

As of 10/09/2002:

Name: Ray Gordon: teacher of hypnosis to "Hellen" (Hypnotist20F).
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Sex: Male Marital
Status: World's greatest lover
Hobbies & Interests: Teaching men how to use their brains to get women into bed,
teaching women how to avoid the men I teach; exploring erotic hypnosis with (VERY)
beautiful women, and selling recordings of my best student (see AOL website). Proving
God/Jesus to be a phony.
Favorite Gadgets: Men: beautiful women are easy to figure out. Check out my AOL
homepage for THREE FREE BOOKS to solve your problems.
Occupation: Publisher, erotic hypnosis producer (MP3), seducer. Psychic (NO
FREEBIES). Hunger-striking civil-rights activist.
Personal Quote: Men are jerks because jerks get sex. It's easier for a man to become
a jerk and get sex that way than it is for him to convince a woman to want him when
he's nice. The complaining nice guy is a wimp; the jerk who uses women is a stud.
Hometown HomePage: http://hometown.aol.com/amoderncaveman/

As of early morning Tuesday (11/19/02):

"Men Sleep For Me"

Name: Hellen or Ray Gordon, and if you're not a paying customer, Hellen usually won't
talk to you (she only makes money on sales)
Location: USA
Sex: Female
Marital Status: Single Hypnodomme
Hobbies & Interests: Hypnotizing and feminizing men (and sometimes women) by
**recording only**.  Check out my AOL homepage for info about my erotic hypnosis
recordings.  D/s bdsm domme erotic hypnosis and all that.
Favorite Gadgets: Pendants, candles, spirals, my eyes....hypnopics on my site.
Occupation: Erotic hypnotist, recordings only.  Legal secretary, paralegal,
litigation support, law office consulting. Psychic Readings--Ray
Personal Quote: As the numbers get lower, your mind gets slower and you slip
peacefully and quickly into a deep, sound, obedient sleep!
Hometown HomePage: http://hometown.aol.com/mensleepforme/

"A Modern Caveman":

Name: Ray Gordon
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Sex: Male
Marital Status: World's greatest lover
Hobbies & Interests: Teaching men how to use their brains to get women into bed,
teaching women how to avoid the men I teach; exploring erotic hypnosis with (VERY)
beautiful women, and selling recordings of my best student (see AOL website).
Proving God/Jesus to be a phony.
Favorite Gadgets: Men: beautiful women are easy to figure out.  Check out my AOL
homepage for THREE FREE BOOKS to solve your problems.
Occupation: Author, internet publisher, erotic hypnosis producer, seducer of
beautiful women who inspire me.  Psychic (NO FREEBIES).
Personal Quote: Looking for a phone actress who is willing to learn erotic hypnosis
(good pay if you're good enough after you are trained.  Inquire within).  Also
seeking (VERY) beautiful women to hypnotize.  Will honestly rate your pic 1-10; I
only date 9s and above.
Hometown HomePage: http://hometown.aol.com/amoderncaveman/

Profile for "Men Sleep For Me" as of 11/15/02:

Name: Hellen or Ray Gordon, who screens pets for me, for my safety.  Treat him as you
would me.  Either one of us could be on.
Location: USA
Sex: Female
Marital Status: Single Hypnodomme
Hobbies & Interests: Hypnotizing and feminizing men (and sometimes women) by
**recording only**.  Check out my AOL homepage for info about my erotic hypnosis
recordings.  D/s bdsm domme erotic hypnosis and all that.
Favorite Gadgets: Pendants, candles, spirals, my eyes....hypnopics on my site.
Occupation: Erotic hypnotist, recordings only.  Legal secretary, paralegal,
litigation support, law office consulting. Psychic Readings--Ray
Personal Quote: As the numbers get lower, your mind gets slower and you slip
peacefully and quickly into a deep, sound, obedient sleep!
Hometown HomePage: http://hometown.aol.com/mensleepforme/

AOL profile for "A Modern Caveman" (October 26, 2002)

Name: Ray Gordon
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Sex: Male
Marital Status: World's greatest lover
Hobbies & Interests: Teaching men how to get beautiful women, erotic hypnosis on
beautiful women (if you're seriously into this, be female, gorgeous, IN MY AREA, and
willing to talk offline, must send pic and phone number before I talk to you).  NO
ONLINE CHAT.
Favorite Gadgets: Men: beautiful women are easy to figure out.  Check out my AOL
homepage for THREE FREE BOOKS to solve your problems.
Occupation: Author, internet publisher, erotic hypnosis producer, seducer of
beautiful women who inspire me.
Personal Quote: A beautiful woman says she wants a nice guy, yet winds up with a
lying player.  Do you think this is an accident?  She can attract any man she wants,
so either she's lying about what she wants, or she's too stupid to find it. Be the
"jerk" women love!
Hometown HomePage: http://hometown.aol.com/amoderncaveman/

AOL profile for "A Modern Caveman" (October 5, 2002)

Member Name: 21st Century Caveman: president of the World Hypnodomme Foundation (WHF)
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Sex: Male
Marital Status: I'm your favorite mistake.
Hobbies: Rocking the world of the world's hottest women (but not online).  Lamer of
the year award: women who come on strong online and then suddenly realize it's AOL
when you ask for their #; don't bother, ladies.
Computers: Re: voice actresses, singers and voiceover experience preferred.
Occupation: Erotic hypnosis producer.  Seeking a woman with a VERY SEXY VOICE to make
hypnosis recordings.  No hypnosis experience required.
Personal Quote: Note to nice guys who want to figure out women or women who want to
figure out themselves: click the link in my AOL profile for a full explanation of why
women choose jerks over decent men.  Three FREE books on the art of seducing women.
Hometown HomePage: http://hometown.aol.com/amoderncaveman/

  AOL profile for "A Modern Caveman" (October 2, 2002)

Member Name: 21st Century Caveman: president of the World Hypnodomme Foundation (WHF)
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Sex: Male
Marital Status: I'm your favorite mistake.
Hobbies: I like really beautiful women who like me back.  Not into long-term
relationships or commitment.  I don't spend money on women and prefer short-term
relationships.
Computers: Re: voice actresses, singers and voiceover experience preferred.
Occupation: Erotic hypnosis producer.  Seeking a woman with a VERY SEXY VOICE to make
hypnosis recordings.  No hypnosis experience required.
Personal Quote: Never again is what you swore the time before.
Hometown HomePage: http://hometown.aol.com/amoderncaveman/

AOL profile for A Modern Caveman (Undated)

Member Name: 21st Century Caveman: president of the World Hypnodomme Foundation (WHF)
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Sex: Male
Marital Status: Only losers look for love online
Hobbies: I used to feel sorry for women who wound up with the wrong men, but then I
realized that women don't want to find good men.  Even when you tell them how the
liars get them, the women STILL respond to the methods.  That means women LIKE liars.
Computers: If nice guys knew what women really thought of them, they wouldn't stay
nice.  (see my AOL website)
Occupation: Psychic (NO FREE READINGS), paralegal, publisher, and I teach women the
fine artistic fusion of bellydance and hypnosis.
Personal Quote: Ladies: you have to make a choice between me and the jerks and the
players.  If you talk to me, you're not allowed to talk to them, and if you talk to
them, I won't bother talking to you.  You're allowed to be rude to me exactly once.
Hometown HomePage: http://hometown.aol.com/amoderncaveman/

Note: This is one we received from a kind soul on AOL. We choose not to identify this
person, because we believe that Ray will harass them over this. We've seen it before,
and we know it will happen again. We protect our sources.

Member Name: 21st Century Caveman
Location: East Coast
Sex: Male
Marital Status: I have a female pet; she obeys
Hobbies: I teach men how to seduce beautiful women, and do free psychic readings
online for hotties (inquire within), and you will NOT be hit on.
Computers: Golddiggers: learn how to seduce men through MlND CONTROL: IM me for
details if you're hot and over 18.
Occupation: Psychic. Women: you can contact me for a FREE READING if you're hot and
can prove it.  Men: IM me to learn to seduce women FREE.
Personal Quote: Whoever said not to cry over spilt milk didn't have wall-to-wall
carpeting.
Hometown HomePage: http://hometown.aol.com/amoderncaveman/

Here's another version of this one, submitted by the same kind soul:

Member Name: 21st Century Caveman
Location: East Coast
Sex: Male
Marital Status: Be a bellydancer or learn
Hobbies: Choroegraphing bellydancers, middle eastern dancers, to perform a very
sensual form of mind control.  Also h-ypnotism.
Computers: Note to women: if you aren't gorgeous, between the ages of 18-24, AND
willing to let me mold you, DO NOT TALK TO ME.  Clear?
Occupation: Psychic.  LOW Rates.  Check my AOL website for details.  Also
bellydane/mind-control dance instructor.  NO FREE READINGS
Personal Quote: H-ypnotists and bellydancers NEVER complain about their love lives.
They make other women complain.
Hometown HomePage: http://hometown.aol.com/amoderncaveman/

We would like to point out the myriad misspellings and other grammar errors. Some
secretarial skills this took to write...

Here are some older profiles showing his obsession with gymnastics, hypnosis, and
finance.

Member Name: Ray Gordon: odds are you've heard some lies about me if you are a
gymnast. These lies are told by your coaches, because they
Location: fear me. The coaches in USAG do not know how to do their jobs, and when I
point this out to their girls, they attack me. Your career goes down the drain as a
result.
Sex: Male
Marital Status: Single Coach
Hobbies: Are you a 2004 hopeful who wants to WIN? Not gonna happen in this country
with the coaches we have. Sure, you'll win some junior meets, and they'll tell you
how great you are going to be, but the Slavs will still eat you alive.
Computers: Do you want to WIN? I need the TEN best gymnasts for 2004 to stand up
against their coaches and demand better coaching.
Occupation: Do you have the COURAGE to stop idiot, abusive coaches? As a TEAM, this
can be done. Just say "Let Ray coach me or I QUIT!"
Personal Quote: If your coach or any other coach tells you not to listen to me, MAKE
them PROMISE you an olympic medal. Think they can deliver? Look at the 2000 team for
your answer. We SUCK.

Member Name: Pxykick (can you figure out what that means?)
Location: AOL
Birthdate: Capricorn 31
Sex: Male
Marital Status: Not Married or Engaged
Hobbies: Hypnosis, astrology, computers, bodybuilding, inline skating,chess,
politics, activism, making a difference.  Also teaching the art of seduction to men
and the art of hypnosis to women.
Computers: Me: 6'2", blond hair, blue eyes, 180#, bodybuilder, very good looking and
intelligent.
Occupation: http://www.cybersheet.com, an evolving web site. I also charge $60 an
hour for my time for ANYTHING.  That means YOU.
Personal Quote: Do not bother me for ANY reason unless you are willing to PAY me up
front.  If I contact you I will not solicit you; if not I do not wish to speak with
you.  I have better things to do with my time than waste it.

Previous profile of Pxykick:
Member Name: Pxykick (can't you read the screen name?)
Location: AOL
Birthdate: Capricorn 31
Sex: Male
Marital Status: Not Married or Engaged
Hobbies: Hypnosis, astrology, computers, bodybuilding, inline skating,chess,
politics, activism, making a difference.  Also teaching the art of seduction to men
and the art of hypnosis to women.
Computers: Me: 6'2", blond hair, blue eyes, 180#, bodybuilder, very good looking and
intelligent.
Occupation: Psychic, Hypnotist, "Power Hypnosis" website for hypnotists who sell
power hypnosis tapes.  Also seeking a REALLY good laywer.
Personal Quote: NOTE:  I am sorry, but due to a slander campaign against me, I cannot
accept any new people into my life. If I do not already know and trust you, I cannot
speak with you. Visit this website: (http://members.tripod.com/~rayfaq/index.html)
for more info

Previous profile of Pxykick:
Member Name: Pxykick (can't you read the screen name?)
Location: AOL
Birthdate: Capricorn 31
Sex: Male
Marital Status: Not Married or Engaged
Hobbies: Hypnosis, astrology, computers, bodybuilding, inline skating,chess,
politics, activism, making a difference.  Also teaching the art of seduction to men
and the art of hypnosis to women.
Computers: Me: 6'2", blond hair, blue eyes, 180#, bodybuilder, very good looking and
intelligent.
Occupation: Psychic, Hypnotist, building "Power Hypnosis" website for hypnotists who
sell power hypnosis tapes. Inquire within.
Personal Quote: I charge $50 an hour for psychic readings.  Most other psychics
charge more and deliver less.  I would never solicit you for money, so please don't
solicit me for free work.  It's highly offensive and akin to taking food out of my mouth.

Previous profile of Pxykick:
Member Name: Pxykick (can't you read the screen name?)
Location: AOL
Birthdate: Capricorn 31
Sex: Male
Marital Status: Not Engaged or Married
Hobbies: Hypnosis, astrology, computers, bodybuilding, inline skating,ch...

Disclaimer:
The following is reproduced under "Fair Use"
Do NOT distribute for commercial gain.

Part II
Information about "Ray Gordon", the fictitious internet pseudonym used by Gordon Roy
Parker.

This site contains information about Ray Gordon, a dangerous harasser who abuses

usenet newsgroups. Some recent email addresses were variations of The Seduction
Library coming from AOL accounts, Prior to that he was posting from variations of
ray__...@juno.com or outfo...@juno.com but it is likely that since he spammed so
many newsgroups using Juno headers, that he was finally banned from their system
somehow. Ray also seems to have been TOSsed from AOL as he no longer can post to

usenet from AOL. At the moment his email addresse are: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS"

r...@cybersheet.com and cave...@nni.com. The posting host he is currently using is
Altopia.net, or alt.net. In any case, it is well known that he uses several screen
names at the same time. If you are new to the alt.sports.gymnastics, alt.romance,
soc.singles, soc.men, soc.women, rec.sports.gambling or alt.seduction.fast

newsgroups, please read through these documents.
Part II

Examples of harassing and slander from Ray
Examples of Ray's posts to various newsgroups (click on group name below)

alt.hypnosis
alt.romance
alt.seduction.fast
alt.sports.gymnastics
rec.sports.gambling
Multiple Cross-posts

Comments from Ray regarding the Terrorist attacks on the WTC
Editor's Note: These have been moved to their own page
Examples of specific threats from Ray
Examples of harassing and slander from Ray

Ray wrote this when someone wrote an article about gymnast Hilary Grivich,who died in
a car crash:

     * May she rot in hell like the rest of them. I mean, she would have hated me
right? ALL Elite gymnasts hate me...so I hate Hilary, and to her parents, I LAUGH. I
may be a loser with no job(actually, I own a business and work TWO jobs, but don't
let the facts get in the way of your attack), but at least I'm ALIVE.

       Hilary is not alive. By the standards of accomplishment, I'm way ahead of her.

And when the target of Ray's "Evil Female Hypnotist"-alert ignored Ray'sravings:

     * Subject: Re: Golddigging EFH Alert (Ja...@aol.com)
       From: ask...@hotmail.com
       Date: 1998/03/19
       Message-ID: <6ercb0$c4q$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
       Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis

       In article <199803190406...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
         ja...@aol.com (Jadea) wrote:
       >
       > >To think
       >
       > >is foolish.
       >
       > >I see no reason
       >
       > >and
       >
       > > I should have no difficulty
       >
       > >under the supervision of a QUALIFIED
       >
       > >alien
       >
       > > to remain
       >
       > >stupid.
       >
       >

       Those were the vows from your first wedding ceremony, right HypnoWHORE?

       I see from your invitation to this NG to hangout that your ability to pick
those you allow into your life hasn't improved a bit.

       Guys, I can teach you how to seduce this woman. Anyone who wants the key feel
free to e-mail me.  It would be my PLEASURE to help you learn how her mind REALLY ticks.

These are some from his countless articles bashing gymnast Dominique Moceanu:

     * Subject: Dominique Moceanu Is A Criminal #1 of Infinity
       Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 00:29:46 -0600
       From: RayGor...@hotmail.com
       Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion
       Message-ID: <6im84a$f7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
       NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.205.203.157
       Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics

       Until the bashing of me stops, I will continue to post the reason I am annoyed
with that creature.

       She is a criminal.  She has broken the law. I have been told this directly by
those who broke the law for her.

       The more people post, the more I will respondthis way.  In fact, every time
someone posts against me, I will simply respond with the reason for their post, which
is this:

       Dominique Moceanu Is A Criminal.

Ray has posted several articles like the previous one. Here's what he wrote when
someone wanted to talk sense into him:

     * Subject: Dominique Moceanu Is A Criminal #7 of INFINITY
       From: RayGor...@hotmail.com
       Date: 1998/05/05
       Message-ID: <6imu0h$r1o$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
       Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics

         RayGor...@hotmail.com wrote:
       >
       > These posts will keep coming until she comes clean about hacking me offline
       > and having people harass me on her behalf.
       >
       > Make no mistake: Dominique Moceanu is a criminal.
       >
       > -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
       > http://www.dejanews.com/   Now offering spam-free web-basednewsreading
       >

       GEEZ! This child you keep ranting on about, is in high school, and then trains
20+ hours a week. When do you think she has the time to plot and set up all of these
sinister little activities. Take your meds, Ray. Dominique Moceanu does not know you,
does not care about you and wouldn't waste her breath uttering your name. GET A CLUE
AND A LIFE!

       <------I have a clue and a life, and please don't quit your day job. Dominique
and the rest of the Mag 7 were in the Gymnastics Chat Room on AOL almost every night
during the John Hancock Tour in 1996.  It was in that chat room that they formed an
alliance with a group of computer hackers who carried out their wishes to
harass,threaten, insult, discredit and TOS anyone who dared criticize them. In return
for these favors, the hackers were given access to the gymnasts.

       Make no mistake: Dominique Moceanu is a CRIMINAL.

Here he begs Dominique Moceanu to sue him:

     * Subject: Dominique is NOT a Virgin
       From: dmisa...@aol.com (DMIsAHussy)
       Date: 1997/11/15
       Message-ID: <19971115091...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
       Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics

       Not by a longshot.

       (One of) her boyfriend(s) is a track star named Dominqiue Kirsch, who likes to
joke that DM = Does Me. He seduced her over the last year and has hooked up with her
many times. I also heard rumblings that she was quite the busy one in Boston......I
know she's not allowed to have a boyfriend, but I guess girls will be girls.
Apparently, not only is she not the prude everyone thinks, but she's quite experienced.

       Now this sounds like a slanderous article. Please, let her sue me. I DARE her
to sue me and clear this one. In fact, if she DOESN'T sue me for this I'd say it's
tacit approval of what I am writing here, don't you think? Come on, Dominique, I hear
you calling me a liar all the time, do it publicly or keep your mouth SHUT. Uh,
that's when you aren't busy doing other things with it!

       The boyfriend she dates, Kirsch, is not a verynice guy. He's a computer hacker
who has access to AOL's internal billing records and can terminate the accounts of
anyone he doesn't like. He also deals drugs. This is what the REAL Dominique does.
Dmitri, can't you raise your little girl properly? She's a little slut and a whore
from what I hear, and I hear it from all over.

       Did you guys see her costume the other night? She looked like some girls I
know who have four kids by the time they are 20! Then again, what do you expect from
people who choose to sell their bodies for hacking favors to drug dealers. Man, this
would be libel if it weren't true and met the other standards, wouldn't it? Don't
hold your breath for a lawsuit, though.

       You want to call me a liar? Go ahead. I know I'm not. I gave out FIVE of her
screen names, and the sixth was given out shortly after on AOL. She'll get new SN's
and I will get them again and again. Why am I posting this? Three reasons:

       1. Dominique had this scumbag of a boyfriend ofhers hack me offline, costing
me a year in business and about $50,000;

       2. Dominique and her friends told many lies about me and harmed my
professional reputation; I had the opportunity to coach close to a dozen
olympic-bound gymnasts and lost that because of her lies and those of her friends and
fans.

       3. I'm sick of being called a liar by people who don't have a clue about the
truth.

       The ONLY person who can call me a liar here is Dominique herself, in a libel
suit, and I'd be happy to defend it. You can believe what ever you want; I'm through
showing even an ounce of respect for that little ARROGANT SLUT.

       You said you wanted the truth about Dominique? You just got it. Have fun. Hope
you wanted what you got the way you gotwhat you wanted.

another one:

     * Subject: Dominique is a Spoiled, Selfish, Phony,Overrated, Washed-Up Gymnast
       From: sotw...@mindspring.com (Ray Gordon)
       Date: 1997/12/23
       Message-ID: <34a03477....@news.mindspring.com>
       Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics

       That she is. She will NOT be going to Sydney.

       She also lacks morals, ethics, or character, and is a liar.

And another one:

     * Subject: Dominique is WASHED-UP
       From: sotw...@mindspring.com (Ray Gordon)
       Date: 1997/12/23
       Message-ID: <34a0355c....@news.mindspring.com>
       Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics

       I just couldn't resist.

       She weakens her gymnastics so badly that it makes her performances such an
inviting target for criticism. She is raping the sport she supposedly loves for every
dollar she can milk from it and is no longer a true competitor or a champion, or any
kind of meaningful threat to win a meaningful international meet.

       In other words, she is DONE.

       DM = Done Medaling

And one more:

     * Subject: Re: GO AWAY RAY
       From: sotw...@mindspring.com (Ray Gordon)
       Date: 1998/01/02
       Message-ID: <34acf5c1...@news.mindspring.com>
       Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics

       tumb...@aol.com (Tumble 381) wrote:

       >* That is a free speech issue, not a gymnastics issue. *
       >
       >Maybe so, but THIS, my friend, is a GYMNASTICS newsgroup.

       Yes, it is. But I have the right to say what ever I want out here, and
       I will.

       Like this: Dominique Moceanu is a lying slut.

This one shows how obsessed he is:

     * Subject: Re: to pxychic: about beautiful women
       From: pxy...@aol.com (Pxychic)
       Date: 1998/02/02
       Message-ID: <19980202234...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
       Newsgroups: alt.romance

       Some Guy Writes:

       Pxychic if you are such the man why don't you post pictures of women you
consider to be hot. I mean we are all dying to know what you consider to be beautiful
or not.

       <-----Check out the 1996 Olympic Games from Atlanta. Then check out a diver
named Amy Buehl. She is my definition of physical perfection, and would now be 19 or
20 years old. I can already tell you that I would like to sleep with her. This is how
most men make up their minds about women, by the way. My primal side, however, has
been overruled by my practical side, because there is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE I will
ever get to have sex with Ms. Buehl. Actually, the odds are slightly above
infinitesmal. But yes she is the most beautiful woman on earth, barnone. Also the
sexiest. The only thing that is lacking is that she does not return my feelings for
her, but of course she does not know me.

       And that is the horrible thing about beautiful women: their beauty is a source
of pleasure only to the man they happen to be having sex with; to every other man,
they are a source of heart break.You think Amy cares about what I think of her? Ha!
She doesn't! She's off dating some European kickboxer named Serge or some jock or guy
with a lot of money or jock with a lot of money. The only way I can ever get someone
like her is to kick my CUPID rating over 90, which would require that I be a
multimillionaire, part-time bodybuilder, and great dresser. I might even have to be
NICE. But being nice by itself wouldn't do crap so it's not worth investing my time
in pursuit that won't work.

       Guys, if there is an Amy Buehl on a lesser scale in your life, the best thing
to do is ignore her completely while posturing yourself as attractively as possible
to her. I have done this with Amyand completely ignored her (until now). So far the
strategy is workingjust fine: I haven't made a fool out of myself to her, and she
hasn't complained about me bothering her or not being able to take a hint. I bet
there are about 500 other guys that Amy wishes knew what I knew and didn't bother her
for dates.

       To answer your question, Amy Buehl is the Queen of the Hot Babes. Her
physicality, and what she is capable of doing with it, is sacred. If you don't
believe me, watch the tapes yourself. It was pure lust at first sight.

       FREE horoscopes and a COOL romantic advice columnon our website!

       http://www.cybersheet.com

And one from the romance-group:

     * Subject: Seduction Made Easy
       From: pxy...@aol.com (Pxykick)
       Date: 1998/02/26
       Message-ID: <19980226134...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
       Newsgroups: alt.romance

       To all the guys (except the few who get laid):

       Seduction is EASY.....not that I'd tell you how easy. Just keep thinking it's
difficult, keep putting more and more energy into it and getting less and less back,
oh, and make sure you keep asking women for advice on how to get what you want. Women
are very good at telling a man what is good for him without paying any mind to their
own agenda.

       Have fun masturbating, losers.

And some ravings collected from his articles:

     * <------No. Gymansts are selfish, spoiled, stuck-up, socially unconscious
bitches who are absolutely worthless to humanity. And in America, they SUCK. They
SUCK! Karpenko kicks BUTT. She'sa REAL gymnast. It's gonna be ugly at Sydney, that's
for sure. DM="Done" Medaling.

       Vanessa SUCKS, and while it's admirable of youto defend her, her performance
doesn't lie. She's sloppy, undisciplined, ugly, stupid, lousy, poorly coached, and
not a serious medal contender at Sydney. In other words, she's a typical American
gymnasts.

       Your words do absolutely nothing to change that.Sorry. Nessa BLOWS.

Here Ray wishes death at gymnasts and laughs at people dying. Also note that he tries
to hide his postings from being archived at dejanews withthe "x-no-archive: yes"-header.

     * Subject: Re: May Lissa's Mom DIE PAINFULLY ANDROT IN HELL**** x-no-archive: yes
       Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:13:02 -0600
       From: ray...@hotmail.com
       Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion
       Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics

       x-no-archive: yes

       ****Disclaimer:  I was discriminated against on the basis of gender today and
told point-blank that this was the reason. Having been taunted by the WHOREDENS and
by Lissa over this, I consider it only fair to return similar sentiments.  When I get
a full apology from Lissa, and from Dave, and his website and RayFAQ go down, I will
CONSIDER changing my attitude.

       Ray, first of all STOP CURSING, KIDS READ THIS TOO!! Dave, lol! HA HAHA! dang!
oh shit! maaaaaan...! lol! hmmmaaaa! Ray's gonna sue you! looool!!!! [laughing]
shit.... hire me as your lawyer. he he ha ha ha... loooll

       <----Stop Cursing?  FUCK YOU.  FUCK GYMNAST WHORES TOO.  They know DAMN well
what goes on and what harmed me and they LAUGH at it.  May they all do a GOMEZ on
vault and have the ambulance do a GRIVICH on the way to the hospital if they are
going to laugh at my career road blocks, sexual road blocks that they CLAIM to
disapprove of...except when they need a job, so then it's okay to show a little ass,
as long as the boss doesn't try to touch that ass. FUCK THEM.  They're moral GARBAGE!
  They know it too; that's why they can't stand hearing it; if it weren't true they
wouldn't care. They're good for ONE THING and ONE THING only, and they know that too.
If they want me to be nice to them, let them undo a few years of damage and apologize
for THEIR attitudes.  They bring this shit on themselves with their arrogance.
Spoiled BRATS.

       You think my suing Dave and Dominique is a joke? Keep laughing.  Please. I'd
love it if you did.  You want to be Dave's lawyer?  Go right ahead.  You punks think
this is playtime; you're in for an awfully rude shock.  I gave fair warning.
Dave(and Dominique through Dave) said "Go for it."  I will. I'll go for every last
ounce of gold that resides in both their scumbag pockets.

       See, I was being a NICE GUY about this before. I decided not to be NICE
anymore.  I get really FUCKING PISSED OFFwhen people mock my pain, enough to where I
start focusing my energy on THEIR pain.  Lissa's pain.  The pain of watching her
mother die the same death my secretarial career died.  Yes, that death. I know what
it's like to watch something you love die.  Watching my father die right in front of
my eyes at age 12 wasn't as painful as watching women get sexually harassed by their
bosses, but that was nothing compared to the pain of seeing women mock the issue,
like it were okay, like they couldn't have the courage to do the right thing.

       Lissa, watch your mom fade away and think of mycareer, and then think of the
fact that I can revive my career.  Noone will be able to revive your mom. No one.
She's DYING, and she's DYING slowly.  Does she even remember your name anymore?  I
don't think so.....you think Dave's such a nice guy?  I don't.  Hedoes that page for
you, Missy, Dominique, and all those wonderful girls who worship him.  You think he's
going to get away with it? He's not. If you want to see God's punishment for your
treatment of me, watch it in your mom.

       My last spell went to Jaycie's knees.  She still competing?  Nope.  The next
one goes to Lissa's mom. Note her condition today and see how she progresses from
here.  Don't mess with a psychic.  After this one is done I'll start REALLY wishing
for some Gomez action on the vault, and I'll start naming names and focusing ALL of
my psychic energy on it.

       Now remember, I was PROVOKED here.  I'm actuallya very nice guy when I'm not
provoked.  Too bad all of you ASSHOLES, PUSSIES, SLUTS and WHORES never bothered to
be CIVILIZED to me and see my good side.  I'm just warming up now.  I'm through being
nice or even thinking nice of scum like that which populates this newsgroup.  Hack me
out of business will you?  Remember that little profile stunt Lissa?  Jesus remembers
it.  Watch your mom DIE and remember the time you hacked into my profile and changed
it to say that I was a child predator.  That's more punishment you'll be getting from
God for your little stunt, you PATHETIC piece of GARBAGE.  You pull some SHIT like
that and call yourself a CHRISTIAN?  Jesus doesn't think so, my dear....

       Tell Dave I'll see him in court.  Tell Lissa's mom I'll save her a seat in
hell.  Anyone who produces a piece of GARBAGE like Lissa doesn't deserve to live well
or even to live. God is giving her what she deserves.  Happy?  You like provoking
these responses out of me?  You want them to stop?  Tough shit. Being nice doesn't
seem to matter to any of you, so it no longer matters to any of me.

       And remember, I am only this way with those who DESERVE it.  Otherwise I'm the
nicest guy a person could ever know:-)

       Becky Ruehl, wherever you are, have a rose  @>--------}-------------------

       I need a pleasant thought to shut off this awful stream of poor consciousness
that calls itself the gymnastics world.

       -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in InternetDiscussion ==-----
       http://www.dejanews.com/   Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More to come...

Disclaimer:
The following is reproduced under "Fair Use"
Do NOT distribute for commercial gain.

Part III

Information about "Ray Gordon", the fictitious internet pseudonym used by Gordon Roy
Parker.

This site contains information about Ray Gordon, a dangerous harasser who abuses

usenet newsgroups. Some recent email addresses were variations of The Seduction
Library coming from AOL accounts, Prior to that he was posting from variations of
ray__...@juno.com or outfo...@juno.com but it is likely that since he spammed so
many newsgroups using Juno headers, that he was finally banned from their system
somehow. Ray also seems to have been TOSsed from AOL as he no longer can post to

usenet from AOL. At the moment his email addresse are: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS"

r...@cybersheet.com and cave...@nni.com. The posting host he is currently using is
Altopia.net, or alt.net. In any case, it is well known that he uses several screen
names at the same time. If you are new to the alt.sports.gymnastics, alt.romance,
soc.singles, soc.men, soc.women, rec.sports.gambling or alt.seduction.fast

newsgroups, please read through these documents.
Part III

Examples of weird articles from Ray
Examples of "sweet" articles from Ray

What have other people written about Ray?

