|Update on 445 Hackney Road||Russ Garrett||1/4/13 7:12 AM|
Things are still moving forward, but with Christmas it's been a bit
fiddly. We should be able to start moving full speed on it next week.
It turns out we need to pay solicitors and surveyors' fees of around
£4000, which I'm not particularly happy about. It's not going to break
the bank but it's going to eat into the amount of reserves we have
Our revenue rose by 1.8% in December, which is decent compared to
previous Decembers, but we need to keep growing to meet our targets.
Our plan assumes a 20% growth over the next 6 months, but obviously if
we grow more than that we can buy more shiny things. Any bright ideas?
I'm still pretty confident that this is going to happen. Assuming
everything goes OK, I'd like to try and organise a larger site visit
in a week or two.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Update on 445 Hackney Road||SamLR||1/4/13 7:20 AM|
I'm all for some nice big party to get new members.
Maybe some sort of bonus for members who pay more than the average? Wall of fame perhaps? Free 3D printed thing (or laser cut or what ever?) Not sure if there's any demolition work that'll need doing around the new place but perhaps a "£1/swing of the sledge hammer" style game?
|Re: [london-hack-space] Update on 445 Hackney Road||tom||1/4/13 7:34 AM|
I'll paint them a mural in the style of the jonty one we have...
|Re: [london-hack-space] Update on 445 Hackney Road||Toby Catlin||1/4/13 8:13 AM|
TL;DR Tart up the london.hackspace.org.uk website so that it looks nicer and has a better project blog and promote sub groups more.
Showing off more detail about what projects members are working on could help attract new members. I know such information is added to http://blog.london.hackspace.org.uk but it could be presented in a more consistent and attractive way. The same goes for the projects section of the wiki. In fact I know the wiki has useful information but I don't find it very easy to use and I'll bet the uninitiated won't even touch it. There are a bunch of great CMS systems and we have a ton of good web programmers. It could be the first project of a web programmers sub group.
I also very much like the concept of sub groups as they are less overwhelming than being introduced to the entire space, especially as it grows. Most members will have had an initial reason why they are interested in joining the space. For example I found the space because it was on a list of places that could print reprap parts. I never built the Reprap but became a member once I had visited and met some folk. The sub group members could promote the Space in other suitable forums relevant to their sub and welcome prospective members. Again a clear description of each sub group on a nice looking, Google attractive website would help land interested people.
<can of worms>
Oh and I know this a very sensitive subject but I think the membership fees should be much clearer.
The wiki states:
"The minimum subscription is £5/month. The space requires our members to contribute an average subscription of £20/month to survive."
When I joined I was told the membership price was £40 a month which is what i paid. When i realised the average was £20 I was a little miffed but that was pre baby and so could afford it. I thought it was a worthy cause to give my money to so didn't change it. I think a single members rate plus a concessionary rate is fairer with special cases to be considered by the Directors.
</can of worms>
|Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Russ Garrett||1/4/13 9:17 AM|
The code for the web site is here:
If anyone wants to submit a pull request, they are gratefully accepted!
On 4 January 2013 17:04, MiJ <mi...@jenn.org.uk> wrote:
> Following Toby Catlin's comment I am reflecting that as a new and older
> member I have found the presentation of the hackspace online confusing and
> not easily appreciated for what it is. I think a more conventional website
> would get a wider range of people further into the site. Describing some
> projects in hand and what it might be possible to do with available
> resources will help make it clearer I think when people get to hear of the
> space you will have no problem finding new members. But I also don't see why
> 530 members cant self-fund the thing anyway. 3-4 Camden Town Shed members
> have earned half their rent doing chargeable jobs in perhaps 20% of the time
|Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Oskar Pearson||1/4/13 9:47 AM|
Hi Russ, All
I'm worried the mail below is akin to asking "what colour bikeshed" given the CMS debate, but unfortunately I can't necessarily do this in a pull request. It's actually more to do with shuffling directories around and installing software on the server.
I was actually thinking about this the other day. I volunteer (if anyone trusts me with the server login details :)
Does anyone fundamentally object to splitting things into a 'public site' and 'member site'? The public site would continue to run on the existing framework (for compatibility with doorbot etc), while the frontend could move an installation of Wordpress?
The CMS side would have a few 'curators' that can edit subgroup-specific pages, the home page, and so forth.
The Admin site could either migrate into london.hackspace.org.uk/members, or to members.london.hackspace.org.uk. I suspect the former will be easier given the recent transition to SSL, and the limitations of a non-wildcard SSL certificate (which is what I assume we have). This means the split between the CMS and the member's site is quite clear from a code point of view - I'd prefer to install them to different directories entirely for ease of upgrades.
