APE: Lojban haiku

Showing 1-27 of 27 messages
APE: Lojban haiku aionys 1/6/13 4:17 AM
Firstly, for anyone who's interested in Haiku in general, there's a huge amount of (English) Haiku at http://www.haiku.com/

So, this week's APE is to write a haiku in Lojban.

Haiku are normally about nature, but all we're going to care about is that it's in three lines; a line of 5 syllables, a line of 7 syllables, and a final line of 5 syllables.

Lojban seems to me to be a language especially suited to haiku, so I imagine this APE will be especially fun one.

I made the effort of making both the English translation and the Lojban be haiku,  but the rest of you don't have to if the English is difficult to fit into haiku:

co'a lo vensa
lo cifxrula ba banro
ja'e lo nunmle

when the spring begins
the flower buds will blossom
and so comes beauty

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
Re: [lojban-beginners] APE: Lojban haiku v4hn 1/6/13 7:34 AM
On Sun, Jan 06, 2013 at 05:17:04AM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> So, this week's APE is to write a haiku in Lojban.

That's a nice one!

I remember there was a discussion about whether or not {.i}
is needed in lyrics/poems, but I don't remember the outcome.

mi pu finti di'e

mi filfi'i dei
.i ku'i narjmi fi dei
.i lornunkalte

It's inspired by my favorite english haiku:

Haikus are easy.
But sometimes they don't make sense.
Refrigerator


v4hn
Re: [lojban-beginners] APE: Lojban haiku aionys 1/6/13 8:17 AM
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 8:34 AM, v4hn <m...@v4hn.de> wrote:
On Sun, Jan 06, 2013 at 05:17:04AM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> So, this week's APE is to write a haiku in Lojban.

That's a nice one!

I remember there was a discussion about whether or not {.i}
is needed in lyrics/poems, but I don't remember the outcome.

I don't either, but mine is a single jufra, so it doesn't bother me either way.
 
mi pu finti di'e

mi filfi'i dei
.i ku'i narjmi fi dei
.i lornunkalte

I made this with ease.
But I don't understand it.
Hunting of foxes.

Very nice.
 
It's inspired by my favorite english haiku:

Haikus are easy.
But sometimes they don't make sense.
Refrigerator


v4hn


Re: [lojban-beginners] APE: Lojban haiku tsani 1/6/13 8:44 AM
On 6 January 2013 07:17, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Firstly, for anyone who's interested in Haiku in general, there's a huge
> amount of (English) Haiku at http://www.haiku.com/
>
> So, this week's APE is to write a haiku in Lojban.
>
> Haiku are normally about nature, but all we're going to care about is that
> it's in three lines; a line of 5 syllables, a line of 7 syllables, and a
> final line of 5 syllables.
>
> Lojban seems to me to be a language especially suited to haiku, so I imagine
> this APE will be especially fun one.
>
> I made the effort of making both the English translation and the Lojban be
> haiku,  but the rest of you don't have to if the English is difficult to fit
> into haiku:
>
> co'a lo vensa
> lo cifxrula ba banro
> ja'e lo nunmle
>
> when the spring begins
> the flower buds will blossom
> and so comes beauty
>

It looks like you're using the old interpretation of ZAhO, namely
{za'o lo nu broda} -> {ca lo nu za'e broda}, but everyone on IRC these
days is using another interpretation, namely {broda za'o lo nu brode}
-> {za'o broda ca lo nu brode}, which has the advantage of not
implicitly modifying the contents of the tagged sumti (which no other
tags do). With the common interpretation of ZAhO, your haiku reads
slightly differently:
"In the spring,
The flower buds begin to bloom,
So there is beauty."

As for my haiku :p This is one I came up with quite a while ago in high school:
.i termu'eske
zdakemkulgu'a .oi sai
sei ca sipydji

"Doing physics,
homework, I complain,
while wanting to sleep."