Examples of weird articles from Ray

Ray has many times claimed to be Jesus. Here's some examples:

     * <------------You seem to think I fear death. I fear death no more than Jesus
did. I was Jesus in a past life, you see. That's how I know he wasn't Christ. Note
that I will be 32 years old in 1999. I won't say more.

and:

     * People have proven their eternal hatred for me. All I say in response is
"There will be NO forgiveness." God sent me here obviously to uncover the wrongs on
this planet and present them to people in a package that would require a basic faith
in another human that apparently others are not willing to give.  The people who
preach this understanding are among those who have been the most cruel to me.

       If you want to guess who sent me to this planet or why, that is up to you. But
all I will say is that humanity has been tested by this situation in ways that it
couldn't imagine, and that it has failed that test at each and every turn. You were
part of that process Erin, with your lies, as have everyone else who has lied to
protect their interests at my expense. This world is not where the test matters; it
was done for the next life. Apparently that test is over now because I have gotten
the answer in no uncertain terms. You all said you'd hate me forever, right? You have
spoken, and you have done so based on LIES.

       Satan is what lies are, and God is what truth was. The Jesus you read about
was hardly a pacifist in his day. Do you have any idea what he must have been like in
his time to make people want to nail him to a cross? How many of today's Christians
would have joined that feeding frenzy and killed him? Just about all, that's how
many. Patty and Amanda would have talked about how unpopular he was, and had they
seen him rise from the dead would have pretended that they didn't mean it. That's
what I mean by Phony Christian.

This is an example of his craziness:

     * Oh, and let's say someone did kill me. With the number of enemies I have, the
investigation would be wide-sweeping, and ANYONE who posted negatively about me would
be brought under suspicion, have their lives turned inside-out by the police, and
have to deny ever meaning what they said. Their lives would be made a nightmare, and
guess what? I would become the #1 topic of conversation on the internet, with people
posting about me for YEARS and even DECADES on end about what would have caused it.
You want to talk about hell? Make a martyr out of me and you would find a punishment
worse than the death penalty, because I would literally NEVER go away as a topic of
discussion, all the while I'd be resting in peace. I seriously doubt anyone wants
that.....then of course there is the issue of the death penalty, which Pennsylvania
has, and the notion that many people might be accessories to the crime. And of
course, once I were "eliminated" I wouldn't be posting or angering anyone, and those
in need of a cause would defend me, and all TOS would break loose.

Here's what he wrote about RayFAQ on alt.romance:

     * Subject: Re: Protect yourself
       From: pxy...@aol.com (Pxykick)
       Date: 1998/02/28
       Message-ID: <19980228080...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
       Newsgroups: alt.romance

       Subject: Re: Protect yourself
       From: yadda@yadda.yadda (Young Man)
       Date: Fri, Feb 27, 1998 14:32 EST
       Message-id: <yadda-27029...@fos080095.res-hall.nwu.edu>

       In article <34F5F129...@wolfram.com>, ka...@wolfram.com wrote:

       > Creeeepy. Glad I read your FAQ. I thought he wasn't an especially friendly
       > person, but I didn't realize how scary he was, and here I was, happily
       > putting up with his insults to me and trying to comfort those he insulted.
Sigh...

       Yeah. The freak likes to play mind games and, as you probably have found out,
is often a sore loser....

       <--------Loser? At what? We aren't playing a game here. In America, people
have the right to confront their accuser; I'm being denied that right on the
internet. A person with a true interest in justice would not tolerate that. And you
can't lose when people win by CHEATING.

       You aren't much of a man really. If I were to send to you a woman I was with,
she'd laugh in your face, and you'd be begging her. But the reason I get those women
in the first place is that I have DISCRETION. You get garbage bimbos who can't see
through your posing. I pity them. The women I'm with even read everything written
about me and know that it is false. One thing that "FAQ" does is weed backstabbers
out of my life and document for God who is fair and just and who is not.

       Believe me, God is watching this VERY closely. Take the wrong side and there
will be a price to pay, just like with those who laughed at Jesus.

       I don't know about you, but I don't want to burn in hell for all eternity.
Those who don't wish to do that should reconsider their position on me before it's
too late, because they have been warned. Try taking the tone with God that you take
with me; go ahead, I dare you.

       You NEVER know who might be Jesus in disguise testing you.....

Here's an article where he claims to be a PSYCHIC, and threatens anyone who doesn't
treat him with respect and take him seriously.

From: sotw...@mindspring.com (Ray Gordon)
Subject: Time to cast a spell
Date: 16 Dec 1997 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <3496fd63...@news.mindspring.com>
X-Server-Date: 16 Dec 1997 22:21:43 GMT
Reply-To: sotw...@mindspring.com
Organization: ICN
Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics

I am a psychic. When I can't find justice any other way, I cast a spell. Here's
another one:

I command the heavens to make this true: Any person who criticizes me from this point
forward will experience the following:

1. If they have a child in gymnastics, that child will suffer a paralyzing injury in
the gym;

2. If they do not have a child in gymnastics, their favorite gymnast will suffer the
same injury.

I do this not to wish injury on anyone, but to tell the Gods that I have had enough
of this criticism, andthat if my request in the name of God for people to begin
looking at both sides of this story is not heeded, then I will ask God to teach a
lesson to those who ignore my request.

Just so you know, I made a similar request regarding Tabitha a year ago, she ignored
it, and her son wound up ill in the hospital for the entire summer. That is when she
made her false allegations against me which have led to what you see here.

Anyone else want to try me? If I turn out to be right, you will have no one to blame
but yourselves.

Don't mess with a psychic.

--

Folks, nobody could make this up!

Here is an example of how Ray likes to try to diminish the credibility of those who
post from anon accounts, (just like he does) conveniently forgetting what he does to
those who point out the problems with his posts.

Subject: Re: Anti-Supplication? This is COPYRIGHT 1987
Date: 07 Aug 2001 10:01:41 GMT
From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

If you are new to the group, ask yourself whether you trust someone ANONYMOUS or
someone with a traceable website.

This person has been reduced to anonymous defamation to avoid being sued, even though
that won't avoid it really, just delay it.

By the way, Ross Jeffries, creator of Speed Seduction, which happens to be a rival
product to mine, threatened to post one of his critics' personal information in
response to the critic's critcism of how the SS list is administered. Ross has also
claimed to have special access to people's FBI and NSA files, or other "special
connections" in the government. A few years ago, I was threatened with similar
"government connections" by "Bishop," one of Ross's ballyhooed top students, who
later was called into serious question by many here due to some personal and business
circumstances he found himself in.

Anonymous posters can have any motive.

They are best ignored.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Seduction Library
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

The main reason why no one wants Ray to have any personal information is the
documented history of how he harasses, threatens, and insults everyone who posts in
reply to him.

Here is Ray's rationale for his continued campaign of harrassment of others on usenet:

Path: news2.nash1.tn.home.com!newsr1.rdc2.pa.home.com!newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com!
a-newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!nntp.abs.net!
newsfeed.cwix.com!news.alt.net!usenet
From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: Oozing puss filled sores
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 03:11:14 -0500
Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <9rtkdv$6ok$0...@pita.alt.net>
References: <3bdded8b$1...@newsa.ev1.net>
<20011029230124.12162.00001240@mb-mv.aol.com> <3bdf3...@newsa.ev1.net>
<9rq6u0$i4l$0...@pita.alt.net> <3be0c...@newsa.ev1.net>
<9rr954$o5m$0...@pita.alt.net> <3be15...@newsa.ev1.net>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Xref: newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com alt.romance:30161465

"Sharon Roeben" <emera...@ev1.net> wrote in message news:3be1532b_2@newsa.ev1.net...
 > I am confused. Your saying they do this, not out of sheer spite, but for
 > monetary reasons. Interesting.

Here's the scorecard:

alt.sports.gymnastics -- In October, 1997, I posted an article called "Dominique
Moceanu: An American Slave." It outlined how she was abused all her life, forced to
do gymnastics, and how her coach knew about it. In response to this post, I got
defamed and threatened (this had already been going on within AOL for a year but
USENET is archived), and harassed. My life was threatened on a near-daily basis
because of this.

alt.hypnosis -- In 1996, I posted about a "hypnosis abuse" case where a hypnotist
took deliberate advantage of me. I was harmed, but nothing compared to others who
have endured this. Again, my life was threatened, this time by hypnotists who had a
lot of business to lose if people learned the truth about hypnosis, namely that it IS
dangerous.....

rec.gambling.sports -- In 1996, I began selling picks for sporting events. One
business rival in particular had connections inside a major ISP and was able to
illegally terminate accounts; he even had employees of said ISP look into people's
account information so he could find them on ANY screen name...if he wanted them
terminated, he could fake-forward e-mail or maliciously report fake IMs......he now
makes a quarter-million a year because of the advantage he got from that.

alt.seduction.fast -- most of the attacks against me come from someone named
"Odious," who has told so many lies about me I lost count. When he's not lying about
me, he's promoting Speed Seduction harder than a paid employee would, despite being
"independent."

alt.romance -- women here don't like it when I point out why they get hired, or that
their lack of ethics is what prevents them from finding the right man.

Each group needs validation, so members from one group would move to another and
"confirm" what was being said about me. It's the ultimate unholy alliance. They are
no more disconnected than Bin Laden is disconnected from the Arab Nations.

What you see as a harmless flamewar is anything but. It's business and political
TERRORISM, plain and simple.

Paranoia, plain and simple...

Here is an article where Ray claims to be suing the University of Pennsylvania for
"Employment Discrimination" Given Ray's self-proclaimed mental disorders, (Bi-polar,
or Manic-Depressive disorder) and his obvious propensity for posting to usenet, at
all hours of the day and night, along with the harassment, threats and other posts,
how can he claim that he was discriminated against? We shall have to see...

Path: news2.nash1.tn.home.com!newsr1.rdc2.pa.home.com!newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com!
a-newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.alt.net!usenet
From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" r...@cybersheet.com
Newsgroups: alt.romance, alt.seduction.fast, misc.legal, alt.sports.gymnastics,
alt.lawyers.sue.sue.sue,
misc.legal, alt.hypnosis, rec.gambling.sports
Subject: Ray Gets Right-To-Sue Letter From EEOC
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 19:34:44 -0500
Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group
Lines: 24
Message-ID: a0obre$e63$0...@dosa.alt.net
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" cave...@nni.com
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Xref: newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com alt.romance:30169556 alt.seduction.fast:30153395
misc.legal:30168667 alt.sports.gymnastics:30083315 alt.lawyers.sue.sue.sue:30027767
alt.hypnosis:30049691 rec.gambling.sports:30194593

This is the employment-discrimination complaint against the University of
Pennsylvania. In this complaint, I will be attacking their affirmative-action
program, among other things. I requested that the EEOC butt out of this action and
issue me a right-to-sue letter as quickly as they could. That took roughly six weeks
from the filing of the initial complaint. Usually you have to wait 180 days before
you receive such a letter unless you specifically request one. Once you receive this
letter, you have ninety days from that point to file a discrimination complaint or
you lose your right to sue.

Given that I am going up against an Ivy-League university with a billion-dollar
endowment, in a case which is likely to set several employment-related precedents,
this case will be taking up a great deal of my time. There is a slight USENET
connection to the case which will become apparent!

I will not be commenting further on this case, as it's about to enter the court system.

Well, if Ray wants to take on someone with more resources than he has available to
him, he's more than
welcome to do so.
Examples of "sweet" articles from Ray

Did you read the ones where he bashes Dominique Moceanu? Well then you might be
surprised to hear that Ray wants to coach her! Here he explains why he wants to coach
Dominique Moceanu:

     * Subject: Re: BMcC333
       From: pxy...@aol.com (Pxychic)
       Date: 1998/01/22
       Message-ID: <19980122162...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
       Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics

       Brian Writes:

       You are the one who volunteered your time to Dominique and even now try to
gain her trust. I have no under age sponsor or point of attention. You are the
pervert, stop pointing fingers.

       <------Damn right I did. I believe I'm the best coach for her. I haven't
exactly made that a secret. Now considering that we don't get along and that she has
no faith in that, that would preclude anything from happening, but in her I see
someone who is going to not maximize her performance at Sydney. Why wouldn't I want
to coach an olympian? I'd be NUTS not to. It's not like the rest of the world hasn't
had that chance. But coaching is not a perversion.

       Do I want Dominique's trust now? Sure, but I'm not going to beg for it. Do I
trust her? No way. She's lied too many times. I haven't talked to her in almost two
months and if anything ever changes it certainly won't be because of me, nor will I
censor myself to win her approval; I suspect one of the reasons she talked to me was
that I always spoke my mind where others always suppress things they think she won't
want to hear. Dominique contacted me first, not the other way around.

       You can draw any conclusions you want, but there is no law against coaching
gymnastics. At this point she's the ONLY gymnast I'd ever try to coach, and the only
reason I'd ever coach her is that I would love to be responsible for winning a ton of
gold medals; what coach wouldn't? I believe I know how to get the best performances
possible out of her, and it was that reason that prompted me to make my offer to
coach. In the time since I offered, she went through four coaches and I know I could
have done no worse with her.

       I do not have to like someone to win with them. Check the 1972-74 Oakland A's
for an example of a team that hated each other while winning three consecutive world
championships. I just find it incredulous that one of the most talented gymnasts of
all time has been destroyed gymnastically as she has. We aren't exactly talking
rocket science here; not messing up the number-one gymnast in the country is actually
pretty easy if the coach isn't STUPID.....

       If you want to talk perversion, you should check Dominique's snail mail....I
believe it's littered with perversion. I've never sent her anything, never called
her, never shown up at her meets or even the tour....that's not exactly stalking
material, now is it?

       I'm sure Dominique will do just *fine* without me.....look at how well she's
done so far the last 18 months!!! From what I've seen, she'll continue
self-destructing and not win any medals, and she herself has told me that she doesn't
have a problem with that if it happens. I certainly don't have a problem with that
either, because it's not my career, but if I can do something to prevent it from
happening, I'd be more than happy to set aside a few years of my life to train
another Nadia. It would actually be quite FUN! In the right hands, Dominique is a
nuclear weapon, and any coach who has someone that talented should kiss the earth and
thank God.

       Dominique's problems have very little to do with gymnastics. That is why a
regular gymnastics coach isn't the answer for her. Bela left his Queen hanging in the
middle of the board, and no other coach has seen in Dominique what he did...except
me...and no other coach knows how to bring that quality out of her...except me.....I
said it 18 months ago, and I'm still saying it, and no one has disproven me....I'll
say it all the way to Sydney, in fact: I am the best qualified person in the world to
coach her. That doesn't mean I'm going to like her or she's going to like me; just
means if I coached her, she'd win. Someone's got to turn Dominique back into
Dominique.....lord knows enough people have tried and failed.

       Potential is a terrible thing to waste. I make no apologies for wanting to
clean up the mess created by incompetent gymnastics coaches...there is still time to
fix things...I'd rather say it now than wait until 2001 and say "I told you so." I
also don't want Dominique ever to be able to say that she wasn't warned that the path
she is following is destroying her as a competitive gymnast. She may not WANT to hear
it, but she NEEDS to hear it, and that is why I say it.

       God Bless the First Amendment.

       FREE horoscopes and a COOL romantic advice column on our website!

And some roses to the girl he harasses:

     * Subject:@>-------}---------------------
       From: pxy...@aol.com (Pxykick)
       Date: 1998/02/27
       Message-ID: <19980227084...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
       Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics

       To Dominique Moceanu, my favorite gymnast and one of the few meaningful people
on this planet.

       Your True #1 Fan

       (NOTE: I posted this originally in her AOL Folder but the wonderful powers that
       be delete them all the time even though Dominique likes roses. Very
       classless).

       http://www.cybersheet.com

He also wrote a really long and delusional article about Dominique Moceanu on his
webpage. Here's what he wrote: "Dominique Moceanu: An American Slave". He made
everything up himself and outside of his strange illusions there are a lot of facts
which are wrong. This is actually an example of how crazy he can be. He probably
really thinks this story he came up with, is the entire truth. We would like to see
Miss Moceanu deal with Ray through legal channels.

There has been another final post, this time to alt.seduction.fast but it only took a
few weeks for Ray to show back up on the groups, this time with more anger, more
threats, and more venom... Read it here

What have other people written about Ray?

     Subject: Two Words and Five Words (was Re: Is this really Ross' book?)
     Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:02:10 -0400
     From: jlk...@ix.netcom.com (James King)
     Organization: The Shadow RealAudio Radio Theater
     Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
     References: 1

     In article
     <20000503.113112.-212423.2.Thee_____Seduction_Library@juno.com>, The
     Seduction Library <thee_____sedu...@juno.com> wrote:

     ><------Two words: PSYCHIC INFLUENCE.

     And I have five choice words for you and everyone else. Ray, perhaps you
     remember these words:

     "Don't mess with a psychic." -- Gordon Roy Parker, aka Ray Gordon,
     referring to himself in a post made by himself where he wishes death on
     Olympic-class gymnasts for some unknown (and likely very petty) reason.
     (I've read Gordon/Ray's justifications for his actions, and I comment on
     them later.)

     If Gordon/Ray at one time believed in psychic influence to the point where
     he claims to be a psychic, yet now disowns any such belief in paranormal
     experiences, then it appears to me that Gordon/Ray himself has made a
     change in his beliefs and actions, perhaps seeing that something that he
     once thought worked now appears not to work, and therefore adjusting his
     behavior and actions accordingly.

     While I personally believe there is nothing wrong with this realization of
     things that don't work as well as other things and that there is nothing
     wrong with making adjustments to fine-tune those beliefs and processes --
     after all, that is a part of the human learning experience -- Gordon/Ray
     goes out of his way to criticize Ross for doing the exact same thing ...
     changing his beliefs and actions based on better knowledge of what works
     in his real-world experience.

     As such, Gordon/Ray reveals himself to be a hypocrite of the highest order.

     Or, conversely, Gordon/Ray never believed in psychic phenomena, in which
     case, he was simply attempting to incite fear in young girls for some
     unknown (and likely very petty) reason by preying on whatever fears of
     paranormal phenomena they would have.

     I've read Gordon/Ray's posts trying to justify his actions. The conspiracy
     theory makes for good reading when one is in the mood for comedy:
     Gordon/Ray believes himself to be so important that even Olympic-class
     gymnasts no older than 14 conspire with their coaches and mothers to kill
     him in order to stop Gordon/Ray's lone quest to stop the child abuse given
     to these Olympic-class gymnasts.

     If one is trying to stop child abuse, threatening to kill children
     psychically (even if cornered by a pack of vicious 13-15 year old females
     and their mothers) just doesn't seem to me to be the way to solve that
     issue. Perhaps Gordon/Ray would like to elaborate on his reasons why he
     has led me to believe that he believes killing children is an answer to
     child abuse.

     James King

     --
     Enjoy a classic 30-minute drama absolutely free! http://www.shadowradio.org

Here's another post, made right before Ray was TOSsed from Juno.com...

     Subject: Re: Open letter and closing thoughts for Ray
     Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 23:52:48 GMT
     From: Odious <Odi...@home.com>
     Organization: Happy Slappy The Wonder Pup.
     Newsgroups: alt.romance, alt.seduction.fast
     References: 1

     The Seduction Library wrote:
     >
     > Some Guy Writes:
     >
     > > <------That is LIBEL. Tell your girlfriend that she should teach you
     > > to watch your mouth. A poor choice of words like that can be rather
     > > expensive, as a few out here will learn. If you have to resort to lies
     > > to justify your position, it must be extremely weak.
     >
     > The weakness of your position is revealed by the celerity
     > with which Juno will cancel your account if someone merely
     > clicks "Forward" in their browser and copies "ab...@juno.com"
     > with one of your messages (yes, boys and girls, Juno has
     > a policy of AUTOMATIC CANCELLATION with the person who
     > goes by the name of "Ray Gordon").
     >
     > <------That's called CENSORSHIP.

     Which you agree to when you use equipment for access that doesn't belong
     to you. Every time you create a juno account you agree to their TOS and
     give them permission to do so. However you know you are going to violate
     juno's user contract, you do it everyday. Say, isn't it fraud when you
     knowingly enter into a contract you intend to violate? Ray is defrauding
     juno to obtain access to usenet. I wonder how ray would defend that in
     court?

     Keeping ray from posting is no different than keeping someone from spray
     painting graffiti on some public building.

     > By the way, if you respond to ANY of my posts in the future I will zone in
     > on that "no one will ever hire you again" remark. Your choice. If someone
     > burglarizes a house, they shouldn't spit on the sidewalk of that house. Go
     > ahead, respond to me or mention my name ONCE more and I'll be happy to
     > change my priorities. ONCE. No more warnings. Go ahead, test me. Please.
     >

     I find it so amusing that even though ray has been told that statements
     like this are rock solid proof of malicious prosecution, which would not
     only kill his case, but also virtually guarantee a counter suit would
     win...ray still posts these threats to people about using the courts to
     shut them up so they can't say anything about him.

     In the same breath he cries censorship, he uses threats to keep someone
     from saying anything about him.

     > The real weakness in any case you make against someone will
     > be when they subpoena representatives of Juno if it ever
     > comes to trial. At that moment, you'll burn. Civil cases
     > which have a criminal element generally await the outcome
     > of the criminal trial prior to evaluating the civil matter.
     > Civil cases can also press for criminal resolution.
     >
     > <---------It is invasion of privacy to "portray someone in a false
     > light."

     Not when done in a venue that you willfully attend simply to cause
     agitation and to spam. You can't sue because you went to a party where
     nobody liked you.

     >
     > That you continue to use Juno computers in spite of their
     > express wishes to the contrary constitutes illegal access
     > to an electronic device.
     >
     > <-------That they refuse to seek a court order stopping me should tell
     > you their true wishes. Didn't you know Juno added millions of members
     > last year? hehe
     >

     Oh I wonder what juno's legal dept. would think of that?

     >
     > <-------ONE MORE POST, dude. ONE.

     You're pitiful.

     --
     The Spiffy Page: Home of the Ask Odious seduction advice column.
     http://members.home.net/odious

Here is Ray's standard explanation of why he hasn't done anything illegal:

     Subject: Re: List of LIBEL PER SE Against Ray
     Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 19:29:24 -0400
     From: The Seduction Library <le____seduction_______library@juno.com>
     Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
     Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

     Some Chick Writes:

     > <--------Please show ONE threatening or harassing comment made. You
     > need ACTUAL EVIDENCE, not some fantasy. God help you in court.

     Oh please, allow me!
     __________________________

     Sample #1:

     Done Medaling DM: All in time for Sydney...
     Done Medaling DM: Thanks for giving me your addy btw
     Done Medaling DM: "American Doll"
     Done Medaling DM: Bye
     __________________________

     <--------Yes, it's much easier to SERVE someone with a legal complaint
     when you have their address. You weren't giving yours out, were you?

     Sample #2:
     CYouIn2000: Bitch
     CYouIn2000: If it were legal, I'd set you on fire with Gasoline and
     strike a match.
     __________________________

     <------"If it were legal" is now a threat? I don't have to contest
     whether or not I said it, since the speech is not illegal. Does the
     conversation change at all if you add the CONTEXT where I say "I have to
     sue you in court because taking physical revenge is not legal?" Did you
     mention that your friends were harassing me on a daily basis, or that
     death threats were being posted against me? It's easy to forget one side
     of a story.

     Sample #3:
     CYouIn2001: If it were legal, I'd inject you with HIV+ blood. Go
     report that.
     __________________________

     <----------"If it were legal?" If it were legal, I'd do a lot of things.
     What about Dave (your old Mafia buddy), posting PUBLICLY that I was a
     "dead man?" Or do you remember a screen name called "Kill the hag?" Or
     Dave's repeated references in chats to my MOTHER as a "hag?" That sounds
     like a threat. Oh, you remember that chat with FIFTEEN witnesses in it
     who witnessed a friend of yours threaten to hunt me down and KILL me? I
     have a pile of ACTUAL death threats, some coming from YOUR friends, which
     would shed a very different light on this. Not that any of this proves
     that I am a child molester.

     Sample #4:
     CYouIn2001: If it were legal, I'd shut that mouth of yours up with
     a baseball bat across it
     __________________________

     <------Is saying "If it were legal" a threat? What if you and 20 others
     were harassing me constantly, warning me to "shut up about Bela or face
     the consequences?" You think you haven't left a paper trail? Not that
     any of this proves I'm a child molester.....

     Sample #5:
     CYouIn2001: You deserve to watch your daughters have their skulls
     crushed with a baseball bat to shut up your mouth, CUNT. But this is a
     civilized society that protects even cunts like you...
     __________________________

     <---------This is a threat? People have been telling me I deserve far
     worse than even that. The reference to the civilized society means that
     I respect its laws. Even in a BEST case scenario, you couldn't do a
     thing with this. Nothing you have posted so far is even REMOTELY
     illegal. On the other hand, there's those threats from Dave that aren't
     going to make you look very good. Do you remember what caused him to
     lose his AOL? You cheered him on initially. Think you have nothing to
     answer for? How about you being a former gymnast at Bela's camp who
     knows him and has a rather obvious motive for taking his side?

     Sample #6:
     CYouIn2001: You're lucky I'm ethical or you and your prized gymnast would be in
wheelchairs
     CYouIn2001: Dominique has no friends other than herself
     GymnGDoll: so little you know...
     CYouIn2001: Wrong
     CYouIn2001: Dominique uses people because it is what she was taught to do
     GymnGDoll: that little fantasy world again
     CYouIn2001: If it were legal I'd wipe that grin off your face with a baseball bat
     GymnGDoll: is the wallpaper in there nice?
     CYouIn2001: Better yet if it were legal I'd let you watch Beth become a quadraplegic
     _________________________

     <----------Harsh words, for sure, but you imposed yourself in my life,
     interfered with a journalistic investigation, and provoked me to the high
     heavens. Anyone can present one side of a story and make the other look
     bad. Sadly, however, there are no threats in what you post so regardless
     of what I said, you don't have a thing.

     Sample #7:
     Done Medaling DM: Okay I'll just post every day that she's a
     criminal again and give you the credit for it
     _________________________

     <-------Who was "Domi" in the Gymn Mafia? Not "Dom" who was listed
     separately, but "Domi?" Just wondering.

     Ray, what I don't think you understand is that EVERYONE is recording
     EVERYTHING you say in a PowerTools log format that doesn't allow you to
     change the logs. You can deny all you want that the logs are forged, but
     all it takes is a PowerTools representative to shoot you down. Any smart
     lawyer would have told you to shut up LONG ago. You are digging your own
     grave, and not with any average old shovel, either. Whether you realize
     it or not, ALL of this information is going to the parties you are
     "suing", and will continue to be forwarded to them until the day you are
     laughed out of court.

     <-----------How is anything you posted relevant to proving that I am a
     child molester? Do you understand the concept of IRRELEVANCE? If I had
     done anything illegal, you could have taken action by now. Two years ago
     you were bragging that this was imminent, and you are the one continuing
     any conflict with me by posting. And say what you want about Powertools,
     but AOL records are not accurate. Even with accurate logs, there is no
     way to paint an accurate PICTURE of what goes on. For example, you can
     play little miss innocent, but what if you have friends who are using
     phished accounts IMing me at the same time making threats on your behalf?
     What if AOL had an existing bias against me because I knew things they
     didn't want me to know? If you knew how badly your credibility, your
     friends' credibiilty, and AOL's credibility could be attacked, you'd
     understand why you are not a concern to me. Then of course there is the
     issue of the VIRUS threats against my computer, some of which were
     posted, which is a FEDERAL CRIME. Then there are the hackers, which have
     attacked more than just me and who have left a bit of a paper trail. But
     these are third-string resorts. Your entire game is about to be blown
     out of the water so badly I couldn't even begin to describe it. All you
     do when you try to poison those I sue is make it worse for THEM.

     See, Ray seems to think that by putting "if it were legal" into his
     threats, they are not legally actionable. Involved parties have been
     informed by the police that they ARE actionable...one girl was even urged
     to seek a TRO. What he fails to understand is that PERCEIVED threats are
     also actionable. You are SO screwed, Ray...SO screwed.

     <-----No, PERCEIVED threats are NOT actionable. Even actual threats are
     not always actionable if it can be determined that someone was just
     mouthing off. But was there an ACTUAL threat in what you posted? I
     don't know if you doctored those logs are not, but IMs are not difficult
     to doctor, and even with Powertools, there is such a thing called REVERSE
     ENGINEERING which can be used to alter individual versions of a program.
     This is why USENET and websites will be used to decide this case. Anyone
     can whine to the police with a one-sided story and get temporary
     sympathy. The courts exist so that more informed decisions can be made.

     Your motive since day one has been to discredit what I write about child
     abuse in gymnastics. Did you know that because of your crusade, in my
     defense I will be able to enter anything USAG-related into evidence?
     Let's start with Bela and his gymnasts for the past 20 years. Then let
     Dominique tell all the details of what it was like to train there. Then
     we can move on to CGA and what happened with that coach who left a few
     years ago. Finally, we can move on to that e-mail I was sent by a young
     girl, which proves one of two things:

     1. Another elite gymnast is being abused more seriously than Dominique;
     OR

     2. Someone with ties to your group thought it would be cute to try to
     mislead me and in doing so defamed said gymnast.

     Now if 2) is true, you'll find that trying to defraud a journalist is
     actionable, and if 1) is true you'll find that obtaining that e-mail was
     illegal. Take your pick. I guess USAG is eager to see all this brought
     to light. So am I. Maybe I should repost the "stolen" mail in question?
     Would you like that? I think people should see all the evidence....or
     maybe I should save that for court.

     The Seduction Library
     All The Knowledge Of A Seminar, For The Price Of Two Books

     http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html

     ________________________________________________________________
     YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
     Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
     Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
     http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Disclaimer:
The following is reproduced under "Fair Use"
Do NOT distribute for commercial gain.

Part IV

Information about "Ray Gordon", the fictitious internet pseudonym used by Gordon Roy
Parker.

This site contains information about Ray Gordon, a dangerous harasser who abuses

usenet newsgroups. Some recent email addresses were variations of The Seduction
Library coming from AOL accounts, Prior to that he was posting from variations of
ray__...@juno.com or outfo...@juno.com but it is likely that since he spammed so
many newsgroups using Juno headers, that he was finally banned from their system
somehow. Ray also seems to have been TOSsed from AOL as he no longer can post to

usenet from AOL. At the moment his email addresse are: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS"

r...@cybersheet.com and cave...@nni.com. The posting host he is currently using is
Altopia.net, or alt.net. In any case, it is well known that he uses several screen
names at the same time. If you are new to the alt.sports.gymnastics, alt.romance,
soc.singles, soc.men, soc.women, rec.sports.gambling or alt.seduction.fast

newsgroups, please read through these documents.
Part IV

Why is he dangerous?
How has Ray reacted to this FAQ?
Ray's side of the story.
Is he crazy?
What can I do to help?
Good guys and credits
E-mails from readers and of course also from Ray
Why is he dangerous?

Odin the Allfather says it well:

     * Just to clue in any new arrivals, Ray here has posted SEVERAL times that he
wants Dominique Moceanu to die.  In fact, his desire for children to be injured,
paralyzed and killed has been posted here repeatedly for some time now.

       While Ray does have his infrequent rational spells, he quickly surrenders to
his rages, and lashes out at anyone within reach of his modem.  Given his repeated
posts about his desire to see children killed, allowing him to coach ANYONE is an
insane risk.

