Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh

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Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh Bob Jones 6/16/11 5:45 AM
I have an old Macintosh SE that can't handle 1.44mb floppy disks. I
also have an eMac and a 466Mhz Power Macintosh G-4, and over 10
computers running Windows. Is there a way I can use any of them to
write an 800k floppy for the old Macintosh?
Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh A2CPM 6/16/11 7:11 AM
Hi!

    I just visited the LowEnd Mac site to see if either the eMac or
the G4 have a floppy drive.  Unless I missed it they do not.  So, the
answer is no unless you have a way to get images of the 800k disks you
want to create to the SE.

Willi

Re: Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh avigot 6/16/11 7:38 AM

> I have an old Macintosh SE that can't handle 1.44mb floppy disks

As far as I know, the problem is that also if you have an image you need to write the disk with old mac: but you can format 1.44 in the mac format (400k or 800k) This is due to a different format type on oldest mac.

Angelo
--------------------------------
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Ever failed.
No matter.
Try again.
Fail again.
Fail better.
(Samuel Beckett)

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Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh Charlie 6/16/11 7:51 AM
Yes that absolutely the problem.

You can format a 1.44 disc with a Plus or whatever for 800k , but you then cannot use that disc in a more modern machine with a 1.44 drive because it will ruin the formatting.

So you are stuck. i had to get a guy in Canada to send me some 800k system 6 discs for my Plus which I promptly ruined by sticking them in a 1.44 USB drive to take a back up of them.

So I'm in the same boat, I need to make 800k floppies with a system image on and the only machine that will do it needs the images to boot.

I will have another look at it when I get home tomorrow night, see if i can coax the old 10mb HDD into life and see if I can make some images and send them out to you.

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Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh motodale2 6/16/11 8:22 AM
also;

be careful, using high density disks (1.44mb) as 800k disks is iffy at best.
brand new 1.44mb disks formatted as 800k disks will usually work a few
times, then quit working (errors).
used 1.44mb disks will usually have problems formatted for 800k...

the best way is to get 800k disks (DSDD).
and have someone build the images you want on a SE or LC mac.

i have had luck with :  http://www.oldsoftware.com/
for DSDD disks (800k)

good luck;

dale

Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh coffee...@gmail.com 6/16/11 9:20 AM
Just curious, nothing more, but since Mactracker reports your SE (which model?) can use Mac OS 7.5.5, I would recommend installing that OS, somehow, and just format floppies, on a Windows machine, in 720k format, and Mac OS 7.5.3 and up (and maybe other System and Mac OS versions) can read, default, IBM formatted floppies. Perhaps, then, you can format the Windows-formatted 720k floppies into 800k Mac format. Or, have you just tried putting Scotch tape over the other notch (not the write-protect notch) and just let the SE (which model?) format it to 800k? Or have you looked at, like from a 240c Duo or something, the ability to use an additional, external old-tyme floppy drive, that can read 1.44 MB floppies?

For my oldest Macs, or when I need to make a floppy for old-tyme Macs, I just put Scotch tape for the notch and format it 800k.
Tyrone L. Warbasse,
http://www.totallyparanoia.com/

"¿Qué es mi primer nombre? ¡'Jódale'! ¡Eso es mi primer nombre!"

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Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh Powermac 6/16/11 10:25 AM
To write an 800K image back to a DD floppy disk reliably you need a
68K mac with a superdrive. PPC machines with their newer non inject
superdrives don't seem to work well for writing 800K disk images back
to disk.

You can still buy DD disks online or on ebay. Mostly you just need
enough for the operating system and some utilities and then you can
use diskcopy images transfered over serial (or ethernet if you have
it) to mount and install apps.


