Borosilicate Glass source?

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Borosilicate Glass source? heyarn 10/8/12 11:03 AM
Hi All,

Does anyone know where I can buy the Borosilicate glass for the heat bed (8.5 in x 8.5 in)? :) Is it correct to assume that regular glass will crack with the heat?

Thanks!!!
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Shai 10/8/12 11:05 AM
Yes it will crack. You can get it from mcmaster.com , thats where I got mine from. Except the rounded glass ones are far more expensive which sucks.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Andrew Lindsey 10/8/12 11:06 AM
I bought mine from these folks:

http://www.lulzbot.com/en/57-borosilicate-glass-bed.html

You can also order borosilicate glass in various sizes and shapes from mcmaster-carr.  Sadly, they don't seem to have any disks large enough for a Rostock build platform.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? heyarn 10/8/12 11:11 AM
i'm at mcmaster.com now.. what thickness should I be looking for? :)
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Shai 10/8/12 11:17 AM
I got 1/8 inch I believe but in square 6x6 
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? heyarn 10/8/12 11:29 AM
Thanks! My heatbed is 8.5 x 8.5. Since they dont have these dimensions, I wonder if i can cut this glass like regular glass.. (ie with a glass cutter)
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Alex 10/8/12 11:30 AM
Yes you can cut boro like regular glass.  If you lube with a bit of 3 in 1 oil before scoring, it makes it a bit easier, but not required.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Alex 10/8/12 11:31 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOeEhxFze5k


On Monday, October 8, 2012 11:29:18 AM UTC-7, heyarn wrote:
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Taylor Alexander 10/8/12 1:43 PM
I used 9"x9" glass, and then used a countersink on the PCB to make it so the screws will be flat under the glass.

Easier than messing with cutting it.

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Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Brian Evans 10/8/12 3:20 PM
Just bought some 3/16" 6x6 boro for my mini build from McMaster and it is fantastic. No need to worry about inertial weight so why not go a little thicker for the same price. The nice thing is that they grind down the sharp edges and corners although it wasnt exactly 6x6. If you cut it yourself you will often slice your fingers. I would otherwise go with 8x8 b/c if you are using the prusa pcb its heat area is actually a little smaller than 8x8 but as Taylor suggested 9x9 would work as well.

Ive also used mirror picked up at the hardware store and they can cut to size. Works fantastic with Kapton tape although Im interested to see how the bare boro grips the PLA. 
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Shai 10/8/12 3:54 PM
It sucks that McMaster doesn't have cheap round glass. 12" round disc glass for a 8x8 heated bed is something between $100-200. Need to find alternate sources... I'm building a round base and I would like to keep the design aspects in the glass as well - round.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Daniel - TriDPrinting.com 10/9/12 12:50 AM
We found a supplier for round borosilicate glass. What diameter and thickness does everyone want at a good price? If the price was low enough, would anyone still want to use rectangular pieces?

Thanks
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Shai 10/9/12 7:17 AM
Could you share who the supplier is?
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Daniel - TriDPrinting.com 10/9/12 7:36 AM
Sure...  Right now we are talking to Shandong HonHai Industrial Company Limited at http://www.boroglasstube.com.

Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Shai 10/9/12 7:42 AM
I see this: http://www.boroglasstube.com/newEbiz1/EbizPortalFG/portal/html/ProductInfoExhibit.html?ProductInfoExhibit_ProductID=c373e91e820d270f8ffa98677df55827&ProductInfoExhibit_isRefreshParent=false

Do they do only large orders? It seems like a manufacturer, not a retailer. and are they located in China? (by the name)

I still don't know what size I need as my parts are still being shipped, first need to assemble and then figure out size.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Alex 10/9/12 7:44 AM
If you're looking for smaller quantities from a Schott distributor in the US, try

They have a $50 minimum per size.  Web site only states up to 7" diameter, but might call to confirm.

As example, they quoted me $35 for a 12" x 16" sheet of 3mm boro in the past.


On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 7:36:35 AM UTC-7, Daniel wrote:
Sure...  Right now we are talking to Shandong HonHai Industrial Company Limited at http://www.boroglasstube.com.

Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Shai 10/9/12 7:51 AM
I just called cincinnatigasket.com on phone. They said 12" Diameter and 1/8" Thickness is $50. Do they actually calculate price? Because thats pretty cheap lol.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Alex 10/9/12 7:52 AM
It may be even less than that if you buy 2. They do a $50 minimum.  So if less than $50 and you're ordering 1, they will still charge you $50
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Shai 10/9/12 7:57 AM
Wow, thats really cheap! McMaster.com sells 6 1/2" max diameter for $135. These guys are really cheap and more than half the price. 
Do they have a good reputation? (sometimes the price sounds too good to be true). Have you ordered from them before Mi Yew?
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Alex 10/9/12 7:59 AM
I didn't order from them, but Schotts referred me to them as a distributor, so I think they are legit.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Daniel - TriDPrinting.com 10/9/12 8:04 AM
Yes, that is them.  We're looking at a large order to make it worthwhile.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? John Driggers 10/9/12 8:39 AM
Guys - why borosilicate rather than simply getting toughened (tempered) glass? I realize borosilicate is going to be flatter, but you are talking about .001mm difference across 500mm ?