I'm suggesting Wordpress because, well, it's simple enough for pretty much everyone to use. I don't think the Hackspace's needs require an all-singing-all-dancing CMS that includes 10^6 plugins. However, Wordpress is better suited to blogs than pages, in my view, so if the consensus is that Wordpress is the wrong direction, a-ok. I've not played with Joomla or Plone or pretty much any of the other CMSes though. Wordpress would work on a baby VM quite reasonably though, while some of the other CMSes are much more heavyweight.
* The wiki would remain as-is, and be linked-to from the CMS pages as and when a curator wants to link things.
* The events list would remain on google, but be included in a CMS page.
* We'd have to decide if we were happy for CMS authentication to be different to admin authentication. This could lead to code changes, presumably in the CMS. It might also be a good time to move away from a sqlite member's db.
The only code task in the existing repository (from when I last looked) would be to create a single URL segment that we can prefix all links with (or make sure all our links will work if relative). Additionally we'd probably have to create a link back / menu to the homepage on every rendered page, so that members don't get 'stuck' in the member pages with no way back to the main site (which already happens with the wiki). So there'd be a bit of integration with the wordpress theme colours and layout, once the theme+layout is chosen, but it's easy enough.
If I don't get back a chorus of 'no' I'll ensure the existing codebase works when placed into a subdirectory, and investigate moving the member list out of sqlite. What db does the system run for wordpress?
I'd also need to check with whomever runs/wrote the bank-account integration scripts to ensure that they only use code in the git repository, so that I don't break that.
I'd also patch doorbot so that it uses the right urls for fetching the carddb.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Martin Dittus||1/4/13 9:58 AM|
Could you start a new thread pls?
|Re: Update on 445 Hackney Road||CorpoWombat||1/4/13 1:39 PM|
Sorry to be an arse, but I find the position of on one hand not really requiring membership for access, and on the other generally being too skint to afford more fancy stuff rather odd, and utterly prejudicial to paying members. I appreciate the argument that it's shit times economically and not everyone can afford £10pm (although that's the price of three fancy coffees... don't have coffee once a week and you've saved more than that!), and that will need to be resolved someday (personally, I would have a concessions rate for unemployed, disabled and students, and expect the rest to pay up, but I"m a hard-hearted anarchocapitalist). However, I fear I'm not alone in thinking that being pestered all the time about considering paying more, etc., sits ill with the admirably charitable attitude of allowing all and sundry to come in and have, basically, the paying members subsidise their entertainment. I don't care about the financial side, but I do strenuously mind that a sort of 'no need to give anything back' attitude is engendered. That's not on. Folks who can't pay could offer to teach a course or do something else that's beneficial to the space, but as far as I'm concerned, the space loses out on a lot I'd be willing to contribute if I saw that it's used for the welfare of the space.
-CW, Cranky Disgruntled Capitalist
|Re: [london-hack-space] Update on 445 Hackney Road||Sci||1/4/13 2:55 PM|
Finishing outstanding (portable) infrastructure projects seems the
lowest-outlay solution to gaining extra attractive resources. EG; The
CNC mill project has been something "coming soon" since before I joined.
I'll try to get the brazing hearth finished up. It's sat nearly-done for
far too long. It just needs a few tender hours with an angle-grinder.
What else can be completed to appeal to people both pre and post move?
Also a members showcase/show-and-tell on the open evenings would be
good. Let people show off their work more, show what members can do.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Russ Garrett||1/4/13 6:15 PM|
On 4 January 2013 21:39, CorpoWombat <ch...@scribbleratlaw.com> wrote:You're not being an arse, feedback from our current members is the
best thing we can get. But why did you only tell us this now?
The first issue I have is that I don't see how we're "generally being
too skint to afford fancy stuff". The Hackspace has a decent amount of
money, although a substantial portion of it is currently earmarked for
the new space. We're run by our members, though, and we can only spend
money when our members decide to. I don't think we've ever turned down
any purchases (although we sometimes structure them by matching
members' pledges, instead of spending all of our money on it).
I also object to your "no need to give anything back" implication. A
lot of what the trustees do is making sure that members are paying a
reasonable membership, and reminding them if so. If you feel that
someone isn't paying their way, then you need to let us know, because
unfortunately we're not omniscient.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Update on 445 Hackney Road||jt||1/5/13 1:06 AM|
I did a metalwork sculpture course recently, and in the list of places someone could go to use equipment the London Hackspace was mentioned, and the tutor was really positive about the place.
If some kind of advertising / guide / tour could be arranged for people on things like that, it may help. (It was at CityLit, happy to give more details if anyone is interested, I hesitate to post the persons email here, as I'd hate for him to be spammed because of me).
Likewise for other people interested in art - painting can be a messy smelly business. If we move to a larger space, then maybe get a few easels, and drop leaflets off at painting / drawing courses?
|Re: Update on 445 Hackney Road||phazonoverload||1/5/13 2:08 PM|
There's a lot to be gained in awareness. I only learn about the space while browsing the freenode channel list.
