|About The Karma Seeker by Stefan G. Meyer (with extracts)||Santim Vah||5/10/13 6:04 AM|
I recently picked up a copy of "The Karma Seeker" by Stefan G. Meyer published in Nov. 2012.
It was mentioned here on a.r.e. not long ago.
This is the Amazon book url
There's a description of the book and info about the author on Amazon
And this link is to Stefan's own website
I found the book really easy to read, interesting, and hard to put down. It's a fictionalised account of some of 'Kips' real-life personal experiences, inner and outer, including a series of fascinating private conversations with a number of long term 'fictional/unnamed' Initiates of The League. The 'story' about 'Kip's dilemma' moves along quite well, is easy to follow and quite intriguing. The ending is excellent.
One aspect I really liked about the book was that it gives the reader an inside seat as the observer of the story unfolding where they are not being told what is the right answer. Kip speaks about what happens from the first person and only for himself. The story teller takes a no holds barred approach to describing the issues and the emotional reactions that arise for him and how he deals with them.
To me the book addresses some common contemporary issues that many who have a been a part of a spiritual path like The League for some time may have to face.
Here are a few extracts from the book which might give a sense of the main subject matter and writing style:
“So he’s implying that that to leave the League is to automatically lose that higher state of consciousness?” George asked. “Exactly,” I replied.
The statement bothered me tremendously. I was aware that the spiritual light could go out in people. I’d seen it happen, and even felt it in myself many times. Yet my very vulnerability to this suggestion also made me aware how heavy-handed it was.
“Here’s another one,” I added, brandishing another newsletter in my hand. “He’s comparing the League to a henhouse, and says it’s the responsibility of the chickens to keep out the foxes.” “What does that mean?” “He’s encouraging the members to inform on anyone they think is deviating from the League teachings.” I shook my head in disgust. I realized the fact that this stuff made me so angry was proof I was still attached to the League President as a spiritual authority, but I couldn’t help it. That belief had been bred into me. The more skeptical I became toward the League President, the more these vestiges of belief were turning him into an adversary. I felt like we were two boxes squared off against each other in the ring. Something had to give.
A subsequent League newsletter contained even more provocative remarks by the President. This time, he quoted Andreas Leo to the effect that so long as the seeker could not realize the form of the Supreme Being within himself, he should contemplate the form of the living Master as such. He went on to declare that some League initiates were not initiates at all, because they didn’t understand the role of the Master as an expression of the Force Itself. He criticized these people for their ignorance of how the Force worked, their aloof attitude toward plans to reach people with the League teachings, and their lack of availability to serve on missionary teams, to lead discussion groups, or even to privately tell people about the League.
He further castigated those who failed to practice their daily contemplation, or to read the holy writings of the League, as well as those who resisted its hierarchical structure. I was more shocked by the tone of the article than by any I had yet read. It seemed to ignore the real thrust of what Andreas Leo had said, which was that the ultimate aim was for the seeker to realize the Supreme Being within himself. Instead of speaking to this goal, the President was openly encouraging League members to worship him.
His criticism of the initiates’ lack of participation in spreading the League teachings was also an utter contrast to Andreas Leo, who had left it up to his followers to decide whether they wanted to work for the salvation of others, as well as their own. This type of browbeating didn’t in any way reflect the state of consciousness I expected of a true Master. Finally, his suggestion that those who didn’t view him as an expression of the Force Itself were not initiates at all struck right at my heart. If that was the case, he was invalidating all my initiations. He was saying that all the years I had spent in the League counted for nothing! "
Meyer, Stefan G. (2012-05-08). The Karma Seeker (pp. 256-257). Spiritual Traveler Press. Kindle Edition.
"I went back to Andreas Leo’s works, and found a passage that seemed to confirm my suspicions about the League President. Leo said that men had endured great hardship for a tiny glimpse of heaven. Then they had usurped their own vision in an attempt to codify, evangelize, and perpetuate it. Such men, he stated, were mere fakers, who pretended to have undergone the profound experience of God, and drew upon the experiences of real mystics in the hope of conveying a sense of authenticity. He added that all preachers and sages who had the odor of philosophy, religion, and knowledge were nothing of the kind, and admonished the seeker to look only within his own self for truth.