I've a great supplier in Cambridge in the UK for custom borosilicate, but it's still on the order of $50us for something in the size you want........


Regards,

john
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? RichieC 10/9/12 9:25 AM
Not that i'm recommending it or that people shouldnt use borocylicate glass, but I just use normal 3mm thick window glass and i've never had a problem with it cracking or breaking.  Saying that i've only ever printed with PLA so im not sure if the bed needs to be hotter for ABS, but i run the bed at around 75C most of the time during printing and have had it up to around 100C without a problem.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Brian Evans 10/9/12 11:18 AM
I've heard that borosilicate grips PLA better with just clean bare glass surface - no Kapton needed. (I know some have said the same about plain glass but I never had luck with that...) I think the heat resistance is just a bonus.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Greg Yurko 10/9/12 11:40 AM
I agree with John.  I have a $2.40 piece of window glass from Lowes and it's been fine for a couple months at temps consistently 70C or higher.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Tim Driedger 10/9/12 12:04 PM
I've been printing on the same piece of $5 hardware store window glass
since January.

Tim

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Greg Yurko <greg....@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree with John.  I have a $2.40 piece of window glass from Lowes and it's
> been fine for a couple months at temps consistently 70C or higher.
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 11:39:39 AM UTC-4, John Driggers wrote:
>>
>> Guys - why borosilicate rather than simply getting toughened (tempered)
>> glass? I realize borosilicate is going to be flatter, but you are talking
>> about .001mm difference across 500mm ?
>>
>> I've a great supplier in Cambridge in the UK for custom borosilicate, but
>> it's still on the order of $50us for something in the size you want........
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> john
>>
>> On Monday, October 8, 2012 7:03:50 PM UTC+1, heyarn wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Does anyone know where I can buy the Borosilicate glass for the heat bed
>>> (8.5 in x 8.5 in)? :) Is it correct to assume that regular glass will crack
>>> with the heat?
>>>
>>> Thanks!!!
>
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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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Re: Borosilicate Glass source? John Driggers 10/9/12 12:45 PM
So I started with frosted (sanded) tempered glass, and had no problems with it at all - want to say 3mm - and it cost me like $7.  It will still crack, and if you drop it on the kitchen floor, it still makes a mess!

Since I found out the above the hard way on a weekend, I picked up a 3mm frosted piece of window glass, cut it to size, and have been printing on it for a couple of months now with ABS - so set at 120/110C for first layer and 90/100 for rest depending on the plastic vendor... 

I've had OK luck with printing PLA directly onto the glass, but I tend to use ABS most of the time, so use Kapton tape.  I've also got a piece of frosted, toughened glass sitting here just waiting on the window glass to crack  - which it shows no sign of doing.....
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Roy Avery 10/9/12 12:56 PM
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Petr Sedlacek 10/9/12 3:13 PM
I'm very happy printing on a bare standard 4mm mirror glass with
faberdashery PLA - it sticks to the heated bed perfectly at just 60�C.
Best thing is that when the bed cools down I can just pick the printed
parts up - they unstick themselves completely :)

On 09/10/12 19:18, Brian Evans wrote:
> I've heard that borosilicate grips PLA better with just clean bare
> glass surface - no Kapton needed. (I know some have said the same
> about plain glass but I never had luck with that...) I think the heat
> resistance is just a bonus. --
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Petr Sedlacek 10/9/12 3:18 PM
John,

Care to share who the supplier is? I'm considering getting some borosilicate glass - provided that ABS stick to it better than to a standard glass. I'm afraid that might be just a feeling though...

I ordered a 200x200 Prusa heated bed with a mirror glass from reprap.me on eBay so I will probably just use that for now - I'd love to create a larger custom heated bed later on since I have a >250x250 printing area... I wish those silicone heated pads were available in the UK!

Pete


On 09/10/12 16:39, John Driggers wrote:
Guys - why borosilicate rather than simply getting toughened (tempered) glass? I realize borosilicate is going to be flatter, but you are talking about .001mm difference across 500mm ?

I've a great supplier in Cambridge in the UK for custom borosilicate, but it's still on the order of $50us for something in the size you want........