There are lots of co-working spaces out there and lots of communities that I believe would reap many members if only they knew.
A few of note;
I think a lot of people are alienated by the Hackspace's online presence seeming VERY geared towards hardware hackers, with no emphasis that developers/creatives are welcome.
I have no actual suggestions apart from awareness to other tech communities and most of all people who aren't hardware hackers.
Maybe more activity on the Young Hackspace front?
Anyway, there's my two-cents.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Russ Garrett||1/5/13 2:10 PM|
On 5 January 2013 22:08, phazonoverload <ke...@jellybabi.es> wrote:It's worth noting that over the last year we've been actively avoiding
publicity because we've been too cramped in the current space. Once we
have a new space, I'd like to change that and start publicising things
|Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Update on 445 Hackney Road||chrisbob12||1/5/13 4:46 PM|
Interesting comments above. Clearly going off-topic, but in a productive way. My skin in the game: I've been a member for the past year @ £20/mth, but not found time to get up from SEL except to get my oyster card logged on the system. Only figured out the email digest in the last month. Will give it another year, and see how it goes. Would like to etch some PCBs, and like to use the bench router (appalled that it didn't have extraction when I last looked at it) would like access to the metal-melting thing too. The world is big enough for fractal knitting machines too.
So far, the scope for on line conversation does not seem good. Locating to a different space does not appear to offer me significant advantage (I'd get a box of my own? I already expect to have to cart stuff back and forth on the overground) personal accommodation is not an issue, for me, so maybe hackspace is not the right thing for me.
So many questions. *sigh*
|Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Thoughts about the move and the financial state we need to be in to afford t (Was: Update on 445 Hackney Road)||mentar||1/5/13 5:39 PM|
I think it's very good of you to contribute an above average amount for the membership given you hardly visit the space. But think you are missing out! In my view of our space, it's more about the community than the physical space it's kind off hard to be a member of the community if you don't interact with other members in person or otherwise.
If you are appalled by the state of some of the equipment then you should really consider taking ownership of it, or at least help out a bit, having checked the Adopt-a-spanner page I see Phil has recently volunteered to maintain the Routing table.
I think moving the a bigger space will reduce the amount of friction that has been building over petty things that have been blown out of proportion by the circumstances of the physical space restrictions as well as those from the landlord (e.g. bikes, security, antennas etc) it will also allow for easier way of having a workshop as the quiet room is not suitable for present.
The transport is a bit of an issue (I'm even further than you, in Worcester Park) but then hopefully there will be less problems with leaving some of the bulkier objects while you work on them and you may want to use that box :)
BTW on the 14th I'll be showing the other NJA guys how to etch their own PCBs so you may be interested in that.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Thoughts about the move and the financial state we need to be in to afford t (Was: Update on 445 Hackney Road)||chrisbob12||1/6/13 3:01 AM|
@mentar - thanks for the positive feedback and constructive thoughts.
I over-committed last year, so it's up to me to resolve that.
What time are you planning to do the etch demo?
|Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Update on 445 Hackney Road||David Sullivan||1/6/13 4:19 AM|
On Sunday, 6 January 2013 00:46:49 UTC, chrisbob12 wrote:Interesting comments above. Clearly going off-topic, but in a productive way. My skin in the game: I've been a member for the past year @ £20/mth, but not found time to get up from SEL except to get my oyster card logged on the system. Only figured out the email digest in the last month. Will give it another year, and see how it goes. Would like to etch some PCBs, and like to use the bench router (appalled that it didn't have extraction when I last looked at it) would like access to the metal-melting thing too. The world is big enough for fractal knitting machines too.
With the super fine dust from the router and the sander poor extraction is worse than no extraction as it'll disperse fine particles into the air, unless we have extraction that has the fine particulate filters that won't clog or has filtration outside of the main part of the building (which isn't possible in the current space).
|Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Update on 445 Hackney Road||tim_n||1/7/13 11:07 AM|
are there boris bikes nearby?
|Re: [london-hack-space] Update on 445 Hackney Road||Martin Dittus||1/7/13 11:14 AM|
Just around the corner, in Pritchards Rd.
A 50m walk.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Thoughts about the move and the financial state we need to be in to afford t (Was: Update on 445 Hackney Road)||mentar||1/7/13 12:37 PM|
|Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Russ Garrett||1/8/13 10:38 AM|
We have instructed solicitors today and, assuming everything goes
well, we will be able to take possession in around 1-2 months.