I thought back to years before when I had read the letter by the disgraced former President trying to recruit me into his fold and instantly recognized his diminished state of consciousness. I could not say with certainty that what Andreas Leo was saying in these pages applied to the current President. All I knew was how I felt when I read this passage in the newsletter and compared it to Leo’s writings. Leo’s words were like fireworks that lit up the sky for me at night, while the President’s words were like dust in my mouth, in my eyes, in my ears, in my brain.
Shortly after this, I had a dream that reflected my critical assessment of the League President. The scene unfolded at a League conference. I was sitting at a table with several initiates, most of whom were approximately my age and had joined the League at roughly the same time. With us was a young man who was saying that he couldn’t understand why the older members were so lacking in motivation, why they were always moaning about the way the League was back in the good old days. Suddenly, I realized that this young man was the League President himself. At this point, I woke up, the interpretation staring me in the face. The President’s youthful appearance implied that he had been living for years in an ivory tower, shielded from what was really going on in the group, and this had left him metaphorically unmarked by the passage of time."
Meyer, Stefan G. (2012-05-08). The Karma Seeker (pp. 257-258). Spiritual Traveler Press. Kindle Edition.
"A few weeks later, I came across an independent chat room on the Internet made up of members of the League’s Inner Circle. Because it had no formal affiliation with the League, there was more latitude for people to express themselves critically, and I began to read the various posts that appeared on it with regularity. One day, the discussion turned to the exposé that had originally challenged the veracity of Andreas Leo’s writings.
It turned out that the book had actually gone further, accusing the current League President of covering up Leo’s errors and holding on to his position of power. The writer claimed to have been visited by the Masters of the Invisible Hierarchy, who told him that the League President had outstayed his rightful tenure as the living Master. Most of the discussion in the chat room was similar to that which Dee Hughes’s claims had generated, revolving around the commonly held assumption that the author of this book had simply been seeing his own projections. By now, however, skepticism had evolved to the point where I felt moved to write the moderator privately."
Meyer, Stefan G. (2012-05-08). The Karma Seeker (p. 259). Spiritual Traveler Press. Kindle Edition.
"My message brought a detailed response from the moderator. “I’d like to encourage you to accept your inner recognition of the League President,” he wrote. “You seem to have considered this long and hard, and looked deeply into yourself. In the end, we simply need to accept what we know to be true. This phenomenon is nothing new, and is in fact quite common down through history. The choice of the living Master is not decided by who is the leader of the outer organization. It’s a decision made through the inner authority of the spiritual hierarchy.
When it’s time for a new Master, he simply accepts this spiritual authority and begins working in this role. That doesn’t mean that the people are aware of the change. In most cases, they aren’t. The Master often remains hidden. Those who follow the Path must always be looking to see who the current Master is, and they must discover this themselves. Following the Path isn’t just a matter of finding the Master once in a lifetime, and never having to look again.
“Everyone comes into this world to learn, and this includes the Masters. The current League President told me early on that he made mistakes. After he became the living Master, he said that his predecessor tried to hang onto his position too long, and that he would never make that error. When the time came, he would pass on his spiritual authority to someone else. Years later, he told me he had changed his mind, that he would go out with his boots on, and only pass on the leadership of the League organization when he died. He didn’t explain his reason for this change, but I had the sense that it had to do with his perception that the President who followed him would not be equal to him."
Meyer, Stefan G. (2012-05-08). The Karma Seeker (pp. 260-261). Spiritual Traveler Press. Kindle Edition.
“I think that when Leo first brought the League teachings into the open, he was simply trying to express the larger reality behind all of life. It represented a personal exploration on his part, as much as anything. Later on, I think he realized that there was no one to take his place. He knew that his time was almost up, but those who might be his successors couldn’t carry the teaching forward. That’s when he began to drop hints that the next League President wouldn’t be the True Master. In fact, it would be many years before the next living Master made his appearance, and before then there would be several more League Presidents.