Regards,

john

On Monday, October 8, 2012 7:03:50 PM UTC+1, heyarn wrote:
Hi All,

Does anyone know where I can buy the Borosilicate glass for the heat bed (8.5 in x 8.5 in)? :) Is it correct to assume that regular glass will crack with the heat?

Thanks!!!
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Re: Borosilicate Glass source? RPlasticPirate 10/14/12 4:50 PM
Soo.... we cracked 3 mm gardenshed window normal glass today... twice... with PLA... Gonna find a local borosilicate source for sure.

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 6:25:00 PM UTC+2, RichieC wrote:
Not that i'm recommending it or that people shouldnt use borocylicate glass, but I just use normal 3mm thick window glass and i've never had a problem with it cracking or breaking.  Saying that i've only ever printed with PLA so im not sure if the bed needs to be hotter for ABS, but i run the bed at around 75C most of the time during printing and have had it up to around 100C without a problem.
  

On Monday, 8 October 2012 19:05:41 UTC+1, Shai wrote:
Yes it will crack. You can get it from mcmaster.com , thats where I got mine from. Except the rounded glass ones are far more expensive which sucks.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? heyarn 10/14/12 8:38 PM
Has anyone used aluminum plates before? What if I just use 1/8 custom cut aluminum plate? How will this differ from using boro glass?
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Andrew Lindsey 10/14/12 9:41 PM
We use an aluminum plate on our Makerbot.  Plastic only sticks to it if it's coated with tape.  Aluminum itself is too thermally conductive, it sucks the heat away from the molten plastic before the plastic can stick to it, so you'd need to use a later of blue painter's tape for PLA, or Kapton tape for ABS, on it.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? JohnD 10/15/12 1:35 AM
You'd also be surprised just just how "NOT" flat a bog standard aluminum plate is.  I've used one in the past, and ended up having to mill the surface to get it to a decent tolerance..  That combined with the weight kinda drove me down the road to boro and beech.

On a Rostock, where the bed doesn't move, may be less relevant...
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? flink 10/15/12 3:10 AM

Here is a quote I received from John C. Ernst:


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thank you for your inquiry.  Following is the pricing and delivery that you requested...

 

1 Each - Model 530 12.00-0.25 

              Annealed Borosilicate Clear Plate Glass Disc

              Size: 12" Dia. x 1/4" Thick

              Net Price Each: $99.00

              Lead Time To Ship: 3-4 Weeks

 

Please verify chemical compatibility of your application with the above equipment before purchasing.

 

Terms: Net 30 Days with approved credit; Credit Card: MC, Visa, Am. Express (please fax or call in CC number)

Minimum Order Amount: $30

FOB: Sparta, NJ

Freight Carrier: UPS PPD & Add or Collect

Prices Valid For: 60 Days

 

If you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

Sincerely,

 

Scott Gurdak

Customer Service Dept


John C. Ernst Co., Inc.   

21 Gail Ct. Sparta, NJ  07871  USA
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Shai 10/15/12 7:33 AM
I called up cincinnatigasket.com and they quoted me for $50 for a 12" diameter 1/8" thickness borosilicate glass. I think $50 is their minimum price quote, so its probably even less than that which means you could probably buy two or more  - or a bigger diameter glass for $50 or a little over. Big savings IMHO.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Alex 10/15/12 7:54 AM
Flinks quote is for 1/4" so maybe the 1/8" may be the same price. Sight Glass minimum is only $30 vs. Cincinnati Gasket $50.  
Now the question is Sight Glass Schott's Boro Float?


On Monday, October 15, 2012 7:33:25 AM UTC-7, Shai wrote:
I called up cincinnatigasket.com and they quoted me for $50 for a 12" diameter 1/8" thickness borosilicate glass. I think $50 is their minimum price quote, so its probably even less than that which means you could probably buy two or more  - or a bigger diameter glass for $50 or a little over. Big savings IMHO.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Charles Steinkuehler 10/16/12 6:40 AM
On 10/14/2012 10:38 PM, heyarn wrote:
> Has anyone used aluminum plates before? What if I just use 1/8 custom cut
> aluminum plate? How will this differ from using boro glass?

Check on the MendelMax, earlier versions of which used an aluminum
plate.  I've got one of these, and the main drawback seems to be you
have to have reasonably thick aluminum and it needs to be milled if you
want it to be flat enough to print.  Check on the MendelMax group
archives for discussions of the aluminum plate and the newer design that
replaces it with a piece of boro glass.

Since the build plate doesn't move on a Rostock and weight isn't an
issue (other than thermal mass when heating up the bed), I'm planning on
cutting down a stone tile from the home improvement store.  I can get
polished granite 12" and 18" squares that are flat enough to look like a
mirror and are only a few dollars each.