On Jun 16, 12:20 pm, "Tyrone L. Warbasse" <coffee4bi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Just curious, nothing more, but since Mactracker reports your SE (which
> model?) can use Mac OS 7.5.5, I would recommend installing that OS, somehow,
> and just format floppies, on a Windows machine, in 720k format, and Mac OS
> 7.5.3 and up (and maybe other System and Mac OS versions) can read, default,
> IBM formatted floppies. Perhaps, then, you can format the Windows-formatted
> 720k floppies into 800k Mac format. Or, have you just tried putting Scotch
> tape over the other notch (not the write-protect notch) and just let the SE
> (which model?) format it to 800k? Or have you looked at, like from a 240c
> Duo or something, the ability to use an additional, external old-tyme floppy
> drive, that can read 1.44 MB floppies?
>
> For my oldest Macs, or when I need to make a floppy for old-tyme Macs, I
> just put Scotch tape for the notch and format it 800k.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 8:22 AM, dale-gmail <motod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > also;
>
> > be careful, using high density disks (1.44mb) as 800k disks is iffy at
> > best.
> > brand new 1.44mb disks formatted as 800k disks will usually work a few
> > times, then quit working (errors).
> > used 1.44mb disks will usually have problems formatted for 800k...
>
> > the best way is to get 800k disks (DSDD).
> > and have someone build the images you want on a SE or LC mac.
>
> > i have had luck with :  http://www.oldsoftware.com/
> > for DSDD disks (800k)
>
> > good luck;
>
> > dale
>
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Lowndes" <charlie.lowndes@/
> > gmail.com>
> > To: <vintag...@googlegroups.com**>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 8:51 AM
> > Subject: Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh
>
> >  Yes that absolutely the problem.
>
> >> You can format a 1.44 disc with a Plus or whatever for 800k , but you then
> >> cannot use that disc in a more modern machine with a 1.44 drive because it
> >> will ruin the formatting.
>
> >> So you are stuck. i had to get a guy in Canada to send me some 800k system
> >> 6 discs for my Plus which I promptly ruined by sticking them in a 1.44 USB
> >> drive to take a back up of them.
>
> >> So I'm in the same boat, I need to make 800k floppies with a system image
> >> on and the only machine that will do it needs the images to boot.
>
> >> I will have another look at it when I get home tomorrow night, see if i
> >> can coax the old 10mb HDD into life and see if I can make some images and
> >> send them out to you.
>
> >> On 16 Jun 2011, at 15:38, a...@interfree.it wrote:
>
> >>>  I have an old Macintosh SE that can't handle 1.44mb floppy disks
>
> >>> As far as I know, the problem is that also if you have an image you need
> >>> to write the disk with old mac: but you can format 1.44 in the mac format
> >>> (400k or 800k) This is due to a different format type on oldest mac.
>
> >>> Angelo
> >>> ------------------------------**--
> >>> Ever tried.
> >>> Ever failed.
> >>> No matter.
> >>> Try again.
> >>> Fail again.
> >>> Fail better.
> >>> (Samuel Beckett)
>
> >>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> >>> -------------------
> >>> Valore legale alle tue mail
> >>> InterfreePEC - la tua Posta Elettronica Certificata
> >>>http://pec.interfree.it
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>
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> --
> Tyrone L. Warbasse,http://www.totallyparanoia.com/http://www.myspace.com/coffee4binky/
>
> "¿Qué es mi primer nombre? ¡'Jódale'! ¡Eso es mi primer nombre!"
>
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> Also, find me on Facebook!- Hide quoted text -
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> - Show quoted text -
Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh J Harton 6/16/11 5:40 PM
Just for the kicks, is the drive in the mac LC II one of these
superdrive ones?
Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh Fluke Starbucker 6/16/11 7:41 PM
Hello,

>Just for the kicks, is the drive in the mac LC II one of these superdrive ones?

Yes.  

The Macintosh IIx, introduced in September of 1988, was the first Macintosh to
feature the SuperDrive.  If the (desktop) Macintosh you're looking at was
introduced after 1988 and features a floppy drive, it is equipped with a
SuperDrive.

Best,

James Fraser

Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh Fluke Starbucker 6/16/11 8:02 PM
Hello,

>So you are stuck. i had to get a guy in Canada to send me some 800k system 6
>discs for my Plus which I promptly ruined by sticking them in a 1.44 USB drive
>to take a back up of them.

I'm not clear how inserting 800k Macintosh disks in a USB floppy drive will
instantly render them

unreadable.  Can someone please break this down for me?


Best,

James Fraser

Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh coffee...@gmail.com 6/17/11 1:53 AM
I'm not clear how inserting 800k Macintosh disks in a USB floppy drive will
instantly render them

unreadable.  Can someone please break this down for me?