We need to start discussing the logistics of:
- How we fit out the new space
- How we move
- How we publicise and raise funds for the move.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||mattp||1/8/13 11:01 AM|
Thank you to everyone who has made this possible. I know we've some
way to go, but even reaching this point is meritorious.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Martin (Crypt)||1/8/13 11:15 AM|
Awesome, congrats russ and everyone else. This should be a great move for us, I should be around for most of the move, so I'm sure there will be lots that need to be done that I can help out with. This is probably going to be a massive effort for all of us, so time to roll up the sleaves and get on with it :P.
I'm seriously excited about this ..
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Noko||1/8/13 12:10 PM|
This is great! I will volunteer now to drive vans....
On 8 January 2013 18:38, Russ Garrett <ru...@garrett.co.uk> wrote:
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||SamLR||1/8/13 12:11 PM|
Well done guys!
On 8 January 2013 20:10, Clare Greenhalgh <claregr...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is great! I will volunteer now to drive vans....
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||codeoclock||1/8/13 12:44 PM|
I don't have a van or car or driving license, but I'll be around to help with tearing down/setting up or whatever needs to be done that doesn't require transportation. Good stuff, looking forward to it!
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||ad...@aden.org.uk||1/8/13 1:20 PM|
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 55 bus full of hackers.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||naomijlea||1/8/13 1:36 PM|
I'm in for helping with non techie stuff. moving, cleaning, decorating and baking cakes/etc for any fundraising stuff.
Actually just a thought why not try hooking with Technology will save us for an event and use the new space as a venue and do a joint intro session say on Arduino/3D printing and usethat evening to plug the space and it's goings on's?
This has moved on really quickly its really impressive.
|Re: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Scooby||1/8/13 1:42 PM|
I'll be very willing and available to help out on the moving day, lifting, loading, and using my own Van, count me in 100%. Scooby.
On Friday, January 4, 2013 3:12:08 PM UTC, Russ Garrett wrote:
Things are still moving forward, but with Christmas it's been a bit
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||SamLR||1/8/13 2:05 PM|
So shall we start bike-shedding? NOTE: the below is barely thought out and more of an ideal scenario (especially the fit out ideas).
We need to start discussing the logistics of:
What do we have to do? From what I remember there's a small kitchenette (no oven/hob). Do we want to / can we put up sub divisions? If so I'd suggest the upstairs be 4 rooms: chill out, 'clean' workshop (e.g. sewing etc) then two multi use rooms (i.e. analogous to the social & quiet rooms). I'd suggest downstairs be divided up as well for metal working, wood working, members storage maybe electronics? I'm also assuming that one of the existing rooms will be given over for bio-hacking....
- How we move
Is there anything that's going to require specialist moving? The only thing that is going to be really tricky will be the 3-in-1. At a guess though I'd say we're going to need at least a week to move everything and get it even vaguely set up again (and probably about 5-10 trips with a van?)
Big parties again, plug the usual people/places, a big drive at UCLMakespace (which should be opening its physical space in the next couple of months so we might be able to poach members/suggest in a 'if you liked this why not try...')
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Nigel Worsley||1/8/13 2:30 PM|
> So shall we start bike-shedding?I am surprised it hasn't started already!
That shouldn't be too much of a problem, it weighs about 250kg if i
recall correctly, well within the capacity of a tail lift. We will
need a pallet truck to move it, but one of those is probably worth
buying for the new space anyway.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Sam Kelly||1/8/13 3:03 PM|
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 6:38 PM, Russ Garrett <ru...@garrett.co.uk> wrote:
> We need to start discussing the logistics of:> - How we move
> - How we publicise and raise funds for the move.Fantastic news, thank you for working on this!
Also (and yes, I've only just got around to look at photos of the
area) this seems to mean we'll be occupying the floors under an A4E
Can we get exterminators in or something?
Sam Kelly, http://www.eithin.co.uk/
That's it. We're not messing around anymore, we're buying a bigger
dictionary. - Tibor Fischer, The Thought Gang.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Ben Barwise||1/8/13 3:11 PM|
This is brilliant news! Thankyou
We should also discuss music hack space there were loads of people down at troypanic (it was rammed ) at Christmas that are probably not members . Whilst I am not a fan of building a sound studio in the space it will attract a lot of new members if hack meetings are facilitated properly
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Adrian Godwin||1/8/13 3:24 PM|
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 10:05 PM, SamLR <sam.lind...@gmail.com> wrote:I'd like to advocate that we work out what activities are compatible
with others rather than a division of metal, wood etc.
welding and grinding - mustn't mix with anything else
lathes and drills - mustn't suffer grinding dust
paint - mustn't suffer sawdust, can produce overspray
laser - mustn't suffer dust or spray, needs ventilation
wood - no oil, produces much dust
electronics - generally clean, needs computers, good light
computers - away from windows and glare
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Sam Kelly||1/8/13 3:33 PM|
As a painter-printmaker-general-messer-around-with paper, what I'd
ideally want is the availability of large flat tables, lots of
newspaper, a sink in the same room, no dust, good light (natural if
possible), and almost most importantly somewhere for things to dry for
up to 48 hours without getting in peoples' way or getting
dusty/smeared. So I'd be strongly in favour of a "clean workshop"
or "light fab" area, for paper/textile work, laser cutting, soldering,
 We can do this easily by putting up some washing lines along a
wall, above desks or something.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Adrian Godwin||1/8/13 3:35 PM|
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 11:33 PM, Sam Kelly <s...@eithin.co.uk> wrote:This sort of painting is distinctly different from spraypainting, whch
is evil and dirty. Probably only compatible with welding (but not at
the same time).