--
Charles Steinkuehler
cha...@steinkuehler.net


Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Auzze 10/25/12 2:17 PM
Hi..
 
Normal house glass is OK, after 100 of hours of printing it's never cracked...
I use 3 , 4mm glass plates, these are heated to 110C heaps of time and never had it crack, a few scratches. So save some money and just use glass
 
StuartM
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? RPlasticPirate 10/26/12 11:11 AM
Refereeing that comment to one I made earlier about normal glass cracking 3 times and I'm also pretty sure it in theory it won't work and that's what all the glass experts say too - how they hell do you claim its normal glass then? Hmm.. It must be significantly different or maybe some heating methods like the PCB MK1 doesn't work with that.

At any rate use tempered glass at-least - doesn't cost much and it will actually work rather than "not break" by half melting or how ever dome people have made plain sheet glass "work".

I suggest that if people persist on claiming that normal glass work they mention where they got it, how thick and for usage it was produced for, brand, store, section etc. - heard mirror glass works for some I'm pretty sure its because its not normal glass.

Mine didn't work after 3 tries of perfect guts on a MK1 PCB heater and that was plain fucking glass bought for window replacement 3 mm sheet at Bauhouse that after looking it up and talking to experts should work ether.

Commence with the proper research.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? John Silvia 10/26/12 12:23 PM
Whether glass breaks or not under thermal stress depends on the amount of internal stress in the glass and the rate and uniformity of heating.  Borosilicate glass is more resistant because it has a lower coefficient of expansion hence less stress when it is heated.  It will, in fact, break with enough heat stress however.  One way I used to  cut it is to scratch it (to localize some stress) then touch the scratch with a small point of semi-molten glass.

Some people get away with using soft glass because they are lucky in the particular piece of glass and/or their heating is slow and/or uniform.  The next piece from the same supplier might not work.  

I suspect mirror glass is a bit more likely to work because it is generally more uniform in thickness leading to less stress and more even heating.  Tempered glass is better because it has been specifically tempered to reduce or distribute the stress.

It is mostly a matter of odds.  Your chances are much better with borosilicate glass, but you might luck out.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? bstott 10/26/12 3:34 PM
Printing - Normal window pane. 1/8" X 4.5" X 4.5" over one and half years - No break. Useing blue painter's tape.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? RPlasticPirate 10/26/12 4:07 PM
Just to confirm: So no heat then?

My better half use to be a wall painter by trade so she handed me a roll of that blue stuff the other day - haven't tried it yet :)

BTW John thanks for the good explanation - all science is about odds really. Hence why I'm trying to speak up about the difference between freak incidences and the most likely outcome. If you are new here people should get the impression that there is just a chance it will brake or its generally more economic over the time to use plain glass. Its the reverse and chance that you don't end up spending more money is bit of a lottery. Science - will get you throw out of casinos :D

Ohhh.. BTW new 007 movie is old-school good.... Very good.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? bstott 10/26/12 4:41 PM
Oopppsss! Real HOT Baby! Real Hot! Only print ABS. 110C-115C. Plain ole window pane.....
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Ezra Zygmuntowicz 10/26/12 6:54 PM
Just FYI I spoke about this in the rostok mini thread but I have a
very good source for borosilicate glass as well as custom kapton
heaters,

I've jut put in an order that I should have in hand for sale in about
3 weeks of the following.

170mm diameter *round* borosilicate plate 3mm thick with a 160mm
diameter kapton heater 12v 120W

and

250 diameter  *round* borosilicate plate 3mm thick with a 240mm
diameter kapton heater 24v 200W

$50 and $70 respectively for the glass *and* the matching kapton
heater. Including ground edges.

I will have 100 pieces of each of these matching sets within 3 weeks
for sale at trinitylabs.com after the new website launch.

I already do have the following rectangle ground edge boro plates for
cheaper then anyone else in stock >>

$10  170mm x 170mm x 3mm
$20  230mm x 290mm x 3mm
$25  250mm x 320mm x 3mm
$30  320mm x 320mm x 3mm

And I will have prusa sized 200mm x 214mm x3mm by november 5th for
$15.each and already have 190mm x 190mm 12v 120w kapton heaters for
them.


Cheers-
-Ezra
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? RPlasticPirate 10/27/12 2:13 PM
Yeah that is really great - just vastly too expensive for us euro crowd with shipping and import fees.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Greg Yurko 10/28/12 1:39 PM
My "normal" glass came from lowes.  Been fine as far as remaining in one piece for months.  It was $2 for enough to make two bases.
You guys are nuts!  I'm going to setup a borosilicate glass web store and retire.  
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Taylor Alexander 10/28/12 2:47 PM

I've heard many people say window glass worked fine for them. I've also heard enough people say it didn't that I personally decided not to mess with it. My printer is in my bedroom and I didn't want broken glass in there ever. Plus I have 24v on a 12v MK1 bed so it heats up *very* fast. And I have a fan on my head that blows on the part, which also hits the glass. For all those reasons, I chose borosilicate.