       I AM
       Odin the Allfather

We have documented in several places on this FAQ document where Ray has admitted to
Bipolar Disorder, (Manic-Depressive Personality Disorder)  and there have also been
posts to Usenet with clinical descriptions of Compensatory Narcissistic Personality
Disorder, Schizophrenic Personality Disorder, among others. These are frighteningly
accurate descriptions of behavior patters anyone on any of the newsgroups where Ray
posts, have seen. We clearly state that we are not making a medical diagnosis, and
are only comparing observable behavior patterns to clinically defined personality
disorders. We recommend reading the DSM-IV for further information.

NOTE: We do not, and have never claimed that anyone connected with this site is, or
has ever, had any medical credentials, and are not proffering a diagnosis, only
stating similarites between behaviors and clinical descriptions.

There are many posts in the Google archive searchable  for Ray's propensity to
threaten others with violence, collect personal information, commit copyright
violations, plagiarism, and many others. These are all documented on various sections
of this FAQ site.
How has Ray reacted to this FAQ?

After requesting for Ray's side of the story, Ray sent me his comments on RayFAQ.

Before that he reacted by sending e-mail to me and probably abuse at USA.net so he
really doesn't like this FAQ. You can read this e-mail in the negative e-mail page.
He also posted articles where he pretends to be the victim and threatened in
alt.sports.gymnastics to make a Dominique Moceanu FAQ. It may look like this FAQ
backfired but think again. This FAQ is based on newsgroup articles and webpages he
has written himself. That is pure facts from his own fingers. All the notes are free
speech a'la the First Amendment that he likes to wrap himself in.

What he has about Dominique Moceanu is illusions like in that long slave-article he
wrote on his web pages. So his FAQ will be as stupid as that article not to mention
his horrible HTML-knowledge. On the web people have choice to read Dominique's
official pages or pages made by lunatics. Everybody will check both pages and see the
difference. So instead of complaining about the pages and the announcement on
alt.sports.gymnastics, check section "What can I do to help?".

Personal Quote: NOTE:  I am sorry, but due to a slander campaign against me, I cannot
accept any new people into my life.  If I do not already know and trust you, I cannot
speak with you. Visit this website: (http://members.tripod.com/~rayfaq/index.html)
for more info

NOTE:  I am currently seeking a good lawyer skilled in slander and libel cases. I
have a GREAT one.  For more information, please visit this website:
http://members.tripod.com/~rayfaq/index.html

He is also accusing people of being the author of this page to get a reaction or
information. Here's one where he accuses Dominique Moceanu to be behind this FAQ:

Here Ray accuses Dominique Moceanu to be behind this FAQ:

     * Subject: RayFAQ is Dominique's Doing
       From: pxy...@aol.com (Pxykick)
       Date: 1998/03/02
       Message-ID: <19980302225...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
       Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics

       Dominique.....you shouldn't go around having people libel me on your behalf.

       It's not very nice.  Not exactly the right way to treat your #1 fan...I might
       have to stop leaving those roses....

       By the way, even if your name isn't on the site, your fingerprints are, and
       that's more than enough.

       I am truly disappointed.

       NOTE: I am currently seeking a good lawyer skilled in slander and libel cases.
       I have a GREAT one.  For more information, please visit this website:
       http://members.tripod.com/~rayfaq/index.html

Needless to point out that the fingerprints on this FAQ are from Ray himself as it is
based on articles written by him. In fact there is so much material to use that only

a small fraction is used in the FAQ.

UPDATE: Ray is now trying to claim that his words are copyrighted somehow, and that
republishing and posting these words of his are a violation of his copyright. One can
only assume that since he frequently copies and reposts other's posts from select
newsgroups, to other newsgroups, that he doesn't mean that he's violating someone
else's copyright when he does it. The law on this is clear. Once posted to a PUBLIC
FORUM, those posts become PUBLIC DOMAIN. Period. So, with that in mind, let's see how
the saga plays out.

Ray is, and has been threatening for some time to put up a "rebuttal website" naming
his critics in some sort of vast conspiracy. He has even gone so far as to accuse
many persons across several newsgroups of being a "mafia" or otherwise related to
Organized Crime.

Here is Ray's first post to a newsgroup regarding this new FAQ. (It took less than
four hours for
Ray to post. and Ray responded to the original notice no less than seven times in a
nine-hour period.)

Subject: Re: ### NEW and UPDATED Ray Gordon FAQ Now Available Online! ###
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 04:06:31 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>

Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>

Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis, alt.sport.gymnast.moceanu, alt.sports.gymnastics
References: 1 , 2 , 3

 > Funny how I never saw "(c)2001 Gordon Roy Parker" on any of the posts that you
"claim" is copyrighted
 > material. No copyright on speech, but thanks for playing.

Wrong again.

Also, misappropriation of likeness is an infringement as well.

Since 1989, no notice has been required on one's writing, and damages are stiff.
CRIMINAL penalties are
even possible.

I have a very clean win when I get the suit together, I have jurisdiction because my
picture was lifted off of a
PA web server, and whoever put that site up really doesn't have a leg to stand on.

I have a right to control how my writing is disseminated. Taking it out of context
and putting it on a website which
contains ADVERTISING was never my intent.

Editor's note: Nothing written by Ray is, or has been "taken out of context" in any
way. EVERYTHING
published here is an exact quote, searchable on PUBLIC DOMAIN archives.

The site also violates PA harassment laws because, despite its disclaimers, it is an
open invitation to people
to harass me.

Since the site says "go ahead and sue" I'll be doing just that, when I'm done
PROSECUTING it first.

At the very least, since "fair use" is only a defense, this would go to trial, and
the authors of the site will have to
show up. Once I have their identities, the other actions become child's play to file.

I also noticed "columbus.rr.com" in your postings. There's an individual who lives in
Columbus that I got a very
interesting e-mail informing me about. I will be publishing that e-mail in its
entirety, to explain in part the motivations
of this sicko and some of his gymnastics friends.

Once my rebuttal site goes up, it won't be taken down. It will also name FULL names
of those who are behind it or
otherwise connected to it, and their motivations as well.

Editor's note: Only a Law Enforcement Agency can "prosecute" anyone. True, Ray can
file charges,
but then, his ENTIRE posting history, as well as logs from various ISPs can then be
entered into the
public record.

Ray's side of the story:

Ray likes to claim that he was "forced" into posting the things he has posted over
the years. Ray claims that he has been threatened, harassed, and badgered. With his
posting history, examples of chat logs, and other examples of his behavior which are
available, it does seem likely that Ray has indeed recieved hateful posts. Wonder
why? In any case, there are examples available of some of the things that have been
said about, to, and against Ray on this FAQ. Ray's Side of the Story is not as
detailed, and does contain posts where Ray was threatened, although it also contains
posts where Ray is badgering people into harassing him, such as the posts where he
states: "You'd have to KILL me to shut me up. Got the BALLS to do that?" See Ray's
side of the story for details.

Is he crazy?

He lies and lies and lies, hides behind screennames, spends a horrible amount of time
writing the articles and attacking people and makes up insane stories about gymnasts.
He plays Mr. Nice Guy to get someone to write to him and in a split second he attacks
that person and drives him/her off the Internet. Read how Ray in most articles hates
and badmouths Dominique but still he sends her roses, wants to be her coach and
claims to be the best one to coach her. Ray doesn't have a job, he really has nothing
than his illusions. Yes, he is crazy and he should seek professional help.

Good guys and credits

Thanks for your efforts on fighting this Ray character go to:
Odin the Allfather
armagnac10
bmcc333
James King
DClan13251
robrucah45
boonastic
Marcia Proctor
J. Tash
kevraxx
Paul Duren
A Modern Care Bear
john.thornley
PSiKicWaRrioR
Odious
rockies235
DiRGe0513
smu johnson
gymnasst
Dr. John C. Ryan, Jr.
ThnkTank
Vance Lear
Runabout Sam
Lee Darrow
Vince Runza
Yoder
Alex Kaufman
Dave
CalvadosVS
SubZer0
Please Note: None of the people listed on this page are connected in any way with the
Editorial Staff. They are just people who offered support, or sent copies of
information for our use. Thanks.

And many many more. I am truly sorry if I forgot some of you wonderful people. Many
thanks also go to those people who have sent me information about Ray. To protect
those people I don't give out their names on this list without their permission.
However, if you want your name on the Good guys list, just ask. The NEW Editorial
Staff of The OFFICIAL Ray Gordon FAQ won't give out any personal information without
the express written consent of the person. There is no other way we can be compelled
to give out information on our contributors.
E-mails from readers and of course also from Ray

I have received a lot of e-mail from the readers of this FAQ. Even Ray has written to
me and that e-mail can be read by reading negative e-mail. I also made a page about
supportive e-mail I have received. I publish those so that the sender can remain
anonymous. If you want to send me comments, just send e-mail to ray...@email.com

All negative e-mail gets published.

Disclaimer:
The following is reproduced under "Fair Use"
Do NOT distribute for commercial gain.

Ray'sThreats - Part I
This page contains Specific Threats from Ray, as posted to Usenet, along with
selected responses. If you are new to the alt.sports.gymnastics, alt.romance,

soc.singles, soc.men, soc.women, rec.sports.gambling or alt.seduction.fast
newsgroups, please read through this page.

PAGE 1
PAGE 2
PAGE 3
PAGE 4

Note: It's common for Ray to complain that if people were really willing to back up
what they say, and that they aren't afraid of the courts, that they would never post
from an anonymous remailer. Ray believes, and has stated on many occasions that
people who post from anonymous remailers are afraid of the law, and that they have no
credibility because they won't identify themselves. Notice that most of these posts
came through nym.alias.net, an anonymous remailer. The obvious conclusion is that Ray
doesn't want anyone to be able to trace where the post came from, and therefore be
legally able to attribute the message as actually having come from Ray.
----------------------------------------

Notice: Ray has now started to deny that he has ever
posted ANY of the threats listed on this, and other pages.

----------------------------------------

Ray Threatens to Reveal someone's Personal Information
You can read an entire thread where Ray threatens to reveal personal information "he
has" on someone that refutes what Ray posts. This person claimed to be a customer of
Ray, and it seems that Ray, in his haste to lash out at people for disagreeing with
him, mistook him for someone else. The entire thread is HERE

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's one where Ray jumped on a newbie to alt.romance, just
for her asking why everyone seemed to be against him:

Subject: Re: Ray Gordon Website
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:53:08 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>
Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group

Newsgroups: alt.romance

References: 1 , 2 , 3

 > > The site where the page is hosted is odinsrage.com. Take a look at the
 > > offerings on that site for yourself by clicking their "top 25 sites."
 > >
 > > The original version of that website was a document full of many lies you
 > > do not see today. Its original purpose was to discredit allegations I was
 > > making at the time that olympic gymnast Dominique Moceanu was being
 > > abused at home. Though I was proven right later that year, my critics
 > > dismissed that as a "lucky guess" and moved forward, warping the archives
 > > to ignore any provocation or threat against me and to treat my reactions as
 > > if they were unprovoked responses. This is what "false light" defamation
 > > covers; using the truth can be defamation if one leaves out enough key
 > > facts or attempts to draw a flawed conclusion with existing ones.
 > >
 > > Your preoccupation with gossip and defamation only tells me you lack
 > > discretion and aren't a woman any wise man would let into his life.
 > > People who spread gossip are **worse** than those who create it.
 >
 >
 > At which point in my posts was I gossiping of you and your doings?

Drawing attention to it at all, really. Mentioning you have visited the site and
reacting to others who post. Usually these folks recruit loners who feel a need to
belong, or they try to strike fear into those who might stand up for me.

It's a microcosm of how women totally mess up their love lives by insisting that good
men are worthless to them and bad men are "good" or "misunderstood." Like a bull in a
china shop, they have no clue about how much damage they are doing.

 > I beleive gossip is between parties about another party. I believe I was speaking
 > DIRECTLY to you therefore it is not gossip.

It was in a public group, and you entered this thread on your own.

 > I asked a simple question about a simple website which you through out of context.

It's not a "simple website." It's a HATE WEBSITE created by some people who are
acting as a group, defaming me, encouraging people to harass me in my city, and which
has been contributed to by those who have made death threats against me and my family.

Surely you understand you could be anyone with any agenda, and that any behavior
relating to this is something I'm going to log.

 > I repeat, Ray Gordon, I do not hate you as I do not know you. But from what
 > I have read so far, you are not making a very good name for yourself.

Too bad you don't learn enough history, as you should find a bad name for those who
harass me or break laws instead. I'm not going to try to impress someone who enters
my life as you did. Quite the contrary: I'm going to investigate you to find out why
you're making this your business.

When you start turning a blind eye to white supremacy and child abuse and instead
focus your energy on me, or say I should be castrated, you come under suspicion
sufficiently for me to report you to the authorities for harassment (for saying I
should be castrated).

 > You need to lighten up!

No, YOU need to grasp the severity of this situation. If you say "I should be
castrated" and someone then does something to me, you become a suspect, or your
statement taken alone is incitement and I have to get a court order to stop it in the
future.

 >Ever thought that if you praised people instead of cruising (or threatening)
 > them, you may just make a friend or two. I'll be watching...

You're ignoring a lot of criminal behavior, and at this point I intend to name you on
the restraining order for the remark you made. Stay out of my business or be prepared
to get into this legal mess if you ignore that warning.

You don't have to live in PA to be prosecuted here, even if you live halfway across
the globe. You admit to visiting a hate website about me and then say I should be
castrated.

I say you belong in prison.

Just watch your step.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NEWS RELEASE: Ray Responds To Krusty (With A Lawsuit)
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 00:30:49 -0500
From: Outfoxing The Foxes <you___willl_...@juno.com>
Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On Friday, February 18, 2000, Gordon Roy Parker, better known as "Ray
Gordon" filed a $15 million lawsuit against one Keith Alan Rodwell, of
Medford, MA. In the complaint, Mr. Parker accuses Rodwell of libel and
tortious interference with contractual relations, doing so while using
the internet aliases of KR@KR.com and Kusch...@hotmail.com. Details
about the case can be found at http://courts.phila.gov by clicking "Civil
Docket Access" and doing a search for the parties' names. The action
stems from a series of postings alleged to be made by Mr. Rodwell during
January and February, 2000.

An internet search on Mr. Rodwell's name (Mr. Rodwell is the INTERNIC
Contact for KR.com) through http://www.dogpile.com reveals some
interesting results:

1. www.gaylaxians.org/Gaylaxicon97/Who.htm ...assorted furniture) Keith
Alan Rodwell - Treasurere Related Searches from Google for
www.gaylaxians.org/Gaylaxicon97/Who.htm

This page, which lists him as treasurer, but which is no longer
accessible, leads to the "Gaylaxians" home page. The Gaylaxians are a
national organization of gay and lesbian science-fiction fans.

2. Press Release - July 20, 1999 - Frontier GlobalCenter to Host ZDNet
Software L
..users," said Keith Alan Rodwell, director of...
www.globalcrossing.com/pressreleases/frontier/prfr_072099a.htm - Cached -
18k -

This page is a press release quoting Keith Alan Rodwell, who at the time
was working with ZDNet.com.

3. tlas - e-Solutions For Everyone .
tlas provides affordable e-Solutions from e-Strategy and e-Business
Integration through application implementation and hosting. tlas works
intensively with you to understand and define your business requirements
www.tlas.com - Keith Alan Rodwell - Medford MA
 >From Dogpile Category Biz Computers Consulting

This page is TLAS.com, which relates to his work.

4. kr.com - Keith Alan Rodwell's WWW Server
Thank you for visiting us. kr.com hosts the family of domain names which
includes: ajs.com. fido.org. gaylaxians.org. geek.com. hip.net.
arsenic.com. ...
URL: swf.com/ Last modified on: 29-Jul-1999 - 4K bytes - in English
[ Translate ]

There used to be a picture of Keith on this site, and I saved it before
he took it down. However, note the http://www.ajs.com mention in this
site. On a journalistic hunch, I surfed the site, and found THIS:

5. http://www.ajs.com/~jmaziarz/images/keith_bp.jpg

The caption on this picture is "Keith on the phone" and it matches the
picture that was on the KR.com website. Draw your own conclusions.

I could go on, but the rest will come out in court. Let's see "Krusty"
run his mouth now......his statements will only add to the evidence. I
prefer to let my filings do the talking.

Oh, a final note: other cases are on the way. The case number of this
one is 001828.

Outfoxing The Foxes: How To Seduce The Women Of Your Dreams
http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html

"I ain't gonna play Sun City!" -- Stevie Wonder

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
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Note: This lawsuit was eventually disposed of by the court. You can see this HERE
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: She knows what she doesn't want...
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:23:40 -0500
From: The Seduction Library <the___seduct...@juno.com>
Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Some Little Boy Writes:

 > > BTW, Picture of Jeri and I goes on the lounge tomorrow...
 >
 > Hey Jack,
 >
 > Does Vince, Nathan and I get wedding invites?

You know, she and I have discussed this very thing. We were going to
invite selected members from this here NG, but we've decided to have a
really small ceremony, with only family present. I did manage to convince
her to let me have a family friend perform the ceremony, so the Bishop of
the local diocese is the only non-family member who'll be present. Maybe
we can throw a party for you all someday!

<--------How's your slut-du-jour going to feel when her big, strong hero
is sued for LIBEL? That wasn't very good thinking......oh, but that was
way, way, back when....in your "player" days, which are now long behind
you......a lot happens in A FEW WEEKS doesn't it.....problem is, you
violated someone's rights and in one of those ways that gets awful
EXPENSIVE.......look, BOY, you're not cut out for marrigae, unless she's
willing to foot the bills......you think I'm joking? Your mouth is what
did it. But hey, she LOVES you, so your lack of money won't matter, will
it?

 > BTW, did you know that if you invite that guy pretending to be Ray
 > Gordon Parker, that you would get FREE wedding security from say,
 > Odious, Ross, Nathan, Aaron and about a thousand others?

I've offered to fly him anywhere in the contiguous US, to meet in person,
and have an adult discussion, but for some unfathomable reason, he
doesn't have the chutzpah to take me up on it. I think the last place
he'd want to be, is in the same place as any of us.

<--------And this is the attitude that will be your undoing in court, and
probably with your slut-du-jour. I don't need to go to your wedding, all
I have to do is SERVE you with a lawsuit, and you can come here. Do you
even REMEMBER what you said? I'm getting the impression you don't. Are
you enjoying your little insult-fest? You'll pay a large enough price
for it. You think I fear you? Hardly. I just have faith in the
ruthless efficiency of the legal system to take care of you. You asked
for a lawsuit, and one is being prepared against you. This group was
more important to you than your fiance, it would seem. Pity on you, BOY.

The Seduction Library Is Up And Running!!!!
http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html

Outfoxing The Foxes: The Ultimate In MIND Seduction
29 Reasons Not To Be A Nice Guy (NEW!!)

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a reply to one of Ray's threatening posts and emails.

Subject: ray get's hammered by aardvark's isp..too funny!!!
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:31:46 -0600
From: Aardvark <aard...@indianaonline.net>
Reply-To: aard...@maverick.net
Organization: Libertarian Party USA 1-800-ELECT-US
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4

one of the greatest crybaby abusers on usenet just got his comeuppance
by the fine people at my isp, indianaonline/maverick.

these people are very much in tune with what the law is. they do not
bend it's definitions to suit their needs. they sent me a copy of what
they sent ray and it's incredibly laughable what they told him. yes i
did laugh my ass off. i'm still looking for some glue to re-attach it.
ray won't post this to the group so i'll be glad to do so.

i especially liked the part where they will "investigate every facet" of
the poor schmuck's life. i am laughing at ray right now. i do not care
if he sues me. i have nothing, no money at all for him to take & them
towing my car away will be doing me a favor, at least i won't have to
pay to re-plate it.

i don't respond to his posts anymore so this is not a post to him. nope.
it is just me laughing at ray, ridiculing his incompetence with women.
making fun of his herpes infected weenie. teasing him for being such a
pedophile and being so poorly able to hide it. but most of all because
we snap our fingers and ray responds. we own him. he is our fool and our
slave until the day he dies (maybe he'll do himself in?). my isp just
casually bitch slapped this "global law network" chump as if they were
swatting a fly and it's the funniest thing i've ever heard in my life.
in fact every time i think of ray i'm forever going to think about this
email copy from my isp and laugh at him. i'm laughing at ray now and he
can hear my laughter no matter how much he tries to block it out. yes
indeed, ray will never be able to get the intense laughter all here in
the group are directing at him continuously and forever!!!

please read below for more hilarity, you'll thank me for it:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: CEASE AND DESIST
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:39:06 -0700
From: "Admin at Calgary Online" <ad...@col.ca>
To: <d...@maverick.net>,<the___seduction___library@juno.com>,<aard...@indianaonline.net>
References: <NDBBIALNELPGDABNFFMFOENJCJAA.dab@maverick.net>

Sir:

Your email to ab...@indianaonline.net has been forwarded to me for
response.

In view of the fact that this appears to be part of an on-going thread,
and you have failed to provide the prior postings relating to this thread, I
am not in a position to determine if the statements made are malicious,
libelous or simply a statement of opinion.

However, be advised that we do NOT censor our clients, we do not monitor
their postings, and we are in no way responsible for any statements they
may make on the net.

It is my opinion, subject to legal review, that the statements you
indicate herein do not contravene our Terms of Service. They may be somewhat
upsetting to you, although I don't see any indication that you are
indeed the subject of the comments. There is no "rule" that says a user cannot
make a statement on the net, be it in IRC or on a Usenet group simply
because someone may feel offended.

On the other hand, sir, I do not take threats lightly and I respond to
threats decisively. By all means, file suit. First off, I certainly DO
hope you are wealthy, because I will bring all legal resources available
to the table. You should be aware, if a lawyer has not already told you,
that as soon as you file a suit for libel, we are entitled to investigate
every facet of your life, from the time you were born. Libel cannot be proven
if the statements made were true. If you file lawsuit, we are entitled to
take all necessary action to determine if the statements were true, and it is
up to you to prove that they were false.

In addition, you will, in order to file lawsuit, first have to file
against the poster. It is our policy to release the personal information of a
user only to the authorities under direction from a Search Warrant. Any
other attempt to obtain that information will be met with full legal
resistance.

And finally, sir, I would point out that having the email address of
"the seduction library" certainly lends no credibility to your claim.

My suggestion to you is the same as I have made to countless others who
are either our clients, or who have had a "beef" with one of our clients.
Ignore the postings, they'll dry up and blow away as soon as someone
else starts a thread talking about someone else.

Sincerely

R T Maguire
President
Indiana On-Line

----- Original Message -----
From: "David A. Bottomley" <d...@maverick.net>
To: "Robert at Calgary On-Line" <ad...@col.ca>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 11:48 PM
Subject: FW: CEASE AND DESIST

 >
 >
 > David A. Bottomley
 > Vice President, Indiana Online
 > http://www.indianaonline.net
 >
 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: The Seduction Library [mailto:the___seduction___library@juno.com]
 > Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 4:32 PM
 > To: ab...@indianaonline.net
 > Cc: aard...@indianaonline.net
 > Subject: CEASE AND DESIST
 >
 >
 > Your user is making libelous statements against me on USENET. The post
 > in question appears below. If you fail to take action against your user
 > sufficient to put a stop to this libel, I will consider Indianaonline.net
 > to be NEGLIGENT.
 >
 > Believe what you want from the post, but I'm most definitely not a
 > pedophile and most definitely going to take action against anyone who
 > attempts to call me one, and possibly against any ISP that does not
 > enforce its abuse policy.
 >
 > Consider yourself notified. Since I'm being accused of making empty
 > threats of suing people, you will not be notified again; action will
 > simply be taken via the courts.
 >
 >
 > Subject: Re: Possible* Letter From "The Judge" To The Philadelphia Courts
 > Path: lobby!newstf02.news.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!portc.blue.aol.com!europ
 > a.netcrusader.net!192.148.253.68!netnews.com!news!news.good.net!news.good
 > net.com!not-for-mail
 > Message-ID: <38D3F5EB...@indianaonline.net>
 > From: Aardvark aard...@indianaonline.net
 > Reply-To: aard...@maverick.net
 > Organization: Libertarian Party USA 1-800-ELECT-US
 > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I)
 > X-Accept-Language: en
 > MIME-Version: 1.0
 > Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
 > References:
 > <20000318.144055.-222469.10.The___Seduction___Library@juno.com>
 > <p9RA4.55168$Mg.7...@c01read03-admin.service.talkway.com>
 > <38D3EE98...@home.com>
 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 > Lines: 57
 > Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:32:29 -0600
 > NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.15.174.77
 > X-Complaints-To: ab...@winstar.net
 > X-Trace: news.goodnet.com 953415079 208.15.174.77 (Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:31:19 MST)
 > NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:31:19 MST
 >
 >
 > Odious wrote:
 >
 > > Ray's getting a little worried about people with actual legal knowledge
 > > Who are actually sick enough of his threats to take action. He must
 > > have figured that one of these days he threaten someone with the time
 > > and inclination to respond through legal channels.
 >
 > he's self destructive. i truly believe he either doesn't care, hates
 > himself so much that he'd actually welcome getting hammered by the legal system
 > he rails against (guilty feelings relating to his pedophiliac doings) then hides
 > under the bedcovers of, the way that a person embraces their
 > abuser/torturer. or he's just a child that craves attention be it positive or negative
 > just so long as ray gets attention.
 >
 > take your pick.
 >
 >
 > > I think that informing the district judges in Ray's area to the fact that
 > > he's demonstrated very clearly that he is maliciously prosecuting
 > > people for the insults and lack of respect he feels he's got here on usenet.
 >
 > perhaps he should quit before he gets a complaint against himself from
 > one of the underage girls he's been harassing and ends up being listed on
 > pennsylvania's sex offender registry page. that'll teach him, eh?
 >
 >
 > > It's a perfectly legal action to take to deal with someone making such
 > > threats.
 >
 > of course in "the book of ray" it's legal to harass people with threats
 > of lawsuits but should a person give it back to him in kind is a "violation"
 > of ray's first amendment rights. what a hypocrite. good thing i don't
 > respond to his posts anymore.
 >
 > i.e. he has a right to call a man a "pussy" or any other unkind name with
 > no proof thereof but you can't call him a pedophile when you've got plenty
 > of proof (most posted by him).>
 >
 > > --
 > > The Spiffy Page, home of the Alt.Seduction.Fast FAQ:
 > > http://members.home.net/odious
 >

--

Are you ** really ** getting paid to surf the internet?

$0.50 an hour is a joke. Earn $20 to $120 an *hour* just to watch advertisements.

It's really that easy! -- Click the link below to begin! --

http://www.bepaid.com/users.rhtml?REFID=10218667

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Odious's Words Are Your Words, Ross
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:40:29 -0500
From: The Seduction Library <the_seductio...@juno.com>
Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
CC: sand...@mediaone.net
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Mark my words: you WILL be held accountable.

You're not man enough to speak on your own, but it won't matter. The
link is not difficult to establish.

Your ego got too big for your own good, WUSS. You gain a very small,
temporary advantage with your "loose cannon," but the long-term price to
pay for that is dear.

As any woman with a brain will tell you, WUSS, you're not much of a man.
Not much of a man at all.

Odious really screwed you. You're a very stupid man to let someone like
that handle your online marketing. You CAN be held accountable, and you
WILL be named in an action about it.

And you know what? You can do NOTHING to stop it. You will be shown NO
MERCY. I will be filing CRIMINAL complaints against you for harassment,
MEDICAL complaints against you for using Odious to attack me and abuse
his NLP Training (which could be covered by medical malpractice laws),
and a whole SLEW of other criminal and civil actions that will teach you
not to fuck with people.

Say what you want out here while you can, because your empire is going
DOWN, little boy. I warned you to back off and avoid problems, but
you're just too arrogant....just like Steele in a way. Trust me, the
more you run your mouth, the worse it will get to you.

As you like to tell people, you will have brought this one on yourself.
You can't run, you can't hide, and you WILL be sorry you ever fucked with
me, little boy. It's time someone really taught you to play by the rules
and not run your mouth.

The Seduction Library
http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html

Books for the thinking man and the nice guy on how to get beautiful women

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Ross Lacks The Nerve To Attack People Himself
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:53:02 -0500
From: The Seduction Library <the_seductio...@juno.com>
Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

He has his "fans" do that.....one has gotten over $1,000 in free material
for his "work" in harassing me.

Would you do business with anyone else who acted so viciously towards
their critics or rivals?

Think about it. Don't reward this behavior with your patronage. SS has
severe problems which Ross apparently would rather not deal with
directly, and instead he would rather attack anyone who points them out.

Do you really want to be known as a touchy-feely PERVERT by the tons of
women that your approaches are NOT successful with?

Don't you see how he operates? He has you taking the greatest possible
risks for miniscule rewards (sex with a slut is a small reward for what
you have to go through to get it). Of course you're going to get laid
more. Look at what you're RISKING!! The risk is downplayed, the rewards
exaggerated, and you think you have a good approach.

TRUST ME, there are better ways.

The Seduction Library
http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html

Books for the thinking man and the nice guy on how to get beautiful women

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Message To Odious And Ross From Ray
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 17:53:03 -0500
From: The Seduction Library <the_seductio...@juno.com>
Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Since you seem so preoccupied with who I am and my life, I believe it is
best if we resolve our differences in a court of law.

It is definitely counterproductive to clog up USENET with what is
essentially a personal war.

You do what you have to do, and I'll do what I have to do. Something
tells me your expectations of what would happen at a trial might be just
a **little** off what might actually happen, and there's only one way to
find out.

Regardless of the outcome, at least there will be one. See you in court.
SOON.

Assholes.

The Seduction Library
http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html

Books for the thinking man and the nice guy on how to get beautiful women

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Here's Ross Jeffries' reply to this threat:

Subject: Re: Message To Odious And Ross From Ray
Date: 26 Mar 2000 06:10:35 GMT
From: eros...@aol.com (ErosLA77)

Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

<< Subject: Message To Odious And Ross From Ray
 > From: The Seduction Library the_seductio...@juno.com
 > Date: Sat, Mar 25, 2000 2:53 PM
 > Message-id: <20000325.175318.-313171.19.The_Seduction____Library@juno.com>
 >
 > Since you seem so preoccupied with who I am and my life, I believe it is
 > best if we resolve our differences in a court >>
 >

Bring it on. You've said more than enough slanderous/libelous things about me
to warrant an immediate cross-claim on my part against you. I can assure you I
WILL cross-claim....so watch who you threaten, moron.

Bring it on, retardo.

Note: To date, Ray has never filed a suit against either Odious or Ross.

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Subject: Re: Hey, "Rayovaaac", speaking of lawsuits...
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:09:28 -0500
From: The Seduction Library <the_seductio...@juno.com>
Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Some Guy Writes:

State Long Arm Prong: Commision of a <snip>
FYI, if some jerk who doesn't know any better was to buy your
so-called "boik", then as a result of following that crap, treated a
woman in an abusive way, resulting in emotional distress, that woman
could haul your sorry ass into her state on the basis of your having
made a sale to a resident of that state, your "boik" being the primary
contributing factor to the distress she suffered, and nail every last
measly cent you will ever possess for the rest of your sorry life.
Of course, there's always the followup that the guy could sue for
defective merchandise that didn't work as advertised, and ruined a
relationship for him. Then there are the false advertising complaints
to be filed with the PA state's attorney general, along with mail
fraud charges going to the USPS.