“What I think he was trying to do was to prevent people from taking on a role that would ruin them spiritually. Yet his attempts to avoid these troubles were of no avail. Those who followed him still saw the living Master as a role, and expected the League President to live according to that role as they thought Leo had defined it. This included those who would become his successors. All this means is that this is their lesson, and it in turn becomes part of the lesson that so many others must learn. But it isn’t the true reality of the Path that Leo was talking about.
“The reality of that Path is that it’s an inner journey, independent of the machinery of the League. The best thing we can do is to stay away from the politics of it all, to give no thought to names and titles, to live only in the presence of the Force, and remain in constant dialogue with it."
Meyer, Stefan G. (2012-05-08). The Karma Seeker (pp. 261-262). Spiritual Traveler Press. Kindle Edition.
The chat room moderator’s words were immensely liberating to me. I felt that he was making an important distinction. As the living Master, the League President had the power to connect sincere souls with the Sound Current and put them on the path back to God. Once bestowed, this power was his until he passed away or voluntarily relinquished it. But the true Master was something quite different. It was a state of consciousness, which didn’t depend on any title or position, but went where it willed, settling upon that individual who was most worthy of it.
Meyer, Stefan G. (2012-05-08). The Karma Seeker (p. 262). Spiritual Traveler Press. Kindle Edition.
“Well, you could argue that it’s all for the best,” George replied. “Eventually, we’d all have to stand on our own two feet, anyway. We’re all being forced to get our heads out of the clouds. We’re scratching for a living, trying to make ends meet, and it’s bringing out our creativity. We have nothing to depend on but our own labor, our own imagination, and our own faith. But there’s something very liberating in that. You could say that the President, by clinging to his title, has actually been helping us. In that case, you’d have to admit that he’s done his job very well.”
“That’s true,” I agreed, struck by the irony of this scenario. “What if he gave up his position, and some new Master came along who was dynamic and energetic, and made us all feel good? Well, that would be nice. It would be like the good old days. But do we really need that? Once we’ve grown up, do we really need to relive our childhood? I guess, in the end, it all boils down to the same thing. Whether he’s the true Master or not doesn’t really make a difference. The only thing that matters is the attitude that you carry inside you. There’s no point in being resentful. It is what it is.”
With that, all the anger I had generated on the road seemed to dissipate. My conflict with the League President no longer seemed of any consequence. What was happening to the League was the way with all spiritual groups. They began with an infusion of energy, but then they became structured and consolidated. They were built to defend themselves."
Meyer, Stefan G. (2012-05-08). The Karma Seeker (p. 266). Spiritual Traveler Press. Kindle Edition.
"I could understand the logic behind her decision. If the League President, as the living Master, still retained the power to connect souls up with the Force, then one had to give deference to the office, if not to the man. That’s why I no longer questioned how the President ran the outer organization. It was his responsibility as well as his power and authority."
Meyer, Stefan G. (2012-05-08). The Karma Seeker (p. 270). Spiritual Traveler Press. Kindle Edition.
|Re: About The Karma Seeker by Stefan G. Meyer (with extracts)||Santim Vah||5/10/13 7:23 PM|
Material like this can sometimes raise all kinds of subsequent questions. Then again others seem to only skim over things and rush to judgement either shaking their head or nodding their head and moving on as fast as they can.
Here's something that raises a question or two to me.
RE "Years later, he told me he had changed his mind, that he would go out with his boots on, and only pass on the leadership of the League organization when he died. He didn’t explain his reason for this change,..."
OK so this is supposed to be a "private HI chat room moderator" speaking here about his personal conversation with the current President. I want to know what the chat room moderator knows.
"Years later .." When exactly was this supposedly said by the current President?
Why was the current President telling the HI chat room moderator that he had changed his mind at this exact time?
How did this "conversation" or perhaps series of letters between the two come about and why that THIS subject matter would arise in dialogue?
Such statements like this don't simply drop out of the sky for no reason. There must be more to this conversation between the HI chat room moderator and the current President that has been "repeated" here. I'd like to know the WHOLE story, and be able read the full dialogue in the letters for myself so I can have an EQUAL right see exactly the ORIGINAL CONTEXT in which these comments were made.