If your bed heats up slower and you don't have a head fan you could be fine. But for every person that says it worked for them, another says it didn't. You know some people smoke cigarettes their whole lives and die at 90? Just because you've been lucky doesn't mean that others that don't want to risk or bother are wrong. For me, the $30 was money well spent.

On Oct 28, 2012 1:39 PM, "Greg Yurko" <greg....@gmail.com> wrote:
My "normal" glass came from lowes.  Been fine as far as remaining in one piece for months.  It was $2 for enough to make two bases.
You guys are nuts!  I'm going to setup a borosilicate glass web store and retire.

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Re: Borosilicate Glass source? heyarn 10/28/12 3:43 PM
Guys, 

I've been using my boro for about 1 week now. I love how it just pops out when cooled. I put custom code in slicer to cool it down after the print and I've hooked up my laptop's skype to auto answer, and make it face the bed when I leave (my setup is in the garage). Now I'm able to print parts, then leave them. I just check on them through my smart phone, and start another job when it's done. :)
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? rrhb 10/28/12 4:23 PM
I've broken two pieces of glass - one from a picture frame, another thick piece from an old scanner.
both while using a heated bed on my prusa, which I don't have on my rostock.

I bought the prusa sized borosilcate piece from trinitylabs.com. I believe it was under <$13.

-rrhb
unk...@googlegroups.com 10/28/12 7:34 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? profeti 10/28/12 7:49 PM
I've been experimenting with glass quite a bit and have broken plenty.  Been using ordinary glass (1/4 inch) because I had some on hand and it's also readily available locally.  Other than the breaking, I really like it...! Seriously though, my main focus has been on printing ABS on bare glass.  Tape, ABS juice, etc.. don't apeal to me asthetically or practically.  Have had some success with etched glass, get very good adhesion and the parts release effortlessly when the glass cools.  Just ordered some 1/4 boro from McMaster and will try to etch that and see what happens.

I am also using glass for the base of my Rostock, which has worked quite well.  

Here's a pic of my latest glass failure.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Petr Sedlacek 10/29/12 2:08 AM
Oh, I don't think putting a round piece of glass on a square heated bed is a particularly good idea :) The overhanging parts are not heated and there will be a lot more stress between the heated and non-heated part of the glass...

On another note - I've only been printing on mirror glass, 2 different pieces (admittedly, one is small, just 150x150mm for my Printrbot) with no problems so far. Might be a thing to consider instead of normal glass.

Best regards
Petr Sedlacek
http://RepRapShack.co.uk
3D Printer Parts

Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Taylor Alexander 10/29/12 2:33 AM
I'm pretty sure it would be fine with borosilicate. But since glass is a poor conductor of heat it also wouldn't make much sense. It might look cool though.

Also, you can easily source round silicone heating pads, so whoever wanted round may not be using a square heater, though I didn't check the thread to see exactly what they said.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? ezmobius 10/29/12 3:16 AM
This is why I prefer borosilicate >>


:P

FYI I have placed my order for 100 pcs of  170mm diameter ground edge round 3mm thick borosilicate plates and 100 pcs of 250mm diameter ground edge round 3mm thick plates.

I've also ordered 100 pcs of 160mm diameter *round* kapton heaters at 12V 120W to match the 170mm glass and 100pcs of 240mm *round* kapton heaters at 24V 200W to match the 250mm round plates. Both have built in thermistors and I'll let the list know when I have these in pocket to sell as match pairs of round heaters and borosilicate print surfaces for mini-rostock and normal rostock size deltabots.

I will update the list once I have these in my hands and ready for sale and will link to my web store then.

Cheers-
-Ezra
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Petr Sedlacek 10/29/12 3:31 AM
Hi Ezra,

Did you get my e-mail re boro sheets to the UK?

Best regards
Petr Sedlacek
http://RepRapShack.co.uk
3D Printer Parts

Re: Borosilicate Glass source? profeti 10/29/12 3:44 AM
Yeah, I was pushing it with that one. Though I don't think it was the overhang that caused it to fail. That was a 290mm dia. disc which was just about touching the screw heads on the heatbed cold.  The failure occurred at the point when the glass expanded enough to make contact with the screws.

Once I find a good (read cheap) supplier of 1/4 inch boro I'll switch to that, at the moment I'm cutting the discs by hand which means I need rather large sheets for a successful cut, plus I'm still not very good at cutting discs.  Just discovered that one of the local TechShops has a waterjet, so I'll give that a shot with boro once I see how it prints with just an etch. Maybe I'll try mirror too...