<------Would this not also apply to Speed Seduction or any other book?

With a little homework and preparation, somebody could put the hammer
to your crappy financial future for the next millenium. Of course, you'd
be the stupid dumb ass rolling out the red carpet for them. Until we
meet in court, have a miserable life, dummy. Gee, what a maroon.

<-------From a man who cannot even identify himself.....are you mad that
you only made #2 on my list of people to sue? You still placed ahead of
Ross and Odious. Or did you? Oh yeah, a formal notice to Ross and
Odious that they won't be sued until #1 is sued. Just so no one accuses
me of misstating my intentions.

You want your day in court, you'll get it.

The Seduction Library
http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html

Books for the thinking man and the nice guy on how to get beautiful women

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Subject: Ross Attacks The Messenger (Through Odious) And MEN Pay The Price
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 14:12:02 -0500
From: The Seduction Library <the____seduc...@juno.com>
Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Until such time as Odious is properly dealt with in court, I am forced to
speak the truth out here. What you are seeing with his little hate
campaign against me is the type of distortion typical of those who
practice NLP, which is a method of using words to manipulate the feelings
of an audience. What Odious is doing, with Ross's overt or tacit
approval, is exactly this.

In the past two years, I have written two book for men on how to seduce
women, from different perspectives. Both books, taken as a whole,
provide the AFC with a genuine option for overcoming his past problems
with the women he dealt with. The solutions are based on becoming more
desirable to the women he wants, and on knowing the score so that men can
create opportunity and exploit it. The methods are NOT based on lowering
his standards until he is willing to have sex with literally anything hot
that says yes, but instead will make him more appealing to the women who
matter most to him, the high-quality women who don't give SSers or PUA
the time of day.

When someone who markets for a company, either out of his love for the
system as Odious claims, or if there is some other compensation we're not
aware of (it's not relevant because it's still marketing), uses lies and
distortions about a rival in an attempt to discredit a more effective and
cost-efficient product, and to deflect attention from obvious flaws in
one's own product, consumers need to take a step back to figuure out what
is really going on.

We are not talking about auto parts here. All women are far from created
equal. "Getting a woman" has never been the goal for any seducer worth
his salt. Getting a beautiful, intelligent, and KIND woman is usually
the goal. What you are seeing in this group is one of the most pathetic
collections of testosterone ever assembled, a group of men soundly
rejected by women of quality, who have chosen to get their cocks wet by
validating manipulative, game-playing sluts, treating the whore as if she
were a Madonna. Once again, this does not change the reality of the
situation.

Those who take the advice of the SSers and PUA and just randomly approach
until someone says yes will not be able to count on the group when the
downside of this strategy materializes. Most every player in this group
will reach the point where he regrets being a conqueror, especially when
his past prevents him from having the women whom he truly values, respect
him.

The reality of my love life is a lot more tame than Odious would
indicate. I have never declared my love for any 13 year-old (let him
produce proof, which he can't), never "cybered" any minors, and any love
interests currently in my life are between the ages of 18-21. Even then,
the term "pedophilia" legally refers to children 12 and under, so he's
still screwed, that's if I even bother to file a case around this point
given that he's included so many others. Odds are it will be included
just to resolve the issue once and for all.

Do you think any attack on me is reason to buy stuff from Ross? Do you
really think that women who behave the way the men here write about are
worth anything, or won't backstab you? All it takes is one extreme
negative outcome to put a player out of commission for a while. Is it
worth the satisfaction of attacking me and ignoring a true solution to
your problems to have to put up with a truly inferior woman or series of
women for YEARS?

With Foxhunting, and especially with my anti-player methods, I'm having
MORE success with BETTER women than anyone here with the exception of
maybe Mystery (even quality women fall for his advanced garbage, but he's
the exception, not the rule, because he is GENUINELY like that, while
others are wannabes). Not only am I not lying, but I can prove this
EASILY. I can produce women who will back me up 100 percent on this,
women who have said that talking to me about why nice men don't get laid
has changed their thinking and opened their eyes, and that they never
realized just how badly men were trying to manipulate them.

This is a reality which will not go away no matter how vicious or
numerous or loud the attacks against the messenger are. If you truly
want to be a player, and not have to deal only with the sluts, these
methods are for you. If not, you are free to sabotage your love life any
way you want, but please do not try to argue points which I can
repeatedly and publicly refute.

I have found the answer and have the pussy to prove it.

The Seduction Library
http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html

Outfoxing The Foxes: How To Seduce The Women Of Your Dreams
29 Reasons Not To Be A Nice Guy

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sometimes, Ray does actually post something that sounds like it comes from someone
with extensive legal knowledge, and this is the reason why so many people are afraid
of him. However, he still manages to squeeze in the threat anyway.

Subject: Re: Datingmanual dead? (was Re: Layguide being ripped off on the net)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 04:34:21 -0400
From: The_Seduction Library <the____seduction_________library@juno.com>
Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Some Guy Writes:

darn those latvians are fast:)

<------From what I gather, their being in Latvia won't help them much
from a liability standpoint. You also have the US Government on your
side and should consider filing a justice-department report and talking
to the media, because what is happening to you could happen to anyone,
and it needs to be combatted.

I was about to inform trust-e about www.datingmanual.com's fraudulent use
of their certificate plus datingmanual's ISP and yahoo about the
fraudulent nature of the whole site, when I did a last check on it, and
instead of a flashy and professional-looking greeting page, there was
just one simple little message saying:

"We are temprarily down for a major content revamp. Our sincere apologies
to everyone. Please bear with us as we plan to relaunch on Monday, April
10, 2000. Meanwhile you can visit the fine dating sites found under
Yahoo! dating advice category. Our compliments to Yahoo! and these
excellent dating sites."

<----------That doesn't let them off the hook. I'd say still go ahead
with the complaint.

mmm... can't wait for April 10, 2000:)
enjoy:)
tony
The How to Lay Girls Guide at http://www.ut.ee/~anton/layguide

<-----I spoke with my attorney about your case and he said it was my call
on whether it's GLD-worthy, but that it sounded like it could get
expensive. He did say that someone should order the products from the
dating manual and see where the money winds up deposited. That would
probably cut down the costs of pursuing a case and tracking them down
dramatically.

The other angles we discussed were suing the points of entry into the
United States, such as Yahoo, for enabling users to steal your work.
This could be done under IP law or product-liability (I may sue a few of
these companies myself for the same thing so the discussion was useful
even if nothing comes of your case).

This fascist approach is going to be necessary to imbue upon the public and
business that protection of the rights to our work is fundamental to the existence
and development of the internet.

The Seduction Library: http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html
Finally, Help for the THINKING MAN and NICE GUY

Outfoxing The Foxes: The Thinking Man's Guide To Seduction (Classic!)
29 Reasons Not To Be A Nice Guy (NEW!!)

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Subject: Man, Ross Is In For A Rough Ride
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 07:19:00 -0400
From: The Seduction Library <le_seducti...@juno.com>
Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

For the past year or so, I've been letting all the libel spoken in his
newsgroup and in defense of his products pile up. Hadn't really had time
to dive into it the way I wanted to, what with the action against Krusty
being initiated, another book to write, etc.

It's gonna be BAD. As it should be. Ross has allowed his "right hand
man on USENET" Odious, to REPEATEDLY use dishonest mens of discrediting
my method. Fortunately, Ross was kind enough to link his actions to
Odious's with a few key posts, and even defamed me himself in one. It's
about time someone stood up to the bully and showed the world what he's
really like. His method is a lot of an extension of himself: everythings
fine until he doesn't get his way.

What's most telling is how Ross alternates from making the most rational
arguments against what R. Don Steele did to him and not see how he
himself turns into "Steele" when he is the one who has the nerves struck.
It's a microcosmic example of the nice guy vs. jerk battle: the jerk is
cocky, loud, boisterous, but with very little substance to back up the
words, and very little ability to keep his cool unless things are going
his way.

Of course, anyo...

Disclaimer:
The following is reproduced under "Fair Use"
Do NOT distribute for commercial gain.

Ray's Threats - Part II

This page contains Specific Threats from Ray, as posted to Usenet, along with

selected responses. If you are new to the alt.sports.gymnastics, alt.romance,

soc.singles, soc.men, soc.women, rec.sports.gambling or alt.seduction.fast
newsgroups, please read through this page.

Specific Threats from Ray, as posted to Usenet, along with selected responses.

PAGE 1

PAGE 2
PAGE 3
PAGE 4

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Subject: Why Ray v. ASF is a CRIMINAL Matter
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 17:35:08 -0400
From: The Seduction Library <le______seduction_________library@juno.com>
Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

There are a few others, but "Jackie" and "Jeri" are the ones who may be
leading this group into a SHITLOAD of trouble. If you have not defamed
me, you have nothing to worry about. If you have, you are linked to the
post below. NOTE: "Jack" posts from an "Oohay.com" that scrambles not
only his e-mail addresses to avoid spam, but also the message-ID header
so it reads "oohay.com" and even the NNTP posting host so it doesn't
follow the standard format. This means his identity will have to be
traced off of his e-mail. Jeri was kind enough to maliciously use what
she claims is her father's power as a Federal Judge to defame me.

Those who wrote to the Philadelphia courts and "forgot" this message
could find themselves in for a rather nasty surprise. Note the explicit
threat against me in this post, clearly illegal. There are several
others that your leaders may have neglected for you. Is it worth PRISON
to win "Jack" and "Jeri's" approval? Are you so fond of your new
newsgroup friends that you feel they deserve such loyalty? Will these
folks be there for you when you're called to answer why you joined them?

I posted this after "Jack and Jeri" got married, because Jeri said she
has seen all of Jack's posts, and approved of them, so there was no need
to warn her of what is waiting for her new husband when he gets back.
It's amazing how people just forget the occasional slip into lawlessness,
like the one made with this post. As I said, there are many others.
Have fun defending yourselves against this. Y'all support Jack fully in
his threats against me, don't you? I have many other posts with people
cheering him on and claiming unity?

Unity gives you numbers in attacking me, but it also makes you legally
responsible for what the rest of the group does. I know that Ross has
offered to pay everyone's legal bills, but he didn't promise to pay any
judgments which resulted. Did you know it's illegal to make death
threats on USENET? Should a man who makes threats like this be teaching
children?

Subject: Re: Bitchess Melissa won't leave, And Ray Can't...
Path: lobby!newstf02.news.aol.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!howland.erols.net!news.m
axwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.minds
pring.com!not-for-mail
From: "John C. Ryan, Jr." Jetm...@oohay.com (Keyword to: mailto:Jetm...@oohay.com)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast (Keyword to: news:alt.seduction.fast)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:44:08 -0500
Organization: ---[ * ]---
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <382B38A8...@oohay.com>
References: <1999111106...@cotse.com>
Reply-To: jetm...@yahoo.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.fd.09
Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

X-Server-Date: 11 Nov 1999 21:40:34 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; I)

Goddamnit... This has Ray written all over it. Just can't put it behind
you, can you? I think you need to kill yourself, before someone does it
for you.

Your Daddy wrote:
 >
 > Just so that everyone knows, THAT melissa is one piece
 > of hideous artwork.
 >
 > Princess Melissa <gymngdoll@aol.competition> wrote in
 > message news:19991110235320.11232.00004276@ng-fd1.aol.com...
 > > > are you THE Melissa:
 > > > 6463 Windsor Prairie
 > > > DeForest, WI 53532
 > > > 608-846-8734
 > >
 > > Yeah yeah I am that Melissa...but I don't live there
 > anymore
 > >
 > >
 > > Melissa Pearson
 > > Santa Clara, CA
 >
 > --
 > www.cotse.com - Anonymous USENET posting made easy!

--

Jack

<----------<< =+= >>---------->

No longer peaceful, or tranquil...
It has returned.

(Reverse "oohay" to reply.)

The Seduction Library
A Complete Seminar In Two Books

http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html

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Subject: Re: Why Ray v. ASF is a CRIMINAL Matter
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:32:38 -0400
From: The Seduction Library <le______seduction_________library@juno.com>
Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Some Guy Writes:

ATTENTION NEWBIES: the guy who posted this thinks that when someone
says, "Kill yourself before someone else does", it's a death threat,
rather than a reaction to his being so annoying, somebody probably WILL
kill him for mouthing off in real life to the wrong person.
Earlyriser

<----And if they do, and it comes from this group, lots of people could
be prosecuted for it. They have the DEATH PENALTY in PA. Look, fucker,
you won't be anonymous forever. You're just messing with the wrong
fucking man. Same for anyone else who thinks they can hide behind a
keyboard. This group consists of several criminals who belong behind
bars, and several civil offenders who should be sued. Justice WILL be
served, you pathetic pussy of a coward.

Let the real names of this group be known, let the women who have been
seduced and played get in touch with each other, and watch Ross's whole
life come down like a house of cards, as it so rightfully should. Do you
really think your whining is going to stop that? You will be shown to
the world for what you are, as will anyone stupid enough to follow you.

The Seduction Library
A Complete Seminar In Two Books

http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html

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Subject: Re: Why Ray v. ASF Is A Criminal Matter #2
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 08:35:36 GMT

From: Odious <Odi...@home.com>
Organization: Happy Slappy The Wonder Pup.

Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

The Seduction Library wrote:
 >
 > Someone said that what Jetman said wasn't a threat. That doesn't matter.
 > The criminal act requirement was met by the post below, from someone
 > named "Re_arz."
 >
 >
 > There are several others as well. Don't let these gang members fool you
 > into thinking you are doing something innocent if you attack me. This is
 > a direct threat, and all that is needed to show criminal intent among the
 > GROUP.
 >

LOL!!!! Some wondering luker with a freemail account parrots back one
of your own threats, and that is supposed to prove that everybody who
posts to ASF is threatening your life?? LOL!!!!!!

Ray you are an asshole and you piss off different people for different
reasons. People all judge you on an independent basis and come to the
same conclusion, you're an asshole.

You have nothing to blame for that but your own disgusting and ignorant
behavior, ya nut case.

--
The Spiffy Page: Home of the Ask Odious seduction advice column.
http://members.home.net/odious

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Subject: Official alt.seduction.fast FAQ
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 11:49:55 -0500
From: "The Seduction Library" <le____seduc...@juno.com>
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

The most FREQUENTLY asked question in here is "how do I get laid" and the
answer is, BUY MY BOOK. If anyone says anything different, it is only
because they HATE me and are trying to LIBEL me. But I am a genius and I
will get the last word in court!

The Seduction Library
All the knowledge of a seminar, for the price of two books

http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: For Those Who Think Censorship By Harassment Is A JOKE.....
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 12:05:25 -0400

From: The Seduction Library <le____seduction_______library@juno.com>
Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Title 18, Chapter 13, §241 of the United States Code reads as follows:\

"If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or
intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession,
or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege
secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or
because of his having so exercised the same; or If two or more persons
go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent
to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or
privilege so secured - They shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from
the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include
kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt
to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be
fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life,
or both, or may be sentenced to death."

<------------Forming a group whose express purpose is to deny my freedom
of speech as protected by the constitution would fall into this category.
The use of death threats by "the group" would constitute intimdiation
and threatening.

The Seduction Library
All The Knowledge Of A Seminar, For The Price Of Two Books

http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html

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Subject: Reminder, Folks: RICO Has A TEN-YEAR Statute Of Limitations
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 08:35:43 -0400
From: The Revolution <the________...@juno.com>
Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics

The purpose of the extended time limit is to account for various
intimidation factors which occur when people congregate in groups and
harass or otherwise threaten someone. It is acknowledged that the
plaintiff may not be able to come forward as quickly as would normally be
the case.

That's TEN YEARS........

Hypothetically:

Say you libelled someone. Now say you were part of a group where ANOTHER
MEMBER of the group threatened their life. You could BOTH be sued under
RICO.

Of course, if the person doing the threatening were an untraceable John
Doe and the person doing the defaming were traceable, they'd be shit out
of luck......it would really suck that someone could wind up suffering
the actions of another who might never be brought to justice, but hey,
that's the price people pay for GANGING UP on someone. RICO laws were
designed to prevent people from breaking laws in groups and relying on
the strength of a group in committing its illegal acts. It also was
designed to convey FULL RESPONSIBILITY for the WORST actions of ONE
member of the group to ALL members of the group.

TEN YEARS is a VERY LONG TIME, folks........

See you in 2009? Ya never know......

The Seduction Library: THREE FREE Books On How To Find The Ideal Lover
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

The Revolution! FREE Football Selections (3-1 this year so far); also offshore info
http://www.cybersheet.com/sportpix.html

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Subject: Re: THIS IS Ray Gordon Again
Date: 16 Oct 2000 12:21:45 GMT
From: wewin...@aol.com (We Win MONEY)

Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 >>Look at how Steele's people clammed up when Ross's lawyers got their
 >>identities.
 >
 > Ha ha. That was my contact in the National Security Agency, you idiot.
 >
 > You should see the file they have on YOU, Gordon Ray Parker.

Make up your mind, idiot. Either I'm a nobody or a threat to national
security.

Either way, you've just admitted to one of the most serious invasions of my
privacy possible, an invasion I'm sure would be denied if it ever came to
light. I've run into several who use NLP who try this tactic.

Thanks for cementing a RICO case against you, as your buddy Bishop made the
same lame threat a year ago. RICO has a TEN YEAR statute of limitations, pal.

Hope you're ready to testify under oath how you would have access to NSA files,
or why you would lie about said access. Either way, you're one of the dumbest
men on the planet for making a post like that one.

I would also think that someone of your extreme intelligence would know that my
middle name is not Ray, but we'll leave that for another time.

See you in court, Ross.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: 'ray' admitts defeat.....KR has won...
Date: 02 Nov 2000 13:58:49 GMT
From: averypsy...@aol.com (AVeryPsychicMale)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.romance
References: 1

Just for that....

The case against you will be withdrawn in PA and refiled in federal court, in all
likelihood.

That will make it much easier to subpoena the ISPs....

You better hope AIM, hotmail, and newsfeeds can't trace you. This time I'll be going
through traditional means of service.

Lest anyone think they can get away with breaking the law, they can't.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: 'ray' attacks the innocent, and thinks he's a big man..
Date: 18 Nov 2000 00:50:40 GMT
From: iteachh...@aol.com (I Teach Hypnosis)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.romance
References: 1

I will let this joker keep hanging himself until I reveal how I uncovered what I found.

As I've said, folks, it's not wise to fool with me.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: DEANNER Is SERVED: Ray Files A Lawsuit....
Date: 05 Dec 2000 22:59:48 GMT
From: iteachh...@aol.com (I Teach Hypnosis)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.romance

TAMPA, FLORIDA:

Parker v. Dryer, Hillsborough County Court, 13th Judicial Circuit, Division B

Case #: 000-8920

Complaint cites defamation and privacy over internet statements made accusing
Plaintiff of using "statistics authored by other people" regarding his
PowerBase basketball ratings (the software is attached to the complaint as
Exhibit A), and accusing Plaintiff of never having been a member of the United
States Chess Federation (USCF; Plaintiff's USCF ID Card with his membership
number is attached as Exhibit B), along with other defamatory remarks regarding
plaintiff which were posted on the internet.

That lawsuit was filed in FLORIDA, on the Defendan'ts HOME COURT.

He did say SUE ME.....well, I did. He has twenty (20) days after the date of
service (December 4th) to file an answer or LOSE BY DEFAULT.

As the case is now on the record due to service, I have no further comment on
it, though some of the people who post here might get a subpoena or two in the
mail....

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Subject: Re: An Example Of The COWARDS Who Use NLP (repost)
Date: 25 Dec 2000 06:30:26 GMT
From: iteachhypnosis@aol.come4menow (Ray Gordon)

Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 > I live in Canada! Happy Holidays everyone!

Canada has police and courts too.

You're a very dumb little boy......but very typical of the men who pollute this group.

Threatening people just isn't wise, as you'll learn one day.

Ray Gordon, Net LEGEND
http://www.cybersheet.com/sportpix.html (Revolution)
http://www.cybersheet.com/hypno/index.html (Hypnosis)
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html (Seduction Library)
http://www.cybersheet.com/dominique/index.html (Moceanu)

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Subject: Re: Is THIS reality?
Date: 15 Jan 2001 21:11:36 GMT
From: iteachhypnosis@aol.come4menow (Ray Gordon)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.romance
References: 1

 >
 >>"Big talk..maybe someday someone (not saying who) will
 >>visit u in PA and 'explain' things to you in a more, ah,
 >>'effective' manner.. Not fair, for sure.. but hey, life
 >>ain't fair. You talk big..but you can't walk the walk.. "
 >
 >And da key word is "not saying who"... KR never
 >said he would. I even said it wasn't fair. You can't
 >go on for years wishing death on minors, rooting for
 >someone's cancer, etc etc etc without all the people
 >you have upset over the years, all the parents you
 >pissed off, etc, for someday SOMEONE might just do that.
 >
 >Not that it is right.
 >
 >Grasping at straws, gordie?

No, that's your job, Mr. Pathetic. You should check the new stalking
laws...direct threats aren't necessary. Your reference was definitely
threatening and is being treated as such.

I pity that pathetic piece of shit you call a fiance...she has seen your
abusive side, and if it's ever shown to her, she can't plead ignorance.

Let's see how well she handles seeing your ass sued for defamation. Bless the
MA legislature for putting such a LONG time limit on it......you cannot run,
you cannot hide, and you can mouth off all you want, but it's obvious to all
you're nothing but a pathetic little coward.

Ray Gordon, Net LEGEND
http://www.cybersheet.com (The Caveman News!)
http://www.cybersheet.com/sportpix.html (Revolution)
http://www.cybersheet.com/hypno/index.html (Hypnosis)
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html (Seduction Library)

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Subject: Re: ROSS JEFFRIES THREATENS CUSTOMER...
Date: 30 May 2001 11:06:37 GMT
From: theweake...@aol.com (The Seduction Library)

Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 >*THIS POST IS MY OPINION ONLY*

Not much protection if you say the wrong things....

 >The Seduction Library wrote:
 >
 >> Wow, JAY defending Ross?
 >
 >The post of mine you are replying to had no single statement uttered by
 >me. It was list of URLs pointing to archives of YOUR posts. Based on
 >that logic, you sound like you are claiming that your archived posts are
 >somehow a defense of Ross which, to the casual observer, makes you sound
 >like you are 2 minds in one body (one blasting, the other defending).
 >OR, it seems that you would be in agreement that posting URLs pointing
 >to archives of YOUR posts puts you in a negative light. Meaning, you
 >appear to agree that your own words (by themselves) put you in a bad
 >light yet you always seem to portray yourself as being right 100% of the
 >time. That's another example of 2 distinct minds in one body ("I am
 >always right", "My words don't speak well of me"). Hm, it probably also
 >seems that way to everyone who reads your posts.

My posts don't put me in a bad light when one shows the side you conveniently
forget.

Then again, the easiest way to make sure you aren't defaming me is to have
private investigators contact you separate from this newsgroup and let you run
your mouth when you THINK it's safe.....

 >So NO, I am not defending Ross - there is a difference between actions
 >which can be denoted as "defending Ross" and simply providing the
 >group's readers with pointers to access archives of your old posts on
 >USENet, allowing them to make their own judgments about you, a way to
 >provide them with a perspective as to what kind of person is posting
 >what you post.

But you're not showing the entire archive, and you're making implied
statements.

There's also the issue of SEVERAL people on this group breaking laws against me
and in the course of doing so recommending the other websites.

Lawbreaking + business competition = SERIOUS TROUBLE. You would have a
difficult time claiming ignorance as an archiver of this group if you were to
try to claim you'd never seen posts which defame or threaten me.

Got a half-million for a lawyer to make your case or the knowledge to make it
yourself?

 >> Somehow this changes the behavior of those close to Ross Jeffries?
 >
 >Somehow this causes you continue your inane posts here.

I have lots of people who LIKE my postings.....you talk about what type of
person makes posts, yet I don't see you pointing to links of Ross's posts where
he acted in a manner which was quite disturbing.

 >Stick to
 >claiming copyrights on truisms - at least that's not disruptive.

I claim contribution to the group and offer the copyrights as proof of when I
made them. Others changing my theories and putting new names on them doesn't
mask that very well.

 >I
 >think it's time you relax and stop being confrontational,

I think it's time you stopped telling people what to do, and to be very careful
not to cross the line into trade defamation.

 >it's never
 >been positive for you in the past,

Listen up: YOU ARE NOT THE BOSS OF ME, and you have an economic motive for
attacking me (your site has banners on it and IS commercial).

Little pussies like you are amusing to a point....

 >why would you think that would ever
 >change? Do you know what terminology they give to people who repeat the
 >same behavior over and over yet expect a different result every time?

Your confusing the lies of business rivals with economic motives with the
truth, though.

And I would REALLY suggest you read up on the Lanham Act before you learn what
the nightmare of litigation can bring on people who think it's cute to gain a
business advantage by defaming competitors.

YOU are the weak pussy here. Please do not make me prove that.

 >> Wonder why JAY would care so much though?
 >
 >Wonder why Ray is so annoying?

Because I can show women what you pathetic asswipes are really like? Of course
you're not going to like me.

Just be careful about how you attack your business rivals. It could come back
to bite you in the ass BIG TIME.

If I ever took you to court I could wipe the mat with you so fast it would make
your head spin, and your whining wouldn't get you far.

Don't push your luck, loser. I'm no one you want to fuck with.

The Seduction Library: solve your love life! FREE!!
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

Ross Jeffries' rebuttal:

Subject: Re: ROSS JEFFRIES THREATENS CUSTOMER...
Date: 30 May 2001 14:58:42 GMT

From: eros...@aol.com (ErosLA77)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 >Subject: Re: ROSS JEFFRIES THREATENS CUSTOMER...
 >From: theweake...@aol.com (The Seduction Library)
 >Date: Wed, May 30, 2001 4:06 AM
 >Message-id: <20010530070637.14704.00002133@ng-cm1.aol.com>
 >
 >
 >My posts don't put me in a bad light when one shows the side you conveniently
 >forget.

Yeah, it's NORMAL to fantasize about bashing in little kids' heads with
baseball bats, Ray Ray. EVERY ONE does it. Especially when they are:

1. Jesus
2. World Class Chess Champions
3. Gymnastics Coaches
4. Stock Market Experts who could bring the whole market down
5. World Class Racing Handicappers

Who just HAPPEN to be living with Mommy, as well as being bi-polar.

Ha ha ha. Do you REALLY think you can intimidate people into pointing out
your sick, twisted mentation, utterances and behavior?

 >
 >Then again, the easiest way to make sure you aren't defaming me is to have
 >private investigators contact you separate from this newsgroup and let you
 >run >your mouth when you THINK it's safe.....

Ray Ray..are you THREATENING this person? The funny thing is, NO ONE needs
private investigators to get the dirt on you; your own idiotic behavior, right
here on Usenet, is archived for all to see.

And the more hilarious thing is, YOU DON'T GET IT. You really think you can be
free to run off your mouth in the most sick, twisted, perverted ways, praying
for people to DIE, wishing you could inject them with HIV_+ blood, and expect
to be taken as somehow a credible source on this newsgroup.

 >
 >But you're not showing the entire archive, and you're making implied
 >statements.

Boo hoo. Poor widdle Way Way isn't getting 100% fair tweatment.

Wake up and smell Penny's panties, Way Way. You justly DESERVE the contempt
with which you are treated.
 >
 >There's also the issue of SEVERAL people on this group breaking laws against
 >me >and in the course of doing so recommending the other websites.

Rubbish. Saying your an idiot and pointing it out isn't breaking the law, it
is fair, free and ACCURATE commentary. It is FACT.

Ray:

1. You are an idiot
2. Your ideas are lame
3. You are deserving of contempt
4. The contempt you receive is solely a function OF YOUR OWN BEHAVIOR. There is
NO "conspiracy" other than your own self-destructive lack of control.

Now....care to sue ME? You've been threatening for years. So far,
nuthin....what's a matter? Afraid of someone with my resources..."money and
lawyers"? Strongly aware I'd sue you back in a heartbeat and dig into every
corner and crevice of your sordid little life? WELL AWARE I'd organize all the
people you've victimized with your threats and sick behavior and bring them ALL
legally to bear to expose to all the twisted little cockroach you truly are?

 >
 >Lawbreaking + business competition = SERIOUS TROUBLE. You would have a
 >difficult time claiming ignorance as an archiver of this group if you were
 >to
 >try to claim you'd never seen posts which defame or threaten me.

NO one has broken ANY laws against you, as far as I can see. Even if they had,
NO jury would rule in your favor, once they hear a few of your victims come
forward and reveal your sick death-wishes, you twisted psycho.

 >
 >Got a half-million for a lawyer to make your case or the knowledge to make
 >it >yourself?

Yes. Now bring it on, freak boy, and be prepared for a cross-claim that will
have you gulping Vodka and popping pills like they are going out of style.

 >
 >I have lots of people who LIKE my postings....

Yeah, Amanda Borden and Dominique what's her face, for starters, you sick
little freak.

How about this?

Ray Gordon is a twisted fool #1 of Infinity.....

 >
 >I think it's time you stopped telling people what to do, and to be very
 >careful >not to cross the line into trade defamation.

One who has NO reputation cannot have that reputation impugned or diminished.
You have made yourself libel-proof.

 >
 >
 >Listen up: YOU ARE NOT THE BOSS OF ME,

Now, THAT is a true statement - he's not wearing a black hood and shoving his
fist up your ass.

 >
 >And I would REALLY suggest you read up on the Lanham Act before you learn
 >what >the nightmare of litigation can bring on people who think it's cute to gain
 >a >business advantage by defaming competitors.

Yeah, well you are a world-class paralegal too, with that world-wide network
to sue people everywhere, remember? Shudder....

 >
 >YOU are the weak pussy here. Please do not make me prove that.

Bring it on. C'mon, Ray Ray. Ya liar and cowardly pussy. BRING...IT...ON...

Or shut up and go away.

 >
 >If I ever took you to court I could wipe the mat with you so fast it would
 >make >your head spin, and your whining wouldn't get you far.

Empty threats. From an empty-sac. With an empty war-chest.

 >
 >Don't push your luck, loser. I'm no one you want to fuck with.

No, his name isn't Penny.

To date, Ray has not sued Ross.

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Subject: Re: ITs Payback time....
Date: 20 Jul 2001 18:46:49 GMT

From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

Do you understand COPYRIGHT LAW?

I wouldn't advise doing what you are doing.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Seduction Library
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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Subject: Re: !!! OT Things to remember when dealing with Ray !!!
Date: 15 Sep 2001 11:09:06 GMT

From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 >> Again I recommend that everybody make sure and spread ray's words around
 >> to everybody who might be interested in hearing about his feelings that
 >> the people in New York deserved to die. Let ray's words stand with his
 >> name and address attached. The very worst thing that can happen to ray
 >> is to give him a microphone... let his words ring out with his name and
 >> address attached.
 >>
 >> Perhaps someone might mail copies to all the residents living in his
 >> area. Not with threats or calls to violence... just with what ray said
 >> and where he lives. There is nothing illegal in spreading ray's message
 >> for him. Something tells me the people in Ray's neighborhood will
 >> explain to ray the error of his ways.
 >
 >I will PAY someone to do this!

Look up the laws to see which one you just threatened to break.

 >Does anyone want the job? I also like
 >your idea about posting his messages on local telephone poles and such.