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||mentar||1/8/13 3:58 PM|
Well done to Russ and the rest who've been involved!
Do we have any plans for the building? I volunteer to do a 3d sketchup
of the place so we can plan it out better and document it easier.
> We need to start discussing the logistics of:> - How we move
> - How we publicise and raise funds for the move.> --
> Russ Garrett
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Nigel Worsley||1/8/13 4:04 PM|
> this seems to mean we'll be occupying the floors under an A4E office?Don't worry, they are unlikely to be there for long :)
That reminds me, do we still have a cockroach problem in the space? We
don't want to bring them with us to the new one.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Adrian Godwin||1/8/13 4:17 PM|
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 12:04 AM, Nigel Worsley <nig...@googlemail.com> wrote:Good point - with luck, we'll be ready to expand again when they
implode at the next change of government.
|Re: Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Billy||1/8/13 4:37 PM|
Congratulations to everybody involved. :D
We've got work to do.
The breakdown of what activities are compatible by the amount of mess
they make is an excellent idea.
What sort of length of lease have we got? That'll let us know what
sort of effort that we can put into building the infrastructure. If
we've got a five year lease, then we should build things that will
last five years.
If the basement is going to be used as a workshop, then we will need
dust extraction and ventilation. Installing this won't be hard, but
we'll need proper filtering.
It will be worth taking a look at Martin Klang's office. He built a
sound-booth in a month on his own. With a few people involved and lots
of forward planning, we can build one in a week. It will be simple to
set-up and easy to dismantle, so if there's a space that we can use to
set up installations that would last for six months or so, then if
it's not being used as much as to justify the amount of room that it
would take up, then we can take it down.
I was chatting to Ian today, and he said he'll happily help us in
setting up a forge in the carpark. He's only got another 6-8 months
lease on the forge in Stepney City Farm, so he might be up for
building something more long-term.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||jasper||1/8/13 4:59 PM|
good ventilation for soldering etc. laos njeed to be careful about leaks
form the etch tanks.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Sci||1/8/13 5:18 PM|
Regarding the logistics of actually moving, I think we should avoid
making extra work for ourselves and ask members to remove personal
projects & stored items IF POSSIBLE for the duration of the move to
lessen the amount of items that require shifting. Plus in doing so it'll
likely serve a double-purpose as a final junk-purge as people decide
things aren't worth their keeping anymore.
I mean, if people can stand to take the contents of their members-boxes
home for a week or so, that's how many cubic meters & tonnes of material
that don't need loading onto a hire-van?
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Sci||1/8/13 5:28 PM|
On 08/01/2013 22:30, Nigel Worsley wrote:Only if we try to move it in one piece. I'd suggest dismantling it and
loading it onto a sturdy hand-trolley rather than buying new equipment
and adding ~�200 to the moving budget for a new one. At worst, just
But it's all about if the time & expertise required outweighs price. And
I note there's a couple of cheap 2nd hand ones on ebay atm.
You could grab this one for a tenner if someone could collect it from
Cylinder's probably knackered, but would only need to do a few hops &
could repair it later.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Sci||1/8/13 6:12 PM|
On 08/01/2013 23:24, Adrian Godwin wrote:Also put brazing and furnace work with these. Flammable, able to produce
dangerous fumes & residues. Will need ventilation.
* Dirty area.
* Area risk (noise, blinding UV light, EMF, flying debris)
But will produce swarf, chips, leave oil & grease residues on nearby
surfaces, coolent/lubricant spray.
* Dirty area.
* Area risk (noise, flying debris)
A simple spray-booth can be made from one of those greenhouse tents.
Also cheap enough to replace say once a year (especially at the end of
* Clean area (able to be)
* Will need ventilation.
* Local material storage
* Clean area
* Will need POINT ventilation
* Storage, clean area
* Working, dirty area
* Will require *extraction*
* Clean area
* Ventilation for acid-baths & soldering
* Clean area
I'd also add "textiles & crafts" which'd also need a clean area.
While we can't be too specific without at least a map of the area, the
main issue I see is ventilation verses "offence to the senses".