Needless to say, it translates rather poorly. During a few excessively
boring classes, I had filled a few pages with haiku, but alas, I'm
almost certain I've lost them.

.i lo nu jmive
cu se sanga gi'e nai
se crezenzu'e

"To be alive,
is a song, and not
practiced."

(This is adapted from the musical episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer
>_>; the original goes "Life's a song you don't get to rehearse.")

.i fi lo tricu
fa lo pezli cu farlu
lo rarna dimna

"From a tree,
A leaf falls,
to it's natural fate."

Anyway, writing haiku in Lojban is indeed extremely easy, but writing
*good* haiku in any language, not so much :p

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o
Re: [lojban-beginners] APE: Lojban haiku aionys 1/6/13 8:56 AM

This is not the place for this. I've moved this discussion to the main list where it belongs.
 

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Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku aionys 1/7/13 6:42 AM
coi manti

It's nice to see new people joining in on these.

Further, not only do I see nothing wrong with your haiku, I think that they are very good from an artistic standpoint. I especially like the second one.

It's too bad that "arrive" doesn't have a gismu, because tolyli'a is too many syllables and klama is potentially confusing, but that's a fault of the language, not the author.

On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 6:52 AM, manti <wakkaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
Felt as though I should try writing a few, probably messed something up seeing as this is pretty much my first Lojban ever, but whatever.

loi so'i cribe
cu denpa lo nu klama
fa lo rau finpe

The many bears
wait for the coming
of enough fish

doi la .skami. .io
do gasnu .uanai ma .i
do spofu gau do

Mr. Computer
What are you doing?
You're breaking yourself


On Sunday, January 6, 2013 6:17:04 AM UTC-6, aionys wrote:
Firstly, for anyone who's interested in Haiku in general, there's a huge amount of (English) Haiku at http://www.haiku.com/

So, this week's APE is to write a haiku in Lojban.

Haiku are normally about nature, but all we're going to care about is that it's in three lines; a line of 5 syllables, a line of 7 syllables, and a final line of 5 syllables.

Lojban seems to me to be a language especially suited to haiku, so I imagine this APE will be especially fun one.

I made the effort of making both the English translation and the Lojban be haiku,  but the rest of you don't have to if the English is difficult to fit into haiku:

co'a lo vensa
lo cifxrula ba banro
ja'e lo nunmle

when the spring begins
the flower buds will blossom
and so comes beauty

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku tsani 1/7/13 9:17 AM
doi la manti, For your first Lojban ever, this is great :)

On 7 January 2013 08:52, manti <wakkaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> doi la .skami. .io
> do gasnu .uanai ma .i
> do spofu gau do

Despite {skami} being used as a name, it doesn't need dots (denpa bu)
around it because it is a selbri. Only cmevla, like {.skamis.} require
dots on both sides.
Re: APE: Lojban haiku manti 1/7/13 12:58 PM
ki'ecoi la .aionys. .e la tsani

I had forgotten that you only need the pauses before and after for cmene.
Also I decided to write another because this is a fun/good way to learn/practice some Lojban.

lo si'o ciska
lo ro fa'orma'o cu
xanri fu'inai

The concept of writing
every terminator
is difficult to imagine


On Sunday, January 6, 2013 6:17:04 AM UTC-6, aionys wrote:
Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku selpa'i 1/7/13 1:09 PM
dei mi se jmina
la smani pemcrxaiku
.i ju te jimpe

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku aionys 1/7/13 1:22 PM
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 1:58 PM, manti <wakkaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
ki'ecoi la .aionys. .e la tsani

You don't need the coi there, unless you meant to say "Thanks and hello, aionys and tsani", of course.
 
I had forgotten that you only need the pauses before and after for cmene.
Also I decided to write another because this is a fun/good way to learn/practice some Lojban.

lo si'o ciska
lo ro fa'orma'o cu
xanri fu'inai

The concept of writing
every terminator
is difficult to imagine

Okay, first, I literally laughed when I read this one.