And, I'm going to go with a round heater for my Kossel variant, but for now all I have are the prusas.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? ezmobius 10/29/12 3:48 AM
Petr-

Yes I am sorry I haven't had time to respond yet. I will get back to you privately tomorrow. But the short answer is that I will soon have a EU shipping depot for my parts and printers so they will ship from within the EU if you order them there.

For now though if you wanted a bit larger order of boro I can arrange for it to be shipped directly to you from the source rather then having it come into the USA and then back to the UK,

I will email back to anyone who emailed me off list about borosilicte s well tomorrow. Just been swamped with a new product line launch rapidly approaching ;)


Cheers-
-Ezra
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Chowderhead 10/29/12 6:54 PM
Here, here for plain 'ol glass. I go to Goodwill or Vinnies and buy old pictures for 99 cents, yank the glass and sometimes even find a use for the frame. Only time it breaks is when I'm stupid, which sadly is a frequent occurrence. Haven't witnessed spontaneous fracturing from heating yet...
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Taylor Alexander 10/29/12 7:22 PM


On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Chowderhead <je...@anzalonemail.com> wrote:
Here, here for plain 'ol glass. I go to Goodwill or Vinnies and buy old pictures for 99 cents, yank the glass and sometimes even find a use for the frame. Only time it breaks is when I'm stupid, which sadly is a frequent occurrence. Haven't witnessed spontaneous fracturing from heating yet...

I dropped my Ultimaker on the ground and the borosilicate glass fell off and hit the concrete - just got a tiny tiny chip in it. :)

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Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Chowderhead 10/30/12 6:37 AM
Living up to my screen name - hear, hear...

Yeah, I play with borosilicate glass at work all the time. It's excellent stuff but expensive overkill for this purpose, at least for me. 100C is nothing for plate glass - single strength crystal performs beautifully.

I think a big part of the reason borosilicate glass is performing so well is that (at least the pieces I've seen) the edges are prepped so nicely; they're sanded and rounded over, removing chips and nicks that inevitably run. My last failure was caused by a sloppy break having a chip that I didn't sand out; lasted about two dozen prints before it ran across. Still printed on it for another week - blue tape saved the day!
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Taylor Alexander 10/30/12 4:51 PM
You say its overkill, but even you admit to having breakages. I want my glass to never ever break from regular use, so for me it isn't overkill, it in fact sounds like its the only reasonable solution  Its an extra $28 over plate glass to never have to worry about it breaking.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? ezmobius 10/31/12 6:38 PM
So I have been working with my source and I am going ot be able to get round borosilicate print beds with ground edges as qell as roubnd kapton heaters without issue. Just wanted to share the rendering of the die I am getting cut for the kapton round heaters >>


I am ordering 200 pcs each of 170mm diameter round glass, 250mm round glass and 160mm round kapton heaters as well as 240mm round kapton heaters.

I am in the process of getting the dies made and everything manufactured so I expect to have these in my hands ready to sell before or near the end of November.

Cheers-
-Ezra
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? ezmobius 11/6/12 6:04 AM
I got 200 more sheets of prusa side 200mm x 214mm borosilicate ground edge rectangular print beds in stock today >>


$14/each

170mm round and 250mm round have been ordered and are 20 days or so way from being in pocket,

-Ezra
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Ge Le 7/20/13 8:29 AM
No source for 12" or 300mm round borosilicate glass, aluminum 1/8" thick, and heater?
The round 240mm heater might work, under the aluminum plate to spread the heat?
Thanks, Gary
RE: Borosilicate Glass source? Nathan Reichenberger 7/20/13 9:39 AM
I got a round borosilicate glass surface from seemecnc
http://shop.seemecnc.com/300mm-round-borosilicate-build-plate-300BORO.htm

just an idea
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RE: Borosilicate Glass source? D-tek 7/20/13 1:08 PM
What do people think of using a round microwave oven pyrex tray (like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-Microwave-Oven-Part-OEM-Glass-Turntable-Plate-12-5-8-Diameter-/330956359780?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0e894864) for a heated build platform. These can be easily had for half of the price of a custom cut pyrex sheet. Some of them have molded knobs in the bottom which would keep a heater from sitting flush, but others are fairly smooth with just a lightly textured finish on the bottom that a silicon heater might squish nicely against. I am putting together a Kossel Mini and was thinking of trying a microwave tray, but thought i'd run it by others with experience to see if there are obvious reasons why it wouldn't work.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? D-tek 7/20/13 7:38 PM
There is also this round 14" tempered glass baking sheet for ~ $25.00 that might work. It is good to 260 C. Looks like that text might be painted on the back side though. Kind of unsightly, but a little black stove paint on the back might blank it out. Either this baking sheet or a glass microwave turntable tray might be trimmed down to fit a smaller build.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Ge Le 7/20/13 7:59 PM
I don't think you can cut down a tempered glass piece.
I think it will just shutter when you try to cut it.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Charles Steinkuehler 7/20/13 8:11 PM
On 7/20/2013 3:08 PM, D-tek wrote:
> What do people think of using a round microwave oven pyrex tray
> (like this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-Microwave-Oven-Part-OEM-Glass-Turntable-Plate-12-5-8-Diameter-/330956359780?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0e894864)