Why was the current President telling the HI chat room moderator privately that the President would only pass on the leadership of the League organization when he died???
What business was this of the chat room moderator, and why haven't all other HIs and members been given the same information especially IF it is actually true what is being "reported here" by the HI chat room moderator?
Personally, I would like to see some HARD EVIDENCE that what is being reported here was actually said or written by the current League President.
So even if "He didn’t explain his reason for this change,..." there must have a been a reason for saying what he did say to this HI chat room moderator.
More than that .. there MUST be a reason why the HI chat room moderator is saying these things privately to Kip the karma seeker and keeping it secret from everyone else.
Ah, the details .... :-)
|unk...@googlegroups.com||5/10/13 8:10 PM||<This message has been deleted.>|
|Re: About The Karma Seeker by Stefan G. Meyer (with extracts)||Santim Vah||5/11/13 5:58 PM|
RE as said by the HI Chat Room Moderator
IOW a League HI Chat Room Moderator is telling Kip that the current League President isn't really the current master, there's a new one. and he's "hidden".
No biggy, the League HI Chat Room Moderator sees no ethical conflict in this at all. AS a HI member of the League who does not acknowledge the given "status" of the current league master and yet remains a member. Wow. That's some cognitive dissonance and rationalisation going on here.
He's also saying that the outer master does not appoint his successor, despite what the doctrine & the current president actually says. He's already been usurped iow.
That the "real master" might be like Leo in Journey to the Far East story by Herman Hesse, working as a humble porter in the group. Clearly the HI chat room moderator believes he knows who the "real master" is, otherwise he wouldn't know he existed, right?
Who would have known that Andreas Leo existed if he didn't advertise in Orion Magazine and the New Cosmic Star? Andreas and his "followers/initiates" didn't keep it a secret, so how come the HI Chat Room Moderator is keeping this "new real master" secret from everyone else?
Who gave him the right to decide for others who knows and who doesn't?
"The best thing we can do is to stay away from the politics of it all..."
I suspect that this HI chat room moderator hasn't been staying away from the politics of it all ... :)
RE ".... but I had the sense that it had to do with his perception that the President who followed him would not be equal to him."
The same feelings the prior president supposedly had.
the same feelings that the founder Andreas Leo supposedly had.
three times makes a pattern & a habit.
I think the HI Chat room moderator makes things up out of thin air and cherry-picks selected quotes/interpretations of Andreas Leo to suit his own personal belief system and place in the world.
RE “The reality of that Path is that it’s an inner journey, independent of the machinery of the League."
That's NOT what The League or Andreas Leo says. The "machinery" of the League IS the current Master granting Initiations etc etc etc
RE “I think that when Leo first brought the League teachings into the open, he was simply trying to express the larger reality behind all of life. It represented a personal exploration on his part, as much as anything."
That's an assumption, an opinion. The league teachings suggest something different.
RE "He knew that his time was almost up, but those who might be his successors couldn’t carry the teaching forward."
Assumption ... opinion.
RE "That’s when he began to drop hints that the next League President wouldn’t be the True Master."
Assumption ... Opinion.
RE "In fact, it would be many years before the next living Master made his appearance, and before then there would be several more League Presidents."
Assumption .. Opinion .. plus cherry-picking what is said in The (conflicting) League teachings. ie The current League outer master is the current inner master, real master too. Choosing to ignore that Andreas Leo said specifically the very same thing!!!
RE “What I think he was trying to do was to prevent people from taking on a role that would ruin them spiritually. Yet his attempts to avoid these troubles were of no avail."
Assumption .. opinion .. belief ... and based on what "evidence"? It's made up out of thin air like a thought bubble.
What is being said here is utterly incongruous. It cannot be true and co-exist in the same space.
It's impossible to know where the mythology ends and the mythology begins here.
Things like this matter, imho, so it's best to be careful about what you're reading and what's really being said.