From my own personal experience, in Mac OS X, I've inserted 800k or 720k (depends on which OS did the formatting) formatted disks, using an USB floppy drive, and Tiger asked if I wanted to initialize the disc, giving me some message that it can't read the disk or whatever. I clicked eject, and unplugged the drive, and don't use below 1.44 MB disks in OS X anymore.

Using MacReader (old DataViz program), I've been able to read and format 800k Mac disks on Windows 98 SE. This is back in 1998 to 2001, when I upgraded to XP.

I've also formatted 360k/400k old-tyme Mac floppies to both 720k and 1.44 MB during the 1990s, by using a notch puncher. The disks still function at the higher capacities. I've also down-formatted 2.88 MB discs, SuperDisks (those 120 MB floppies), and some special 21 MB floppy all into either 800k, 720k, or 1.44 MB, depending on which computer I was on. Again, no data loss.

Still, maybe the MacReader DataViz program for Windows might by the way to go, as 720k can still be formatted by Windows (sometimes is requires a different program or DOS, or DOSBox), and, as I've stated, I formatted 800k disks with MacReader many moons ago.


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Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh Fluke Starbucker 6/17/11 8:52 AM
Hello,

>From my own personal experience, in Mac OS X, I've inserted 800k or 720k
>(depends on which OS did the formatting) formatted disks, using an USB floppy
>drive, and Tiger asked if I wanted to initialize the disc, giving me some
>message that it can't read the disk or whatever.

Yes, that's the type of scenario I'm familiar with: an end user putting, say, a
high-density diskette into a double-density drive, only to then be told that the
disk is unreadable and then asked would they like to initialize it?

However, the only conditions I'm aware of under which the diskette will then
become unreadable for the proper drive are if the end user /chooses/ to
initialize the disk, or some sort of mechanical failure takes place (e.g. a
dirty or damaged read/write head starts scraping the media it's trying to read.)

This:

>So you are stuck. i had to get a guy in Canada to send me some 800k system 6
>discs for my Plus which I promptly ruined by sticking them in a 1.44 USB drive
>to take a back up of them.

...makes it sound as though putting an 800k disk into a high-density drive is
simply the Kiss of Death.  I'm not saying that might not be the case, only that
I myself am unfamiliar with how that would work.  There's some sleight-of-hand
taking place there I'm just not following.

I'm not the smartest monkey in the cage, but it would seem to me that, provided
the disk drive itself is in good shape, the user should still be able to eject
the disk intact and in readable condition, no problem.  Or so I would think.
Perhaps it -was- a mechanical failure that took place in the above instance and
I'm just overthinking this?  ::scratches head::


Best,

James Fraser

Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh J Harton 6/17/11 9:52 AM
If a normal PC floppy drive is physically capable of writing 800k
disks, which I can't say, I would assume that given good image files
you could use rawwrite (http://www.chrysocome.net/rawwrite) to write
the image to the disk. As far as I know, it does something akin to
unix's dd and doesn't care about format, it just writes raw data to
the floppy.
Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh Bob Jones 6/17/11 10:16 AM
If I got an older Macintosh from the 1990's with a PowerPC processor,
would it write 800k disks properly?
Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh Charles Davis 6/17/11 10:28 AM

> --  

Going from MEMORY (Always subject to adjustment/ correction] the drive  
mechanisms are different. The 'pc' drives rotate at a constant speed.  
While Apple, used a 'much more technically advanced method' Rotational  
speed vaaried depending ov which track was being accessed.    [ducks  
for cover]

Chuck

Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh Roger Alan 6/17/11 10:37 AM
Most likely not.

-RA
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Jones <doctor...@gmail.com>
Sender: vintag...@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:16:36
To: Vintage Macs<vintag...@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: vintag...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh

Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh Bob C. 6/17/11 11:18 AM
If I recall correctly, the "rule of thumb" for whether a Mac had an FDHD (or
"SuperDrive") was simply that if the desktop Mac (after the SE) had a BEIGE
case, it also had an FDHD.  All PowerBooks that had a built-in floppy did
too, I believe.