A note though: fu'inai is an attitudinal, which means you have that attitude about whatever it is attaching to. So, you're not saying that it's difficult to imagine, but rather that you specifically have a difficult attitude towards imagining it. This is difficult to explain since we don't have an equivalent word in English.

Okay, so I'll try with one we do have a word for: {do gleki.iu} is "You're happy [Happiness!]", or more long winded, "You're happy [<-- I'm happy about this]".

I'd suggest {narfrili xanri} if you meant the former.
 
On Sunday, January 6, 2013 6:17:04 AM UTC-6, aionys wrote:
Firstly, for anyone who's interested in Haiku in general, there's a huge amount of (English) Haiku at http://www.haiku.com/

So, this week's APE is to write a haiku in Lojban.

Haiku are normally about nature, but all we're going to care about is that it's in three lines; a line of 5 syllables, a line of 7 syllables, and a final line of 5 syllables.

Lojban seems to me to be a language especially suited to haiku, so I imagine this APE will be especially fun one.

I made the effort of making both the English translation and the Lojban be haiku,  but the rest of you don't have to if the English is difficult to fit into haiku:

co'a lo vensa
lo cifxrula ba banro
ja'e lo nunmle

when the spring begins
the flower buds will blossom
and so comes beauty

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku aionys 1/7/13 1:27 PM
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 2:09 PM, selpa'i <m...@plasmatix.com> wrote:
dei mi se jmina
la smani pemcrxaiku
.i ju te jimpe

.i lu la smani pemcrxaiku li'u.ianai .i do fekpre zo'o
 
mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

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Re: APE: Lojban haiku manti 1/7/13 3:19 PM
I don't know how to quote people, so...

From what I can tell {narfrili xanri} is something closer to what I meant, so thank you for that.


On Sunday, January 6, 2013 6:17:04 AM UTC-6, aionys wrote:
Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku aionys 1/7/13 5:12 PM
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 4:19 PM, manti <wakkaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know how to quote people, so...

From what I can tell {narfrili xanri} is something closer to what I meant, so thank you for that.

Typically you just reply to the message you want to quote and your mail program does the all the work.

In Gmail, you can also quote only part of a message by highlighting the part you want to quote before pressing "Reply". This may or may not be true with other mailers as well.

On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 1:58 PM, manti <wakkaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
ki'ecoi la .aionys. .e la tsani

You don't need the coi there, unless you meant to say "Thanks and hello, aionys and tsani", of course.
 
I had forgotten that you only need the pauses before and after for cmene.
Also I decided to write another because this is a fun/good way to learn/practice some Lojban.

lo si'o ciska
lo ro fa'orma'o cu
xanri fu'inai

The concept of writing
every terminator
is difficult to imagine

Okay, first, I literally laughed when I read this one.

A note though: fu'inai is an attitudinal, which means you have that attitude about whatever it is attaching to. So, you're not saying that it's difficult to imagine, but rather that you specifically have a difficult attitude towards imagining it. This is difficult to explain since we don't have an equivalent word in English.

Okay, so I'll try with one we do have a word for: {do gleki.iu} is "You're happy [Happiness!]", or more long winded, "You're happy [<-- I'm happy about this]".

And I just now realized I'd dyslexia-fied .ui

.iu is love, .ui is happiness. Sorry for the confusion, everyone.
Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku manti 1/8/13 10:42 AM
On Monday, January 7, 2013 7:12:32 PM UTC-6, aionys wrote:
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 4:19 PM, manti <wakkaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know how to quote people, so...

From what I can tell {narfrili xanri} is something closer to what I meant, so thank you for that.

Typically you just reply to the message you want to quote and your mail program does the all the work.

In Gmail, you can also quote only part of a message by highlighting the part you want to quote before pressing "Reply". This may or may not be true with other mailers as well.

All right, thank you again.

