Security system for puunene space

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Security system for puunene space Jerry Isdale 6/20/12 3:53 AM
Makers 

Today I met with the people who provide security system for CWD to get a quote for a system to cover our building.
I asked for two parts - one an alarm system using motion detectors covering the four main rooms with monitoring, and second video cameras.

Both options are multiple thousands of dollars, but monitoring is not too bad -- depending on options and buy/lease of system it would run $30-75/mo.

Big cost is the video camera/recorder setup.  I think we need something like this but perhaps we could create our own.

Does anyone have recent experience with alarm installation, etc?
Opinions on what we should have?
Areas of coverage for video, etc?

Jerry Isdale



Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space cole 6/20/12 11:01 AM
POV towards both directions of road for licence plates. In front of doors. 

Motion detectors should be X10 or insteon and cover our entire area.  x10 is cheaper, in both senses. Homeseer allows you to automate the space. So light come on when detectors go off and issue commands through speakers. It can also issue alerts to cellphones, videos can be viewed from cell as well.
Software should be homeseer running on a dedicated machine with a few TB of storage.

We need a desktop  and homeseer first. This is the core of the system and should be reliable above all else.
Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Brian Thomas 6/20/12 12:16 PM
ya, what Cole said :) 

Lets make this our second group project (after benchmaking).  Between our minds and others on this board (Chester..), I think we got it covered.  I will be going to Fry's at some point on this trip so let me know if you need me to get anything.  I also have an old desktop that I think might work.
Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Garrett Lisi 6/20/12 12:26 PM
Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Jerry Isdale 6/20/12 12:32 PM
I'm torn between the make vs buy decision on the alarm side.  After doing some googling on cameras - I'm definitely on the make side there.  Havent googled alarms.

We need an Alarm in asap at least... with battery backup, siren, cell phone service & notification to a list of numbers.

Benchmaking -- we should plan out the shop space a bit before making benches but I'd go for solid benches around most of the perimeter of Shop room.  The tool cabinets we have need to be cleaned and trash tools thrown out/reconditioned.  then we address tool storage and needs.  including what equip will be on benches/shelves.

Jerry Isdale


Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Craig 6/20/12 12:52 PM

Just for reference at Hive13 we don't have an alarm company. We are in a bad area that is a warehouse district. I don't know how bad your b&e crime is there. We just have a push button combo lock on the door. We have a webcam and recently added a donated security camera system but the recordings are in the space. In 3 years we had around $60 in cash stolen from our donation can and se small things go missing after parties. No smash and grabs or anything. All crimes have happened by people with the code or friends of the space. So I wouldn't go crazy on security based on fear of what *could* happen unless you feel the risk of loss is more than the cost of a complete monitoring system

Craig

Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Brian Thomas 6/20/12 1:08 PM
Good input Craig.  We are in a spot that has low risk to thieves as it is out in the boondocks and they have already been rewarded several times and so positively reinforced so, b&e is real.

Garret- that would work well and is cheap to monitor.  We probably could make a cam setup like R.....t did.

Jerry, we are makers that make and so being that we have no funds ought to help skew the decision to make this.  

What is the next step?
Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Jerry Isdale 6/20/12 3:42 PM
We are NOT in a low risk area.
CWD (our neighbors) have been broken into on a number of occasions with computers, printers, etc stolen.  They have also had their trucks (parked in area) vandalized (wires cut, windows broke, etc.)  
The guy who farms the space behind MFOL has had equipment stolen (old shovels, hoses, etc)
Cole has had batteries, motor and trailer stolen off the boat parked behind the container.
I have chased shady characters out from behind the building on several occassions.

I do NOT want to put $1000s of easily pawnable equipment (computers, tools, etc) into the space and have it broken into. We have not had problems yet - mostly because people dont know what we have... although there are rumors and I think people have tried to pry into the container already.  When we start promoting more, all sorts of people will know (or think they know) what we have.

I believe, whatever we get needs to:
* operate with backup power
* use cell phone connection (so phone line loss/availability is not an issue - note we do not have a phone)
* cover the internal 4 room, perhaps internal container for motion
* capture high quality (res tbd) video
* not be subject to easy theft itself

Backup power requirement removes X10 style equipment from consideration, and adds issues to cameras.
Cameras should be sufficient resolution to identify people and vehicles without CSI magic resolution enhancement.
Off site access/storage of video is of strong interest. Access over storage in priority.
This means we need better network connection too. We cannot rely on CWD's internet access.
I was getting poor bandwidth yesterday at the space.

I do very much lean towards doing this ourselves -- especially after seeing a $7000 proposal for camera system (w/significant markup on cameras vs google shopping).  There appears to be several FOSS solutions for video surveillance software.  I know there are also a couple access control packages for hackerspaces... including RIFD badge access to building and tools.  I havent seen support for FOSS/hackerspace alarm systems... but I havent looked yet.