Welding, grinding, brazing, casting, painting, etc.. all need good
active ventilation, which gives it a priority of being upstairs near the
big rear doors. They're also the dirtiest, so you'd think they should be
prioritised near the bathroom with shower, rather than have filth
trampled through the space.
However they're also noisy and not particularly inviting to look at
(even dangerous), and if we want more members we need the upstairs to
feel inviting. Ideally we also don't want to annoy the upstairs
neighbours with excess noise and save us any future landlord issues.
Having a welcoming environment coexist on the same floor as these
processes is tricky, but I think it can be done if we compartmentalise
off around the rear door. Say leave enough reserved space to get a small
vehicle or rear portion of a van into the workshop (because someone will
want to do car repairs now they can, or unload out of rain). Say 3-4
meters? Then have a partition wall with courtesy windows for the
curious. Grinder noise is the only issue. I doubt proper soundproofing
will be economical, but some curtains over the wall may suffice for any
night-work. Simply opening the doors during day-work will decrease sound
internally. Grinding does seem to be done in sessions, so isn't a
*continual* noise issue.
So have a reserved work area large enough for a SMALL vehicle with the
metalworking tool stations along one side and the bathroom the other.
Perhaps even a short "porch" for it, for hanging coats/boilersuits and
further limit cross-contamination by dirt/sound/scent.
With metalworking cordoned off, the majority of the rest of the upstairs
gets to be social (making use of countertop area and mini-kitchen).
I'd put drills, woodworking, rage-saw and lathes/3-in-1 downstairs,
again partitioned off from cleaner crafts work & laser cutter, and again
from electronics in another partition but sharing a ventilation conduit.
And doormats everywhere so people wipe their feet between areas.
I don't think it'd break up the sense of space TOO much.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Nigel Worsley||1/8/13 6:16 PM|
> Do we have any plans for the building?I started to throw together a quick sketch about a month ago, no idea
if anyone is doing a proper one. It can be found here:
I can do a proper version if anyone has actual dimensions, a scan of
the back of a fagpacket scribble will do.
Sounds good to me!
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Solexious||1/8/13 6:18 PM|
On 9 January 2013 02:12, Peter "Sci" Turpin <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:
I think we should keep the segmentation of these to down stairs much as we have 23 and 24 now.
Its also worth noting at the roller shutter is a level *loading* dock so its not at ground level in the car park, no driving into the space. Using the upstairs like this will also mean any heat will go out the door.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Sci||1/8/13 6:48 PM|
On 09/01/2013 02:18, Charles Yarnold wrote:Doesn't look like that in the photos. There's the lift doors on the
loading dock and the roller shutter with a small ramp but essentially at
Also heat wouldn't go out the door if the area was partitioned off. I
meant up to the ceiling, so fully encapsulated.
Looking at the indoor pics though, it's not quite as I recalled. Not
enough space for the "porch".
Roughly what I'd imagined though was boxing in the area from the pillar
to the left of the first window beside the shutters and inward as far as
the wall with the lift's inner doors.
Unless it's coincidence, it looks like the lights for that area may
already be on a different circuit (since they're the only ones off).
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Solexious||1/8/13 6:55 PM|
Ah, my bad, I was remembering the shutters to the lift not the roller ones!
I still think keeping as much of the workshop downstairs as possible would be a better way to go, stops dirt and noise pollution to the non workshop areas of the space. Even with a brick wall the quiet room is pretty much as noisy as the main room when the workshop is in use at the current space.
That said I'm totally up for making a covered over section out in the car park to felicitate working on vehicles.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Sci||1/8/13 7:16 PM|
The only problem with downstairs is really ventilation. I mean, the
welding gear can come up on the lift and be wheeled out the back when
need-be. A cheap garden marquee will do to cover a vehicle. Collectively
having brazing, welding, wood, etch-tank, furnace, paint and more all
downstairs though gets to some serious-bore ducting that's going to be
less trivial to route outside. Less items downstairs means smaller bore
ducts we could likely navigate up the stairwells or such.
Even without the welding area by the shutters though, I'd still be
inclined to make it a "keep clear" area. The loading dock is going to be
excellent for Club Mate, machine-tools and the social-evening pizza
delivery, but most day-to-day lugging is likely to be out of cars and
vans, too small for the dock. The shutters are perfect for smaller
vehicle loading & unloading as well as project access to the car-park.
Some curtains would help limit heat-loss.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||tom||1/9/13 1:16 AM|
so do we get the street facing shopfront part? if so I WANT TO MAKE A HACKSPACE SIGN!
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||SamLR||1/9/13 2:06 AM|
Just a heads up I forked discussion of fit out to another thread.