Also; another haiku.

lo pa karce cu
se na'e frili citka
lo mlatu vau .ia

A car
is not easy to eat
for cats, I believe

...Yeah, I dunno.
Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku aionys 1/8/13 5:27 PM
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 11:42 AM, manti <wakkaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, January 7, 2013 7:12:32 PM UTC-6, aionys wrote:
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 4:19 PM, manti <wakkaw...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't know how to quote people, so...

From what I can tell {narfrili xanri} is something closer to what I meant, so thank you for that.

Typically you just reply to the message you want to quote and your mail program does the all the work.

In Gmail, you can also quote only part of a message by highlighting the part you want to quote before pressing "Reply". This may or may not be true with other mailers as well.

All right, thank you again.

Sure thing.
 
Also; another haiku.

lo pa karce cu
se na'e frili citka
lo mlatu vau .ia

A car
is not easy to eat
for cats, I believe

...Yeah, I dunno.

Well, um, that is certainly... imaginative. It made me laugh, so that's good. :) 

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Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku tsani 1/9/13 6:35 AM
.i la manti cu cusku di'e
> Also; another haiku.
>
> lo pa karce cu
> se na'e frili citka
> lo mlatu vau .ia

{se} only modifies the first thing on the right that constitutes a
valid selbri, which would be {na'e frili}. Thus, your haiku
accidentally means "Cars eat cats uneasily, I believe," which is even
funnier :) To fix this, you'd need to move the {se} directly before
{citka}. If meter weren't important, you could use a {ke} bracket like
this to make {se} scope over the whole tanru: {se ke na'e frili
citka}.
Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku manti 1/9/13 7:49 AM

mi lo nu ciska dei cu bilga lo su'u cilre fi la .lojban.
.i ki'e la tsani ku ciksi lo selvla be zo se
.i mi na'e djuno zo'e zo se

What I attempted to say:

I felt as though I should write this is Lojban for practice.
Thank you Tsani for pointing out the way se works.
I had no idea it worked like that.
Re: [lojban-beginners] APE: Lojban haiku Pierre Abbat 1/9/13 10:16 PM
lo blabi snime
lo bisli cu se calku
secau lo karce

Atop the white snow
An icy crust covers in
A carless landscape.

Pierre
--
.i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do
.ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga
.icu'u la ma'atman.

Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku Annie 1/11/13 2:24 PM
what's the difference between something being difficult and just having a difficult attitude tward it? isn't the word "difffficult" an oppionated word, since what's difficult for one person may not be for another?

Sent from my iPod





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Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku Ross Ogilvie 1/12/13 3:05 AM
It's more about the sentence structure and assertion. When you say "difficult to imagine", the main assertion is about the difficulty. In the sentence {lo si'o ciska lo ro fa'oma'o cu xanri} the main assertion (the selbri) is about imagining (xanri). Adding fu'inai after xanri is like huffing to indicate that you find the imaging is difficult.

mu'o mi'e ros

On 12 January 2013 09:24, Annie <park....@asb.gaggle.net> wrote:
e


Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku Annie 1/12/13 10:35 AM
what exactly is the difference between difficult to imagine and the imagining being difficult?

Sent from my iPod
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Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku Ross Ogilvie 1/12/13 6:16 PM

"difficult to imagine" is one assertion
The other one is first asserting that it is being imagined, and then also saying you feeling that the imagining is difficult.

Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku aionys 1/12/13 6:18 PM
On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Annie <park....@asb.gaggle.net> wrote:
what exactly is the difference between difficult to imagine and the imagining being difficult?

Firstly, "zo'e xanri fu'inai" doesn't mean "zo'e is difficult to imagine", nor does it mean "imagining zo'e is difficult". What it means is "zo'e is imagined (by something) (, and the attitude I have about that is 'difficult')."

"zo'e xanri narfrili" means "zo'e is imagined type-of difficult", and does mean "zo'e is difficult to imagine" and "imagining zo'e is difficult".