One of the key things that Kip says in the story is :
Remember that! :-)
|Re: About The Karma Seeker by Stefan G. Meyer (with extracts)||Santim Vah||5/11/13 6:37 PM|
Anyway, read the book for yourself, it's pretty good and timely imho. :-)
|Re: About The Karma Seeker by Stefan G. Meyer (with extracts)||Santim Vah||5/13/13 4:25 AM|
On Friday, May 10, 2013 11:04:33 PM UTC+10, Santim Vah wrote:
RE the HI Chat Room Moderator said:That's an interesting theory. I wonder where he gets it from?
I especially wonder what he actually means by the phrase "It [the League teachings] represented a personal exploration on his [Andreas Leos] part..." A curious turn of phrase that, a 'personal exploration'. What on earth could he mean by that?
Because I thought the theory was that Andreas Leo wrote the material dictated to him by the adepts of the spiritual hierarchy about the League teachings who told him what to write and what to teach. That it was this hierarchy which was the larger reality behind all life and so he started to tell people about it and what they had 'taught him' and about places they had 'taken him' to.
How many theories are there I wonder.
|Re: About The Karma Seeker by Stefan G. Meyer (with extracts)||Etznab||5/15/13 1:23 PM|
I think they need to do a documentary about Eckankar on History Channel. One conducted by independent researchers. Maybe we can write to them?
|Re: About The Karma Seeker by Stefan G. Meyer (with extracts)||Santim Vah||6/21/13 5:14 PM|
It's now June 22nd 2013, thirty years since June 22nd 1983 when things were really heating up in the Eckankar Head Office then located in San Diego CA.
It's also fifty years since June 22nd 1963 when things were coming to a head in Seattle WA too.
Paul Twitchell was arranging with his ex-work colleague and friend Jack Jarvis of the Seattle-Post Intelligencer to publish an article about him titled "Paul Twitchell, Man of Parts" in early July.
June 22nd 1963 was also about 3 weeks before Paul concluded his LTG book 2 letters Gail, and began to make arrangements with Ruhani Satsang administrators for her to be Initiated by Kirpal Singh in San Francisco later that year on 2nd December during his 63/64 lecture tour of the USA.
In Ruhani Satsang, one couldn't simply turn up at a hall and expect to be Initiated by the living Master of the day. It just didn't work like that.
Worldwide lecture tours by Kirpal Singh or any other master were not arranged at the last minute but way ahead of time. By June 1963 all Initiates and other people close to Ruhani had confirmation that the tour was going ahead and a more detailed schedule within each country was being arranged.
So naturally Paul Twitchell was one such person who knew about this forthcoming tour. The first one since Paul himself had received Initiation from Kirpal Singh himself at Washington DC in Sept. 1955.
Coincidently several days later Paul's formal separation/desertion from Camille his first wife came into effect on 1st Oct 1955 after a final meeting between each other.
This appears to be what happened when according to known historical records and reports.
RE: How many theories are there I wonder.
Sally Plimpton was an initiate who had been prominent in the League for years, but was no longer an active member. She had occasionally made appearances in the (HI) chat room, so I had her e-mail address. I wrote her a long letter, telling her about my dilemma.
“Thanks for writing,” she replied. “I want you to know that I fully understand your attitude toward the League and its President. On the Path, we’ll always find those whose concepts differ from ours, and it’s simply the way of the world for them to make us feel that we’re wrong or misguided. These people have a lot invested in reining in our free spirits, and if we hold them in high respect, we can unwittingly unordain ourselves."
“The only thing I don’t understand,” she added “is what you hope to accomplish with this book. The goal of the Path is to lead the student into becoming his own master. Once that has taken place, he is free and becomes a co-worker with God. But what the teacher doesn’t say is that no one is available to tell the student when he has reached that point. Only the initiate knows. And no one will make this step easy for him. He will have to seize it, knowing full well that the only way he knows this is the truth is that nothing else feels right to him."
Meyer, Stefan G. (2012-05-08). The Karma Seeker (p. 275). Spiritual Traveler Press. Kindle Edition.
“And that’s kind of wonderful, because the fact that he knows this means that the League’s program of spiritual instruction worked as promised, although not as he thought it would. Once the initiate accepts the fact of his own mastership, he has to laugh, because he sees that even the things that upset him greatly were pushing him to his realization. Then he’s no longer angry."