Would it be worth considering having upstairs be the workshop and downstairs be the computer space? It might not be as pleasant but given that a dearth of windows is better for glare on screens. It also means that we aren't dependant on the lift for getting gear in and out (given it doesn't currently work and that may be the case again). The other benefit is that the basement should be easier to heat (as it doesn't have a huge window and roller shutter to let heat out via) as well as all the benefits of ease of ventilation. Obviously entrance via the front doors will be directly into the workshop (or possibly along a corridor or similar) but via the backdoor (IIRC) you can go straight downstairs.
Moving on from that I think we need to look at how we're going to heat the upper floor anyway, that shutter is going to let out a lot of heat and I imagine not get used often. I'd be in favour of boxing it off to some degree anyway just to supply further insulation
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Nigel Worsley||1/9/13 2:09 AM|
> so do we get the street facing shopfront part?Yes.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||tom||1/9/13 2:19 AM|
Then i shall begin the doodling!
a nice hanging H logo that should probably be lit up or something, pending council rules on "awesome things in public" etc
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Adrian Godwin||1/9/13 2:22 AM|
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Mark Steward||1/9/13 2:29 AM|
I suspect we'll want sitting areas on both levels. Dark and grungy can be fun (and is how we started), but in summer you'll be aching for light and airy space for arduino bashing. Of course, lighting will be more effective downstairs.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Nick||1/9/13 2:30 AM|
The Thomas a'Becket pub in the Old Kent Road has gone stained glass for their new pub sign.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Russ Garrett||1/9/13 3:20 AM|
On 9 January 2013 10:06, SamLR <sam.lind...@gmail.com> wrote:I don't think this is a good idea. The basement has low ceilings, no
natural light, and it's likely to get quite hot in the summer (we'll
probably need ventilation regardless of what we put down there).
We want to reduce the impact of workshop noise on our neighbours both
upstairs and next door. The best solution to this is to put the
workshop in the basement.
The lift will need to be working anyway or the basement won't be
The premises have an almost brand new gas-fired warm air heating
system which heats both floors.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Adrian Godwin||1/9/13 3:29 AM|
I agree about the noise impact and suspect we're pretty much stuck
with using the basement as a workshop. But the arguments here don't
stack up for me - basements are generally cooler in summer and low
ceilings are a nuisance for fabrication, little problem for desks.
The ideal would be basement storage, ground workshop, 1st desk space.
Of course, that's not an option - but it might be worth thinking about
what might happen in a couple of year's time, and perhaps the need for
more space. Keep things flexible.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Russ Garrett||1/9/13 3:33 AM|
On 9 January 2013 11:29, Adrian Godwin <artg...@gmail.com> wrote:I don't think the ceiling in the basement is any lower than the one in
our existing workshop, so I don't think it'll cause too much of a
problem. Large fab jobs are probably better done in the car park
As for temperature, consider our existing quiet room, which gets very
hot when full of people in any season. We're going to need better
ventilation across the whole space, so my point was that we can't
ignore ventilation in the basement purely because we're not using it
as a workshop.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Paul||1/9/13 3:38 AM|
On 9 January 2013 11:20, Russ Garrett <ru...@garrett.co.uk> wrote:This generally sounds like the better idea as far as I can tell.
My own point of view is that when working on a laptop/computer nature
light is less important than when I am doing something workshop-y.
Just because we have a similar height ceiling now, I don't see why we
should restrict ourselves when moving to a new place. The whole point
is to get a better building isn't it? Also if large fab jobs are
started inside, and grow more, moving them out via a lift when they
start to outgrow sounds a bit more difficult than just pushing them
out a big roller door?
Is ventilation easier for laptop-space as you can blow air around and
it doesn't matter too much? You don't want to blow sawdust around
This is an industrial building, no? Shouldn't a reasonable amount of
noise be expected from the building? When I've been to hackspace I
don't think the workshop has produced excess noise really.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Russ Garrett||1/9/13 3:47 AM|
(Can we move this discussion to the "Room/area proposals for
Hackney445" thread please?)
I strongly disagree. I don't like working without natural light. I
think having natural light will make the social/classroom spaces much
Additionally, natural light isn't an excuse for inadequate artificial
lighting in a workshop, especially considering most of our workshop
activities tend to happen in the evening.
Another thing to consider is that after entering the building you'd
have to walk through the workshop and downstairs before you'd get to
the social space.
Not so much, the key is extraction, and that's a similar amount of
No it's not, it's primarily offices. It's a B1 property, which
includes "light industry appropriate in a residential area."
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Russ Garrett||1/9/13 3:47 AM|
A bit more detail on the questions people are asking:
- The lease is for five years. We only have the possibility to break
at the third year, this is the norm with leases of this size, but it
does mean we're committed to approximately £250,000 in rent. (Assuming
our membership continues growing at the current rate this does not
worry me especially).