Again, check the laws.

 >What about the local Newspaper? I think attention really needs to be drawn
 >to this guy before he hurts himself, his mother, or others. I think he
 >needs to be Baker Acted or something. Anyone that displays his level of
 >sociopathic qualities REALLY NEEDS TO BE TAKEN OFF THE STREET.

Hope you know what you're doing legally speaking.........

 >I think >contacting his local Mental Health authorities is in order.

Now you do that even ONCE you're breaking some laws, but hey have fun.

 >Ray is ONE SICK >PUPPY. He needs to be institutionalized. There are certain
provisions in
 >which a Judge can ORDER him to seek help.

Not in this state......

Just remember, you need to sign your names to everything, and remember as well
that ONE person from this group is already learning the price of fucking with
me as he has the cops in his life.

That said, I have broken no laws. You guys, on the other hand, are dancing
dangerously close to the line, and it's not MY responsibility to tell you where
that line is.

Notice that Winterpuke's big mouth isn't so big anymore?

Harassing me and my family has its price.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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Subject: Re: LEGAL NOTICE: Ray Presses Charges Against "Wintermute"
Date: 15 Sep 2001 13:30:54 GMT

From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 >> All I did was say a few very rude but true things.
 >
 >Ray, do a search on Westlaw for "fighting words". Remember, if someone
 >kicks your ass after you persistently provoke him, the jury is very
 >likely to give him a walk.

Wrong again.........premeditated assault is never justified.

If that were the case, I could claim provocation far beyond anything I've ever
been accused of.

I stockpiled almost every instance of harassment I've endured online since I
got out here. As people are "notifying" others of my conduct, I am getting
rebuttal time I wouldn't otherwise get.

What I am proving is that people are not just speaking out against me, but
ACTING out, OFFLINE, which means it's not "just the internet" to them, and
offline rules apply.

People go to JAIL for stuff like this. The SECOND anyone takes their crusade
offline is when law enforcement will take them seriously.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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This will be continued on PAGE THREE

Specific Threats from Ray, as posted to Usenet, along with selected responses.

Disclaimer:
The following is reproduced under "Fair Use"
Do NOT distribute for commercial gain.

Ray's Threats - Part III

This page contains Specific Threats from Ray, as posted to Usenet, along with

selected responses. If you are new to the alt.sports.gymnastics, alt.romance,

soc.singles, soc.men, soc.women, rec.sports.gambling or alt.seduction.fast
newsgroups, please read through this page.

Specific Threats from Ray, as posted to Usenet, along with selected responses.

PAGE 1
PAGE 2
PAGE 3
PAGE 4

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Subject: Re: What is FORMHANDLE'S Ethnicity Again?
Date: 16 Sep 2001 14:40:00 GMT

From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 >> > >So Ray's a racist as well as a pedo, a misogynist, and an asshole.
 >> >
 >> > Wow back to defaming me again, I see.....you're what lawyers call
 >"stupid."
 >> >
 >>
 >> You're hassling someone over their race, so you're a racist.
 >>
 >> You hate women, so you're a misogynist.
 >>
 >> You demonstrate a sexual obsession with under aged girls, so you're a
 >> pedo.
 >>
 >> Where is the defamation?
 >
 >Good point.
 >
 >Incidentally, in an action for libel, truth is a complete defense.

Oh, he's defaming me alright, but thanks to the wisdom of a CA court a few
weeks ago, he may be covered by a loophole.

Won't matter when the RICO broom eventually comes down on the people here who
have engaged in a conspiracy to destroy my business.

As for defamation, read what he wrote about my mom. To sue him, we'd have to
chase him 3,000 miles, and frankly he's not worth the money.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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Subject: Re: The REAL reason that Odious continues this childish feud
Date: 16 Sep 2001 16:12:55 GMT

From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

Newsgroups: alt.romance
References: 1

 > What is it about filtering Ray's critics ALONG WITH RAY that you don't
 > comprehend? The unspoken assumption you fail to mention is that you are
 > filtering Ray's messages, and we should do likewise. If that is so, then why
 > do you not know how to add our addresses to the filer as well?
 > That's not the way it is, is it? Tell the truth. Your goal is to see Ray
 > continue posting because you are not filtering him, and you apparently enjoy
 > his messages. It is the actions of his critics that upsets you, and its only
 > those critics you want to see stopped. This is the only logical deduction based on
 > your behavior. The combined total of all new messages in this newz group in 5 or 6
 > days isn't worthy of bitchin about bandwidth, so your whining is more about WHO
 > is posting. Take a good look at the holes in your argument, and fill 'em. Either
filter
 > us all, ALONG WITH RAY, or shut the Hell up.

TOMMY BOY here thinks we don't know about his little messages under OTHER
identities.

I think his WIFE stands over his back henpecking him.

Wait until the little expose someone did on him and his little CUNT of a wife
gets published by me, or should I say REPUBLISHED, thus making me TOTALLY
immune regarding its content.

Anyone who operates with this sorry little fuck is BEGGING to have criminal
charges brought down upon him or her.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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Subject: Re: Ray Gordon
Date: 24 Sep 2001 15:14:39 GMT

From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 >> Yes it is. In fact, I had wondered why the number stayed so low, but I
 >> know from my own records it matches the number of people who have
 >> personally sent money to me and not used "webaccept."
 >
 >In that case, then, Paypal is lying about what the numbers mean. I'm
 >sure you've contacted them to let them know.

Actually, I don't have to.

Since not all Paypal members are verified, anyone who concludes that the number
of VERIFIED customers one has is reflective of how much business they're doing
is already negligent, as there's no reason to assume the relationship in the
first place.

 >> I've also seen similarly low numbers with others I've done business
 >> with on Paypal. Call them and check your facts before you go off
 >> drawing one of those defamatory conclusions of yours.
 >
 >I did check my facts, Gordon. You'll notice that in the original email
 >(the part which you deleted) I mentioned that unverified members that
 >are not counted as part of the total are a possibility.

A very strong possibility.........

 >> > The number is the number of verified Paypal members that have paid
 >> > that seller, according to Paypal. There is no mention of business
 >> > vs. nonbusiness members by Paypal.
 >
 >> Which is why it's confusing, giving you your favorite scenario of
 >> being able to lie about me and then claim confusion even though malice
 >> is your motivator.
 >
 >It's not a lie to say that Paypal is posting that 7 verified members
 >have used the Paypal service to send you money.

It IS a lie to imply that this is how many customers I have or have had. Just
not a big enough lie for the courts to care (unless you continue it).

 >It's also not a lie to state that the above is what Paypal is posting
 >regarding your account as of this time.
 >
 >Obviously, if you believe that telling the truth is defamation, then
 >you are certainly welcome to try to sue over those comments.

"False light" defamation covers manipulating the truth to make it appear like a
lie.

Your biggest worry has to do with the extortion threats you made before, and
the many "conclusions" you've drawn about me which are definitely defamatory.

Sorry to cut this short, but I'm working on having you locked up for your
criminal behavior towards me, along with some other idiot from my area who
threatened me, and who seems to be working in concert with people on this group
(who can be held liable for his actions).

You lose your credibility when you nitpick with me over stuff like this and
ignore Ross Jeffries' threats against his customer to reveal the customer's
private information.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Seduction Library

Learn the secrets of seduction tens of thousands of readers already know!

http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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Subject: Re: Ray is a threat to rival businesses (obviously, or they wouldn't be
doing THIS)
Date: 25 Sep 2001 04:54:15 GMT

From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 >> For taking legal action against those who violate my rights?
 >>
 >> By "hassle" I was referring to someone who was making direct threats
 >> against me.
 >
 > When he does it it's "legal action" but when someone else does it's
 > contemptible and worth repeatedly criticizing. Since when is it legal to
 >i nvade someone's privacy as a retaliating act? Legal action my nutsack.
 >
 > HYPOCRITE.

If I were you I'd back off NOW.

 >
 >How about instead of continually attacking his "competition" he makes his
 >own "product" better.

My product is FINE, but thanks for your concern.

 >The again how do you improve upon raw shit? Make
 >shit salad?

You're BEGGING for trouble. And receive it you shall. I will not tolerate
defamation from you any more than I tolerated the harassment.

You're a VERY stupid young man.....

Ray Gordon, Author
The Seduction Library

Learn the secrets of seduction tens of thousands of readers already know!

http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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Subject: Re: Ray's Legal Actions (TROLL: Ray is a threat to rival businesses)
Date: 25 Sep 2001 04:56:17 GMT

From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 >It's a free country. Anyone can sue anyone. But it would be a bizarre world
 >if manic-depressive child-stalking USENET-spamming terrorist-sympathizing lying
 >aspiring male secretaries stood any chance of winning anything at all in
 >court.

This is a defamatory remark from you.

I'd advise you to be careful, as you're exchanging words with someone who has
also threatened me in the past.

 >If anyone needs me as a witness against Ray, email me. I'll even take a train
 >to Philadelphia just to meet Mr. Parker.

Witness to what?

You may be the one who winds up sued.

A complaint will be filed with Columbia University, however, on the grounds
that your defamation of me is against their rules.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Seduction Library

Learn the secrets of seduction tens of thousands of readers already know!

http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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Subject: Re: Ray Gordon Deliberately Misleads Potential Customers
Date: 25 Sep 2001 07:14:35 GMT

From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com

Newsgroups: alt.romance
References: 1

 >Very simple reply and so the record is clear. You are full of it Ray. I
 >have the case. You do not. Last time I went to court, legal bill was over $2
 >Million. Want to go for it, bring it on.

If you're so eager to be sued, state your name, address, and the name and
contact information for your attorney.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Seduction Library

Learn the secrets of seduction tens of thousands of readers already know!

http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Ray's Legal Actions (TROLL: Ray is a threat to rival businesses)
Date: 25 Sep 2001 07:17:00 GMT

From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 >>You may be the one who winds up sued.
 >
 >Sue me already, Parker. What are you waiting for?

I'm in the process of pressing criminal charges against Winterpuke (that case
is still WIDE open), and considering a civil action against him under RICO
and/or tortious interference statutes which relate to comments he's made about
me or my business.

Discovery into his telphone and e-mail records would reveal if he was acting
alone (in which case RICO wouldn't apply), or if he's had some help.

Needless to say, if he ratted out others and provided proof he'd wind up off
the hook in a heartbeat.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Seduction Library

Learn the secrets of seduction tens of thousands of readers already know!

http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: TROLL Re: Field Report: Wing and I are tag-team champs :-)
Date: 27 Sep 2001 06:37:09 GMT

From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 >> You also have a history of threatening me and defaming me, for which you
 >> are going to be brought to justice.
 >
 >
 >Brought to justice? Whatever. When you actually win a lawsuit against
 >me or get me arrested (which will never happen, as I am not guilty of
 >anything other than getting you angry) then you can strut around like a
 >big shot. Until then all you have are empty threats.

Need I quote your archived threats?

A civil case takes time to build and will be built; criminal charges are up to
the cops (because you wised up and apologized **profusely** you got a benefit
of the doubt, but then again have they seen the "field report?"), but you know
what you put yourself through even if you don't tell the group.

Keep telling yourself you have an exemption to tortioius-interference laws.
Just don't whine when you get served with a lawsuit, which you will.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Seduction Library

Learn the secrets of seduction tens of thousands of readers already know!

http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Just Drafted The Lawsuit Against Winterpuke
Date: 29 Sep 2001 01:15:59 GMT

From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Spent half a FUCKING day on it.......dotting every i, crossing every t.....

I think of this poor idiot and what's going on in his head.....he's like a
football team down 27-0 with 3:00 to go in the fourth quarter still thinking it
can win....he thinks the laws don't apply to him somehow....someway.....or that
I can't take a stupid complaint downtown to City Hall and file it (which will
cost me $214.50, unfortunately, thanks to HIS illegal conduct).....or that I
can't take a subpoena to UPenn to get his name....

Reality for this pathetic little punk will be setting in shortly.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Seduction Library

Learn the secrets of seduction tens of thousands of readers already know!

http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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Subject: Legal Notice: Why What You're Doing To Ray Is Illegal
Date: 29 Sep 2001 17:00:38 GMT

From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

This is from "Imperial Ice Company v. Rossier" (18 Cal.2d 33, 112 P.2d 631),
and an analysis of the concept of tortious interference from the website:

<<<<<<In analyzing any tort, the best approach is to review the four standard
elements of any tort: duty, breach of duty, damages, and proximate cause of
damages. The finding in Imperial Ice Company case and a principle of law
regarding this tort is that all persons who are not a party to a contract have
the responsibility not to interfere with the performance of the contract. Thus,
a duty exists for nearly everyone. (from the website).>>>>>>>>>>

<<<<<"It is universally recognized that an action will lie for inducing breach
of contract by a resort to means in themselves unlawful, such as libel,
slander, fraud, physical violence or threats of such action. Most jurisdictions
also hold that an action will lie for inducing a breach of contract by the use
of moral, social, or economic pressure, **in themselves lawful**.......">>>>>>>
(from the court)

Note the words IN THEMSELVES LAWFUL.

That means that you can STILL be sued for tortious interference even if the
underlying conduct is perfectly legal.

This refers to any CONTRACTURAL relationship, OR to any "existing OR potential
business relationship."

Contractural relationships would include landlord-tenant, which would be
"breached" by those who would wish to extend their campaigns to my hometown.

Suffice it to say that those who have acted upon the "Disclaimer" or "useful
information" posts can and will be sued, and they will be sued HERE, in
Philadelphia.

Note also that a breach can be established by "illegal acts" themselves (such
as making terroristic or violent threats).

Consider yourselves warned.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Seduction Library

Learn the secrets of seduction tens of thousands of readers already know!

http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Miles the COWARD
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 23:23:53 -0400
From: "Ray Gordon" <R...@cybersheet.com>
Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access - http://www.altopia.com
Newsgroups: alt.romance

First he threatens me.

Then he defames me. Many times.

A few women here cheer him on, typical cunts.

He tries to act like trader trash had some type of morals.

THEN, when he realizes he's fucked, he says he's not going to post anymore,
but leaves me with a conditional DEATH THREAT.

That's after he's busy being a pathetic horny loser who hires for looks.

This DWEEB thinks hiring a LAWYER will help him? It'll help the lawyer a
lot, that's for sure.

You can't BE more pathetic of a man than this.

The fucker is about to have a CRIMINAL complaint filed against him, with the
civil one to follow.

Then we will see this BOY learn some RESPECT and who he can or cannot defame
or threaten.

Bet his lawyer or his family told him to shut his stupid little mouth
too......

What a fucking loser. The courts will see just how much.

Little punk wants to be a toughguy? Let him explain to the judge what the
"means" he'd use to "take care of me" are. Does he know no direct threat is
required to go to PRISON in PA for stalking? He's about to learn....

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Subject: LEGAL NOTICE to "Gymnastics Gang" members.....
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:46:40 -0400
From: "Ray Gordon, Genius" <R...@cybersheet.com>
Organization: cybersheet.com
Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics

A RICO action is being built against your group.

Specifically, the three young MALES who made violent threats against me from
this group, one on a website, and another on this newsgroup will be named,
as will the known Pennsylvania resident of the gang (that gives absolute
jurisdiction even though I'd get it anyway), who is a gymnastics mom.

Simply put, whoever talks first has their name removed as a defendant.
Anyone else with information regarding this "gang" may contact me at
Cave...@nni.com with more information (do not reply to the anti-spam reply
address). Be assured that if you aren't willing to sign an affidavit
attesting to what you claim online, don't bother.

Offer valid through time of lawsuit filing. Don't bother responding here,
as I probably won't even get to read it.

Should anyone want the name of the attorney handling this matter, they can
name THEIR attorney, and the information will be supplied there.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: James King: Please Post Or E-mail Me Your Address
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:37:31 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>
Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group

Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Criminal charges WILL be filed against you.

Others have copied your threats.

You're about to get your wish.

Ignore this post and I'll subpoena it anyway.

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Subject: LEGAL NOTICE: Prefiling RICO Motion Coming Against "Gymnastics Gang"
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:42:24 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>
Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group

Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics

I will be seeking the identities of several posters to this group over the
past several years.

They know who they are.

This is in preparation for a RICO action to be filed within one year of this
posting, or as soon as is possible thereafter.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Ray makes a fool of himself again and again and again and again and
again and again
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 01:21:53 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>
Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group

Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics, alt.hypnosis, alt.seduction.fast, alt.romance,
rec.gambling.sports
References: 1

 > >All you need for RICO are two terroristic threats in a ten-year period plus
 > >a LOOSE agreement among the group to act in concert against an individual.
 >
 > Act in concert to do something ILLEGAL. You left out that very important
 > little word ya moron!

Offline harassment of the type threatened, plus several previous threats
over the past several years, qualify.

 > There is NOTHING illegal about telling you what an ASSHOLE you are.
 >
 > There is NOTHING illegal about telling people your EXACT QUOTED WORDS.

Actually there is: it's called "false-light defamation." Truth is also not
a defense against harassment or extortion, plus your previous defamation is
still actionable, and reveals your true motive.

 > You know what Ray . . .FRIDAY morning I'm calling my advertising guy and I
 > really AM going to send out postcards.

It's your prison sentence if you do......all it takes is one instance and
you'll see what you're in for.

 > AND I'm going to keep you posted as to whats happening. I'm going to let you
 > know how much it cost, I'm going to let you know when the printer is done, I'm
 > going to SCAN one of the postcards and post it HERE as soon as I get them back
 > from the printer, I'll be postinhg the day and date that they went to the post
 > office, and then YOU can sit and wait forthem to arrive. Be sure and post up
 > when you receive YOURS in your mailbox. I'm going to blanket all of Philadelphia.

Hmm....1.4 million people x 25 cents each = $350,000 to stalk and harass me
and my family.

Like I said, it's your prison sentence.

 >You have 48 hours to post a COMPLETE PUBLIC RETRACTION AND PUBLIC APOLOGY.
 >
 > If we don;t have yourretraction and apology by 9 AM Friday morning, your worst
 > nightmare is about to come true.

It's your prison sentence......

 > I've already checked with my lawyer and she will be supervising every step of
 > the way to make sure no laws are broken.

Name the lawyer! Can you? LOL.

Like I said, you'll be going to jail if you try it.....worse yet, those you
send the cards to here could claim they were distressed by it and press
charges themselves against you.

It's the previous harassment of me that will do you in.

 >If you attempt to drag me into court in that armpit of a city you live in, I will
countersue for millions.

Do what you want, you won't win.

You can't go around bullying me or breaking the law. Do it and you'll
suffer extremely negative consequences. I just have to be reactive here
because there's no prior restraint in the US.

However, your threats against me do constitute harassment and I might be
able to get a criminal restraining order.

Are you really going to risk your freedom and your wealth for someone you
deem not even worth paying attention to?

Do you want ALL of your business assets CONFISCATED under RICO?

 >I will have a judgement against you and will hire private investigators to make sure
 > that I collect.

Do what you feel you have to but be prepared to lose.

 > You spend your spare time in law books trying desparately to figure out how the
 > law works. I have a full time very qualified attorney on retainer.

Pay any attorney enough money and they'll usually take your case. What are
they going to tell you, that you don't have one?

<snicker>

I've worked for attorneys. I know how the game works. One advantage I have
over you is that I know how to read attorneys, or tell the good ones from
the bad ones. Hint: it's not their hourly rate that matters unless you're
into handing over money.

 >They say > that a man that represents himselfl in a court of law has a FOOL for a
client.

The one who pays an attorney three hundred grand isn't exactly a genius either.

Of course, I can afford an attorney if I need one, and the cops work for free.

 > You better start getting that RETRACTION AND APOLOGY ready Parker. Your house
 > of cards is coming down.

You're an extortionist and a stalker and a harasser.

It's your prison sentence if you want to completely self-destruct.

 > If you don't like what the consequences are going to be for you when your
 > neigbors find out what you've been saying, I'd say that you should have though
 > about that BEFORE you said those horrible things, genius.

And what would my neighbors do again? Harass me and go to jail for you? If
they do, they can be dealt with as easily as you can.

That you are soliciting and inciting me in my back yard says you're a
stalker under PA law, even if you don't live here.

 >Take this ONLY opportunity to save yourself and retract and apologize immediately.

My response to any action you might carry out has already been planned for.
It involves having you locked up and sued for every dime you are worth.

Oh, and your newsgroup buddies would go along for the ride with you. I mean
your RGS ones, given that they've conspired with you too. You like getting
your FRIENDS in trouble? You must.

I cannot stop you from breaking the law, but I surely can punish you in the
event you do. I'd say you don't have the balls to carry out your threats,
but given that you're a true internet lunatic, anything is possible.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Newbie Introduction
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 05:44:27 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>
Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group

Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 > Hi guys,
 >
 >
 > I notice that most of this group is devoted to flaming Ray
 > Gordon. He does seem to be a psycho, and a nasty one at that.

You are posting from the University of California.

 > So I'd just like to make my personal contribution to this NG by
 > FLAMING THE LIVING SHIT out of Ray, because, frankly, I can't stand to
 > sit around and let Odious have all the fun. Hey, it's like when you
 > see a kid being bullied by everyone else in the school -- why
 > shouldn't you have a go, eh?

Because it could be detrimental to your well-being after you get sued,
possibly prosecuted, and reported to your university for conduct unbecoming
a student.

 > So does anyone have a link to a site which collects all of
 > Ray's most outrageous and and idiotic and obscene statements?
 >
 > Thanks in advance,

I'll have your identity rather shortly and file for a restraining order
against you if you want to continue this.

It was this post that convinced the new Author to find the old Ray FAQ and update it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Press Release Re. NGH Boycott (Ray is being a retard again)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 22:17:48 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>
Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group

Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis, alt.romance, alt.seduction.fast, alt.sports.gymnastics

References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4

 > >Your goal is to make me suicidal or to cause distress, given that
 > > according to YOUR OWN WORDS you either knew or should have
 > > known that would be a >reaction.
 >
 > Are you yet beginning to understand what I meant when I said how
 > unhealthy your interactions with the internet were, are, and
 > continue to be? You psychologically invest your self esteem into
 > usenet, provoke confrontations to the boiling point, and then
 > collapse into self-realized psychological disaster like regular
 > clockwork. You yourself are going to be the death of you yet. The
 > internet is very unhealthy for you, Mr. Parker.

You're blaming me for being STALKED?

The only reason you weren't sued into poverty when you totally
misrepresented me before was that you are three thousand miles away.

Those who are stalking me now are going to wind up with criminal charges and
civil actions against them. The "unhealthy" part comes from those who
refuse to intervene or enforce TOS policies or laws, and who let conflicts
like this fester.

To not expose this and to not show the extent to which these criminals will
escalate may be good for me, but it's bad for society.

 > What your inner self is attempting to achieve with self-styled
 > tags of achievement, for example: you won't find it here.

You haven't seen my record on best bets lately, have you? I happen to be
EXCELLENT at what I do, and the people you rubber-stamp as valid without
knowing are a little peeved at that.

You're ascribing psychological motivations where none exist; this is just
pure business terrorism, nothing more.

You are not qualified to diagnose people and that you attempt to says more
about delusional behavior than anything you attempt to project onto me.

You are best ignored.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

xxx

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disclaimer:
The following is reproduced under "Fair Use"
Do NOT distribute for commercial gain.

Ray's Threats - Part IV

This page contains Specific Threats from Ray, as posted to Usenet, along with

selected responses. If you are new to the alt.sports.gymnastics, alt.romance,

soc.singles, soc.men, soc.women, rec.sports.gambling or alt.seduction.fast
newsgroups, please read through this page.

Specific Threats from Ray, as posted to Usenet, along with selected responses.

PAGE 1
PAGE 2
PAGE 3
PAGE 4

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Subject: Congrats, you forced Ray to move....
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 21:47:48 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>
Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group

Newsgroups: alt.romance, alt.seduction.fast, alt.romance, alt.hypnosis,
alt.seduction.fast

And my mother made references to suicide if this continues.

Joke is over, folks.

We're all going to be filing criminal charges and turning everyone even REMOTELY
connected to this over to law enforcement. My mother is also in the process of
e-mailing HER ENTIRE FAMILY about this. They are in places no one could ever dream of
and have more resources than you could count.

I know where I can go that I won't be bothered, and I'm gonna have a LOT to say when
I get there, after I get done filing everything this weekend.

LEAVE MY FAMILY THE FUCK ALONE

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Special Note To Alex
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 13:17:56 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>
Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

The "baseball bat" remark was made by my mom in response to a gymnastics groupie who
harassed half of the national team, with help from several chat hosts and gymnastics
coaches and hackers.

He had constantly been referring to my mother as a "hag" and created an AOL screen
name called "Kill The Hag." Not only that, but he lost his last AOL account for
making a public death threat against me. This is all well documented and can easily
be proven. Further, this individual acted in conspiracy with several others who have
made death threats against me, and that evidence has also been well-preserved.

What my mother said in response to being told a veiled death threat was made against
her was that if he messed with her that she'd defend her honor with a baseball bat.
My mother was almost sixty years old at the time, had never spoken to this young man,
and he was making a threat against her life which he can STILL be prosecuted for
(maybe he will be if I file a civil case). When you see this sick individual's entire
history on display, you're going to be grovelling, apologizing, and retracting, but
all to no avail, thanks to your other defamation against me as well.

I have never threatened to inject ANYONE with HIV. Once again, you rely on the lies
of others and republish it as if it were the truth. When you see that the motive for
lying about me was for top gymnastics people to discredit my allegations that
Dominique Moceanu was abused, and again you bought into it.

Tonight, after I wake up, I'm going to put together a little libel complaint from my
template. Tomorrow, I'm going to look up the address of the federal court in New
York, then go to their website and download their rules. From there I'll file the
case, and subpoena Cox Communications in Georgia (where my primary attorney is
located, thank you!), whom I've already informed to preserve all evidence pending my
subpoena.

Once I file, you will have twenty days to explain why you treated lies as if they
were the truth. If you don't answer, you lose by default, and if you do answer, well
you'll probably just lose.

Oh, and set aside about $50,000 for a retainer for your defense unless you feel like
flying solo.

You are one FUCKED little man.

Here's a link to the entire thread: Google.com group search

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: RAY'S MESSAGE (Sorry boyz, but this is a flame).
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 19:40:21 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>
Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10

 > > Kindly cease and desist threatening me.
 > >
 > > One more time and a restraining order will be filed against you.
 >
 > Now you're threatening him. Kindly cease and desist, before I come over
 > there and cut both your bollocks off with a blunt knife, before ripping
 > your arm off and buggering you to death with it.

You just made the biggest mistake of your life.

The police ARE monitoring USENET now.

So help me GOD you are in trouble.

Here's a link to the entire thread: Google.com group search

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: How to take Ray wayyyyyy over the edge.
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 13:26:15 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>
Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group

Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis, alt.seduction.fast, alt.romance, alt.sports.gymnastics
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6

 > You don't like what we post so you threaten another. What a man. No wonder you
 > live with mom. If you don't like what we write, take us on. To quote you "you
 > got the balls".

I'm taking on the source of the problem, and I'm also posting the death threats I've
received over the years, which an unbiased source would include in the rebuttal.

 > From what we understand, you threaten this woman enough already. If what we
 > read is correct, you called child protective services on her and had them
investigate her.

Don't believe everything you read, and I haven't mentioned any names.

Your response isn't helping your cause, however.

You've been warned to cease and desist or some major charges are going to be pressed.
If you ignore the warning, that's your stupidity.

 >They found your charges without merit.

What charges?

 > You have go on endlessly about her being in a chat room and have accused her of
 > doing things that she has not done. You somehow think you can control this person.

Who? I'll reveal the source when I press my charges over this very clear conspiracy
to harass me online.

There's much more evidence of this than can be found on USENET.

 > You have threatened to go to her workplace and paste libelous flyers.

I have? Where?

Odd that given your threats to me, you'd mention something like that.

 > You have been repeatedly told that this threat she is aware is long gone and
 > that the other party involved has passed on.

Told on USENET? What threat? Several women online know of threats against me.

In each case, I have a right to explore the FULL details, plus estates can be sued,
and someone who acts with malice and suppresses knowledge of that nature can also be
prosecuted and sued.

Remember, YOU started this fight. I'm about to finish it.

 > Mr. Parker, it appears that she has the case against you.

I'll take my chances while I begin prosecuting the people online who should be
prosecuted. Most juries and judges see death threats as a negative. Plus I've gotten
harassment from 10-20 different people all over the net citing similar sources.

Conspiracy is not that difficult to prove when people are so open about it.

 > Given this most recent posting, we believe she should seek a restraining order
 > against you. The Committee has the resources to help this woman. We will seek
 > her out and offer assistance. We suspect that many others will join us in this
 > effort.

That's the primary element of conspiracy.

For someone claiming to be someone's friend, you aren't very helpful to them.

I'll be the one prosecuting.

 > You gone over the line one too many times. Repeatedly threatening and harassing
 > this poor woman will stop. You claim harassment but look at your record.

You call the internet a "record?"

By the way, your post is now evidence. I'm going straight to the FBI with everything
from now on.

I'll also begin filing medical board complaints against any "alternative
practitioners" who cross their boundaries.

 > We have warned you. The choices you have to make are very simple. They are not
 > complex and yet you do not seem to get them. YOu had a simple choice to make
 > but you have ignored it. You blame others for your stupid choices.

Projecting again?

 >
 > Again, this is alt.hypnosis, not alt.Ray.

You're the one turning it into alt.Ray.

 > A month ago, there was a posting about another internet troll that harassed
 > people. He ended up doing jail time for the things that you are doing. The
 > Committee knows some of the people who put this person in jail. We will add
 > this to our list of things to research beside an alt.net UDP.

Tortious interference with alt.net now? LOL

I'm going to be the one pressing charges, and filing medical complaints when
"healers" are involved.

If the women in question don't want to be prosecuted, they can simply tell their
Blutos to stop harassing me on their behalf. Since they are the source of the
attacks, they are now being treated as such and prosecuted as such.

The law is very very clearly on my side here. You just put it even more so there than
it already was.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: CEASE AND DESIST WARNING TO FORMHANDLE
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:45:47 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>
Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

This is a warning to Formhandle:

For the past year or so, you and several contributors to your website have been
promoting your forum by making disparaging comments about me and about rival
products. This is very illegal under the Lanham Act and under unfair-competition
common law.

You are hereby WARNED that if you do not cease and desist both direct disparagement
or encouraging disparagement by others that a $100 million lawsuit will be filed
against you, and that ANYONE who gives permission to have their writing archived on
your site and who has disparaged me themselves will be named in the lawsuit.

I am NOT joking.

We would like to point out that NO ACTION was ever taken as a result of this threat.
No suit, no nothing.
Well, almost nothing. Ray left a message on Formhandle's answering machine...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disclaimer:
The following is reproduced under "Fair Use"
Do NOT distribute for commercial gain.

Ray's Comments about 9/11

Information about "Ray Gordon", the fictitious internet pseudonym used by Gordon Roy
Parker.

