kwin for razor

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kwin for razor Petr Vanek 2/17/12 12:42 AM
hi all,

just for your information - I'm in contact with Martin Gräßlin, the kwin maintainer. It looks like the work on reduce KDE dependencies for kwin. For now we discuss options to

        - build kwin standalone; out of kde-workspace infrastructure
        - build it with or without optional KDE dependencies.

The original idea (by Martin) is to allow another DE, like Razor-qt is, to use kwin without KDE deps. So in the future we can have 2 non-conflicting versions of kwin based on one source code:

        - kwin, a full KDE build with deps to kdelibs, plasma, whatever
        - razor-kwin, a reduced version with deps to Qt only probably. With less effects but with hooks to custom tools (alt+tab...)

The special branch for this project will be announced soon. I hope some of us can help with these tasks too.

Also I'd like to point that initiator of this activity is Martin, that's really, really cool!

cheers,
petr

Re: [razor-qt] kwin for razor Sankrant Chaubey 2/17/12 1:52 AM
Yeah, kwin[present] with razor-qt sometimes hangs.

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Re: kwin for razor Peter Jespersen 2/17/12 5:04 AM
Awesome if the two kwin's are able to live (read: be installed) side
by side.
Re: [razor-qt] kwin for razor Gustavo 2/17/12 7:26 AM
And for the Qt only oxygen style? Do you know about that?

2012/2/17 Petr Vanek <pe...@scribus.info>

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Re: [razor-qt] kwin for razor Alec Moskvin 2/17/12 7:42 AM
That sounds really awesome!
Re: [razor-qt] kwin for razor Maciej Płaza 2/18/12 11:32 PM
2012/2/17 Alec Moskvin <al...@gmx.com>:
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That's great. I can't wait to test it!

Regards.
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Re: kwin for razor Jerome Leclanche 2/28/12 4:48 PM
This is so great. I was looking into it a couple days ago, but this is great news.

Kwin is a really good WM. It does have a couple of issues which openbox does not... will have to make a list some time.

What does kwin depend on KDE for?
Re: [razor-qt] Re: kwin for razor Archie Arevalo 2/28/12 5:32 PM

On Tuesday 28 February 2012 16:48:44 Jerome Leclanche wrote:

> This is so great. I was looking into it a couple days ago, but this is

> great news.

>

> Kwin is a really good WM. It does have a couple of issues which openbox

> does not... will have to make a list some time.

>

> What does kwin depend on KDE for?

>

On my distro as with most IMO, it depends on kdeworkspace.

Re: [razor-qt] Re: kwin for razor Jerome Leclanche 2/28/12 5:49 PM
My question is what does it use the dependencies for.
Re: [razor-qt] Re: kwin for razor Petr Vanek 2/28/12 10:02 PM
sorry for top-posting. Here is the log of my dialogue with Martin from kwin:

On Tuesday 14 February 2012 12:42:51 you wrote:
On Feb 10, 2012 (Friday), at 8:33 AM, Martin Gräßlin wrote:
On Feb 9, 2012 (Thursday), at 9:45 AM, Martin Gräßlin wrote:
I am the maintainer of KDE's compositor and window manager KWin, which
is
one of the window managers supported by Razor-Qt. I wanted to discuss
with you what we (KWin and Razor team) can do to increase the
integration. From my side I would be most interested in knowing what we
can do to make KWin the default window manager in Razor :-)

the basic thing for us would be to reduce required dependencies. I'm not
sure what's kwin linked to now (sitting in front of the mac). But also
distro dependencies. For example: I prepare virtual images for my company
customers with X11/Razor (it was KDE4 based before but now I can save
almost 40% of size what is quite important for download).