Maybe I'm crazy, but I've got a 12" polished granite tile 3/8" thick I
plan on cutting down to use as a heated build platform.  It was only a
few dollars at the local Home Depot, and I already have a wet saw to cut
it into shape (octagon, of course:
http://www.amazon.com/Battlestar-Galactica-Propaganda-Posters-Prints/dp/B001MBJ44O
).

So say we all!  :)

--
Charles Steinkuehler
cha...@steinkuehler.net

Re: Borosilicate Glass source? D-tek 7/20/13 9:29 PM
Granite tile sounds like a great idea! I'd really like to hear how that works. I have a tile saw too, so this might be a good option for me as well.
Thermal conductivity looks better than window glass and pyrex, and it looks like it is pretty tolerant to thermal stress. Some people use granite as a pizza stone. Plus, there are lots of patterns to choose from.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? wolfmanjm 7/20/13 9:33 PM
I buy 12"x12" mirrored tile from home depot, you get 6 for about $10.

Then I got a circle glass cutter from china for about $10.

I cut my own 250mm glass circles, and they work great.
The mirrored tile I got seems even flatter than the boro I had, and so far has not broken when heated to 60°C.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Mackle - Columbus 7/20/13 11:06 PM
On Sunday, July 21, 2013 12:29:07 AM UTC-4, D-tek wrote:
...Some people use granite as a pizza stone. ...

My tired brain just involuntarily filed away the following item for later contemplation: "TODO: 3 mm or 1.75 mm for mozzarella?"

I think I've hit my limit for forum reading for tonight.

Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Longhorn Jeff 7/21/13 6:22 AM
I was at Michaels earlier today to get some bins for screws and found 177mm/7in round mirrors for ~$2.50. Fits well with current Kossel BOM. So if y'all are still looking, that may be a spot to check. I picked up two, but now I'm thinking I should have grabbed a couple more
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Steven Machado 7/21/13 6:36 AM
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? John Silvia 7/21/13 6:44 AM
I tried granite tiles.  The good news is that it works. 

My thought was that I could remove the tile with the part and put a new tile in to start printing a new part while the first one cools. The problem is that it takes forever to heat up.  Preheating the tile would work but then you need an oven and have to handle hot granite tiles.  I went back to glass mirror tiles.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Charles Steinkuehler 7/21/13 7:19 AM
On 7/21/2013 8:44 AM, John Silvia wrote:
> I tried granite tiles.  The good news is that it works.
>
> My thought was that I could remove the tile with the part and put a
> new tile in to start printing a new part while the first one cools.
> The problem is that it takes forever to heat up.  Preheating the tile
> would work but then you need an oven and have to handle hot granite
> tiles.  I went back to glass mirror tiles.

Thanks!  Glad to know it works!

In addition to "cheaping out" on the boro glass and using granite, I'm
planning on going low-tech with the heater as well.  I've got a "hot
plate" and solid-state relay on the way, total cost is under $24 (add a
bit of something else to get free shipping from Amazon!):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006A2ZTS/ref=oh_details_o00_s03_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009AQNOK8/ref=oh_details_o00_s01_i03?ie=UTF8&psc=1

If the 750W heater doesn't warm up fast enough, there are 1100-1500 Watt
versions.  But I expect to have to add a diode or dimmer to reduce the
power output a bit and make it easier to hold temperature, so I got the
lowest power coil heater I could find.

I typically print PLA, and haven't generally had to wait for the bed to
cool to remove parts, so I'm not too worried about the thermal mass.

--
Charles Steinkuehler
cha...@steinkuehler.net

Re: Borosilicate Glass source? JohnD 7/21/13 7:46 AM
Aquanet #3 on a cold bed or Elmers Purple Washable School Glue -  both work a treat.  I've always been loath to throw A/C at my printers, but with a non-moving bed, I might would think about it.

Let me know how it works out for you - you using one of those Chinese SSR temperature control modules?
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Charles Steinkuehler 7/21/13 8:33 AM
On 7/21/2013 9:46 AM, JohnD wrote:
> Aquanet #3 on a cold bed or Elmers Purple Washable School Glue -  both work
> a treat.  I've always been loath to throw A/C at my printers, but with a
> non-moving bed, I might would think about it.
>
> Let me know how it works out for you - you using one of those Chinese SSR
> temperature control modules?