At this point (for today) i have a price point for budgeting.  This is enough for now as I need to get budget idea ready for Fryday meeting.
 
Jerry Isdale


Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Ben Ward 6/20/12 3:52 PM
Brian meant it is a low risk of getting caught for the thieves.
Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Jerry Isdale 6/20/12 3:58 PM
ahh yes -- I read that now.  Did first read on stupidphone and missed that part.

Jerry Isdale


Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Craig 6/20/12 3:59 PM
Damn Jerry, you just made Maui seem worse than Detroit.  I recommend you *not* be on the tourism board :)  j/k
Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space cole 6/21/12 10:27 AM
True backup power is wayyy overkill. Everything else i agree. x10 can still work on backup power, I think its unnecessary, power rarely goes out for long. An APC for the computer, with a few hours of power is more than enough backup.
Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space RogerI...@aol.com 6/21/12 12:05 PM
Is the security system intended to discourage thieves, or to help catch them once they've stolen something? I'm thinking it might be sufficient to put up dummy "security cameras" in very obvious places with impressive blinking LEDs, plus signs at the doors ,windows and other entry points that say something like, "24 Security Surveillance : You are being visually and audibly recorded RIGHT NOW and have been since you entered the property." 
 
In addition, it might be cheaper to get an insurance policy against theft and damage than it is to install a real security system.
 
- Roger Garrett
 
Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Craig 6/21/12 12:19 PM
Hive13 basically went that route.  Minus the fake cams.  We use State Auto for our insurance (yeah, who knew State Auto would insure a hackerspace?) If I recall correctly we have $2million in insurance and pay ~$375 every 6 months.  I can probably find the actual insurance agreement (with details on exact what is covered under loss and liability, etc.) and contact person if interested.

Craig
Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Craig 6/21/12 12:23 PM
Oh I forgot to mention that making a security system is fun.  So there is that.  Also our longest ever mailing list thread discussion was on the spaces door lock.  It's hard not to bike shed on something fun like this.  We still revisit with new ideas about using rfid chips that keep track of tools you are trained on that could even be used/read at other hackerspaces via the open door project ( http://wiki.hive13.org/Opendoor_Project )

At least one working webcam is nice to see who is in (or has been in) the space recently. http://www.hive13.org/?page_id=16
Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Jerry Isdale 6/21/12 1:34 PM
The reason for the web cams is multifold -- 
discouraging thieves is definately one part
identifying them is another - whether MPD uses it or not.
Lasers and machine guns will provide another level of protection. :-)
A web cam to monitor the space for activity is useful too.  Its also real nice to have for streaming meetings.

Jerry Isdale


Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Matthew Badeau 6/21/12 4:28 PM
Craig, can you send me the contact info? Will they insure Hawaii spaces?

(Sent from my mobile device.)
Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Jerry Isdale 6/21/12 5:37 PM
Craig will (should) be at our maker meeting on Maui tonight.
You want me to call you?

Jerry Isdale


Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Craig 6/21/12 5:43 PM

Just got on a plane at LAX and won't be in Maui until 8ish so I'll miss tonight's meeting but will look up the info once I get settled in.

Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Jerry Isdale 6/21/12 8:22 PM

Meeting will be happening when you leave the rental car lot. Drive over or see u Saturday

- Jerry Isdale
pls excuse typos. sent from phone w dumb autocratic. err autocorrect.

Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Craig 6/22/12 3:06 PM
Here is the information on Hive13's insurance policy plus our agent for the contract.

Property - $25,000 of property owned by the organization. $1,000

deductible.
Liability - $1,000,000 of liability coverage for the organization.

Total annual premium = $692

Chris Kent, CIC
Kent Insurance Agency
 513-791-6060 - local
 877-791-6060 - toll free
513-791-6087 - fax
859-468-8213 - cell
www.kentagency.biz 
Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space Matthew Badeau 6/22/12 6:35 PM
Damn. Hawaii's not on their map of covered states.
http://www.kentagency.biz/?page_id=41
Security system for puunene space Penfold 6/23/12 9:41 AM
Hi

I'm a lurker on this list from a hackerspace in Northern Virginia, Nova Labs. We went through the insurance process about 6 months ago. I'm not sure if the guy we used will be able to cover Hawaii, but maybe it will help.

-Michael

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Travis Good <travi...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [MauiMakers] Security system for puunene space
To: Michael Quaintance <michael.q...@gmail.com>


On Jun 22, 2012, at 10:06 PM, Michael Quaintance wrote:

Maybe we can help them out?
Feel free to pass John's contact info along.
It was his work with theaters that drew my attention.
He also specializes in not-for-profits so understands us all.

Cheers, Travis