Bob


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Jones" <doctor...@gmail.com>
To: "Vintage Macs" <vintag...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh


> If I got an older Macintosh from the 1990's with a PowerPC processor,
> would it write 800k disks properly?

Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh coffee...@gmail.com 6/17/11 11:11 AM
For my MacReader formatting to 800k disks, I had to use a LS-120 SuperDrive floppy. I apologize for not clarifying that in my earlier response.

Also, this might be a solution. I think certain LS-120 SuperDrive, uh, drives were able to SCSI or parallel external connections, so perhaps an LS-120 can be hooked up to the SE in question, and function as the new floppy drive.

However, it does run the risk of not wanting to read 800k, though I doubt Imation/3M would be that dense to add that.
--
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"¿Qué es mi primer nombre? ¡'Jódale'! ¡Eso es mi primer nombre!"

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Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh coffee...@gmail.com 6/17/11 12:31 PM
Allow me to clarify again. LS-120 SuperDrive uses 120 MB SuperDisk floppies, and isn't the "superdrive" Apple uses for their products.

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Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh Fluke Starbucker 6/17/11 12:49 PM
Hello,

>I have an old Macintosh SE that can't handle 1.44mb floppy disks.

Does the machine -boot-, and you are seeking the capability to install
additional software?  Or will your SE not boot at all, (i.e you're getting the
flashing question mark) and you're simply looking to install system software
that will allow you to mouse around a bit and see what, say, System 6.0 looked
like?

I'm trying to better understand the end goal here.


Best,

James Fraser

Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh glen 6/17/11 3:35 PM

Yes, my 7500 (OS 9.1) just wrote I test file to an 800 KB floppy. My 6100 (OS
8.1) can format 800 KB floppies.
Of course the floppy drive in any of these old Mac's must be working. --glen

Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh Scott Holder 6/18/11 4:07 PM
Hmm, I hadn't heard of the LS-120 drives being able to write 800k disks on PCs. If that's the case, it might be a good way to guide people asking about disks. An LS-120 drive is probably cheaper and easier than a dedicated newer old Mac to make disks with. Maybe not easier than mailing disks though...

Scott


Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh coffee...@gmail.com 6/19/11 4:22 AM
Using the LS-120, I had a Compaq Presario 5610, 64 MB RAM, Windows 98 SE, and installed Dataviz's MacReader (I believe that's the name), then I had (and this was terrible) all via parallel via ABCDE switcher: CD-RW, Zip 100, Zip 250, UMAX scanner, and LS-120 SuperDisk. Since Compaq's default floppy was some funky type (read floppies fast, messed up on formatting and copying to), I bought the LS-120, thinking it could be a nice replacement, as SuperDisk floppies had 20 MB more than Zip, 'til Zip 250 came out. Today, though, I don't have any of this stuff working anymore, as if I need to write 800k, my old Mac Classic or Classic II (or Color Classic or 240c's external floppy) does it all for me. Again, it's the PARALLEL LS-120 model I used, not USB. When I do need an 800k floppy, I just take a 1.44 MB and Scotch tape the notch to fool the Classics into assuming it's a 800k.
RE: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh Wesley 6/21/11 7:12 PM
Unless my memory is wrong (same disclaimer as yours!), I was able to use a
program on my PC to write an image file to a Mac disk...but that was likely
a high density disk destined for a Mac LCII...and perhaps that is different
than the 800k disks...?

Wesley


-----Original Message-----

Going from MEMORY (Always subject to adjustment/ correction] the drive
mechanisms are different. The 'pc' drives rotate at a constant speed.  
While Apple, used a 'much more technically advanced method' Rotational  
speed vaaried depending ov which track was being accessed.    [ducks  
for cover]

Chuck

Re: Need to write 800k floppy disks for my Macintosh coffee...@gmail.com 6/21/11 10:14 PM
Sounds familiar, as MacReader wasn't my first Mac-reading program. I remember there was a program for Windows 3.1 that could read Mac, and make it seamless, though Mac icons appeared, Mac application could not be used. There was a variation of this program to access OS/2 files as well.

I recently just stuck a 1.44 MB floppy with tape over the notch. It works just fine. That's the solution I'm suggesting.

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