I plan on just using a solid-state-relay and cycle power on and off
based on the thermistor reading, just like with a DC heater and FET (I
literally just hook what would be the DC bed output to the SSR).

I'll see how big the temperature swings are with the slow "PWM" rate
available using the SSR, and switch to something fancier if I have to.

--
Charles Steinkuehler
cha...@steinkuehler.net

Re: Borosilicate Glass source? repro...@hotmail.com 12/20/14 8:05 AM


On Tuesday, 9 October 2012 05:03:50 UTC+11, heyarn wrote:
Hi All,

Does anyone know where I can buy the Borosilicate glass for the heat bed (8.5 in x 8.5 in)? :) Is it correct to assume that regular glass will crack with the heat?

Thanks!!!

HGi Folks,

I stumbled upon this thread researching the cutting of boro glass. 
Can't say I have any experience in your field of 3d printing BUT I can advise what I've seen, common as dirt, boro glass.   I don't know why some of you folks hadn't realised it yet.

OK, the big tip,  I see lots of Borosilicate glass, round and rectangular, designed to be heated and withstand thermal and impact shock in the home. I see it real cheap any day of the week in a charity store... I have some in the kitchen at home. It's my preferred material to use in the kitchen because you can tell easily if it's clean to use.

Honestly folks... Pyrex bakeware is made from Borosilicate glass. I see large size Pyrex baking pans and round dishes with low rim height selling for no more than $5 around this part of the World.
Remember that 'Pyrex' is a trademark brand and that there are other makers of Pyrex like bakeware around.

Most Pyrex bakeware doesn't have fancy moulded outer base surface, and this glass can be sandblasted [we should say abrasive grit blast because only a fool would use sand] for a grip finish if thats needed.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Brad Hopper 12/20/14 10:25 AM
Pyrex stopped using boro quite some time ago and now uses tempered glass. You can find 9", 10" Norpro silicone cheesecake pans with a biro glass bottom if you like. I bought a kit from Ultibots and it has been nice but the noro chipped with a part cooling on it after just a couple if no this. Currently I prefer cheap mirrors from Michaels (art supplies) or IKEA.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Ryan Carlyle 12/20/14 12:39 PM
+1 Brad

Only OLD Pyrex is borosilicate. Any Pyrex from the last decade or so is tempered, and tempered class is NOT GOOD for 3d printing. It's less flat, and like car windows, will shatter into a billion pieces if you break it. Have fun cleaning hundreds of glass chunks out of every crevice in your 3d printer...

Soda glass -- typical picture glass -- works absolutely fine and is dirt cheap. You won't break it unless you drop it or very rapidly cool it. 

Boro glass is more robust and more expensive. 

You can also switch to G10 or G11 laminate at around 3mm thickness. It's dead flat, completely indestructable, and is a 1:1 replacement for glass with any adhesion surface you want to use. (Gluestick, hairspray, Kapton sheet, etc.)


On Saturday, December 20, 2014 12:25:55 PM UTC-6, Brad Hopper wrote:
Pyrex stopped using boro quite some time ago and now uses tempered glass. You can find 9", 10" Norpro silicone cheesecake pans with a biro glass bottom if you like. I bought a kit from Ultibots and it has been nice but the noro chipped with a part cooling on it after just a couple if no this. Currently I prefer cheap mirrors from Michaels (art supplies) or IKEA.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Brad Hopper 12/20/14 1:52 PM
I got some G11 for Hotbot but haven't yet gotten to printing with it. It's 1/8" I think but *very* flexible so I epoxied it to a sheet of plywwood while sandwiched between two heavy pieces of marble scrap. No way it would resist the bend forces of say Nylon without a backing of some sort. There are several G11 composites, this one is the adhesion recommended linen one. Maybe glass impregnated is stiffer. Hoping my G11 is still somewhat flat but no idea.
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Ryan Carlyle 12/20/14 2:26 PM
Nooooo, you don't want the cloth versions. Those are crap. You need fiberglass G10. 
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Brad Hopper 12/20/14 5:22 PM
Well Taulman recommended the linen one and even sent me a sample. But what they sent was 1/2" so very stiff. Couldn't afford 1/2" in the size I wanted...
Re: Borosilicate Glass source? Ryan Carlyle 12/20/14 7:12 PM
Garolite/Tufnol (linen phenolic laminate) is popular for nylon. Mainly because it's easy to cut -- then you clamp it to a flat surface for stiffness. Whereas fiberglass phenolic laminate is a 1:1 replacement for glass because it's stiff, flat, indestuctable, and has good cold-release performance.
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