This site contains information about Ray Gordon, a dangerous harasser who abuses

usenet newsgroups. Some recent email addresses were variations of The Seduction
Library coming from AOL accounts, Prior to that he was posting from variations of
ray__...@juno.com or outfo...@juno.com but it is likely that since he spammed so
many newsgroups using Juno headers, that he was finally banned from their system
somehow. Ray also seems to have been TOSsed from AOL as he no longer can post to

usenet from AOL. At the moment his email addresse are: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS"

r...@cybersheet.com and cave...@nni.com. The posting host he is currently using is
Altopia.net, or alt.net. In any case, it is well known that he uses several screen
names at the same time. If you are new to the alt.sports.gymnastics, alt.romance,
soc.singles, soc.men, soc.women, rec.sports.gambling or alt.seduction.fast

newsgroups, please read through these documents.

These are comments taken from the Google archive, made by Gordon Roy Parker, who uses
the fictitious pseudonym "Ray Gordon" following the terrorist attacks on the World
Trade Center, on September 11, 2001. Many of these comments were made before the
fires were out, and before any casualty figures were known. We of the Edtiorial Staff
believe we have a duty to preserve and present these posts to the public. They are
fair use, and all were nuked from the Google Archive by Mr. Parker, after several
days, because he did not want these words to be attributed to him. He claims it was
to prevent "copyright violations" but he hasn't removed all of his other posts from
the archive to demonstrate this. Readers may draw their own conclusions.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: rec.gambling.sports
Date: 12 Sep 2001 00:42:30 GMT
Subject: Re: A MASTERPIECE
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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 >Only you can use the deaths of thousands of innocents to progress your
 >petty, vain and superficial vendetta against all of your victims. Grow
 >up you lousy piece of shit.

These "innocents" are everyday people who are part of the EVERYONE
quoted in "everyone hates you, Ray."
They worked for companies who practice employment discrimination. I
don't consider the loss of their lives to be significant because their
bread-butterers didn't consider the loss of my career to be
significant.
I have been taunted over my living situation, and defamed online to
the point of a terrorist attack. Well, look at THEIR living situation if you
want to REALLY have a good laugh. I'm not the one living in a city covered by
SOOT.
The humanitarianism you ask me to show others is something others have
never shown me. They don't obey civil rights laws, so the loss of their own
civil rights has a poetic ring to it.
Those who don't want to see me laugh at this tragedy should never have
laughed at any of mine.

 >Keep a lid on your crap for at least one day out of respect for all of
 >those that died.

I have no respect for those who died. That's the point.
I consider mass employment discrimination to be an act of terrorism.
If I believed for ONE MOMENT that those left standing would change their
ways, I would of course change mine.
You are seeing a nasty form of political protest on my part which is
100 percent Constitutionally protected. It is supposed to make you vomit;
it was DESIGNED that way to illustrate what it is I see in others.
By reading my words, you get to stand in my shoes, and just for that
one moment........

 >Count your blessings that you were not among them you vile, cowardly
 >piece of stalking shit.

I'm no stalker, and those who would say it, or those who would BELIEVE
it (many "good people" who died today probably would have been swayed by the
lies), to me are subhuman.
I don't wear your shame. You have no ability to judge me, no moral
standing whatsoever.
I spent the past 15 years judging others only to be told that no one
cares about who does what wrong. Don't go getting up on that soapbox now
after I wore it out.

 >Only you CAN justify in your diseased mind, an attack on people in a
 >lousy little gambling forum,

Who am I "attacking?" I am expressing my lack of sympathy for the loss
of a bunch of self-centered, asshole New Yorkers who were determined to see
that I did not live OR work in what is left standing of their "fine city."
May they all rot in hell, every last one of them. Those who aren't
"them" would never have tolerated civil rights violations against me. Not my
fault if no one chose to stand up before this.
Anyone who TRULY were opposed to my conduct wouldn't ever have engaged
in the type of "terrorism" against me which they seem to hate when it's
directed to others.
Once again: no significant loss of life in those Towers. Americans
just can't seem to get the message that the way they behave pisses people off. It
provokes my words and Bin Laden's bombs. The only difference is that
I'm not breaking the law, while he is.
Anyone who wants to see my good side is free to help me build a fair
society, but most men who would do that fear that they might have an old, ugly,
or overweight woman for a secretary, or worse, a man.
No significant loss of life in those Towers.

 >at the expense of like TENS of THOUSANDS of innocent people.

I'm not the one who blew them up, am I? I just laugh at the poetic
justice of it all.
No one of any significance died in that blast. Just a bunch of asshole
New Yorkers who thought it was okay for me to lose my place to live there,
and who thought hiring eye candy was more important than justice.
  Stop falsely demonizing people if you don't like the consequences of
doing so. You, and others like you, have created the "monster."

 >Steve started this thread with a fantastic, humanitarian suggestion. Someoen
 >else followed it up with a similar helpful suggestion in this TIME OF NEED. And
 >you go and make a mockery of it just because you can.

I express my heartfelt view that I cannot have sympathy for those who
thought it was okay for me to starve to death. In my view they deserve any
tragedy brought upon them. I only use words; I don't break laws; employment
discriminators DO.
When EVERYONE agrees to be good, I'll sign up. You want to get the
ball rolling?

 >Everyone else is easing up today.

Which NYC firm is hiring me as a secretary again?
Sorry, not everyone.
No significant loss of life in those towers. Not a single one.

 >Thousands have died and thousands more have lost mothers, fathers,
 >brothers, sisters, sons and daughters, and more.

Well, people said EVERYONE hated me....so I guess those people hated
me too.
I lost a career to employment discrimination, and no one seemed to
care. In fact, the FIRST discrimination I experienced came right out of that
building.
I have no sympathy for corporate criminals who perish.

 >Likely dozens of police and firefighters have given up their lives to save these
 >people, in valliant efforts, all for naught.

Those men are well-compensated for the risks they take. They get to
lord over women how much POWER they have, and they get to do things we can't.
Since when is someone doing their job a cause for celebration? I
thought that's what we were paying them for.
I am not callous and unfeeling; I am just not a sucker. When everyone
plays nice, so will I, but it has to be all-or-nothing.
You want to get that ball rolling? I doubt it.

 >And you reduce it all to a snide remark in your juvenile flame wars.

Oh no, this is a deeply-held opinion. Want to schedule a press
conference?  I'd tell this to the world and explain exactly why.
As I said, without employment discrimination, there was a 50-50 chance
I'd have wound up working in what used to be that building.
Not only did these assholes break the law, they saved my life
(possibly), and in the process, cost themselves their own or those of the office whore
they hired in my place who died today instead of me. Look for a monument to
the "unknown office whore" as a war memorial. Collectible to follow.
Pretty damn good day at the office if you ask me, especially since I'm
not the one who hijacked the planes.

 >You should be embarassed, ashamed, and apologize to everyone
 >immediately.

Those emotions apply to those who discriminate in employment, not me.
As I said before, I have no sympathy for the loss of life among those
who saw no problem with the loss of my life.
As others have said here, EVERYONE hates me, right? Well, now it's
EVERYONE MINUS THIRTY THOUSAND.
Don't you realize that these dead people were already spoken for? They
are part of EVERYONE........if not, people need to learn not to speak for
EVERYONE.....
May those who died today rot in the hell they deserve.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the
jerk women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

Link to this message is here

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 14 Sep 2001 08:37:07 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Do Not Mourn Frat-Boy Trader Trash
Message-ID: <20010914043707.15058.00000295@mb-fj.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.seduction.fast:149850

It is so PATHETIC how we are making angels out of some of the worst corporate
criminals in America just because they suffered a little bombing.

We're talking the type of men that women love to be sexual parasites for, the
type who discriminate on the basis of looks, who sexually harass women
systematically, who are often racist, immoral, unethical, and frankly, whom the
world is a much better place without.

You would never have heard from this trader trash the type of empathy and
sympathy they are now expecting because THEIR lives were disrupted. In fact,
had it been YOU who perished instead of them, all they'd be worrying about is
how to trade profitably on your information.

Do not mourn the trader trash.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 14 Sep 2001 13:57:32 GMT
References: <30046609.01091...@posting.google.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Do Not Mourn Frat-Boy Trader Trash
Message-ID: <20010914095732.10722.00000235@mb-bk.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.seduction.fast:149864

 >> It is so PATHETIC how we are making angels out of some of the worst
 >>corporate criminals in America just because they suffered a little bombing.
 >
 >I've been lurking on this group for a while and always thought that
 >you were an idiot, and this sort of attitude isn't going to help you
 >lose your virginity ray. Do you have any idea what in the hell you
 >are talking about??? Cantor Fitzgerald is basicly gone. They did about
 >25% of the WHOLE FUCKING US BOND MARKET! That is going to FUCK UP
 >EVERYONE YOU ASS!!! That's right, mom and pop just got bent over a
 >barrel too. Oh wait, jackass ray doesn't know anything about how the
 >real world operates. He just sits in his make beleive world where guys
 >who live in their moms basement are chick magnets.

Ah, but wait.....I'm living where I live specifically BECAUSE of the
discrimination I cite. That YOU choose to turn a blind eye to that doesn't
change the reality.
It's funny how people on this newsgroup spend half their time saying externals
aren't relevant and the other half saying that because of MY externals, I
"can't get a woman." You guys are funny, that's for sure.
I happen to like where I live. Why should that be any concern of yours? Oh,
and unlike many in that blast, it's where I LIVE, not some hole in the ground.

 >> We're talking the type of men that women love to be sexual parasites for,
 >>the type who discriminate on the basis of looks, who sexually harass women
 >> systematically, who are often racist, immoral, unethical, and frankly, whom
 >>the world is a much better place without.
 >
 >Nice stereo-type. What about women traders? OHHH....in case you didn't
 >know, they started letting them trade too.

Why did Morgan Stanley get sued by a hundred female traders on Monday then?
Seems the government doesn't agree with your diversity assessment.

 >> You would never have heard from this trader trash the type of empathy and
 >> sympathy they are now expecting because THEIR lives were disrupted. In
 >>fact, had it been YOU who perished instead of them, all they'd be worrying about
 >>is how to trade profitably on your information.
 >
 >That's right. Most traders are as tough as a cheap steak, and they
 >wouldn't let a nuclear war stop them from trading. Good thing too.
 >"Ummm...sorry, the bank can't give you a loan because we can't unload
 >any of our holdings." They provide market liquidity. Without traders,
 >mom wouldn't be able to buy/sell her IBM stock. Without traders, banks
 >would get stuck in huge positions that they couldn't get out of.
 >Traders are the grease in the machine. They keep it moving, and they
 >have a super high stress job. So, cut them some slack. You've never
 >worked with traders. It shows because you have the typical, "I'm an
 >BAFC.

Actually, I HAVE worked on Wall Street, and was discriminated against by those
who are just like many of the "good people" who PERISHED.
Your own hostility towards me shows that you are a lot more like those I
criticize than what you present yourself to be to me.

 >I hate traders because they pull honeys."

Only golddigging whores and office trash which I also don't grieve for.

 >I write automated trading systems for a living. Guess what? My computers would still be
 >trading if the markets weren't down. Yes, It's horrible that so meny
 >people died, but it would be even worse if the financial industry got
 >flushed down the toliet along with it. Remember this you smeggin
 >jackass, we had an office on the 86th floor.

Not MY office, asshole.
Trust me, anyone takes action against me over this will severely undermine the
American cause, for the Islamic world would show it as a demonstration of your
true character.
Do you want that?
Why should *I* care about what happened to *YOU* if you do not care about what
happened to ME?
Psychologists would agree that those of you who have endured this tragedy are
extremely unstable, and if you can't control your hatred or your urges, then
you should seek out those who can help you do that.
That bombing has left no emotional scars on me, which would make me ideal
psychologically for working in the "war zone," now wouldn't it? You won't see
ME babbling like a pathetic whining little baby like that CEO on CNBC did.
As for whether these people would laugh at my tragedies or not, I already got
that answer long ago when they DID. Seems like these scum can't take what they
dish out, which is also very revealing.

 >> Do not mourn the trader trash.
 >
 >Pike off ray,
 >FunkerVogt

Now now, you'd have to KILL me to shut me up. Got the balls?
I don't have to KILL any of my corporate enemies, now do I? I should add,
however, that it might be tempting to SUE some of them for gender
discrimination.....which means that if you or anyone in that building fucks
with me, you're dealing with a potential litigant and a current litigant in two
other discrimination cases.
Look up the statutes on what type of legal protection I have right now before
you consider fucking with me.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 15 Sep 2001 19:53:11 GMT
References: <3BA34FAD...@idiom.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: "There was no significant loss of life in those towers. Not a one."
Message-ID: <20010915155311.18037.00000046@mb-fg.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.seduction.fast:150029

 >> The true sickos on the internet are people who are willing to let third
 >>parties manipulate them so easily.
 >
 >I notice that you haven't denied saying the things that were attributed
 >to you above.

So what if I said it or not? It's a free country.
Learn to respect others' freedoms.
Have a nice day!

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 01 Oct 2001 12:26:50 GMT
References: <20011001075446.08522.00002881@mb-md.aol.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: How Ray Feels About the WTC Tragedy - Postcard to be mailed to his neighbors
Message-ID: <20011001082650.29881.00001387@mb-cm.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.seduction.fast:152953

Oh, and since your intent is obviously to have me harassed, should someone say
KILL me as a result of your conduct, you and ANYONE connected to this can be
prosecuted for things like
"Criminally Negligent Homocide," etc.
You're already on very precarious legal ground, and the second I see even one
card in my area, all kinds of charges will be pressed.
Civil lawsuits are already being sped up.
There's a lot of evidence against many people which will get a much closer look
now that people see that offline harassment is a tactic people escalate to.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Seduction Library
Learn the secrets of seduction tens of thousands of readers already know!
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.romance
Date: 11 Sep 2001 18:23:37 GMT
References: <tpskpsg...@corp.supernews.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Twin Towers
Message-ID: <20010911142337.29643.00001108@mb-mg.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.romance:340320

 >Not one person that knows you would be surprised by those sentiments...
 >You have my FUCKING pity.
 >When YOU go...there will only need to be TWO pallbearers...
 >Trashcan only has two handles, right?
 >Chip

Look at YOUR attitude.....how dare you qualify yourself to judge me.
I didn't blow up those towers, and I didn't stuff them with WOMEN either......
The problem with me is that people already condemned me a long time ago and
somehow expect me to be nice. Some have even said they'd dance on my grave if
I ended it all.
Now they have 30,000+ other graves to worry about and STILL they don't get it.
Once again, why should I have sympathy for people who have no problem with my
starving to death? That's what those buildings were populated with: people who
only care about THEIR lives, THEIR jobs, and justice for THEM, not society.
Seems I'm not the only one who hates most Americans, am I? Maybe its our
collective ATTITUDE?
Just as my problems are not the responsibility of others, theirs are not my
responsibility. They need to move on, get over it, get a life (assuming theirs
wasn't blown to pieces this morning), and STOP WHINING.
I worked in that building. I even faxed a resume within the past year to a
firm in that building; had I been hired by that firm, I would have been working
there today.
Oops.
An office whore died in my place.
This attack happened in my HOMETOWN, a hometown I do not live in or work in
because of illegal behavior. I hope those who swiped my ability to live there
enjoy the message they got from GOD today..........
They can keep their city. I kind of like where I'm living now a whole lot
more.....

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.romance
Date: 11 Sep 2001 15:02:57 GMT
References: <QuvMPKAJ...@ragtag.demon.co.uk>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Twin Towers
Message-ID: <20010911110257.29643.00001063@mb-mg.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.romance:340305

 > K and I have just heard.
 >
 > Our deepest sympathies to you all.

When I was young, I used to go to the observation deck and view NYC. Amazing
sight.
When I was 21, I worked a temp assignment at on the 102nd Floor of what used to
be one of the buildings.
Some office whore died in my place it would seem.
Too bad.
Want to blame someone? America needs to look in the mirror. We think our shit
doesn't stink, or that other countries can't harm us. We expect other
countries to bow to our wishes on the presumption we are stronger than they
are.
Are we? Doesn't look that way right now.
Right now we are looking like Detroit about two-thirds of the way through
Robocop II.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.romance
Date: 11 Sep 2001 23:36:14 GMT
References: <3B9E4C17...@zzapp.org>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Twin Towers
Message-ID: <20010911193614.13998.00000974@mb-fp.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.romance:340364

 >> << Some office whore died in my place it would seem.
 >>
 >> Too bad. >>
 >>
 >> You are one sick fuck.
 >
 >This is very telling.

As I've said, society lost its credibility as my judge long ago.
Read "Miles's" other posts and you'll see a strange irony: who put the office
whores at their desks?

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.romance
Date: 11 Sep 2001 23:58:40 GMT
References: <Fivn7.44879$VX3.1...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Twin Towers
Message-ID: <20010911195840.13998.00000983@mb-fp.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.romance:340365

 >I'm really worried about a family friend who works in the Towers. Cell
 >phones are out and not much in the way of transportation in Manhattan for
 >her to get home so we can check on her. Her BF works a couple of blocks
 >away, too, so he could have gone down to find her...life is too precious for
 >this kind of twisted sickness. I happened to be watching the second tower
 >live as it was hit, then again live later as they both collapsed...haven't
 >been able to concentrate today. I keep thinking, "I was just there. It
 >can't be gone." The beauty of the towers was awesome on the ferry coming
 >from the Statue of Liberty.

And what do your precious friends do for a living?
There was no significant loss of life in those towers. Not a one.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.romance
Date: 11 Sep 2001 23:59:06 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: A bunch of asshole New Yorkers died...don't grieve.
Message-ID: <20010911195906.13998.00000984@mb-fp.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.romance:340366

No significant loss of life in those Towers....not a one.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.romance
Date: 12 Sep 2001 00:57:35 GMT
References: <ac9tptg882ib6otdopu2mtn0tm0rc88grj@4ax.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: A bunch of asshole New Yorkers died...don't grieve.
Message-ID: <20010911205735.13998.00001008@mb-fp.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.romance:340376

 >>No significant loss of life in those Towers....not a one.
 >
 >Hrm. I can't emphasize enough how stupid an employer would
 >be to hire you.

Wrong again. This is personal time; during business hours I'm perfectly
polite!
Your arguments fall apart when I uncover illegal behavior by others.

 >You are a sociopath, a nutcase, a liability
 >risk,

Wrong again, but now you're defaming me pretty badly.
The exercise of my first amendment rights proves only that I am exercising my
freedoms.
This time you might get a letter from an attorney, just so you know.

 >someone that they by all rights should not want to have
 >anything to do with,

I could say that about companies which sexually harass women. Oh wait, I did.
This society lost its rights long ago to judge me.

 >someone that any potential coworkers would
 >find universally and unacceptibly repugnant.

Not my concern. This isn't junior high-school. Co-workers have to learn that
this works both ways. If I find them repugnant, I keep the opinion to myself
and just do my job. That's what being a PROFESSIONAL is all about.
I love it when people try to deflect the issue away from civil-rights
violations. In fact, this man's comments about "lower-class BLACK culture"
would seem to have more workplace implications than anything I said.
I am no threat to anyone but criminals.

 >As I'm sure you
 >noticed in other threads, I repeat: you completely lack empathy;

For those who have taunted me openly.
Remember that use of the word "EVERYONE" by people? Those "others" people have
injected into these arguments are the same "others" who lived and worked in
that area.
We also have to assume that anyone who sits in judgment of me isn't a
civil-rights violator themselves, because then they'd just be looking for an
excuse to deflect attention from their own behavior.
As I've said before, it's dangerous to condemn someone in your mind, because
you can only do it once.

 >you are a sociopath,

No, you are medically unqualified. I'm just a pissed-off civil-rights activist
who has to laugh when those who had DIRECTLY discriminated against me saw
offices I might otherwise be working in reduced to rubble.
There was no significant loss of life in those towers.
Now you know what it's like to see your horrors mocked the way mine have been.
That's not mental illness, that's a political message, apparently delivered
quite brilliantly.
When everyone in this society wants to play nice ALL the time, I'll hop on
board. Until then, it's law of the jungle and my corner of the jungle wasn't
hit today. The corner I SHOULD HAVE been in was.

 >not just in the figurative sense of "anti-
 >social" but in the clinical sense of the word. Get mental care.

Get medical training or be careful about who you "diagnose."
We live in a free society. I choose a perfectly legal behavior which people
don't like. Doesn't make me mentally ill; it makes me politically aware.
As I've said before, I didn't start this fight. You're trying to condemn the
fruit of a long-ago poisoned tree.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.romance
Date: 12 Sep 2001 17:05:32 GMT
References: <ocMn7.5463$%u4.3...@www.newsranger.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Gordie admits knowing the WTC building layout
Message-ID: <20010912130532.29149.00000066@mb-ck.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.romance:340507

 >The evil masterminds behind yesterday's attacks knew how to maximize
 >casualties, conducted their operations with pin-point accuracy, and had enormous
support
 >and resources behind them. They conducted the operation with military efficiency.
 >
 >Gordon Roy is a fucking idiot. He's never off the internet long enough to do
 >anything. He just wants attention and is even jealous of the attention dead
 >people are getting. What a sorry piece of shit he is.

The EEOC filed a gender-discrimination lawsuit against the WTC's biggest
tenant.
A few less sexual harassers and discriminators on the planet isn't such a
horrible thing.
Neither is a few less office whores.....
Now if some ETHICAL people had died in that blast, it would be different.....

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.romance
Date: 13 Sep 2001 12:47:14 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Whining Financial Market Victims Make Me PUKE
Message-ID: <20010913084714.06685.00000241@mb-fg.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.romance:340599

After YEARS of hearing "get over it" directed at others, the smug insults from
those living lives of privilege, often profiting from corruption, it is amazing
to see these people expecting everyone on the planet to feel sorry for them.
Too bad they waited so long to have bleeding hearts.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.romance
Date: 15 Sep 2001 17:33:47 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: WTC Victim Parade = Trader Trash And Office Whores....
Message-ID: <20010915133347.12727.00000594@mb-mg.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.romance:340872

It's TELLING......one survivor after another....mostly white, mostly frat-boy
trader trash and office whores......

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.romance
Date: 16 Sep 2001 01:08:16 GMT
References: <3ba3e92c.454643@news-server>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: WTC Victim Parade = Trader Trash And Office Whores....
Message-ID: <20010915210816.18037.00000099@mb-fg.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.romance:340930

 >>It's TELLING......one survivor after another....mostly white, mostly
 >>frat-boy trader trash and office whores......
 >
 >And you insist that OTHER people make you look bad?

Now now, you need to learn the WHOLE history. People have been harassing me,
defaming me, AND threatening my life along with my family's lives for several
years now. If you choose to ignore that, that's your problem.
Love the way you call my advice "damaging," as if someone died and left you
information boss.
I'm already filling law enforcement in on a great deal of criminal activity
over the internet which would have gone ignored had I not recently been
threatened.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.romance
Date: 16 Sep 2001 02:09:08 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Weren't Traders SEXIST PIGS like a week ago?
Message-ID: <20010915220908.10812.00000570@mb-bk.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.romance:340932

??

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.romance
Date: 16 Sep 2001 22:45:12 GMT
References: <3BA52007...@earthlink.net>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Made a donation in Ray's name
Message-ID: <20010916184512.12776.00000744@mb-mg.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.romance:341070

 >Called the Red Cross and Salvation Army and donated in the name of
 >Gordon Roy Parker. Gave them the Lotus street address so they can send
 >him the thank you. Told how sorry he was for the WTC.
 >
 >No Ray, you cannot use it for a tax deduction. You have make a profit
 >first.

You like defaming people?
Unless you want to see alt.hypnosis flooded with past postings some of your
friends would rather forget they made, stay the fuck out of my business.......

Ray Gordon, Author
The Nice-Guy Graveyard: Where men go to bury their kindness and be the jerk
women love
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.romance
Date: 19 Sep 2001 13:34:11 GMT
References: <1909200109214...@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: For the record:
Message-ID: <20010919093411.13281.00000726@mb-fj.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.romance:341415

 >You have been asked in the past to refrain from sending email messages
 >to me, as they are undesired.
 >
 >You have been reported to AOL and to the United States Government for
 >breaking email spam laws.
 >
 >Do NOT respond to me via email ever again.

You're being warned of your little criminal conspiracy you want to start here.
Contact ANY law enforcement agency you want. You're going to see just how bad
your conduct is viewed by them.
You're a sniveling little weasel who just bit off more than he could chew.
Anyone thinking of assisting you in your blackmail/extortion campaign should
think long and hard.
Unless you name an attorney, I have a right to notify you to cease and desist.
Who's your attorney, James?

Ray Gordon, Author
The Seduction Library
Learn the secrets of seduction tens of thousands of readers already know!
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Newsgroups: alt.romance
Date: 19 Sep 2001 15:53:07 GMT
References: <20010919112601.28363.00002425@mb-md.aol.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Ray Gordon, Hypocritical Usenet Whore
Message-ID: <20010919115307.07877.00000971@mb-cm.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.romance:341428

 >We all know about Ray's crusade, right? Women use their sexuality to get
 >jobs, making them whores(a totally ridiculous, extremist view).
 >
 >What's more ridiculous is that Ray only posts about this 100 times a day so
 >that he can spam the newsgroup with his stupid little website. The more posts
 >and the more responses, the more free advertising he gets. Ray is a USENET
 >WHORE.
 >
 >Hypocrisy at its finest.

You are quite lame.
Oh, about that lawsuit: you want it in Philadelphia or your home county?

Ray Gordon, Author
The Seduction Library
Learn the secrets of seduction tens of thousands of readers already know!
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: amodern...@aol.com (A Modern Caveman)
Newsgroups: alt.support.divorce
Date: 23 Nov 2002 20:17:26 GMT
References: <0bRD9.19450$mr2.1...@news1.west.cox.net>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Oh my god, he did it, suicide
Message-ID: <20021123151726.08384.00000076@mb-bh.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.support.divorce:377458

 >>I see you very friendly with people who have told me to go kill myself.
 >>
 >>Save your phony grieving crap for someone who can't see through you.
 >
 >
 >I don't recall seeing ANY posts where anyone told you to kill yourself. Most
 >likely becuz those that resort into arguments with you, specifically, i just
 >skip over without reading. Don't ASSume that i've read something i haven't.

Would you like to be enlightened about the way some of your friends are
behaving on this group?

I'd be happy to organize a group of links and send them to you. Then of course
there's the "anonymous loose cannon" everyone looks the other way at even as it
SPAMS this group. That alone seems to be an act of acceptance.

You see, I almost ended my life because I got sick of seeing sexual harassment
used as a motive for a discrimination that blindsided my career. Then I found
people taunted me over it and almost celebrated it. I resolved then and there
that these people are not people of god, not worth grieving, and if they ever
had a tragedy that they should get to see their own attitudes (or the attitudes
of their friends) thrown right back in their faces.

I now remember why I file my employment discrimination cases. People simply
don't want to deal with this issue, and in the courts, they have to.

You see, to harm a man's career is similar to raping a woman (Warrenn Farrell)
or even an attempt on his life, on his ability to provide. That I choose to
fight for social justice so that people can earn money on merit rather than
sexuality is a worthy cause, and apparently a necessary one.

Not only do I not want praise for this, I am INSULTED by praise for "fighting
the good fight" because the idea is not to have to fight it. Being the one who
has to clean up society's messes is a thankless task, but at least I won't rot
in hell for all eternity like your dearly departed relatives and that dearly
departed piece of shit are doing now.

Remember, your buddies here said EVERYONE felt the same way about me. That
"everyone" by definition includes the three suicidal cowards who couldn't
handle a minor problem, while I endure major ones in order to make life more
fair for other people.

Everything you need to know about women. FREE!
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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From: amodern...@aol.com (A Modern Caveman)
Newsgroups: alt.support.divorce
Date: 23 Nov 2002 21:18:58 GMT
References: <KCRD9.19630$mr2.1...@news1.west.cox.net>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Oh my god, he did it, suicide
Message-ID: <20021123161858.08384.00000078@mb-bh.aol.com>
Xref: sn-us alt.support.divorce:377475

The entire text of this extremely long message can be read here

I can point out that the apathetic people will burn in hell, or that your
departed relatives are no loss as far as I'm concerned, and neither is that
drugged-up piece of shit that took his life.

If you think my words are mean, wait until God checks in with the opinion.
That fury is the only thing that will set people on the right path, and you can
be sure, God is quite furious. I'm just the means of expression.

I am doing God's work in the only manner in which it can be done in America,
2002.

Everything you need to know about women. FREE!
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

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X-Admin: ne...@aol.com
From: amodern...@aol.com (A Modern Caveman)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 01 Feb 2003 17:54:11 GMT
References: ...

Disclaimer:
The following is reproduced under "Fair Use"
Do NOT distribute for commercial gain.

Examples of Ray's Rants on USEnet

This page contains examples of posts made by Ray Gordon, (the fictitious internet
pseudonym of Gordon Roy Parker) to various usenet newsgroups.

New posts added!

Subject: Re: NEWS RELEASE: White Power Group Harasses Ray Gordon
From: winatb...@aol.com (Win At Betting)
Date: 28 May 2002 12:25:15 GMT
Message-ID: <20020528082515.19328.00000937@mb-bj.aol.com>
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

 >Due to his long term harassment and abuse someone created the site www.ray-
 >gordon.com to share information about Ray. Ray insists it is a hate site
 >(which it isn't) and that it is a white supremacy site (which it isn't either) and
 >of >course he has been unable to prove either of these claims.

Read the post "About Thom Geiger" if you want to get to know the NUT you're
dealing with who created that site.

The server host, in response to a threat of litigation, somehow allowed one of
the white-power groups hosted on the site to learn of the threat of litigation,
and they sent me THIS e-mail. The connection was established by this mail, and
represents an attempt to intimidating me out of suing the host, an attempt
which will ultimately fail.

Here is the threat. As I've said before, those who read these groups would be
wise not to get involved.

Return-Path: <dxd...@yahoo.com>
Received: from web21205.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.131.248] verified)
by admin.nni.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5)
with SMTP id 56414154 for cave...@nni.com; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 15:27:16 -0500
Message-ID: <2002011220271...@web21205.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [80.71.99.23] by web21205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 12 Jan
2002 12:27:14 PST
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:27:14 -0800 (PST)
From: dxdxdx axaxax <dxd...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Hello Shit Face
To: cave...@nni.com
Cc: r...@cybersheet.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

YOU THINK YOU CAN THREATEN THE WHITE CAUSE AND GET
AWAY WITH IT. THINK AGAIN. WE'RE ON TO YOU AND IF WE
FIND YOU, YOU BETTER UNDERGO PLASTIC SURGERY. HOPE FOR
YOUR SAKE THAT YOU CAN TAKE A HINT.

HTTP://OWK.ODINSRAGE.COM

ORDER OF WHITE KNIGHTS.
__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/

Ray Gordon, GENIUS
http://www.cybersheet.com

Note that Ray says he sent a "threat of litigation" in this post.
We replied to this post, thus:

Subject: NEWS RELEASE: Ray realizes his mistake, and complains...
From: The OFFICIAL Ray Gordon FAQ <ray...@email.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 09:22:57 -0500
Message-ID: <95fbad37606dc6d0918150b521cf6632@remailer.xganon.com>
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis, alt.seduction.fast, alt.romance, alt.support.divorce

] Subject: Re: NEWS RELEASE: White Power Group Harasses Ray Gordon
] From: winatb...@aol.com (Win At Betting)
] Date: 28 May 2002 12:25:15 GMT
] Message-ID: <20020528082515.19328.00000937@mb-bj.aol.com>
] Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
]
] > Due to his long term harassment and abuse someone created the
] > site www.ray-gordon.com to share information about Ray. Ray
] > insists it is a hate site (which it isn't) and that it is a
] > white supremacy site (which it isn't either) and of course he
] > has been unable to prove either of these claims.
]
] Read the post "About Thom Geiger" if you want to get to know the
] NUT you're dealing with who created that site.