This is rather difficult to explain because English doesn't have a word that means the same thing fu'i means. fu'i doesn't mean that something is easy or hard (fu'inai), it means that person who is speaking has the attitude of easy or hard.

This is why I used a UI we actually have a word for in English: happiness.

"do gleki" means "You're happy". "do gleki.ui" means "You're happy (, and the attitude I have about that is 'happy')." Or, in other words, "I'm happy that you're happy."
 


Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku aionys 1/12/13 6:23 PM
On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 7:16 PM, Ross Ogilvie <ro...@rossogilvie.id.au> wrote:

"difficult to imagine" is one assertion
The other one is first asserting that it is being imagined, and then also saying you feeling that the imagining is difficult.

No. UI do not assert anything. They merely express the attitude of the speaker. This is why they are called "attitudinals". Their purpose is to easily convey the current emotional mindset of the speaker.
 


Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku aionys 1/12/13 6:24 PM
On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 7:16 PM, Ross Ogilvie <ro...@rossogilvie.id.au> wrote:

"difficult to imagine" is one assertion
The other one is first asserting that it is being imagined, and then also saying you feeling that the imagining is difficult.

No. UI do not assert anything. They merely express the attitude of the speaker. This is why they are called "attitudinals". Their purpose is to easily convey the current emotional mindset of the speaker.

... as it pertains to what the speaker is saying.

Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku Ian Johnson 1/13/13 12:19 AM
This depends significantly on the UI in question, as the BPFK pages on this subject make clear. The most important thing that makes UI truth-functionally relevant is whether an attitudinal is realis or irrealis. {ui} is realis; when you say {broda ui} you still claim {broda} and are saying you're happy about it. {.a'o} is irrealis; when you say {broda .a'o} you don't claim {broda}, you say you hope that {broda} happens without saying whether it does.

Note that unlike in the ma'oste, as I recall every UI is explicitly described as realis/irrealis on their BPFK page, perhaps with some exceptions in the form of obviously-realis words like {ui}.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 9:23 PM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 7:16 PM, Ross Ogilvie <ro...@rossogilvie.id.au> wrote:

"difficult to imagine" is one assertion
The other one is first asserting that it is being imagined, and then also saying you feeling that the imagining is difficult.

No. UI do not assert anything. They merely express the attitude of the speaker. This is why they are called "attitudinals". Their purpose is to easily convey the current emotional mindset of the speaker.
 
On 13/01/2013 12:48 PM, "Annie" <park....@asb.gaggle.net> wrote:
what exactly is the difference between difficult to imagine and the imagining being difficult?

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 12, 2013, at 5:05 AM, Ross Ogilvie <ro...@rossogilvie.id.au> wrote:

It's more about the sentence structure and assertion. When you say "difficult to imagine", the main assertion is about the difficulty. In the sentence {lo si'o ciska lo ro fa'oma'o cu xanri} the main assertion (the selbri) is about imagining (xanri). Adding fu'inai after xanri is like huffing to indicate that you find the imaging is difficult.

mu'o mi'e ros

On 12 January 2013 09:24, Annie <park....@asb.gaggle.net> wrote:
e


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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku Michael Turniansky 1/25/13 8:27 AM
  We do actually have a word/words in English that translates as "fu'inai": Oof! Grrrr!, etc...

  But back to pemcrxaiku

  I had previously done two lojban haiku (although never before translated into English):

lo xekri boxfo
co vofli cu murta fe
lo manku tsani

(The flying black sheet
 Is a curtain obscuring
 The darkened heavens.)

(composed when I saw huge numbers of crows flying overhead)

 And

lo ko selsne cu
cripu fi lo prulamdei
ro lo bavlamdei

(Become the dreamer
Of spans between yesterday
And all tomorrows)

  But, since is a new project, I will not shirk from writing a new one.

le'e po'onai 
labnypre cu se catra
lei rijno danti

(Not only werewolves
 Have their existence ended 
 By silver bullets.)

               --gejyspa
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