"He’s able to let go and rejoice in his freedom. But it wouldn’t be right to write that in a book, because that would short-circuit the experience for him. He has to live it.”
As I read this reply, I thought it was truly wonderful, but when I got to the end I was bewildered. What did Sally mean when she said the book would short-circuit a person’s experience? She seemed to be referring not to me as a writer, but to someone who might read my book.
It was another version of the Law of Silence, the idea that some things could not be written or said. According to her, the spiritual Path was a paradox. The notion of being bound to the Master in perpetuity was a smokescreen, a false test that concealed the true test of spiritual independence. But this secret had to be kept. It couldn’t be revealed, because that would give the game away.
I recoiled at this thought, because it meant all my efforts were for nothing. I had literally spent years trying to write a book that, according to her, was a vain pursuit. Not long after this, I saw a film that seemed to offer me renewed encouragement.
Meyer, Stefan G. (2012-05-08). The Karma Seeker (pp. 275-276). Spiritual Traveler Press. Kindle Edition.
|Re: About The Karma Seeker by Stefan G. Meyer (with extracts)||Santim Vah||6/21/13 5:27 PM|
For those interested and seeking to understand what the quotes in this thread may actually mean in a broader sense, I believe the following may be the case:
Sally Plimpton is Patti Rivinus-Simpson
The 'covert/invite only' Chat Room Moderator is Doug Marman
The President is Harold Klemp
Andreas Leo is Paul Twitchell
(Note his name was actually JACOB Paul Twitchell, not John as per the Wiki)
Kip is obviously Stefan Meyer
and The League is Eckankar Corporation
HTHs .. I hope that helps.
|Re: About The Karma Seeker by Stefan G. Meyer (with extracts)||Santim Vah||6/21/13 5:30 PM|
Ooops ... then located in MENLO PARK CA.
|Re: About The Karma Seeker by Stefan G. Meyer (with extracts)||Santim Vah||6/21/13 7:04 PM|
It's also 30 years almost to the day that the original publication of Letters to Gail volume III by Darwin Gross arrived at Menlo Park's back storage area.
Coming on the heels of David Lane's first edition of TMOASM in April that same year, the first LTG3 caused quite a stir in the hornets nest as it created all kinds of issues most preferred to be kept out of the public eye.
and so, before too long ..... things began to occur and shift behind the scenes in Menlo Park.
Meanwhile Harold Klemp spent most of his days at home as usual, whilst Marge was at work and Margarette was at school, joyously making hot beverages for Joan his 'secretary' who happily delivered all the hot office gossip to eager ears whilst poor Doug Marman was trudging through the dust, scribbles and text in Paul's archive library hidden away in a store room at the Menlo Park office using a key provided by Harold.
Something like that...... and other fictions. :-)
|Re: About The Karma Seeker by Stefan G. Meyer (with extracts)||Etznab||3/20/14 6:32 PM|
On Friday, May 10, 2013 8:04:33 AM UTC-5, Santim Vah wrote:Is this the same Stefan Meyer who wrote The Karma Seeker?
In any case, it appears the subject of borrowings and plagiarism are no longer any big secret.
|Re: About The Karma Seeker by Stefan G. Meyer (with extracts)||Wally Nitwit||3/23/14 11:15 PM|
On Friday, March 21, 2014 12:32:57 PM UTC+11, Etznab wrote:
Yes it is he.
|Re: About The Karma Seeker by Stefan G. Meyer (with extracts)||burton_...@yahoo.com||4/3/14 9:03 AM|
Also, by Talbot Mundy:
The Nine Unknown
A fictional secret society founded by the Mauryan Emperor Asoka around 270 BC is entrusted with preserving knowledge that would be dangerous to humanity if it fell into the wrong hands. The nine unknown men are entrusted with guarding nine books of secret knowledge. In their fight to keep the books secret they face nine Kali worshipers, who sow confusion and masquerade as the true sages. A priest, Father Cyprian, who is in possession of the books wants to destroy them out of Christian piety but a number of other characters are interested in learning their content.