We would like to state, FOR THE RECORD, once and for all, that
there is NO ONE by the name of "Thom Geiger" who is now, or ever
has been a member of the Editorial Staff of the OFFICIAL Ray
Gordon FAQ. (http://www.Ray-Gordon.com) Whoever Mr. Geiger may
be, he now has basis for legal action against "Ray" for accusing
him of being a part of something he is not, for the purposes of
damaging his reputation. This fits the LEGAL DEFINITION of LIBEL.

We state again, emphatically, NO ONE BY THE NAME OF THOM GEIGER
is a member of, or ever has been a member of The Editorial Staff
of the OFFICIAL Ray Gordon FAQ. (http://www.Ray-Gordon.com)

] The server host, in response to a threat of litigation, somehow
] allowed one of the white-power groups hosted on the site to learn
] of the threat of litigation, and they sent me THIS e-mail. The
] connection was established by this mail, and represents an attempt
] to intimidating me out of suing the host, an attempt which will
] ultimately fail.

See that "threat of litigation" in there?

"Represents an attempt to intimdating me" ?? We thought you had
some Secretarial Skills... This is a terrible example of how poor
your grammar skills are. In any case, Yoder has the right to do
with as he pleases, any e-mail anyone sends him. YOU took the time
and made the effort, to once again, commit the crime of BARRATRY,
by attempting to threaten Yoder. Yoder runs a WEB-HOST server. He
does not have ANY control over the content posted on his site,
other than to terminate the account of anyone who publishes anything
in contravention of his terms of service. Since we are publishing
DIRECT QUOTES, we cannot be construed to be doing anything which
is in contravention of his TOS. Therefore, he has no ability to
dictate our content. That is the extent of his association with us.

How is it any different that he spread that e-mail you so foolishly
sent him to people he knows, than it is for you to whine and send
the stuff to the cops that you claim you send? No one that we know
of has EVER, repeat EVER, been contacted by the police, on account
of anything that you have ever sent, and it should be obvious that
none of these so-called "threats" which you claim to have received
have ever been acted upon, since you're still here, spewing your
tired, worn-out cries for help. If someone really wanted to get you,
they could, and it would be relatively easy. We suggest watching
your back more carefully, because that mouth of yours is going to
someday catch up to you. You've said a lot of nasty things to folks
over the years, and someday, one of them just might decide that the
trouble they'd get into with the law, would outweigh any further
harrassment from you. That's no threat, its just an observation.

Deal with it.

] Here is the threat. As I've said before, those who read these
] groups would be wise not to get involved.

You can't just dismiss people who have the right to know about
your history, because you're afraid of their reactions. You wrote
it, and therefore you're accountable for it. Threatening statements
and intimidation seem to be your favorite tools, yet you complain
like a four-year-old when people use your own tactics against you.
We have the following published on The OFFICIAL Ray Gordon FAQ for
all to see. We also see that NO ONE has ever acted upon it.

] Return-Path: <dxd...@yahoo.com>
] Received: from web21205.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.131.248]
] verified) by admin.nni.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5)
] with SMTP id 56414154 for cave...@nni.com; Sat, 12
] Jan 2002 15:27:16 -0500
] Message-ID: <2002011220271...@web21205.mail.yahoo.com>
] Received: from [80.71.99.23] by web21205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
] Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:27:14 PST
] Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:27:14 -0800 (PST)
] From: dxdxdx axaxax <dxd...@yahoo.com>
] Subject: Hello Shit Face
] To: cave...@nni.com
] Cc: r...@cybersheet.com
] MIME-Version: 1.0
] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

JANUARY 12? And no one has taken you out yet? Some threat...
If, (mind you, IF) someone were serious, you wouldn't have been
able to post after January 14th at the latest. How many posts
have you made since January 14, Ray? 1000? 1500?

You're a pathetic person if you think that anyone feels that strongly
about you. Don't make the mistake of angering the wrong people, and
you won't have to worry about anyone coming after you. Its that simple.

Freedom of Speech is WORTHLESS without Social Responsibility!

The OFFICIAL Ray Gordon FAQ: http://www.Ray-Gordon.com

In our rebuttal, we made a point-by-point refutation and rebuttal to the comments
that Ray made concerning his delusional fantasy. Here is his reply. Look carefully at
the snips, and also at the deflections, spins, and change-of-story from Ray. This is
classic schizoid personality-disorder behavior, failing to take responsibility for
one's own actions.

Here is Ray's reply. We're going to intersperse our comments into this post, and this
will be posted to usenet, in its entirety. For the record:

Subject: Re: NEWS RELEASE: Ray's critics realizes their mistakes, and WHINE
From: winatb...@aol.com (Win At Betting)
Date: 28 May 2002 15:57:48 GMT
Message-ID: <20020528115748.19328.00000955@mb-bj.aol.com>
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

 >We would like to state, FOR THE RECORD, once and for all, that
 >there is NO ONE by the name of "Thom Geiger" who is now, or ever
 >has been a member of the Editorial Staff of the OFFICIAL Ray
 >Gordon FAQ. (http://www.Ray-Gordon.com) Whoever Mr. Geiger may
 >be, he now has basis for legal action against "Ray" for accusing
 >him of being a part of something he is not, for the purposes of
 >damaging his reputation. This fits the LEGAL DEFINITION of LIBEL.

And registering that ILLEGAL domain is the LEGAL DEFINITION of "invasion of
privacy" and "right to publicity" infringement.

HOW is it "illegal" ??? Cite the law, all the relevant court cases, and PROVE it is
illegal. You do this, to our satisfaction, where we can verify it with an attorney,
and we'll take the site down.

Creator or not, he's the billing contact. Hardly unreasonable assumption.
Mr. Geiger is welcome to come to the courts here if he wants to have it out.

How is it illegal to use the word, "OFFICIAL" in any context? Cite the law.

 >We state again, emphatically, NO ONE BY THE NAME OF THOM GEIGER
 >is a member of, or ever has been a member of The Editorial Staff
 >of the OFFICIAL Ray Gordon FAQ. (http://www.Ray-Gordon.com)

No, but he's the billing contact for an illegal use of the term OFFICIAL in
conjunction with that site.

Come on Thom, come on down and sue me. We'll have a blast.

Ray is addressing a comment to someone that we do not know, and in
fact, is not responsible for either the OFFICIAL Ray Gordon FAQ, or
any posts to usenet on its behalf. Who are you talking to Ray?

 >] The server host, in response to a threat of litigation, somehow
 >] allowed one of the white-power groups hosted on the site to learn
 >] of the threat of litigation, and they sent me THIS e-mail. The
 >] connection was established by this mail, and represents an attempt
 >] to intimidating me out of suing the host, an attempt which will
 >] ultimately fail.
 >
 >"Represents an attempt to intimdating me" ?? We thought you had
 >some Secretarial Skills... This is a terrible example of how poor
 >your grammar skills are. In any case, Yoder has the right to do
 >with as he pleases, any e-mail anyone sends him.

And I have the right to sue for damages if I wind up threatened because of what
he does. Let Mr. Bertolino come on down and make a federal case out of it if
he'd like to.

He can introduce the world to all the friends from his server.

Once again, Ray clearly demonstrates how he is delusional. To think that any person
who runs a webserver, is responsible in any way for the content on any website
residing on that server is ludicrous. That would mean that EVERY single ISP in the
world could be held liable for every website. Perhaps we should do  some research to
see what the courts have said about this. Obviously, Ray hasn't.

 >YOU took the time
 >and made the effort, to once again, commit the crime of BARRATRY,
 >by attempting to threaten Yoder.

Oh? Actually, I gave him a cease-and-desist warning.

Let him come down and sue me if he takes issue with my showing what happened
when I threatened him with a lawsuit as is my right.

 >Yoder runs a WEB-HOST server. He
 >does not have ANY control over the content posted on his site,
 >other than to terminate the account of anyone who publishes anything
 >in contravention of his terms of service. Since we are publishing
 >DIRECT QUOTES, we cannot be construed to be doing anything which
 >is in contravention of his TOS.

Since you claim it's MY WRITING, I have the right to tell a webmaster to remove
it under the DMCA.

Yoder has shown he's not impartial, and so has Geiger. Let them come down here
and sue me if they want to let a judge decide everything.
Now it is they who can either put up or shut up and let the world see them as
having shut up.

We have asked an attorney about this interpretation of the Digital Millennium
Copyright Act, and we were told that quoting someone for informational purposes is
not considered a violation of any kind. Let Ray prove otherwise. Unless and until he
does, this site stays as a demonstration of our right to FREE SPEECH.

 >Therefore, he has no ability to
 >dictate our content.

The DMCA says he has to remove it if it's in fact my writing as is claimed.
There's also the issue of the infringement by the use of the word OFFICIAL,
which creates legal actions all its own..

Like I said, let them come on down. I have a number of questions for both of
them.

We stated that educational, opinion, editorial, and informational use is not
actionable under the DMCA, and the use of the word "OFFICIAL" is in no way illegal,
under ANY circumstances. If this is the case, let Ray cite chapter and verse, along
with any and all court decisions proving otherwise. Its easy to make a claim, but in
this arena, claims  such as this have to be PROVEN. Put up or SHUT UP...

 >That is the extent of his association with us.

It was, until I got the threatening e-mail.

Which you brought on yourself, by THREATENING Yoder with legal action unless he
capitulated to your illegal and unreasonable demands. That, sir, is BARRATRY. He has
every right to publish that e-mail, distribute it to anyone he wants, or use it in
any way he sees fit. It becomes HIS PROPERTY when you hit the "send" button. Any spin
you put on it, by claiming that it was  only a "cease-and-desist" means that you lied
when you said that you threatened litigation, or you lied when you said it was only a
cease-and-desist. Now,  we want to know, which lie was it that you want everyone to
believe?

 >How is it any different that he spread that e-mail you so foolishly
 >sent him to people he knows, than it is for you to whine and send
 >the stuff to the cops that you claim you send?

I was threatened as a result of his action.
Then of course there was that ditty on the OWK website which said "an attack
against our host, will be treated as an attack against the Order."
The OWK got in my business in a way that I say makes it relevant.
Come on down and sue me and we can let a judge decide.

Who should "come on down and sue" you? We have no intention of threatening any legal
action. If and when we decide to pursue that course, it will take place without any
warning, and with every "I" dotted, and every "T" crossed.

You won't know what hit you.

 >No one that we know
 >of has EVER, repeat EVER, been contacted by the police, on account
 >of anything that you have ever sent,

Winterpuke was.

Not true. We contacted him via e-mail, and attempted to confirm this. What he told us
was, someone from the Dean of Students office contacted him to inquire about what
took place. He showed them a copy of what he sent, and a copy of what you sent, and
they advised him to steer clear of you, because of the potential problems you could
cause by frivolous action. The simple facts  of the matter are, even people who read
your posts out of context still think you're deranged. Go ahead, try to contact
UPenn's Dean of Students' office. Ask them about it. They won't and can't tell you
anything, because you're a litigant against the University. They happen to be bound
by the case you filed. We dare you to foul up your own case, by attempting to contact
them... Painted  yourself into a corner here, didn't you?

 >and it should be obvious that
 >none of these so-called "threats" which you claim to have recieved
 >have ever been acted upon, since you're still here, spewing your
 >tired, worn-out cries for help.

Gee by that standard you refute your own claims against me. The threats are
sufficient to take action based upon, as they constitute a tortious
interference with my enjoyment of life, and harm to my business.

This is pure, unadulterated cow cookies.

 >If someone really wanted to get you,
 >they could, and it would be relatively easy.

That could be said about anyone.

 >We suggest watching
 >your back more carefully, because that mouth of yours is going to
 >someday catch up to you.

Wow, another THREAT!!!

I suggest you watch who you threaten.
Since you claim to be associated with that site, I might just be able to tie
the threatening remark to some others associated with it.

Ya never know.

No, Ray... Not a threat. In fact, you yourself have used these very words to others,
and then stated that they were not threats. We looked up the exact wording in the
Google archives, just to prove to you, and everyone else how paranoid you are. How is
it not a threat when YOU use those exact words, but it is a threat when someone else
uses the same words?

You can't have it both ways...

 >You've said a lot of nasty things to folks
 >over the years, and someday, one of them just might decide that the
 >trouble they'd get into with the law, would outweigh any further
 >harrassment from you.

But the trouble they'd be getting others into would never outweigh
it.....besides, you're just running your MOUTH. It's what you do.
I start revealing Geiger's online history and boy you get pissed. Get
used to it.

We're hardly "pissed"... We are actually amused that you are attempting to apply your
psychotic double-standard to everyone else, while failing to note that we used YOUR
OWN words. Once again, moron, we do not know who  Thom Geiger is, nor do we care.

When the rebuttal website goes up several other people are going to have
their histories revealed too.

Seems some people don't like being refuted. Too damn bad.

Is this the same "Rebuttal Website" that you've been promising to post for what, six
months now? We are not going to hold our breath. If in fact, you do decide to publish
a "rebuttal site" and it gets your scabby hind-end sued over the material you
publish, can we laugh at you? Never mind giving us any permission, we'll be rolling
in the aisles.

 >That's no threat, its just an observation.
 >
 >Deal with it.

Actually it's a threatening remark and one which is not very wise on your part.

You can't have it both ways, Ray... They're YOUR OWN WORDS. So, it's not really an
observation, its a QUOTE! How can it be a threat, when YOU yourself have said exactly
the same thing? If it is a threat, then you are guilty of making threats as well and
can be held liable for the same punishments you think we could. Idiot.

 >
 >] Here is the threat. As I've said before, those who read these
 >] groups would be wise not to get involved.
 >
 >You can't just dismiss people who have the right to know about
 >your history, because you're afraid of their reactions.

The "history" as you cite isn't accurate. If they buy into it, they become
liable for legal action.

People should be careful not to believe everything they read on the internet.

How are fully attributed, direct quotes of your posts inaccurate? Were you being
"inaccurate" when you originally made these posts? Are you claiming that it was
someone else who made them? Are you claiming that you were not quoted accurately?

How is a full quote, presented in context, directly stating what you, yourself said,
in any way, inaccurate? Explain this...

 >You wrote it, and therefore you're accountable for it. Threatening
 >statements and intimidation seem to be your favorite tools, yet you
 >complain like a four-year-old when people use your own tactics against
 >you.

I'm just defending my rights under the law.

That's not the same as a white-power group making e-mail threats to me because
I threatened their host with litigation.

Wait until the list of other names who have THEIR histories posted online for
everyone to see start reacting. I'm sure their noise will get louder and
louder, but there's not much they can do about it, now is there?

Maybe I should post transcripts of my conversations with various people in a
bible-belt backwater state about a certain NUT that lives there....seems he's
got quite a reputationi preceding him.

We can't wait to see what you publish. We will link to it, from the OFFICIAL Ray
Gordon FAQ, in a prominent place. We also will report on whatever suits come from
this, because we know full well that you don't have the stones to deal with the
outcome of you libelling everyone who's ever disagreed with you, so we won't hold our
breath waiting for these "transcripts"... You won't open yourself up for that kind of
damages. Not that you have anything worth taking anyway. Go ahead, do your best.
Publish whatever you like...

Tom Geiger has weighed in on this issue. Here is his rebuttal post from usenet to
Ray's reply to us:

Subject: About Thom Geiger
From: tomeg...@aol.com (TomEGeiger)
Date: 31 May 2002 05:37:10 GMT
Message-ID: <20020531013710.06816.00002351@mb-mq.aol.com>
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Why do you post anonymously, Mr. Parker? If you really want to meet me in court, then
why post as dev-null? Are you a coward? How many times have you accused someone else
of being a coward for posting anonymously? I'm here under my real name. Who are you?

I'm going to say this one last time, for the record. I have no connection with the
Ray-Gordon web site, other than I own the domain name. You have lied about me and
libeled me for months on this matter, and it's near time to end this with legal
action, if necessary. I have been told you've bragged on usenet that you are
judgement proof. Shall we test that claim? I feel there is more to your fear of
posting your libel through your AOL or alt.net accounts than merely being an
agoraphobic coward.

I own 20+ domain names, and have leased, loaned or donated many of them. None of that
incurs liability, as you will discover. Indemnification is standard in domain
lease/loan agreements. We can settle this in court, or on the internet. If you want
to meet me in court, simply stop posting about me from an anonymous account. I can
guarantee this is the quickest way for the two of us to get to court. It's time to
step up and be a man, Mr. Parker. Or your best impression of one.

Tom Geiger

We would like to publicly thank Mr. Geiger for his gracious donation of the
www.Ray-Gordon.com domain name, and apologize for the harassment, libel, and
aggravation that he has suffered at the hands of Gordon Parker as a result of this.
We know he is not connected in any other way with the content of this site, he knows
it, and so does everyone else who's visited here, or read usenet. There is only one
person who does not know it, and that's Ray.

This follows the pattern of Ray's attack method, and is indeed a perfect example of
it. Ray doesn't possess the courage to go after the people he says are the problem,
so he goes after everyone else in the hope that if enough people are harassed, then
he can force the sources of information, assistance, and cooperation to dry up.  Ray
doesn't understand, or is incapable of comprehending that his tactics are illegal,
and actionable, but he persists anyway. Look at the pattern: He threatened us,
contacted 0catch, and had our original server-space cancelled. We went to Odin's
Rage, he threatened Yoder in the attempt to get us taken off line again, and then
started insinuating that we are a "White Power" group, we're a "Hate site" and Yoder
published his e-mail. That brought on more trouble than Ray is willing to deal with.
In the past, Ray has done the same thing, as is outlined in other sections of this
site, most notably, threatening the children and families of those he wanted to get.
It's all there, in its entirety, published for posterity on this, and other websites.

Subject: Re: Women's "emotional memory" (do they have any?)
From: winatb...@aol.com (Win At Betting)
Date: 11 Apr 2002 01:40:07 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.romance

 >> Your own fault, as you had misconceptions about women all these years that
 >> helped cause the overall problem you now complain about.
 >>
 >>
 >> Ray Gordon, GENIUS
 >
 >
 > I agree. Hang up the idea of finding yourself a suitable mate and
 > consider adopting a pet. May I suggest a dog? Treat them with love and
 > respect... and they will always worship the ground you walk on and be
 > there at your beckon call.

Submissive women make the best pets.

Ray Gordon, GENIUS

Subject: Ray's Critics PAY FOR INFO!!
Date: 19 Mar 2002 12:05:32 -0000
From: dev-...@no-id.com
Reply-To: mail2news-20020319-alt.seduction.fast@anon.lcs.mit.edu
Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast, alt.romance, alt.hypnosis, alt.support.divorce

Don't go thinking I'm Ray Gordon of the Seduction Library and Secrets of Erotic
Hypnosis (that's the guy from www.cybersheet.com) but he asked me to let some people
in on a little secret: there is SERIOUS MONEY behind this little campaign against
him. Just how powerful could his writing be if people are forking over money to those
who would harass him? Legally that raises the stakes in ways I wonder if those people
imagine.

Ray wants you all to know he'll be reaching out and touching a number of people with
RICO actions and prosecutions, and something about someone impersonating an attorney
for the purpose of harassing him. Seems he left for a while so he could notify a
west-coast BAR ASSOCIATION about that little episode, and told me now that the
evidence is in the right hands that the cat is out of the bag. Seems the firm
involved in this wasn't too pleased to learn what its -- oh, what is the term, OFFICE
WHORE -- had her name attached to...how pathetic is a woman that she has to invent or
have a man invent for her a professional career to give her credibility in refuting
claims about her real job?

Oh, he also said that anyone who has an attack of conscience about all of this might
get amnesty if they act this week and this week only, but they better be prepared to
come clean. He also said this is being treated as an organized-crime case.

I'd say to ask him for more info, but he's not talking. You know how that is. He said
the feds and the CA state police and a few other alphabet-soup types were gearing up
for him along with some media types and that's why he's not posting, not because he
was "swatted."

Oh yeah, one other thing. Seems there's this lunatic from the South who has a
newsreader where the posts rather uniquely indent only ONE space, and if you go
through USENET the past five years this will lead you to some rather horrible posts
to and about him.

Ray did feed me this log below with the name of the informant on the payoloa stuff
changed to protect the innocent, and said something about setting up those who pay
with bad info or maybe he already did that I forget.

You just can't trust those internet allies, can you? Might make you wonder who ELSE
is getting scared or changing sides and if it might be time for YOU to do the same.
Well whatever I'm glad I'm not involved. Doesn't look like it's going to be much fun
for them.

I asked Ray if he thought the posting might stir up some flames, but he said if
anything serious were to happen to him too many people would go down real fast and he
knows his critics aren't into destroying their friends along with themselves, and he
then said something about how this message would lead to other people snitching
because they can see the trouble brewing. I trust him so that's why I'm here to help out.

Don't expect to see Ray posting here much, and frankly I don't blame him. He seems to
be doing much better since he stopped.

Here's the log. I guess anyone with a brain could have figured out that this was too
professional of an operation to be a simple flamewar. Pretty sad if you ask me.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [2:57 AM]: ask xxxxxxxxxx i dont know
Win At Betting [2:57 AM]: Are you still on good terms with her?
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:00 AM]: met her once
Win At Betting [3:00 AM]: How did the subject of me come up?
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:00 AM]: thats it
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:01 AM]: are you going to let me talk
Win At Betting [3:01 AM]: Sure
Win At Betting [3:01 AM]: I'd like to know who is paying people on the internet for
info about me.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:02 AM]: Shut up RAY ITS MY TURN TO SPEAK
Win At Betting [3:03 AM]: Got it.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:03 AM]: ok so then i was in the big room
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:04 AM]: she asked me what was up
Win At Betting [3:04 AM]: Scouting you
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:05 AM]: so i said i had had this convo with this guy who claims to
be a girl
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:05 AM]: she said really so i told her waht you were saying
Win At Betting [3:05 AM]: Okay
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:06 AM]: she said wait can i IM you
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:06 AM]: i said sure so i told her what you read on that site
Win At Betting [3:06 AM]: okay and how did money come up?
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:07 AM]: and she was OMFG
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:07 AM]: Ray
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:07 AM]: i was like who is RAy
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:08 AM]: she said you dont know who RAY is
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:08 AM]: i said no i dont
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:09 AM]: so she started telling me about you your a outlaw and your
crazy and your a legend aroung here
Win At Betting [3:09 AM]: Nice speech.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:10 AM]: and then she said i need to post this and she talked about
web sites
Win At Betting [3:10 AM]: Yes there are a few hate websites about me out there.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:10 AM]: i told her dont say or do anything
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:10 AM]: she said she wouldent
Win At Betting [3:11 AM]: But then she did.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:11 AM]: then she said theres people who would pay for this info i
said why hes jus a guy
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:12 AM]: and she said OMFG you talk to RAY
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [3:12 AM]: OMFG RAY is back

--
This message has been sent via an anonymous mail relay at www.no-id.com.

Subject: Newsgroup Mafia FAQ
Date: 19 Mar 2002 12:51:27 -0000
From: dev-...@no-id.com
Reply-To: mail2news-20020319-alt.seduction.fast@anon.lcs.mit.edu
Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast, alt.romance, alt.hypnosis, alt.support.divorce

Newsgroup Mafia FAQ

The purpose of this FAQ is to educate the public about a practice on the internet
engaged in by various "newsgroup mafia" factions. Internet newsgroups are a key
gateway to e-commerce, and the product or service referrals which can come from a
newsgroup's "word of mouth" have become large enough in dollar amount to justify
criminal behavior in an attempt to monopolize this revenue.

The anti-spam nature of the internet is such that spam which is disguised as
friendly, helpful advice is considered much more strongly than that of overt
advertising. Companies who participate in newsgroup-mafia behavior gain revenue from
their activities which is then used to further fund its illegal operations.

The following Q&A will outline exactly how the practice works.

1. What is a "Newsgroup Mafia?"

A newsgroup mafia is a collection of individuals with a common purpose: to control
the flow of information in a newsgroup, gaining popularity for the leader(s) of the
newsgroup mafia, and then to direct business to the leaders. The other main purpose
of a newsgroup mafia is to cover up an expose of illegal behavior or other corruption
involving key individuals or businesses which participate in or relate to the group.

2. What is the purpose of a Newsgroup Mafia?

As stated above, the end purpose is to generate revenue for the leader(s) of the
mafia in the form of word-of-mouth referrals. To accomplish this, the leaders'
business interests are promoted and spoken favorably of by the mafia rank-and-file,
while rival businesses to that of the leaders are attacked or otherwise disrupted in
any way that helps the leader businesses.

3. How can I tell if a newsgroup has been infested by a mafia?

Usually you will find extensive flamewars on the group, usually relating to a key
product or idea in the group, and the products which either support or oppose that
idea. Most telling will be how the flamers or ostensibly neutral parties put
themselves in positions of pseudo-authority, "welcoming" newcomers to the group under
the pretext of being sociable, when in fact their purpose is to scout the newcomer to
see which side s/he is on, and to attempt to sway them to the mafia's side and
against the side of its rivals.

4. How does a newsgroup mafia operate?

The mafia will go to great lengths to establish its ideas and products as dominant,
while the mafia members will insist that they are not connected to or on the payroll
of the leader businesses, and that they are acting out of altruism, a desire to help
others with what they have learned, and to provide information to interested
newcomers. The internet makes it impossible to verify that these people are truly
independent.

5. But wait! I know my internet friends wouldn't do this!

If they are paid to become your internet friend, they most definitely would. A simple
referral can net a newsgroup mafia member a commission as high as 20-30 percent of
each sale, which can add up to a nice living over time. Some newsgroup mafiosi make
very good livings off of their work. A strong newsgroup mafia can take a previously
unknown product, service, business, or individual and create the necessary "buzz" for
them to break through to the public consciousness, at which point their
name-recognition and revenue begin to escalate to the point where they no longer need
the mafia.

6. How can I trust word-of-mouth about anything online if all of this is true?

That's just it: you can't. Information is not like a manufactured product, which can
be tested empircally. Judgements about the value of information are subjective, and
public opinion is easy to manipulate with lies and distortions. What appears to be a
benign recommendation for a product or service is often part of a carefully crafted
strategy to win you over. Usually, mafia members will employ several different
tactics to secure business: one member will hard-sell the product and create a buzz
and maybe even some suspicion that they are shills, but that is just a distraction so
the soft-sellers who appear objective can then sprinkle their commentary with a mild
recommendation to convince the more skeptical, while fake newbies then appear on the
scene for the purpose of being "won over" and then telling the group that it's
logical to buy the mafia product or service.

7. How can I tell if I'm being manipulated?

A newsgroup mafia will do everything within its power to engender good feelings about
its leaders and products or services, and bad feelings about its rivals. An alarm
bell should go off anytime you find yourself feeling good about spending your money
on someone or something on the basis of what you hear on the internet about it;
chances are there is money behind that good feeling. Also be wary of people who try
to turn you against others, because you're just a pawn in their game. Be especially
concerned if you see people breaking laws against others while trying to act nice to
you. They do this to scare you in a way by implying that if you don't play along they
might do the same thing to you, and they will.

8. How should I buy products and services on the internet if I can't trust anyone?

I know this is difficult, but you're going to have to learn to THINK FOR YOURSELF.
Even your trusted friends online rarely are; most are just paid to shill for the
products which "happen" to be mentioned in the course of your discussions. Many of
the worst shills will go out of their way to provide "free" websites with hidden
advertising. Look at the OUTCOME of these sites and recommendations and ask yourself
if anyone is profiting either directly or indirectly. We like to think that people
act out of the goodness of their hearts, but rarely is this the case.

Keep in mind that every time you fall for these tricks, you are funding
organized-crime. If these tactics didn't work, businesses wouldn't engage in them,
and if you suspect any businesses of doing this, just don't give them your money.
Instead, do your own research and draw your own conclusions while keeping a watchful
eye for the presence of a newsgroup mafia. Until you can peek into everyone's
computers, you'll never know who is in bed with who.

Knowledge is power.

--
This message has been sent via an anonymous mail relay at www.no-id.com.

Subject: Re: Reply to Ray's Critics PAY FOR INFO and Newsgroup Mafia FAQ
Date: 19 Mar 2002 14:34:50 GMT From:
emeralde...@aol.com (EmeraldEyesHypno)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
References: 1

Now now, you know that there's more to the story than this:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=5cfc05dc.0112280056.22e92650%40postin
g.google.com&output=gplain

WORKING LINK

(a little threat against Ray by someone who then recommends others in the field. Duh!!)

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=369F909D.1E4EE72E%40pacbell.net&outpu
t=gplain

WORKING LINK

(what's this? IDENTITY THEFT being threatened? my god, it was before 9/11 so what's
the excuse here? psst: the computer crimes unit of the San Francisco Atty General's
office can be reached at 415-551-9523).

Seems that Ray's critics are looking for an easy way to discredit someone they're
pretty obviously obsessed with. These two posts are just the tip of the iceberg.

I'm sure a few people are easily manipulated by propoganda but most people can see
right through it.

Let's also not forget that the people who supposedly hate Ray's views about women
have no problem with covert hypnosis as a seduction tool even if it's RAPE!

I hear Ray's got a lot more where this stuff came from, and I also hear some key
people are getting SCARED and running their mouths more than some other people would
like.

I wonder, however, I REALLY REALLY WONDER, who is the woman he's talking about who's
a secretary that tried to pretend to be an attorney? Don't people get in major
trouble for that sort of thing?

If people are being paid to trash him, even if they aren't connected to the site, the
site may be quoting them without realizing it, and the motive likely has nothing to
do with the common good even if they'd like to have you believe that.

Smart people see through propaganda. Are you smart?

Subject: How'd it feel to learn she was a CHEAP WHORE, you stupid men?
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 02:10:18 -0500
From: "Ray Gordon" <cave...@nni.com>
Organization: www.cybersheet.com
Newsgroups: alt.support.divorce

That's right, she showed not only you but THE WORLD, what a pathetic LOSER you were
for thinking she was a lady.

She showed YOUR CHILDREN.

YOUR OWN CHILDREN GOT TO SEE A CHEAP WHORE MAKE A FOOL OUT OF YOU.

Your kids will be FUCKED UP FOR LIFE BECAUSE YOU WERE NOT MAN ENOUGH TO GET A REAL WOMAN.

You're not a man, you're a JOKE. Your KIDS know it!

The courts know it!

The WORLD knows it!

THE WOMAN YOU LOVED, THE WOMAN YOU MARRIED, NOTHING BUT A CHEAP WHORE.

And you were taken by one.

Have fun with your loserfest, BOYS. Real men don't have to offer marriage to women to
get laid.

Pathetic idiots.

Subject: Did someone say "OFFICE WHORE?" Newsweek Did!!
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 04:04:54 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>

Organization: cybersheet.com
Newsgroups: alt.romance, alt.seduction.fast, misc.invest.stocks, alt.support.divorce,
------------...

Disclaimer:
The following is reproduced under "Fair Use"
Do NOT distribute for commercial gain.