- This is a full-scale commercial lease. We can do anything we like
with the non-structural internals of the building.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Sci||1/9/13 7:15 AM|
>>> We want to reduce the impact of workshop noise on our neighbours bothI wonder, could we bring an angle-grinder and metal + hammer along and
get someone with good ears to knock on the upstairs unit's door and see
how much sound is *actually* transmitted from the ground-floor?
Also I think it may be helpful if we can get a proper dimensioned plan
of the space for planning, then go over with some big rolls of masking
tape and test some potential layouts.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Sci||1/9/13 7:16 AM|
Vacuum station + brazing hearth.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Dave (DMI) Ingram||1/9/13 7:18 AM|
On 09/01/13 15:15, Peter "Sci" Turpin wrote:+1 excellent idea.
I like the idea of zoning the areas based on what sort of activities
they're suitable for. Clearly marked borders (colour + pattern) and
explanations could help keep it that way.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Dario||1/9/13 7:58 AM|
I second Sci's suggestion and will be relocating my box for the duration of the move.
Incidentally I recommend that someone take Project Management role and starts to poll for volunteers for different task forces: Cleaning, Builders & Painters, Loaders & Movers, Drivers, Network Engineers, Electricians, etc.
I volunteer already for Cleaning, Loading and Network Teams! ;-)
Cheers and congrats to the whole Hackspace membership!
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||VinnyFox||1/9/13 8:13 AM|
I ditto the project management/delegation
We can easily ensure that things go a smoothly as they possibly could.
Let me know if anyone needs electrical/network-sys admin work to help tranisition stuff
|Re: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Kal||1/9/13 9:51 AM|
I'd like to help in the planning and installation of the new workshop space. Any idea's on what would be the best way to decide on how to allocate space for each of the main work area's?
In my mind this is a fantastic opportunity to rethink and improve on the current way we have allocated space (e.g. more or less adhoc) so that everything runs more smoothly and is easier to maintain/keep tidy.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||mentar||1/9/13 9:57 AM|
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Sci||1/9/13 3:18 PM|
It looks like the left-hand staircase comes up inside the corner storage
It could support the idea of the metalworking upstairs if the downstairs
"dirty" workshop has it's own "dirty" staircase, seperate from the clean
one at the other end (that also happens to run past the existing
kitchenette, a "clean" area.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Solexious||1/9/13 3:26 PM|
There is only one internal set of stairs that come up from the basement at the back door lobby area.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Solexious||1/9/13 3:30 PM|
Humm, badly worded, to clarify, in that img, the set of stairs on the right lead to the back door lobby, the set on the left are a fire escape that lead out into (i think) next doors carpark.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Update on 445 Hackney Road||chrisbob12||1/9/13 4:09 PM|
David, thanks for your response. Re your extraction comments:
Thanks: I didn't know that. My take: what's the fall-out area for 'no extraction' - the user could wear a mask, and if the area were isolated for a period, most of the airborne particulates would settle or disperse. Anyway that's looking moot, since there's a move and there may be some solution to be had for that, depending.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Nigel Worsley||1/9/13 4:42 PM|
> what's the fall-out area for 'no extraction' - the user could wear a mask, and if theFine dust takes a very long time to settle, and disperses far and wide. The warm
air heating system in 445 will disperse this throughout the entire space unless
it has a very good filtration system (it appear to have none at all).
Woodworking is probably the only activity that will generate dust fine
enough to be
an issue, but fume extraction may be needed from other areas:
The laser cutter of course.
The kiln (especially if it is used for Fimo!)
Reflow oven - hardly any fumes normally, but REALLY unpleasant if
you overcook a board.
Metal finishing processes, eg. aluminium anodising.
PCB etching? Not sure about this one as I haven't used the same
Kitchen - What is a lovely cooking smell to some people is foul
pollution to others.
I am sure this list will grow a bit, I agree with previous comments
fumes being unpleasant but efficient dispersal into the general area
should be sufficient for the small scale activities of the hackspace.
|Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Update on 445 Hackney Road||Adrian Godwin||1/10/13 12:55 AM|
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 12:42 AM, Nigel Worsley <nig...@googlemail.com> wrote:The pcb etching uses hydrochloric acid. This is potentially
unpleasant, but I have only noticed any fumes when it's topped up with
full-strength new acid. Apparently it can also fume if the heater is
set too high, but I haven't seen this happen (even when it was too
I have a similar setup at home : it's in a small cupboard with minimal
ventilation, yet there has been no corrosion of the nearby copper
pipes in over 2 years. So I assume fumes are minimal under normal
|Re: [london-hack-space] Fwd: Update on 445 Hackney Road||jasper||1/11/13 3:53 PM|
On Wed, 9 Jan 2013, tom wrote:We have a load of orange led strip. enough to make 9 x 14 segment
starburst displays, each 1.6m high (? i think i might have the math wrong
there, but pretty big anyway).
Which would give us a nice scrolling/animated/dynamic sign