Yes that is in general a problem of all KDE applications and because of
that we are working on Frameworks 5 :-) After that I expect that KWin
will be almost Qt only. I investigated the efforts to get it Qt only some
weeks ago and the main problems currently are:
* kDebug statements

kDebug should be easy
Actually no as we have own hooks to pass internal classes to kDebug. Also it's 
quite a lot :-) But in general yes a easy replace would be possible or adding 
some small wrapper or whatever :-)

* KConfig

kConfig cold be a little bit harder. I did not examine it more but maybe
it's used only in one place (few places) so it can be conditionally
replaced with qsettings/whatever.
Yes that was an idea I had as it should actually be just one class which reads 
kconfig. Unfortunately also all effects can access their own KConfigGroup, so 
the effects are a little bit more difficult.
* KStandardDirs

The same as above.
Yes, unfortunately also quite spread over the complete codebase and rather 
useful :-)

* KWindowSystem (part of KWin is in kdelibs)

At least the last item will be solved by Frameworks and could even be
solved today by just compiling the files together with KWin.

if I understand it correctly - the "frameworks" will be something like split
kdelibs into smaller chunks?
exactly and I hope that Razor can benefit from it as you can just depend on 
small libraries instead of the whole blob.

Some information is available in the wiki: 
http://community.kde.org/Frameworks/Strategy_and_Policies
Inside workspace KWin depends on Kephal, which is something on my kill
list
anyway and the activities which are optional anyway.

kephal can be replaced by QDesktopWidget if I undersatnd it correctly
kephal is in fact just a wrapper around QDesktopWidget - that's why I want to 
drop it :-)


So - I think any big changes are not allowed in KDE 4.x lifecycle, correct?
So what's your roadmap? Branching?
Yes, my current plan is to prepare a branch and as a first step allow to build 
KWin standalone (without being part of kde-workspace) and to no longer depend 
on anything else from kde-workspace. I want to have the difference as small as 
possible, so what makes sense to go into master.

Btw: congrats to the release :-)

Cheers
Martin




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Re: kwin for razor PICCORO Lenz McKAY 4/12/12 10:51 AM
I think it's too much work. Better to take something small,
understandable and manageable and improve it. Something easy to merge
in the git code.

Currently QLWM code which quite simple, easy and manageable, allowing
others to understand and make improvements, not so har for others its
important due so then, many can contribute to the project RazorQT more
easile, to advance more quickly ..

So must take into account the time spent coding respect the every day
life of each one of us, as well as the responsibilities...

http://qlwm.get.to/
Re: kwin for razor Jerome Leclanche 4/12/12 10:58 AM
There's definitely no interest in a razor windowmanager. The Kwin port is going well, last I heard from Martin. qlwm looks nice but Kwin is a proven, long-standing window manager with many features and, most of all, compositing. The only interest here is to define an "official" window manager -- One of Razor's philosophies is keeping things well-split, what would be the point of bundling a WM?
Re: [razor-qt] Re: kwin for razor Petr Vanek 4/12/12 12:22 PM

On Apr 12, 2012 (Thursday), at 7:51 PM, PICCORO Lenz McKAY wrote:

> I think it's too much work. Better to take something small,
> understandable and manageable and improve it. Something easy to merge
> in the git code.
>
> Currently QLWM code which quite simple, easy and manageable, allowing
> others to understand and make improvements, not so har for others its
> important due so then, many can contribute to the project RazorQT more
> easile, to advance more quickly ..
>
> So must take into account the time spent coding respect the every day
> life of each one of us, as well as the responsibilities...
>
> http://qlwm.get.to/

is QLWM compilable with later Qt4?

There is no problem to run QLWM with razor if it follows freedesktop standards.

So for me (personally) there is no free resource to hack a window manager. So if you or anybody else will prove that QLWM is usable and compilable I can create packages for rpm based distros to be used with razor...

Re: [razor-qt] Re: kwin for razor PICCORO Lenz McKAY 4/12/12 12:24 PM
The idea its merge code and make a WM based on QLWM.. not implement a
WM over razorqt..

QLWM have a qt4 version, of course, now its qt4 app..

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Re: [razor-qt] Re: kwin for razor Jerome Leclanche 4/12/12 12:29 PM
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:24 PM, PICCORO McKAY Lenz <mckayg...@gmail.com> wrote:
The idea its merge code and make a WM based on QLWM.. not implement a
WM over razorqt..

I'm all for it but I don't know if you're going to get much support. There's already very little support to even work on anything WM-related...

J. Leclanche
Re: [razor-qt] Re: kwin for razor Petr Vanek 4/12/12 12:32 PM

well, mainly because it's very complicated and complex stuff. And you know these waylands etc ;)