Group Specific Posts
Information about "Ray Gordon", an alias for Gordon Roy Parker.
These pages are newsgroup-specific posts, made by Gordon Roy Parker, (who uses the
fictitious internet pseudonym, "Ray Gordon"). These pages demonstrate the types of
posts, and the many newsgroups to which Ray posts them.

     Newsgroup: alt.seduction.fast
     Other newsgroups:

     alt.hypnosis
     alt.romance
     alt.seduction.fast
     alt.sports.gymnastics
     rec.sports.gambling
     Multiple Cross-posts

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Editor's note: According to our research, Ray made 365 posts to alt.seduction.fast*
between November 7th, 2001 and December 31, 2001. That breaks down to 1 post every
82.24 minutes, or 1 post every 1.37 hours.

*This includes crossposts to other groups.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: In NYC -- MrSex4uNYC?
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 11:56:02 -0500

From: "The Seduction Library" <le____seduc...@juno.com>
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

References: 1

Some guy wrote:

Hey, MrSexEtc...

I don't know if you're interested in meeting guys from the
the newsgroup, but email me ASAP if you are -- I'm in New
York until Sunday evening, staying at a friend's place in
the theater district. Probably going out Saturday night --
you interested in meeting up?

<------- If you want QUALITY women, the kind that take a year to get in bed, then BUY
MY BOOK. I have herpes. I am a genius with herpes.

The Seduction Library
All the knowledge of a seminar, for the price of two books

http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html

________________________________________________________________

YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Ross's "Government Contacts" Delusion
Date: 19 Oct 2000 19:35:30 GMT
From: averypsy...@aol.com (AVeryPsychicMale)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

He's mentioned it before...claims that he has NSA contacts, justice-department contacts.

I swear I know SEVERAL in NLP who try this crap. The first time someone tried it on
me I sat there absorbing it. That he expected me to BELIEVE him was incredible, but I
don't think he knew I was playing along. I played along not because I believed him,
but because I had no idea what that NUT would do next. Very quietly, not long after
that, I simply stopped speaking to him.

Ross has serious problems if he expects people to take his self-importance seriously.
Loved his claim that he saw my "NSA File." Gee, what's in the file, Ross? Thought so.
People who work for the NSA aren't even allowed to ADMIT they work there. He'd be
better off throwing around John Gotti's name without backing than the crap he tried
to pull.

The delusion is almost as bad as the one that says women actually want to be
hypnotized out of their pants without ....yes, hypnotizing women without their
knowledge is the hallmark of a real man. Of course the women he does this to are of
such high-quality that they have to be perpetually replaced.

Run along, little Ross.....you're unraveling. Then again, if Derek Trunkated is your
biggest fan, what does that say about someone?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: what to do when she says "do u love me?" ??
Date: 07 Aug 2001 18:22:56 GMT

From: betfor...@aol.com (Bet For A Living)

Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 > i just wanna know, how do u act if she says sth like,
 > "is it like "love on the first glance?"" or "do u love
 > me?" ? i usually say sth like love develops from
 > affection/needs time to develop, is that suitable or
 > is it a turn-off for them? i mean, being a jerk is one
 > thing, but lie to them about loving them to get them to
 > bed, i think lying is like alterning reality, but it愀
 > only justifiable to a certain point, don愒 you think?

Guess what? Even when you don't SAY it, they are THINKING it. Why do you think
they're giving up their pussy?

If you're going to use ASF methods, you can't concern yourself with the hearts you
break, you can't concern yourself with her suicide threats when you leave, or even
her actual suicide after she's decided she can't live without you.

Remember, she was HYPNOTIZED into feeling this way if NLP was used, and that can be a
powerful force. When the "incredible connection" breaks, the woman will GRIEVE. She
will feel INCREDIBLE PAIN, but hey, the guys got their rocks off so who gives a shit?

As they say, this isn't a group about morality.

Ray Gordon, Author
The Seduction Library

http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Maddman dodges Bluto
Date: 27 Nov 2000 05:55:28 GMT
From: iteachh...@aol.com (I Teach Hypnosis)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 > Mostly it was body language, both his and the chicks. There
 > was a little time between when he said it was cool and when
 > they were leaving the club. He looked like 1) he didn't
 > want to leave the club and 2) he sure as hell
 > wanted to break somebody's face.

And THIS is what I warn about. Trust me, I've been threatened by more Blutos than all
of you put together. I piss women off all the time, calling them office bimbos, etc.
I also show the men that their reaction is stupid by asking them who's going to
attack THEM when the woman turns against them. Many men I've actually convinced that
it's stupid behavior, but that's not something I recommend to others. When I exposed
Dominique Moceanu's abuse, her friends and fans knew she wanted it kept quiet and
threatened me on a DAILY basis. I didn't back down because I felt it needed
publicity, but in a stupid pickup situation there's no reason to risk this.
Foxhunting is ABSENT these risks, and that's one of its main advantages. Doesn't seem
like much until you are staring Bluto in the face. I let women know -- I PREEMPT them
this way -- that I carry no spinach and that if they let some guy act like that they
are FORGOTTEN IMMEDIATELY. It's a way of displaying INTELLIGENCE and letting her know
I don't tolerate her shit. Very effective if used properly.

 > When he said it was cool, it didn't really seem to me that
 > he was over it, but more like he was backing down.

You were right to confront him. That made him think: 1) "Could this guy kick my ass"
(big guys don't have to fight much and know that short guys do and often are VERY
tough); and 2) "Am I going to spend forever fighting over a woman I'm mad at?" Much
as the people here like to accept the status quo, challenging it can pay off big. In
the case of Michelle, where she would try to pit Chris (her other guy) against me,
Chris and I would compare notes and that INFURIATED her, because we refused to
fulfill her fantasy of two guys fighting over her. Consequently, she cut that shit
out over time. Still, in a club you can't be sure that this will happen, as physical
proximity is greater than online (another advantage of online pickups)

 > Maybe he was feeling like he needed to vindicate himself
 > after backing down

Probably. Some guys are VERY fucked up and it only takes one to mess YOU up. Why get
into that situation when you can PREEMPT it with Foxhunting? By making women approach
me, they can't say I was bothering them at all.

 > in front of his chick. Maybe he and the girlfriend got into
 > it after I spoke to him and he got pissed off again. He
 > probably had a few beers in him.

Another ingredient in the recipe for danger.

 > As for why he wanted to hit me (I believe), he was an AFC and
 > had no other way to deal with a percieved threat to his
 > girlfriend.

Yes an AFC, but strength is his GIMMICK. He's VERY well compensated for being in AFC
in that he has a woman you were chasing. Don't underestimate that.

 > If push came to shove, I think I probably could have talked
 > him down.

I remember when I was bodybuilding some guy who had picked on me started talking
tough and I thought to myself "I can squat double his weight 20 times." I imagined
myself lifting him over my head and throwing him across the room and lost all fear.
Oddly, he lost all aggression at the same point.

 > Plus, I wasn't worried since I have been chatting and hanging
 > with the bouncers a bit lately. In the club, wasn't shit gonna
 > happen.

Nope. Cops are on your side if he hits first. You get to hit back and he gets
arrested. Brains add to brawn a lot in that situation.

Still, I like FOXHUNTING because it ELIMINATES this crap. Totally. It's not a loud
part of the system, but a very important part.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: A partial list of federal statutes that RicoRay's almost certainly violated
was Re: Parker v. John Doe: Case Update
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 03:48:03 -0600
From: Jake Thomson <jaket...@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
Reply-To: jaket...@uswest.net
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

Odious wrote:
 >
<snip>
 >
 > Did you or did you not create multiple AOL screen names
 > like:
 >
 > ICYBEREDDM
 > ICYBEREDJD
 >
 > Did you or did you not make numerous sexually explicit and
 > lewd remarks to under aged girls in alt.sports.gymnastics?
 >
 > Did you or did you not state that you view these girls are
 > sexual performers?
 >
 > You are on record doing all over these things. And all you
 > need to have done to meet the definition of molester is:
 >
 > 1.To disturb, interfere with, or annoy.
 > 2.To subject to unwanted or improper sexual activity.
 >
 > You've clearly done both. As such the label is very fitting.
 >

I spent several hours nosing about Title 18 United States Code
- Crimes and Criminal Procedure this evening. It was quite
enlightening. Based on what you're saying here Odious, it
appears that RicoRay has criminally violated several federal
statutes. For example, based on what you're reporting in this
post it appears that he's violated:

1. Title 18 USC Section 2425 - Use of interstate facilities to
    transmit information about a minor,

2. Title 18 USC Section 2261A - Interstate stalking

3. Title 18 USC Section 875 - Interstate communications

In making those threatening and harassing comments to underage
girls he violated several other sections of federal criminal
code because he almost certainly posted them via Juno.com and
AOL. In posting via Juno when they've expressly told him to
cease and desist, it would appear he has also criminally violated:

4. Title 18 USC Section 1028 - Fraud and related activity in
    connection with identification documents and information.

5. Title 18 USC Section 1029 - Fraud and related activity in
    connection with access devices.

6. Title 18 Usc Section 1030 - Fraud and related activity in
    connection with computers.

7. Title 18 Section 1341 - Frauds and swindles

8. Title 18 Section 1342 - Fictitious name or address

9. Title 18 Section 1343 - Fraud by wire, radio or television,

and

10. Title 18 Section 1962 - Prohibited activities under RICO because
     of his almost certain violation of Section 1030 in accessing
     Juno.com's computer network.

Most of those are felonies with a minimum of 5 years in jail. I
mean he's into Juno for over $30,000.00 US so far this year,
based on their $200/day TOS violation provision.

You can read more about the statutes in question by going to:
http://uscode.house.gov/usc.htm
and doing a search.

Again, based on what you imply, ie, you've got chat logs & such
implicating RicoRay in his criminal depradations, please report
him to the FBI.

In addition to that, I'm sure all of those offenses are offenses
under Penssylvania law too. Plus he's left himself open for
criminal perjury charges in Pennsylvania because he lied on
his filing by claiming he has no aliases. I mean, he's suing
because somebody libeled Ray Gordon, an alias, when on the
filing he claims no aliases. That sure looks like perjury to me. . .

--
Two guys are walking down the street.
The first guy walks into a bar, the second one ducks.
Visit my web page:
http://www.users.uswest.net/~jakethomson
jaket...@uswest.net

Note: Ray never responded to this, that we know of.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: The challenge is accepted. I'm willing to do your legwork.
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:30:11 -0500

From: "John C. Ryan, Jr." <Jetm...@oohay.com>

Organization: ---[ * ]---
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

Outfoxed By The Foxes wrote:
 >
 > You say I don't have the balls to sue you? Why not just state your
 > name and address then? Then give us a way to verify it so I know
 > exactly where to send the complaint.
 >

Tell you what. When you post your full legal name, address, and contact information
for your attorney of record, I'll send you the same information, via certified,
insured mail, in addition to a post here with the same information. Fair enough? I'm
offering to do your legwork for you. I can't make it any easier than this.

 >
 > I could have you sued very very shortly if you really want
 > me to. You're not AFRAID, are you? Why not back up that
 > big mouth of yours sometime? You know damn well you're
 > scared. I leave it to you to prove otherwise. You've
 > already made several posts against me which are actionable.
 > If you really want me to prove to you that I'm not full of
 > shit, test me.
 >
 > Are you man enough? I don't think so......
 >

I'm more than happy to meet you, personally, under any circumstances you can name.
I'll purchase airline tickets for both of us, to any destination within the 48
contiguous states, to meet with you personally, to discuss this issue. I'm more than
willing to meet with you, any time, anywhere, in person, to settle the issue of
whether or not I am man enough to accept whatever statements or actions you wish to
take. I don't know how it is possible to state this more clearly than I have already
done.

If this isn't as accomodating as possible to you, and you aren't willing to accept
these terms, then I can only believe that you aren't willing to back up these
statements you have made.

You and I both know that you have threatened legal action against many other people,
in addition to me, and that none of your empty threats have ever been fulfilled.

Put up, or shut up.

 > Outfoxed By The Foxes: How To Avoid Seducing The Women Of Your Dreams,
 > Because You're Too Afraid To Take What You Really Want From Fer.
 > http://www.cyberbullshit.com/fox/index.html
 >
 > WARNING: I will not respond to libelous attacks on USENET, but will
 > respond to them in a court of law.
 >

I've been waiting for over a year.

--

Jack

<----------<< =+= >>---------->

The problem with Paradigms,
is that Shift happens...

(Reverse "oohay" to reply.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Forget The SS List: Does CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR Bother You?
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:34:32 -0400
From: The Seduction Library <freeeeeee____s...@juno.com>
Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

You've seen THIS with your own eyes too.....

Oedipus calls my mother a prostitute and defames me. Bishop thretaens to use
"connections deep within the government" to wreck my life.

Ever wonder why Ross's Customers don't criticize him much? HE HAS THEIR PERSONAL
INFORMATION!!!

Do you want to trust your personal information to a man who tolerates CRIMINAL
BEHAVIOR from his "super secret inner circle?"

Given what's happened to me, is it really any wonder.....? No one in their right mind
would risk angering someone who had their personal information who tolerated CRIMINAL
BEHAVIOR from his inner circle.

The posts are archived. You SAW them with your own eyes. Anonymous defamation IS a
CRIME in my state and many others.

The Seduction Library: THREE FREE Books On How To Find The Ideal Lover
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

The Revolution! FREE Selections For Horseraces and Sporting Events
http://www.cybersheet.com/sportpix.html

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Female needs advice about ASF and AFC
Date: 14 Jun 2001 10:00:14 GMT

From: theweake...@aol.com (The Seduction Library)

Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 > OK, here's the situation:
 >
 > My brother is 26 years old. He's above-average looking,
 > has a well-paying job ($50K), your typical "nice guy",
 > great sense of humor, kind to animals, blah blah blah.
 > Any woman would be lucky to have him, in my opinion.
 > However, he is also your typical AFC and hasn't had a GF
 > in almost 3 years, which is frustrating the hell out of him.

Hmm, I'm 34, no steady income at present (the money I made working last winter and
this spring I'm using to pay my own salary while I build my business), have herpes,
live with my family, am generally REALLY rude to women, and have two 18 year-old
prospects I wouldn't change for the world, along with about 50-100 "empty netters" I
could settle for tomorrow (an "empty netter" in hockey is a goal scored against an
undefended net and which is therefore EASY).

If I had your brother's life situation, I'd be fucking half of the Miss America
pageant every year!

 > I think he would benefit a lot from this group and the
 > related web sites. However, even though we're somewhat close,
 > I'm fairly certain that he would view any advice from his
 > sister with a great deal of suspicion, and probably reject
 > it outright. Something like this coming from a male friend
 > would have more impact, but his SISTER giving him relationship
 > advice? No way! :-)

Why not?

Though you could be the first ASF chick to wind up on Jerry Springer if the help
mission goes wrong hehe.

 > So, what do you think would be the best way for me to present
 > this information to him, in such a way so that he would actually
 > give it some consideration? I'm having trouble explaining this,
 >  but if any of you have siblings maybe you can understand this
 > dynamic.
 >
 > Thanks for any help.

Just tell him what you're telling us!

The Seduction Library: solve your love life! FREE!!
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: James King: Please Post Or E-mail Me Your Address
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 07:08:06 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>

Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4

news:9s94rf$rgg$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
 > > >
 > > > yeah!
 > > >
 > > > you tell'em Ray!
 > > >
 > >
 > > I said the MOMENT someone took this offline I'd be ready.
 > >
 > > I'm ready.
 >
 >
 > Ready for what Ray? Ready to sue someone for speaking the truth and
 > saying you said what you said about the WTC?

Is your name James King?

Truth isn't a defense of any kind in this case. We're talking extortion, blackmail,
harassment, and tortious interference with my everyday life (there are contracts in
there). We're also talking about OTHERS who will have legal standing against him and
several others from here.

Further, from a defamation angle, there's the issue of "false light." Still, this is
about harassment and extortion and blackmail, not defamation.

There are limits to what one can do with what they claim is the "truth."

There is also a LONG prior history of his trying to undermine my business interests,
including his off-the-wall assertion that OTF wasn't registered with the copyright
office. If solicitors found the registration, he should have been able to.

You and Ross aren't far behind on the civil RICO action which is coming. If you want
to see an example of an NLP expert in a deposition, watch Clinton's sometime. It's
not a pretty sight when someone can't pattern their way out of something.

Your blather is irrelevant here, as I'm moving this debate to the media and the
courts. You seem to think I'm trying to deny what I said, yet I'm the one who's not
running from the publicity. I want these issues raised; I just want to also live in
peace like every American has the right to, and not have someone cherry-picking the
archives without my being able to present my side.

The technique that King threatened me with, and which others copied, is called "Black
PR" and it is generally associated with the Church Of Scientology.

On an unrelated note, Tom Cruise, a Scientologist, played a character based on Ross
Jeffries in the movie "Magnolia."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Speed Seduction At The University Of Pennsylvania
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 05:56:01 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>

Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4

 > > > > Coming soon to a STUDENT NEWSPAPER near you.....
 > > >
 > > > Gosh Ray... you've gone from claiming that the media
 > > >  of the world will tell your story, to claiming that
 > > > you might get some college rag to notice you.
 > > >
 > > > LOL!
 > >
 > > Are you insulting the Daily Pennsylvanian?
 > >
 >
 > Simply pointing out that a college paper is not the
 > national media you claimed was ready to swoop in all
 > over this. What happened Ray?

It's ONE PART of the national media, a newspaper read by 10,000 female students and
another 3,000 female staff EVERY DAY. There is no better way to quickly inform the
entire campus of what's going on with regard to what some men are doing to some
women, and how.

There's also the issue of the type of threats this student made and whether or not
that is conduct becoming an Ivy-League student. Right now he's gotten off scot-free
because he has been able to stay anonymous; just from his reports alone one could
probably figure out who he is, or even locate the women involved, assuming that the
reports are genuine.

 > > What better way to spread the gospel of Speed Seduction than with a nice
 > > article on the two local boys who use it, how one of them threatened me, and
 > > another took an underage girl to a party, and when she protested at his
 > > trying to take her panties off, he CONTINUED to attempt.
 > >
 > > You've always said SS needs as much publicity as possible......
 >
 >
 > And hey, I bet that they'd love some links to your
 > WTC posts too, huh Ray?

There's a difference between going through the media and making personal contact to
people. One is free speech, the other harassment and tortious interference. I am
going strictly through public channels here.

The media hasn't had any interest in anything I've said out here, although I had been
saying the same things about Wall Street for ten years.

Any discussion of my remarks necessitates a discussion on sexual harassment on Wall
Street. Those most opposed to that type of dialogue are the people everyone claims to
want to stand up for.

 > So the story can be nice and well rounded. After all
 > you want people to know what prompted the "threat"
 > that make you so afraid.

Too bad he was doing stuff before then, as were many others. I don't see a list of
other people they're up on their soapbox to fight, so that raises the issue of
ulterior motives. In fact, it was what happened for several years before that which
created disenfranchisement in the first place.

Ross ducks me in public debates for a reason, and it's not that he doesn't consider
me "worthy" or any crap like that. If he didn't, and if you and others didn't, you
wouldn't bother replying to me or devoting an incredible amount of energy towards
attempting to turn public opinion against me.

 > > > If you could only see how pitiful you are, you'd
 > > > have killed yourself long ago. But then you said
 > > > you'd do that too, didn't you?
 > >
 > > Does your daddy know what you've been doing on USENET
 > > again?
 > >
 >
 > Yawn...
 >
 > > Maybe it's time to boycott his business via a website,
 > > which is constitutionally protected free speech.
 >
 > Yes, and perhaps the same should be true of your business...
 > and all those who support it. However it is hard to think
 > how people could boycott a product with only 5 customers
 > a year.

You're lying again.......are your arguments so weak you have to lie? As I've said
before, Paypal doesn't track your sales with that number, but the number of your
customers who have VERIFIED Paypal accounts. This number is almost always very low
even for businesses with lots of sales.

This doesn't even deal with the issue of how social proof appears to be your
gospel.....are you so easily manipulated by what you think others think now? How
sheepish.

I was on a web-based e-mail list and a very interesting discussion of Ross,
soc.singles, and something regarding one of his books about 4-5 years ago came up.
The person provided a very "interesting perspective" of several threads which are
relevant to this....perhaps I should link.

 > But hey, maybe Penny has a business. If you think the parent
 > should be held responsible for the actions of their adult
 > offspring... I'm sure that standard could be applied to you
 > as well.

There's a difference between boycotting a business via the web and doing so offline:
one is free speech, the other tortious interference.

I happen to have a business myself, which as I've said before is profitable and growing.

 > And tell me Ray, why is a website protected free speech, but
 > post cards pointing to a website are not?

             Editor's note: We are relieved to see that Ray believes
             that a WEBSITE is PROTECTED FREE SPEECH.

Tortious interference law. One is general speech put into the public arena, and the
other is a direct attempt to destroy an existing or potential contract, which
apparently enjoys a ridiculous level of legal protection.

Those who sent or encouraged others to send postcards to my area are going to be
tripped up by those laws, and by harassment and stalking (and conspiracy) laws. In
one case, demands were made which raise the crime even worse. The same applies to
people who urge contacts in my local area (such as malicious reporting to local
officials), or who solicited others to join their crusade (conspiracy), which will be
your undoing within the next eight years when I file suit against you...in PA, not CA.

As for what contract is being interfered with, living arrangements are governed by
contract, and on TWO sides......I'm not going to be the only one with standing to sue
here, or maybe even to prosecute.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Will SS really work?
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 06:32:41 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>

Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1

 > Will SS really work?..I'm strongly thinking about buying
 > it. And, to what extent? Can I ride it alone or will I need
 > ASF and fastseduction.com and shit?

It'll work on sluts as a rule.....though you wouldn't want to marry most women you'd
get with it.

Also hope she, her male friends, and especially her male RELATIVES don't find out
you're using HYPNOSIS to try to get her to do something she otherwise wouldn't do (if
she would do it otherwise you wouldn't need the "technology"), because some men get
pissed when they find out.

To the extent NLP and hypnosis are useful, SS is useful.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Flyers for Ray
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 01:17:22 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>

Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1 , 2

 > > Use gloves-and obviously don't lick the stamps-and
 > > take them 50 miles out of town to mail them-mail half
 > > in one town-half in another..
 >
 > Not necessary. As long as the content is true and accurate
 > there is NOTHING illegal about sending them out.

Yes, there is: it's harassment, conspiracy to harass and incite, reckless
endangerment, stalking, extortion, and blackmail. It's also tortious interference
with a rental contract.

A number of people will fall under that umbrella the second anything crosses my
state's border. People have actively conspired within these newsgroups for some time,
and can be sued or prosecuted under RICO.

Consider also that there are many controversial people who live all across America,
and when they get harassed, the police do prosecute because they have to in order to
avoid riots.

Add in all the legal standing I already have and you're looking at a whitewash in the
courtroom.

 > Of course if somebody was standing on the corner screaming
 > defamatory remarks about Everybody Hates Raymond at the
 > top of their lungs WHILE handing out the flyers, then there
 > might be some problem with the law, and potentially court.
 >
 > But if done properly, there ain't a thing Wile E. can do about
 > it . . . not . . . a . . . thing.

Oh there's quite a lot I can do, as people are about to find out.

The best thing to do is just systematically reveal everyone's identity here, on
websites, along with all the information **I** have on **them** in order to tell my
side of the story. Better still, I can reveal it in a lawsuit where it has "absolute
privilege" and immunity from libel actions.

More importantly, you folks are demonstrating once and for all that internet
harassment of this nature IS something worthy of being taken seriously, as the
information bullies here who try to censor people will go offline if their online
attempts fail.

The moment they do that, however, they bring the offline justice system down on them,
and I can tell you it's not like a TOS department.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Odiot: Want to see the ad in NEXT SUNDAY'S LOCAL PAPER?
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:44:10 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>

Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

It can be arranged.....still contemplating, not doing, but definitely considering.

All your postings, with links and quotes.....

Learn the difference between tortious interference and a boycott someday, and you'll
understand why it's illegal to harass individuals but not illegal to speak out
against them in the APPROPRIATE channels.

You called my mother a prostitute, and you've lied about a number of other things
here. Free speech is your right, though libel isn't free speech, but it's MY right to
announce a boycott of any business that would employ someone like that.

Ready to defend your rights, punk?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: ASF Men only get SLUTS
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 02:06:41 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>

Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

It's why they hide their women, and why their women hide them.

Trash mating with trash.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: AFC's: what girls really think about them
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:43:21 -0500

From: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Reply-To: "Ray Gordon, GENIUS" <cave...@nni.com>

Organization: Snodgrass Publishing Group
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fastReferences:

1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6

Too bad you men have to convince EACH OTHER and can't seem to bring women here to
back up your cases at all.

------

Subject: Re: AFC's: what girls really think about them
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 02:33:53 GMT

From: Odious <Odi...@home.com>
Organization: Happy Slappy The Wonder Pup.

Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7

"Ray Gordon, GENIUS" wrote:
 >
 > Too bad you men have to convince EACH OTHER and can't seem to bring women
 > here to back up your cases at all.

Once again here are posts which proves you are knowingly lying when you make this claim.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Ray, leave!
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:17:16 -0400
From: SlickEddieZ <slick...@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

In article <qX067.3293$jX3.50...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>,
Ray...@prodigy.net says...

 > Unfortunately Eddie is not in a 'MLTR' He is in a LTR, and
 > if you think his girlfriend will come and listen to some
 > 'tattle tale' who she doesn't even know over someone she
 > has shared unbelievably good moments with, you are sadly
 > mistaken. How exactly will you get this girl to your house
 > to 'expose' the dirty secrets anyway?

Ray ranted for a while about how ASF methods would never work if the women knew about
them. He claimed that if he were to have a 3 way talk with me and my GF, that he
would "bid me up" and she would see me for the "evil player" that I am and run
screaming... I responded by CHALLENGING him to put his money where his mouth is, and
meet me and my GF for coffee. (we live in the same town) Of course he came up with
1,001 excuses why he wouldn't (surprise, surprise!) The Irony of it all is that for
all Ray's ranting about how "if women know about this stuff it won't work" My GF/LTR/
whatever you want to call it READS ASF WITH ME!!!! I'll repeat that, just in case you
didn't catch it the first time- SHE READS ASF WITH ME!!! (she has posted under the
handle VIxter, btw...) So much for not knowing the methods, hah... She even gives
other guys ASF advice with regards to women... (read her post in the "The problem
with ASF!" thread.) BTW, see the following threads where I tear Ray's arguments to
shreds, and watch him wiggle when confronted with my challenge... (you might have to
cut and past the links to get them to work...)

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=I%27m+in+love&hl=en&group=alt.seduction.fast&safe=off&rnum=2&selm=9elvvo%
24pih%241%40netnews.upenn.edu

LINK

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Let+everyone+bear+witness&hl=en&group=alt.seduction.fast&safe=off&rnum
=1&selm=9f362d%24mv9%241%40netnews.upenn.edu

LINK

 > AFCs have been doing 'anti-player' tactics for the longest.
 > "God I hate gee golly players. You don't need to be with that
 > bad man who plays you when you can be with a nice guy like
 > me." Even if you 'expose' the techniques, I really doubt
 > that you can wreck the game of a 'good' player.

My GF reads ASF with me. 'Nuff said.

 > These techniques used by a good player make her FEEL good, and
 > if you spoil that for her by telling, I really doubt she will
 > run to your bedsack. There is also that issue of who she will
 > listen to more...

My GF reads ASF with me. 'Nuff said.

 > Also, those who want to set up a good MLTR will TELL the girl
 > that she is in an MLTR. And you claim to be using anti-player
 > methods, but what stops these players from exposing the techniques
 > that 'anti-players' use? They can highlight how much of a
 > snitch these guys are, and how they must try to ruin someone
 > else's relationship because they don't know how to old one
 > themselves. Plus, who will the girl be more willing to stay
 > with, the guy that makes her feel unbelievably good or the guy
 > sitting on the sidelines badmouthing the player in hope of
 > getting a little something. Sounds like amplified AFC methods.
 > Why not use your own game instead of trying to wreck someone
 > elses?

You are correct, the whole anti-player strategy = AFC strategy. It's funny, b/c that
is exactly what all the WBAFC guys I know try to do... They see chicks in
relationships with confident, outgoing, alpha guys, and they go whining to them "oh,
he's such a player... he's just seducing you, and will drop you as soon as your looks
to, etc... etc... (basically EXACTLY what Ray keeps saying)" and you know what? I
have NEVER seen it have ANY effect on a chick other than making her feel sorry and
disgusted for the pathetic, little man... Oh well, So as it stands...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Ray, leave!
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:03:09 +0100
From: drsquare <now...@nowhere.com>
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:17:16 -0400, in alt.seduction.fast,
(SlickEddieZ <slick...@yahoo.com>) wrote:

 >In article <qX067.3293$jX3.50...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>,
 >Ray...@prodigy.net says...

 >> AFCs have been doing 'anti-player' tactics for the longest.
 >> "God I hate gee golly players. You don't need to be with that
 >> bad man who plays you when you can be with a nice guy like
 >> me." Even if you 'expose' the techniques, I really doubt
 >> that you can wreck the game of a 'good' player.
 >
 >My GF reads ASF with me. 'Nuff said.

You see, Ray's argument rests on the assertion that women don't want to be seduced.
Everyone (apart from obviously Ray) knows that women WANT to be seduced. They WANT
men to SEDUCE them. That is where Ray's theory falls apart.

 >They see chicks in relationships with confident, outgoing,
 >alpha guys, and they go whining to them "oh, he's such a
 >player... he's just seducing you, and will drop you as soon
 >as your looks to, etc... etc... (basically EXACTLY what Ray
 >keeps saying)" and you know what? I have NEVER seen it have
 >ANY effect on a chick other than making her feel sorry and
 >disgusted for the pathetic, little man... Oh well, So as it
 >stands...

It's amazing how Ray thinks he can put up a website with his own seduction
information on. "Solve your love life! Free!" Well, you will solve your love life, in
that you won't have one. Nor will you have a sex life. You'll end up as another sad,
desperate, bitter lonely man like Ray. I just hope no new people to this newsgroup
end up getting conned into following Ray's advice, leaving them worse off than when
they came.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeri Snowdon <jeri...@mindspring.com>
Subject: My thoughts...
Date: 2000/04/22
Message-ID: <39012B3B...@mindspring.com>#1/1

Odious wrote:

 > Seriously though, i would be VERY interested to know what
 > the first SS experience was like for jeri...if it isn't too personal.

I don't mind sharing some general thoughts. ;) You first have to understand something
about me: I don't make a great deal of effort picking apart someone's conversation
with me. I take a more holistic view of the communication that is taking place. Jack
tends to talk more in concepts than specifics. I've watched him teach, and I'd put it
down to his training. He once was an engineer, and he has an ability to say a great
deal, without using up a lot of words. He talks in concepts. (At least to me he
does.) I had no idea that there was a "method" of talking like this until he showed
me this newsgroup, and some of the web sites that are mentioned here. Keeping this in
mind, the very first thing that I felt when I saw some of these things was a tinge of
excitement. He was showing me this for a reason. I didn't believe him for a minute
that he was just trying to explain that he has a, shall we say, full history. I knew
that he had dated a friend of mine, because she and I had talked about him. She said
that he had a way with words, and I left it at that. Anyway, coming back to Jack. (My
favorite subject!) I ...